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Even though I rarely see my V,
I still want to choose the head of my V, if she will have tattoos, piercing, no cyberwares or maybe even a big nose...
I still want to choose her clothes and not look like a garbage bag...
Just because you want something doesn't mean it has a place in the game.

A lot of people wanted Cyberpunk to have GTA-style sandboxing, are we going to start arguing that its absence is a flaw with Cyberpunk just because people wanted it?

Because its a character with asthetics to my design, as opposed to a character that looks like xyz, because thats how it was chosen to be.

This is neither a pro nor a con. If it doesnt mean anything for gameplay and narrative by itself, then having or not having a char creator also makes no difference. Btw, it still does have significance to me because I get to look at what I prefer, wether that is often or rarely is besides the point.

Pointless to you, not to everyone.

I agree with this bit, I also said specifically it enhances it.

The fact you also choose the one bodypart thats memable, still doesnt mean its objectively not so.

Again, you may find it pointless, and thats ok. Like I said previously not everyone feels the same way about that. But please do not state it as if a fact, because its inherently a subjective thing.

I don't find it pointless. I'm simply observing that character creation doesn't work in the creative mold of Cyberpunk as a narrative-driven action game, just as many other potential gameplay systems also wouldn't be a good fit. There are a lot of fun game mechanics out there that don't necessarily have a place in every game.

For character customization specifically, a customizable character isn't necessarily better or worse. Geralt is generally agreed to be an effective protagonist, and the Witcher series has been praised for both characterization and storytelling. It's a very popular game.

Finally, being able to customize your character in Cyberpunk may help you feel more of a connection to the protagonist only because they are more of a blank slate to begin with. This is opposed to, again, Geralt in the Witcher, who has a more defined personality and character that makes him more relatable from the outset.

I would argue that the narrative would be more effective if V had a more concrete background and personality, similar to the Witcher. Perhaps they could differentiated by the life path in terms of appearance and character traits (available dialogue options) which would provide some degree of player choice, but more in line with the style of the rest of the game.
 

"CHARACTER CREATION SHOULD'VE BEEN CUT/SHOULD BE CUT IN CYBERPUNK 2077"

Wholly disagree. It's my reason to believe the very first preset in character creation should be the V of 2018 demo.

If you want something else you can make your own V. Win win. Don't long for unnecessary restrictions. Let others who would like something different have their fun too.

It's called freedom.

Let people play the game like they want to, not how the devs want you to.
 
Just because you want something doesn't mean it has a place in the game.
Nope it's not because "I want it", if it's in game, it's because it have a place in the game :)
I'm just happy that CDPR think the same...

And to tell the truth, I can say the opposite... it's not because you think it's pointless that it shouldn't have a place in the game... In short, deaf dialogue :D
 
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And to tell the truth, I can say the opposite... it's not because you think it's pointless that it shouldn't have a place in the game... In short, deaf dialogue :D
I think I explained my position well and provided supporting examples.

Nope it's not because "I want it", if it's in game, it's because it have a place in the game
That doesn't logically follow. Developers can make mistakes, and CDPR has already made numerous ones with Cyberpunk.

You also initially justified your position with your desire to have character customization, so I sense goal-post moving.
 
You also initially justified your position with your desire to have character customization, so I sense goal-post moving.
Nope, unfortunately, the goal doesn't move at all :)
I'm happy that CDPR chose the First person view (For me, way better than TPS).
I'm happy that CDPR let us have the possibility to customize our Vs (For me, way better than "standard" V).

If CDPR have chose TPS or "standard" Vs, I would have been disappointed but I would have done with, without complaining... not really the choice, it's their game...
 
Nope, unfortunately, the goal doesn't move at all :)
I'm happy that CDPR chose the First person view (For me, way better than TPS).
I'm happy that CDPR let us have the possibility to customize our Vs (For me, way better than "standard" V).

