My biggest bother of this game [Spoilers]

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Because in story terms it's hard to make it make sense given how fundamental he is in the game.
...for the current story sure...but for another one? After all V has the option to try to rid him/herself of Silverhand....it's not like he has to be there for some drama to happen...
 
...for the current story sure...but for another one?
The speculation is about whether you need to make one of the endings canon. Given that one ending essentially does not allow the story to continue, unless they make one of the other endings canon, the most obvious alternative option for DLC is to remain in the time period before the endings happen. If you remain in that time period, there is a Silverhand issue.
 
The speculation is about whether you need to make one of the endings canon. Given that one ending essentially does not allow the story to continue, unless they make one of the other endings canon, the most obvious alternative option for DLC is to remain in the time period before the endings happen. If you remain in that time period, there is a Silverhand issue.

Ah, I see where my misunderstanding comes from...yea I don't agree that there can't be expansion that continues our V's story:)

Edit: but even if the expansion can only be before the 'end', it can still work without Johny. For example it may be about the 6 months after the events of the origin stories. One way to not have him:)
 
Ah, I see where my misunderstanding comes from...yea I don't agree that there can't be expansion that continues our V's story:)
It's not that there can't be it's just that presumably they will need to write off at least one of the endings, which is probably what they'll do (I don't recall the precise nature of the "bad" ending in witcher 3 but I think the same situation was at least heavily implied; I'm personally aggrieved because I'm one of maybe ten people who think the "bad" ending in CP is actually the one that does most justice to the story and the characters!).
 
It's not that there can't be it's just that presumably they will need to write off at least one of the endings, which is probably what they'll do (I don't recall the precise nature of the "bad" ending in witcher 3 but I think the same situation was at least heavily implied; I'm personally aggrieved because I'm one of maybe ten people who think the "bad" ending in CP is actually the one that does most justice to the story and the characters!).

Yea they will have to go 'but what actually happened' with one of the endings....ugh no idea if this section of the forums allow spoilers:(
 
For a sequel, if they decide to continue focussing on V, I can see them canoning one ending. But not for a DLC/Expansion. It is still the same game that recognizes all those endings. I hope they focus them on the 6 months montage
 
It would be interesting if they leave V behind and create new merc main character with new supporting cast for story DLC. It would show that Night City is rly massive and there are many other interesting stories going on. We could hear abt what V did from the radio and TV. It is very risky and prob wont happen but that could be great.
 
It would be interesting if they leave V behind and create new merc main character with new supporting cast for story DLC. It would show that Night City is rly massive and there are many other interesting stories going on. We could hear abt what V did from the radio and TV. It is very risky and prob wont happen but that could be great.

That will be..... an 'ok' way for them to go for, but...I want my V! :)
 
It would be interesting if they leave V behind and create new merc main character with new supporting cast for story DLC. It would show that Night City is rly massive and there are many other interesting stories going on. We could hear abt what V did from the radio and TV. It is very risky and prob wont happen but that could be great.
Or they could just make a new game in NC. My V has unfinished business :)
 
For a sequel, if they decide to continue focussing on V, I can see them canoning one ending. But not for a DLC/Expansion. It is still the same game that recognizes all those endings. I hope they focus them on the 6 months montage
This would be even more difficult to make it coherent imho,how does it fit a maxed out V in that montage? + players will lose any romance/friendship(you didn't met anybody before). @Nunnek suggestion is what i think is more likely,use NC as the background for multiple "campaigns" more or less in the same timeframe
 
This would be even more difficult to make it coherent imho,how does it fit a maxed out V in that montage? + players will lose any romance/friendship(you didn't met anybody before). @Nunnek suggestion is what i think is more likely,use NC as the background for multiple "campaigns" more or less in the same timeframe
It would have to focus on a new character yes
 
This would be even more difficult to make it coherent imho,how does it fit a maxed out V in that montage? + players will lose any romance/friendship(you didn't met anybody before). @Nunnek suggestion is what i think is more likely,use NC as the background for multiple "campaigns" more or less in the same timeframe

Well they could stop the levels at 10 or something....and the base game (imo ) even have some choices for a bit more experienced V (you can pay Viktor 20k right away), but the way Dex's encounter is handled.... I probably shouldn't go into spoilers here, but it was for weak V....problem:)
But maybe if they don't allow you certain cyberware that will give you a big power boost, 2 of the 3 origins for V are in this stage discovering and learning how to live in Night City so it is not such a bad idea.

