something like this..i am sure there are some guys we would like to see fighting against each other...
and the other forum members are standing around...
something like this..i am sure there are some guys we would like to see fighting against each other...
and the other forum members are standing around...
Those examples would work for unarmed and melee fights. I was thinking about some sort of sealed room, like a small warehouse, for gun fights. Obviously Trauma Team would be on hand.
I don't feel any need for competitive multiplayer at all, but I wouldn't mind it being in the game. The coolest way that would work i think would be like Red Dead Redemption if anyone here have played it online. Also coop could work similarly.
"multiplayer features" though doesn't mean actual multiplayer. It could as well be some pointless leaderboard or some just as pointless social network feature.
Do I want CDPR to invest time in competitive multiplayer? No!
Coop? Well I don't need it, but if it pleases the rest of you fine. But in that case I'd like to see it being coop campaign from beggining to end. Both take part of conversations etc.
Do I want CDPR to invest time in competitive multiplayer? No!
Coop? Well I don't need it, but if it pleases the rest of you fine. But in that case I'd like to see it being coop campaign from beggining to end. Both take part of conversations etc.
We know that 'features' is pretty damn vague and it could be a lot of things. many of us are 'hoping' for co-op. Leaderboards would be pointless. How would you define 'leading', given that there could be any number of personal goals for players? Wealth? Kills? Hacks? Value of property owned? Value of property destroyed? Amount of Cyber implanted without going over the edge?
I don't see how a co-op campaign, start to finish, would work. What happens if one player quits or disconnects? Most of us are hoping for at least 100 hours of gameplay, so thats a really long time to be playing co-op.
A secondary storyline, or long side quests, could be a good source of co-op material. I would keep the main storyline personal to the individual player though.
How would you see the multiplayer characters? Would they be the same as in single-player or would you create new character?
Also on a side note my friends have cooped lots of full games (Halos, Borderlands, NHL xx) and I plan on playing Original Sin with friend. So if you can't invest time on rpg coop I don't see why you'd do it, just go play something quicker then. And I'd only coop with friend that I can contact outside the game also.
Yeah leaderboards are bonkers. I just mentioned it because Witcher 2.
I would personally prefer to complete at least a portion of the single player, perhaps to a good branching point. From there, I would open up the multiplayer capabilities for said character and even allow the creation of new characters that can go straight into multiplayer.
When I said I couldn't see how it would work, I meant effectively. I am sure it could work, but it would be cumbersome. Also, what happens if people don't want that elvel of commitment? What if people want 'pick up' games? What if people aren't able to play at a set time with their friends regularly? With the 'pick up' style, (similar to Borderlands,) you can still meet up and play through the missions with the same friends, but you could also hook up with random players as and when.
Everybody wins.
I don't continue posting about MMO, it is you guys! I just told I want an MMO. Then you started to say why I can't get it bla bla.. I just answered to your posts. But yeah, multiplayer matter should be in eg. like this thread.
You can't even search with the keyword MMO, because it is too short!
But, I don't care how many years they have been programming the SP game. I want an MMO. It is their problem, if they didn't want to spend resources on MMO aspect from the start.
Well, I talked something about that. For example it was fun to run dungeons in Wow with random people with dungeon finder tool. I was so good that it didn't matter if there were couple under performers in the team. It was fun to make the dungeon runs successful against odds. Sure some people were causing trouble, but those matters resolved and in general random parties were more successful than parties from a guild. Any guild I belonged to didn't run together much anything, the pool of people were so small in a single guild. You were better off by just joining a random group with "Looking for group"-tool from the whole server pool and got action with a team.
Then harder dungeons gave harder challenge. I rose the ladders and got into better and better teams. Wow ruined the ladder system a bit, because you can advance also if you skip dungeons. But then there are raids which are bigger dungeons and they are more of a challenge. I didn't like too hard raids though.
It is nice to see people around and talk with them instead of that you select choices from a dialog with an NPC.