If CDPR have chose TPS or "standard" Vs, I would have been disappointed but I would have done with, without complaining... not really the choice, it's their game...
There really isn't a discussion to be had here if you ground everything in your subjective preferences. Unless your goal is to just shut down any kind of critical discussion about the game, then mission accomplished I guess.
 
I am pleased I can customize my character. I like to RP. When I played an arasaka katana wielding soldier I wanted them to have a japanese look. (part of their background was that they were from japan and brought over, only to be betrayed by Abernethy) If 'v' were just given to me then I would not have been able to do that. The aesthetic side of a game is important to me above just game mechanics.

I played mass effect and find it OK but clunky,.. I'm not keen on third person tbh and well. I have no attachment to shepherd. I look back on the characters I create and I have an attachment to them more than pre-generated characters who have their own fun and challenges. (be it tabletop or computer game)

I doubt I would have had more than one playthrough if I was continually playing the same character
 
No thanks.

The main thing I dislike about The Witcher is Gerald himself. I'd like it a lot more if I could make my own character and do my own thing.

Besides, you can already play as the main looks CDPR uses for V. I already think the character creator doesn't go far enough. There should be more options and I do miss the table-top like background generation instead of picking between 3 backgrounds.
 
Character creation helps players connect more with their Vs, having Geralt def made some people feel a bit disconnected from the story and the game overall ( especially if you're not Male/White/Straight etc... )
I def want my V to look the way i envision her.
Yes. On Geralt's personality, given the number of often pretty gross "romance" scenes crammed into the game, that he wouldn't even touch a guy actually felt rather offensive. It wasn't about the character being straight, it was about quite how much kitsch softcore porn had made its way into the game for straight male teenagers that, honestly, looked like more time had been spent on it than it should have. Against that background, to give absolutely nothing to anyone else who'd had to sit through those scenes was quite insulting.
 

"CHARACTER CREATION SHOULD'VE BEEN CUT/SHOULD BE CUT IN CYBERPUNK 2077"

Wholly disagree. It's my reason to believe the very first preset in character creation should be the V of 2018 demo.

If you want something else you can make your own V. Win win. Don't long for unnecessary restrictions. Let others who would like something different have their fun too.

It's called freedom.

Let people play the game like they want to, not how the devs want you to.
Fair argument, but V really isn't our character at the end of the day. They have their own personality and background. I don't see how a character's appearance will make you relate more to the character just because they look like you.
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No thanks.

The main thing I dislike about The Witcher is Gerald himself. I'd like it a lot more if I could make my own character and do my own thing.

Besides, you can already play as the main looks CDPR uses for V. I already think the character creator doesn't go far enough. There should be more options and I do miss the table-top like background generation instead of picking between 3 backgrounds.
That's your own problem. Narrative driven RPGs are designed to have an entire cast of characters that actually play a role and have purpose. Sandbox RPGs are meant for the player to have complete control.
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I am pleased I can customize my character. I like to RP. When I played an arasaka katana wielding soldier I wanted them to have a japanese look. (part of their background was that they were from japan and brought over, only to be betrayed by Abernethy) If 'v' were just given to me then I would not have been able to do that. The aesthetic side of a game is important to me above just game mechanics.

I played mass effect and find it OK but clunky,.. I'm not keen on third person tbh and well. I have no attachment to shepherd. I look back on the characters I create and I have an attachment to them more than pre-generated characters who have their own fun and challenges. (be it tabletop or computer game)

I doubt I would have had more than one playthrough if I was continually playing the same character
Looks like you'd prefer a sandbox RPG. Cyberpunk is no where close to a sandbox RPG and it's clearly designed to have a fixed character.
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I like the possibility to customize my V, they could even expand the options. This is the first character in a SP game that I feel like mine character and I love it.
You should try out Fallout or Skyrim. Those are sandbox RPGs where you have complete control of the story. Cyberpunk is a narrative experience.
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The character of Johnny Silverhand serves multiple purposes, one that is-as a co-protagonist.
V is basically you, like a typical Bethesda game protagonist, a semi-blank slate, little backstory, customisable-both physically and character wise.