But yes new merc is the easiest option imo.
 
Well, I can imagine that all of this was already more or less thought and that they are not right now looking at a whiteboard saying "mmm, nope...". But the safest bet till proven otherwise, is that they are goind to receive some flak no matter what they do (I have ready a post yelling "fan service!!!" depending on what they do :)).
 
Well, I can imagine that all of this was already more or less thought and that they are not right now looking at a whiteboard saying "mmm, nope...". But the safest bet till proven otherwise, is that they are goind to receive some flak no matter what they do (I have ready a post yelling "fan service!!!" depending on what they do :)).
LOL. Yes, given the speed with which the w3 expansions came out I seriously doubt that any expansions weren't plotted out in advance.
 
The easiest path with expansions is IMO starting some new storyline before meeting with Hanako. The only problem with that is Keanu. They could record with him for DLC or just say that V takes blue pills so he is not in that story. It would be easy for them bec this way they dont have to force one canon ending on the player ( you know that many will whine if they dont pick their fav ending/romance combo etc.)
 
The easiest path with expansions is IMO starting some new storyline before meeting with Hanako. The only problem with that is Keanu. They could record with him for DLC or just say that V takes blue pills so he is not in that story. It would be easy for them bec this way they dont have to force one canon ending on the player ( you know that many will whine if they dont pick their fav ending/romance combo etc.)
I don't think that they would put so much effort to have all endings just to add something that overwrites them. At least I don't see any reason to do this.
 
The easiest path with expansions is IMO starting some new storyline before meeting with Hanako. The only problem with that is Keanu. They could record with him for DLC or just say that V takes blue pills so he is not in that story. It would be easy for them bec this way they dont have to force one canon ending on the player ( you know that many will whine if they dont pick their fav ending/romance combo etc.)

for me or they rewrite the story to put something in the middle, something about the 6 months that we have left or if it is later several starts to explain how they moved our mind to another body or that we somehow recovered our body at the hands of silverhand. If they give me a choice, I would do as in GiTS that the two souls form a new being.
 
Indeed they could but it wouldn't be very fun, just a cheap getout.

I don't think the game needs silverhand for dlc, especially post ending dlc. It would be weird if he didnt show up at all pre ending, if it has some significant plot points.
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I'll reiterate suspension of disbelief has nothing to do with the criticism.

I said I was questioning the entire foundation of the game narrative. This was meant to question the execution of that foundation. I could see how it could be confusing and perhaps it should have been worded better. A very small number of the reasons why were included right after that statement. Funnily enough, in the post where we got stuck on suspension of disbelief I specifically clarified what I was or was not criticizing.

To me the lead up to the Heist featured some cheesy dialogue, tried way too hard to drive home the themes it was attempting to explore and didn't offer enough contrast among the options presented in the flavor choices along the way. The end result is no matter what character you make it creates the sense you are supposed to agree with Jackie when he loses his mind over drink names, a blaze of glory, etc. You're supposed to say "yes sir" when Dex tells you to jump. We know with absolute certainty, based on hindsight, the job is supposed to go bad and V ends up completely screwed.

I'd point out that last one is different from those first two. That last one is an event occuring the player is involved with and, due to forces beyond their control, it goes badly. This would be those periods where the narrative must take command to progress itself. Those first two are hijacking the persona of the player character and saying "this is how your V thinks". That doesn't belong in a game with a player generated player character. Those moments, or choices, should have the player in the driver seat when they appear.

Now sure, you do have a "choice" when those events play out. Unfortunately there is almost zero contrast built into the options attached to those choices. Tell me, what the hell is the point of providing three options if they all functionally mean the same thing? At the very least meanings along similar lines. They couldn't at least build suitable contrast into those options and put that work on voice-overs, animations, etc. to functional use? As it was included it serves no purpose. It's wasted time and resources. This is what happens when you have to rush because your leadership is dysfunctional. Things slip through the cracks, get gutted or otherwise end up as a shadow of what they could be.