On the other hand, in PlanetSide 2 there are guilds that have quite constant action. You can join any open squad. I usually join a squad from the best guild in the server. And the squad leaders talk in a voice channel, so you get information what to do next. They put up targets where the squad should go fighting. And there are platoons and platoon leaders. You can be a normal soldier or become a squad leader, platoon leader, and or guild master. Soldiers can be of many sorts, like heavy assault, sniper, engineer, etc.
I don't generally like PvP (player vs player) in MMOs. You could think that PvE (player vs environment) is kind of single player game. But it isn't, because you can team up with other people and see them around doing things. In PlanetSide 2 there is actually only PvP, but it doesn't matter, because the game is so fluid and good. You die a lot, but you get soon back into the game. At first I didn't get a single kill, because I was newb and stood in the fire. Since then I have managed to get better and taken couple of enemies, which feels quite heroic. I don't try to get as good a kill/death ratio as possible, but I have done so much trial/error that I have become better. Still the tug of war -nature of the game (there is not much of a story, you just fight all day) makes it not so good after some time.
MMOs should have some stories too. In Eve there is a lot of depth, but even there the content is more like player created. I liked Eve as the pace of game is slower - unless you get into busy places and / or do PvP. But I hope there would be more content.
When I played Wow, I wished there were strategic elements in the game. For example I could get and defend land. The land could be depicted with a hexagon map that has big pristine 3D-pictures of the land types. You could have forest lands, mountain lands, etc. Then you could go there and do some "dungeons" as you clear the land of monsters with a party. Then you get to build a house, tower, castle, dungeon etc, and see your land area grow. You could get bonuses from these lands to your normal game play. There could also be player held events like tournaments in the lands. You wouldn't necessarily have to have actual tower or castle maps, a picture of a tower would be good at first. But no, you don't get any of this in Wow.
Then Cyberpunk.... sounds nice, the world offers so much potential and stuff, stories, development possibilities, you could get a garage, or be nomad, or what ever. But of course it is not an MMO! Blah. Sounds so old! We had single player games before internet! Single player games offer the same content for everyone. You have the stories and maybe couple of ways to play it through. But that is it.
In an MMO the possibilities are rather endless. Who gets to rule which suburban area? Who gets to rule the deserts? Imagine, the desert gangs would specialize in technologies that allow them to habit the desert. Then they get up few tanks and roll into the suburban area to fight. Or citizens go to the desert to some mission. There could be bases, vehicles, cybernetics, hackers, all kinds of things - and players could organize themselves and use what they get. You don't get to organize so much in a SP game. Organizing is part of the fun, namely the role Leader. You could still play as a solo in an MMO, but you could still be part of the outcomes that happen in the virtual world. An MMO is a virtual world, SP is more like just a game. No matter how good the story of a SP game is, it is not the same.
Playing with other people is fun, I get that. It's also often not-fun. Many of us play computer games because they are simpler than real life, cleaner and with less consequences. Real people in the mix changes that dynamic.
There is also a freedom to single-player not found in MMOs in group play - specifically the freedom to screw around, screw up or do pointless things for fun. The freedom, in other words, to just do what you want.
Nearly all the MMO examples you cite have agendas, scores, progression and competition. That is one kind of fun, but it's not always the kind of fun craved in a game.
Most MMOs out there are quite tedious. The word, "grinding" to describe repetitive actions in order to acheive an end, is an MMO term. Also farming. Much of the endless play content you describe is still fantasy - no MMO has successfully achieved it. Given budgets and time scale, it is unlikely it will be achieved any time before AI shows up to generate the circumstances of these admittedly interesting multi-player environments you describe.
I, too, would love to see a fun, engrossing, exciting MMO again. The years have taught me they are much, much rarer than a fun, engrossing exciting single-player game. CDPR is good at SP games. No one is good at building the MMOs we hope for. WoW was a very pretty treadmill with high-school quality plotslines and character development and it was the best of the bunch.