On the other hand Johnny is a 'concrete' protagonist. Fully developed background, solid character, etc.
Now since Johnny is only a co-protagonist, you can only mold him to a certain degree (by doing a few quests/managing your relationship him with him) unlike Geralt, whose character can differ to a much larger extent depending upon your choices.

So basically the game has the best of both worlds.
You aren't V though. They have their own personality and background, depending on what you choose. Characters in the game aren't speaking to you, they're speaking to V.
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It is a single player game, what I do in my game has zero impact on anyone else or the RPG element.

Geralt was a character with an ongoing story, "V" has no ongoing story, and unless CDPR miraculously find a "cure" V will not be in another game.

It makes no sense to limit what a player can do creatively in a game to their character. Having more choices will sell more copies.
Yet, V can be given an on going story. Simple.
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I would rather play as a character that I have created rather than a predefined protagonist. For me it makes it more personal and far more memorable, especially in Cyberpunk. On the surface sure it serves little to no purpose without a third person perspective or cut scenes or open world reflections but still feels more unique. I for one would have been far more disappointed if I had to play as a predefined V. Only my opinion though. I would have liked If we could have selected pre written backstories to make it even more unique. I think the character creation is a good move.
Don't see how you connect more to a protagonist, because they look like you. V already has their own personality and background.
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Since the promise was an RPG, customizing your character is a no-brainer. The options CAN be very silly as it is now (clicking random is a mistake), but they CAN have very good options. Create your own standard V, someone else can create a clown. I could agree to some extent a clown-face V isn't very believable when the voice actor has this very mean voice (works in that universe, works in your position as a player), but otherwise I'd rather not see customization be stripped away... because that would be the final nail in the coffin for Cyberpunk NOT being an RPG.

This customization mechanic has potential to be expanded on. This aspect could be saved in a two-prong attack - First implement appearance changing after initial creation and second - Just expand the amount of options you have for hairstyles, eyes, beards, noses... dongs? :ok:
Don't see how taking away character customization would kill a game. I did say that V should have interchangeable haircuts and beards.
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There really isn't a discussion to be had here if you ground everything in your subjective preferences. Unless your goal is to just shut down any kind of critical discussion about the game, then mission accomplished I guess.
Finally, someone who speaks with a brain. Character creation doesn't belong in a narrative driven RPG. Especially since it's first person only.
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I am going to get crap for this but oh well :D here we go; I dont get what (male)V and you guys see in Panam.

I disagree with character creation being pointless btw. It creates a connection between myself and the character I created. The game being first person doesnt change that. In fact, a third person playing style(especially forced), where I do see the character makes me less connected to that character. I also feel less connected when I cant choose their appearance. The goal is to make your story(the game you play) and V's story fall together and the character creation helps do that.
In fact, if you dont care about aesthetics even when you are in first person 'because it doesnt matter anyways' you are saying that you are already less connected to the character.

The problem isnt the character creation is useless because of the story or the way it plays out. Its because the developers cut a large percentage of player agency. The game was originally supposed to have 3 story branches and then they cut it to one with just Johnny.
Here's the problem with that: You aren't V. V has their own personality and background. Character creation doesn't add anything to the experience. First person still doesn't add to character creation. This argument makes no sense to me. What's the point in creating a character when you aren't going to see them 99.9% during the story.
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I've basically read the sentence "character creation should be cut", and I was like: NOPE.