A more simple way to say this is the Heist going poorly is fine. The hijacking of the character persona is not. V accepting the job would have been far better if it were presented in a way where you could challenge what the game was trying to drive home. Present the themes. Don't force them upon the player. It's unnecessary to do so to get the point across. It's not the only example where this was done either.

The endings are probably a better example of the above. The decision you're presented plays the ambiguity card. The results omit choices the player should have been able to decide upon independently to drive home themes the game had already sufficiently covered well beforehand. It was an innappropriate place to incorporate any ambiguity if those themes were going to be incorporated as player world views and outlooks. It was arguably lame the way it coupled so many "choices" into a single decision.

I didn't say robbing Arasaka was dumb. I said the way it goes down is dumb. There is a difference. It was a little silly me to waltz right in there, no questions asked, when your fixer teleported out of nowhere with such swiftness it even manages to rival NCPD, drops a "let's retire" level job on V and Jackie specifically and the doll providing the BD footage asks you to fuck over that fixer. All of those elements could have easily been done any number of other ways without creating these type of "what the hell?" moments and preserving everything else.

We got even more what the hell moments because the conversation with Evelyn about cutting out Dex is pointless and goes nowhere. The shop talk with Dex about your cut is pointless and goes nowhere. The Maelstrom vs Militech part of the spider bot quest doesn't really maintain a respectable presence throughout the game. Adam Smasher gets hyped as a super cyborg villain all game and only has a single direct interaction with V. It goes down via him jumping out of a bush from nowhere and emotionally sabotaging the player. Clearly showing Smasher's teleportation rivals both NCPD and Dex.

Forgive me but you can feel this all went splendidly and is the pinnacle of epic RPG storytelling and execution. You're welcome to that opinion. I'd probably think you have low standards though.

See above.

There was no concrete, 100% confirmed evidence. There was a wealth of circumstantial evidence. At the very least there was a ton of information available suggesting the job was sketchy beyond belief and probably a bad idea. What didn't make the cut is the ability to select options to indicate your V recognized it.

you say its the minimum bar, to be great at interactive character developing writing, but to be honest I have never seen it be even as good as cp2077. Many go with a fairly fixed predefined charachter, of they just give you hero/villain options at specific junctures.
 
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Yes, some people may prefer that but it really is a choice unless you expect games to take 20 years to develop and to need 20-million copy sales to break even.

Some people prefer mediocre stories with more choice. Some people prefer very honed narratives with less choice.

And, in fact, I question whether games will *ever* be able to offer a genuinely polished narrative experience with truly massive amounts of choice for one simple reason: all the money in the world and all the time in the world will never change the fact that there aren't that many writers around at any given time who can write really sharp dialogue. There never will be. And there will be even fewer who want to spend three or four years of their lives focused on a single computer game when they could, for example, be writing for movies or TV.
I assume this is meant to say a game with a compelling narrative offering meaningful choices/consequences and branching is unrealistic. Let alone one using voice-overs, motion capture, etc. The reason I don't agree with this is because I've played a number of games incorporating both. None of them had garbage tier graphics either.

In fact, sections of CP provide both. The Pickup immediately comes to mind because the quest has meaningful choices/consequences and branching. As soon as I recognized it for what it was offering it was exciting. I thought this is a good quest. I sure hope the rest of the game plays out this way. Unfortunately the majority of the rest of the game didn't play out that way.

It's difficult to hold back disappointment when you see part of game done extremely well, and providing exactly what you were hoping, then see the rest fail to deliver the same level of quality. The fact this one section of content did so tells you it's possible. It places on full display the potential of the people putting it together. The rest of the content being as it is tells you they either didn't have the time or didn't care to build it up to the same standard.
 
But the solution to that is pretty simple, isn't it? Someone just has to create Skynet and have it duplicate itself in as many game copies as needed, giving it the game assets it needs to create and manipulate the world depending on player choices.
....oh and hope the AI doesn't destroy the world:D

As a general rule, I disallow "nukes" as a method of creating resolution for a narrative.

As a gamer, if there are nukes involved...ya I'm gonna use it!

I'm a filthy hypocrite and closet Skynet sympathizer.
 
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