I'm afraid the MMO you hope for isn't going to come out for years or decades. CP 2077 will certainly not be it. I'm just hoping for some fun C
p multiplayer, sniping boosters from the edge of the Combat Zone before running for cover.
There is also a freedom to single-player not found in MMOs in group play - specifically the freedom to screw around, screw up or do pointless things for fun. The freedom, in other words, to just do what you want.
Nearly all the MMO examples you cite have agendas, scores, progression and competition. That is one kind of fun, but it's not always the kind of fun craved in a game.
Most MMOs out there are quite tedious. The word, "grinding" to describe repetitive actions in order to acheive an end, is an MMO term. Also farming. Much of the endless play content you describe is still fantasy - no MMO has successfully achieved it. Given budgets and time scale, it is unlikely it will be achieved any time before AI shows up to generate the circumstances of these admittedly interesting multi-player environments you describe.
I, too, would love to see a fun, engrossing, exciting MMO again. The years have taught me they are much, much rarer than a fun, engrossing exciting single-player game. CDPR is good at SP games. No one is good at building the MMOs we hope for. WoW was a very pretty treadmill with high-school quality plotslines and character development and it was the best of the bunch.
I'm afraid the MMO you hope for isn't going to come out for years or decades. CP 2077 will certainly not be it. I'm just hoping for some fun C
p multiplayer, sniping boosters from the edge of the Combat Zone before running for cover.Go the double post!
But seriously, no. no no no.
Look at the kind of game they are trying to make.
Think.
Think more.
Don't stop thinking now, just because it hurts (it hurts because it's working!).
Now apologize and walk away.
But seriously, no. no no no.
Look at the kind of game they are trying to make.
Think.
Think more.
Don't stop thinking now, just because it hurts (it hurts because it's working!).
Now apologize and walk away.
I don't think that "wanting to play MMO games" is something that someone needs to apologise for
But yes, Designer5, Sard's right. If your personal interest is in MMO, then CP77 is probably not the game you're looking for.
But yes, Designer5, Sard's right. If your personal interest is in MMO, then CP77 is probably not the game you're looking for.
Two things:
1.) That Nirvana rendition Sardine posted really is weirdly good.
2.) I hate how quickly MMOs are rendered worthless. So many times I'll be looking for user reviews for something I have a passing interest in, only to discover that it's an MMO filled with reviews going, "Don't buy this, because everyone moved on and the online community is dead."
There's something really sad about how quickly MMOs (outside of the few "main" ones) die, especially when weighed against single-player games from the 80s and 90s that still work perfectly.
1.) That Nirvana rendition Sardine posted really is weirdly good.
2.) I hate how quickly MMOs are rendered worthless. So many times I'll be looking for user reviews for something I have a passing interest in, only to discover that it's an MMO filled with reviews going, "Don't buy this, because everyone moved on and the online community is dead."
There's something really sad about how quickly MMOs (outside of the few "main" ones) die, especially when weighed against single-player games from the 80s and 90s that still work perfectly.
It is sad - but rarely inexplicable.
I've played quite a few now, ever since WoW got me started. Lengthy discussion with my guildies, ( a crew of misanthropes as bad or worse than I), and we've realised a few things:
End game really, really matters and only Blizzard nailed it.
It's foolish to try to beat WoW but it's also the standard anything WoW-like is held to. Doomed!
Developers really don't seem to understand what their community wants in a consistent manner. I don't mean the forums and I don't mean what the community says, either.
it only takes one really glaring flaw to turn people off an MMO. Gameplay, limited world, quest grinding, poor PvP - any of those is terminal.
EVE is an exception to almost all of this.
Multiplayer is a real challenge to do right, in the sense people come back and play,play and play again. Simple is often best and can equally often be dull. Challenging.
Isn't that rendition great? Shit like that justifies the internet stupidities we must so often wade through. Like mud.