Its one of the things that makes me get only more intrinsic with the character I created for V. I'm normally also less a fan of an 'established' sort of character.
And CP77 works just fine also with the character creation in the game.
The narrative is not deminished by that.
Cyberpunk isn't a sandbox RPG. It's meant to be narrative driven. Sounds like you'd enjoy sandbox RPGs more than narrative.
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Yes. On Geralt's personality, given the number of often pretty gross "romance" scenes crammed into the game, that he wouldn't even touch a guy actually felt rather offensive. It wasn't about the character being straight, it was about quite how much kitsch softcore porn had made its way into the game for straight male teenagers that, honestly, looked like more time had been spent on it than it should have. Against that background, to give absolutely nothing to anyone else who'd had to sit through those scenes was quite insulting.
Because Geralt is like that in the books. I admit, he's a bit of a man... you know what... but that's what adds to his character. He has preferences and reasons for the choices he makes. If you find it offensive, then maybe it just ain't for you. I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just saying that not all characters or people are going to appeal to us. Like Geralt doesn't appeal to you as a character and that's okay.
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No. Personally I like the choice a character creator gives you, especially in a RPG. If a RPG forces you to play as a pre-made character, I'm far less likely to buy it - especially if there isn't even a choice between male/female. A pre-made character removes the personalisation of creating a character to resemble yourself.

That said... it does seem a bit pointless having a CC when you never get to see you character in-game because it's first person. In the case of CP77, you only see you character in a couple of video sequences, the mirror (which is blurry as hell), the inventory and photo mode.

They really should have, at the very least, had third person as an switchable option in the game.
Sounds like sandbox RPGs would appeal to you more. Cyberpunk isn't sandbox, it's narrative.
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I do not totally agree :(
I think that's cool, because those who want to play with a "standard" V can do that and those who want to customize their V can too.
In addition, you only have to consult the "Share your V" thread. A lot of players have their preferences (me, my Vs are all a bit alike), but all players have really differents V. That's pretty cool, I love it :)
I don't see how it would change much not being able to customize our V. V remains V, regardless of his eyes, teeth, nose or whatever.
But that's only my opinion.

And for ME, I don't know why, but I always choose predefined Shepard (fem). But in Cyberpunk is it's the opposite :)
I did say that you should be able to change V's hair and beard. I'm not taking away options. I'm giving my reasons for a fixed character, because it's more interesting rather than the poor argument of "self-implementation".
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That V fanart looks lame, too. Yet another slicked back undercut. Wow, so original.
That's your opinion. Sounds like you just have bad taste.
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Character creation helps players connect more with their Vs, having Geralt def made some people feel a bit disconnected from the story and the game overall ( especially if you're not Male/White/Straight etc... )
I def want my V to look the way i envision her.
Well V still isn't your character. How do you feel more attachment to a character when the look like you and act like you. Even though V wouldn't act anything like the way you're describing.
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Oh, wow, these are pretty good points. I haven't thought about it from such a perspective too much :)

About the customization, I would have loved to see more lifepath stories.
Basically, at the beginning of the game, V stops being who he/she had been for the entire life and so suddenly becomes a neutral merc, leaving any signs of his/her past completely behind and blank.
I'm actually making a thread about improving the lifepaths. Instead of each lifepath having Vincent/Valerie, I plan on having the other two lifepaths have their own independent characters. Stay tuned!
 
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I am enjoying roleplaying in CP2077 thanks and treating it as a sandbox rpg with a number of scenarios I can pick and choose from. I've been tabletop roleplaying for longer than I care to remember and am about to run some shadowrun for some players. I get there are many who do not think of the game as a RPG but that is not my problem
 
I did say that you should be able to change V's hair and beard. I'm not taking away options. I'm giving my reasons for a fixed character, because it's more interesting rather than the poor argument of "self-implementation".
Like I said, it depend on the game (and probably the "standard look" and character). For example, in ME, I always take "standard" Shepard (fem).
But in Cyberpunk, even with first person view, I really prefer my custom V (more than the standard model). No "smart" reason for that, I simply prefer it (And I'm glad CDPR let us doing that).

A bit like at the start of a playthrough where I have to wear a headband (only epic one is available at the start). And honestly, with my haircut, it looks like a cauliflower... In first person, I never see it, but I know that I look like a trash. As soon as I can change, I do it immediately.
 
What I'm confused about is how appearance customization increases investment in the protagonist. V doesn't behave any differently if they have a particular hairstyle or piercing or an uncircumcised dong. The emotional core of the game is the narrative, and the appearance customization is just as much a sidecar to that experience as a GTA-style sandbox open world would be. Player appearance is largely detached from the narrative, precisely because so many constraints are required in order for V to fulfill their role in that narrative.