I've played quite a few now, ever since WoW got me started. Lengthy discussion with my guildies, ( a crew of misanthropes as bad or worse than I), and we've realised a few things:
End game really, really matters and only Blizzard nailed it.
It's foolish to try to beat WoW but it's also the standard anything WoW-like is held to. Doomed!
Developers really don't seem to understand what their community wants in a consistent manner. I don't mean the forums and I don't mean what the community says, either.
it only takes one really glaring flaw to turn people off an MMO. Gameplay, limited world, quest grinding, poor PvP - any of those is terminal.
EVE is an exception to almost all of this.
Multiplayer is a real challenge to do right, in the sense people come back and play,play and play again. Simple is often best and can equally often be dull. Challenging.
Isn't that rendition great? Shit like that justifies the internet stupidities we must so often wade through. Like mud.
I don't think that "wanting to play MMO games" is something that someone needs to apologise for
But yes, Designer5, Sard's right. If your personal interest is in MMO, then CP77 is probably not the game you're looking for.
Wasn't suggesting they apologise for liking MMO, that's their right. Wanting this to be an MMO, well, there's no excuse
@Designer5
Much of what you are asking for by specifying your desire for 2077 to become an MMO can be provided through a combination of Single Player and Multiplayer, without the need to go as far as it being an MMO:
Limitless Content:
I am yet to find an MMO that actually has limitless content. The vast majority of the content in MMO's is bland and repetative, you end up going to the same locations and doing the same things, maybe with different people. As Sard pointed out, this usually takes the form of grinding, (raids... yay... zzzzz.... oooh, I just need 200 goblin heads... how often do they spawn again?)
I can see a lot of conent being made available from the modding community, making their own missions, gear, clothing, locations, vehicles, weapons and even NPC's with sound packs that can provide a hell of a lot of new content. All of this can be done without even multiplayer. You can actually follow a deep and driven story that can branch in a multitude of directions. That is not really possible in an MMO, because everyone is playing the same story, (Hello rairoad ,my old friend!)
Territory Control/Property Ownership
In MMO's Territory Control is always linked to PvP. It also ends up being about who has a larger/better faction base in a given timezone. There are lots og games that work on this already, do we really need another one? (Oh, and I wouldn't bother refering to PS2 as it is an FPS, not an RPG.)
However, in a Single Player game you can still take territory and own property, but you wont get screwed over while your asleep.
Social Interaction
Ok, Single Player games provide no social interaction at all. But there will be Multiplayer elements in 2077, (though they have yet to be identified.) I suggested having "communal area's" similar to the camps in Guild Wars. I think certain Bars and Clubs would be ideal for this. Have some of them act as black/grey markets where players can sell their loot or services while others act as meeting places where you can 'rent a room' to host an invitation only group. From these groups you could then form teams to go out and do missions co-operatively. Or how about dueling for money/loot or getting into pit fights?
This can easily solve any issues people have with a lack of social interaction.
The Exception to the Rule
EVE Online breaks all the rules when it comes to MMO's. It is in a class of it's own. But then again, it also has a lot of rules that are all it's own. Ganking, Scamming and all sorts of other 'anti-social' behaviour are positively encouraged while other games would seek to prevent them. Also, the story - while rich, unique and intriguing - is barely important to the game and is largely ignored by the playerbase. This is because the player created content far out performs the actual content. What most people are interested in from expansions are the new toys, ship/module rebalances and maybe new locations to fuck everyone else over in.
The player driven economy is by far the most amazing feature of the entire game. My main characters net worth is about 30 - 40 billion isk, (though I haven't even bothered logging in for at least 4 months, so that should be more due to the battleship rebalancing...) damn I loved being an industrialist...
But overall, the storytelling side of the game sucks balls. The best way to actually get into the story is by reading the novels, (which are very well written.) I reccomend them to anyone and everyone.
I am all for a Cyberpunk 2020/2077 based MMO, but not at the expense of what CDPR have planned.