Even considering a game like Skyrim, which isn't even a particularly stellar example of an RPG, appearance is still more relevant because of the variety of player choice. You can be an assassin, a thief, a mage, and appearance customization allows the player to reinforce their roleplay in any of these scenarios. Furthermore, the Dragonborn is largely a blank slate, which places appearance customization as a much more potent outlet for player personality and expression.

In Cyberpunk, a lot of these choices are already made for the player. The performances given by the PC voice actors supply a lot of the personality expressed by V as a character. The investment that went into crafting these performances, and how they play off of the drama of the narrative, suggests that this is where CDPR intended for the player to form their connection with V. This is further reinforced by their decision to omit third person, even in cutscenes. I would imagine that they would have gone even further with making V a strong character if full appearance customization wasn't present, as such a decision would have leaned further into the already narrative-focused bent of the game.

I think a lot of players who currently prefer appearance customization would be surprised how much they would connect with a predefined V, particularly if CDPR had put the effort devoted to the appearance system into making the PC look as good as possible. The things that really make V relatable as a character is their plight and their response to it. I believe that allowing these elements to take center stage, without the distraction of a malleable self-insert, would make the story that much more powerful.

Like I said, it depend on the game (and probably the "standard look" and character). For example, in ME, I always take "standard" Shepard (fem).
But in Cyberpunk, even with first person view, I really prefer my custom V (more than the standard model). No "smart" reason for that, I simply prefer it (And I'm glad CDPR let us doing that).

A bit like at the start of a playthrough where I have to wear a headband (only epic one is available at the start). And honestly, with my haircut, it looks like a cauliflower... In first person, I never see it, but I know that I look like a trash. As soon as I can change, I do it immediately.
So should Cyberpunk be more like GTA, a sandboxing open-world game? Being able to go to do more things in the open world would clearly form more of a connection between the player and V, don't you think?
 
GTA is awful, not my thing at all, it's good for people who like that but I see little to no roleplay in it

this is from the second time I tried to playit
 

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So should Cyberpunk be more like GTA, a sandboxing open-world game? Being able to go to do more things in the open world would clearly form more of a connection between the player and V, don't you think?
No particular reason, no thinking more than "I prefer like that" :)
It wouldn't stop me from playing if I couldn't (like TW3), but if I must choose, I like it better with a custom character.

For Fallout4/Skyrim*, I have play both more than 1K hrs, I can customize my character, so I also like that.

For GTAV, I have played it multiple times, but I'm not a huge fan... play as Trevor is always a ordeal for me. I didn't enjoy more playing golf or tennis, taking a plane ride or having fun with the police. "Cops&Thiefs", it was only good with my friends in my room on Vice City or San Andreas (with "couple" of beers).

*Oblivion, Fallout3, Fallout New Vegas and I can add Outer Worlds (because Obsidian).

Edit : It's not really to have a "connexion" with my character (or for RP it), because honestly, at the start I tell myself that I'm going to play the "Bad girl - Burn the world", but as soon as I have to choose to kill Brick or not, I save him...
 
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Here's the problem with that: You aren't V. V has their own personality and background. Character creation doesn't add anything to the experience. First person still doesn't add to character creation. This argument makes no sense to me. What's the point in creating a character when you aren't going to see them 99.9% during the story.
I have no idea what to say to this, as you didnt really say anything that changes my original point. character creation and first person allow the player experience and V's story to fall together. I think you didnt understand what I said.
And the same 'you cant see the character so it doesnt matter' argument, it might not matter to you, it does to me. But it does reveal one thing; I think the problem is that V is distant in your mind and you keep her/him there(and this proposal would increase the distance). While I try to get close and see things through V's eyes.
I actually want more customization options(based on what has been leaked, there will be in the future) so that the above connection only gets stronger.

I will never understand when people say they want less options or customization for a player character(in games like this).
 
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