I see your 'Smells like Teen Spirit' and I raise you a 'Du Hast':
...and a "Prodigy Mix-Medley!"
Much of what you are asking for by specifying your desire for 2077 to become an MMO can be provided through a combination of Single Player and Multiplayer, without the need to go as far as it being an MMO:
Limitless Content:
I am yet to find an MMO that actually has limitless content. The vast majority of the content in MMO's is bland and repetative, you end up going to the same locations and doing the same things, maybe with different people. As Sard pointed out, this usually takes the form of grinding, (raids... yay... zzzzz.... oooh, I just need 200 goblin heads... how often do they spawn again?)
I can see a lot of conent being made available from the modding community, making their own missions, gear, clothing, locations, vehicles, weapons and even NPC's with sound packs that can provide a hell of a lot of new content. All of this can be done without even multiplayer. You can actually follow a deep and driven story that can branch in a multitude of directions. That is not really possible in an MMO, because everyone is playing the same story, (Hello rairoad ,my old friend!)
Territory Control/Property Ownership
In MMO's Territory Control is always linked to PvP. It also ends up being about who has a larger/better faction base in a given timezone. There are lots og games that work on this already, do we really need another one? (Oh, and I wouldn't bother refering to PS2 as it is an FPS, not an RPG.)
However, in a Single Player game you can still take territory and own property, but you wont get screwed over while your asleep.
Social Interaction
Ok, Single Player games provide no social interaction at all. But there will be Multiplayer elements in 2077, (though they have yet to be identified.) I suggested having "communal area's" similar to the camps in Guild Wars. I think certain Bars and Clubs would be ideal for this. Have some of them act as black/grey markets where players can sell their loot or services while others act as meeting places where you can 'rent a room' to host an invitation only group. From these groups you could then form teams to go out and do missions co-operatively. Or how about dueling for money/loot or getting into pit fights?
This can easily solve any issues people have with a lack of social interaction.
The Exception to the Rule
EVE Online breaks all the rules when it comes to MMO's. It is in a class of it's own. But then again, it also has a lot of rules that are all it's own. Ganking, Scamming and all sorts of other 'anti-social' behaviour are positively encouraged while other games would seek to prevent them. Also, the story - while rich, unique and intriguing - is barely important to the game and is largely ignored by the playerbase. This is because the player created content far out performs the actual content. What most people are interested in from expansions are the new toys, ship/module rebalances and maybe new locations to fuck everyone else over in.
The player driven economy is by far the most amazing feature of the entire game. My main characters net worth is about 30 - 40 billion isk, (though I haven't even bothered logging in for at least 4 months, so that should be more due to the battleship rebalancing...) damn I loved being an industrialist...
But overall, the storytelling side of the game sucks balls. The best way to actually get into the story is by reading the novels, (which are very well written.) I reccomend them to anyone and everyone.
I am all for a Cyberpunk 2020/2077 based MMO, but not at the expense of what CDPR have planned.
I see your 'Smells like Teen Spirit' and I raise you a 'Du Hast':
...and a "Prodigy Mix-Medley!"
I saw Prodigy in concert once, and that choir is better at performing Prodigy songs than Prodigy is.
Also, I like everything Chris posted under "Social Interaction." Not really very familiar with online multiplayer as a whole, but the thought of forming a team in a bar and then literally stabbing my new friends in the back (which I totally want to be possible; I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread somewhere that turning against friendlies for potentially greater rewards would be awesome) makes me happy. Hopefully something like that is possible, because I totally want to play with all of you.
That didn't come out right.
Also, I like everything Chris posted under "Social Interaction." Not really very familiar with online multiplayer as a whole, but the thought of forming a team in a bar and then literally stabbing my new friends in the back (which I totally want to be possible; I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread somewhere that turning against friendlies for potentially greater rewards would be awesome) makes me happy. Hopefully something like that is possible, because I totally want to play with all of you.
That didn't come out right.