Watch Dogs as an influence

[Mikedudeh]

Watch Dogs as an influence

I know there are already a few great threads on netrunning but none quite this route and I feel its growing increasingly more relevant. We all know Watch Dogs and Cyberpunk 2077 are two big upcoming games. Obviously there is a lot that is different but they both have at least one thing in common... Hacking.

Watch Dogs is a big game, and basically everything is hackable, it plays a massive role in game and is basically just damn cool. Hacking/netrunning is a very Cyberpunk concept so I can't help but feel that CDPR might feel like Watch Dogs is stepping on their toes a bit. Obviously CDPR has seen this game and I'm curious what inspiration it gave, if any, maybe they have something better already and don't give a shit. Or maybe it sparked a competitive passion to deliver the most kick ass netrunning system ever. What do you like about the hacking in WD? Do you want to see similar takes in CP? Or do you think we should stick to the cyberconsoles and net and anything else is untrue to the original cyberpunk? We know CDPR is fast-forwarding the canon, so I don't think it's to hard to imagine wireless netrunning of some kind. I think it could be very cool to hack an enemy's smart gun link and have him pick off his allies. What are your thoughts?

 

[schiff]

There are many hacking games out there, if devs are going to allow some influence from different stuff it won't be from a ubisoft game. Unless they really care about trends.

 

[Sydanyo]

If I'm not mistaken, "hacking" in Watch Dogs is no more than aiming your crosshair to a camera or an ATM or something similar, and pushing a button. That's not hacking. That's nothing like hacking, and that's certainly nothing like netrunning in Cyberpunk 2020. Even Uplink did hacking better than Watch Dogs. Although it is a hacking game, but it's simple enough to be basically a browser game.

Besides that, Watch Dogs is just another GTA.

I sure as hell hope RED don't take any influences from Watch Dogs.

 

[animalfather]

I dont want Cyberpunk to be a GTA clone like watch dogs. Have a open city but make the city more interesting quality over quantity, also i want the camera to be more zoomed in if that makes any sense...hard to explain it.

 

[Deadbolt_Don]

CDPR prolly has something clever up their sleeves. I'm not too worried. In my opinion they don't need to go overboard with netrunning anyway.

Hacking is pretty poorly represented when it comes to videogames in general. Even hardcore hacking simulation games like Uplink are kinda unrealistic in many respects. There is a very large real world aspect to hacking that I don't think has really been explored very well. Skills like social engineering and such are just as important as computer skills when it comes to real black hats.

"Hacking" is also a lot simpler than people think it is. Most normal folk think hackers are wizards, which is why they are so poorly defended so often.

Hell, there's plenty of material out there for HACKER: the RPG, to totally work.

 

[schiff]

Hacking is pretty poorly represented when it comes to videogames in general. There is a very large real world aspect to hacking that I don't think has really been explored very well.

Yeah, that's because it doesn't add anything to the shooter and stealth genres. It's like the counterpart of magic along with tech in sci fi settings. On the other hand it can be argued the hacking stuff can help even the newest players through the level to the point of dealing with ambient puzzles.

 

[maelcom]

Netrunners is the role i'm the more curious to see how it will be handled, thought, i bet it'll be wireless, as there's already some cyber-consoles working through the wireless mobile phone network in 2020, so it'll probably works throught wifi/bluetooth, stuff like that.

I hope you'll can still "plug you in", the old-school way.

The funny part is that you'll probably even be able to finish some mission without getting out of your home, just hacking throught the server to obtain the information you need, etc...
It has a lot of potential.

 

[animalfather]

Shadow Run Returns had a hacking minigame in it, it sucked, it was basically combat in cyberspace, i hope this is not the case here.

 

[Sardukhar]

Well, to be fair, Cyberpunk PnP hacking, beyond a skill roll for simple stuff, is combat in cyberspace. Combat, stealth or cleverness. It's a real world analogy after all.

I'm never sure what people want from hacking minigames. An actual hack? That's boring - a software agent runs combinations and port scans. You don't like cybercombat? Do you want word puzzles? Some kind of pathing/puzzle game a la Deus Ex? Lots of people hated that, too.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

The net in 2020 was most likely heavily influenced by Tron.

Your 'Avatar' traversed the net via a virtual environment, (which is basically a 'spherical grid' very similar to the earth,) and you traveled smaller environments, known as Data Fortresses. These Data Fortresses were found on ythe grid in the same respective places as their physical location in the actual world. They could appear as just about anything; from tropical paradises or stately homes to oppressive castles or massive towers. Tyhe limit was only really set by the resources and skills available to the programmers.

Your avatar, and those representing other people, (and programs,) could also take just about any form, from simple 2D shapes up to super-realistic 3D creations. They too were only limited by their creators abilities.

Hacking wasn't 'exclusive' to netrunners, but they were the best at it. Much better than average guys. Hacking was basically a runners avatar sneaking into a Data Fortress, elluding the detection programs and defeating the other programs, (like ICE which could disconnect or disable a netrunner, or 'black' ICE which was both illegal and lethal,) defending the Data Fortress. Once at their goal, be it a cache of files or control software for a device in the real world, the runner would interact with their target avatar and get out of dodge before they were detected and or traced.

All of this occured through the neural interface of the runner 'chipping in'. They would be unaware of anything in the real world without special equipment, (like cameras and biomonitors,) to provide them with the relevant information.


Basically, think 'The Matrix'.

 

[Garrison72]

Watch Dogs is eons away from the noir-ish, rock and roll spirit of Cyberpunk. In tone, they have nothing in common. The hacking in Watch Dogs looks like nothing more than a story related excuse to allow the player to wreak havok, a la GTA. Which is fine, for that game. I'm sure the RED's know about Ubisoft's project but I highly doubt there will be any influence.

 

[animalfather]

Well, to be fair, Cyberpunk PnP hacking, beyond a skill roll for simple stuff, is combat in cyberspace. Combat, stealth or cleverness. It's a real world analogy after all.

I'm never sure what people want from hacking minigames. An actual hack? That's boring - a software agent runs combinations and port scans. You don't like cybercombat? Do you want word puzzles? Some kind of pathing/puzzle game a la Deus Ex? Lots of people hated that, too.

a mix of kiddie scripting and puzzles

 

[Sydanyo]

If I can't fly through cyberspace and take out ICE left and right while I'm netrunning then I have to admit I'll be a bit disappointed. It's a single player game after all; netrunning doesn't have to be "fast" or simultaneous to the actual action. I know in the PnP it's a bitch to have one netrunner, and while he plays, the rest of the group has to wait.

Not the case here. So take advantage of it.

Hell, I'd be over the moon if this is what the cyberspace in Cyberpunk 2077 looked like:

 

[quartermaim]

They could incorporate it as a min-game and test the waters that way.

If people love it then they can create a spin-off game.

Netrunning will be as hard to implement in this game as it was in the PnP game. Realworld and Netspace are vastly different. Perhaps add on some Netrunning NPCs.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

I think that simulating real hacking would be fairly boring.

Uplink wasn't that great of a game.

I am all for a cyberspace just like System Shock. I thought the hacking mini-game was good in SS2 as well.

I agree that soft skills should be emphasized.

 

[thewarsend]

Social engineering is the way to go my friends.. Best way to do business... Trick them into giving you the information you want then use it on cyberspace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_(security)

Jokes aside, i would like to see a Futurama kind of cyberspace.

With hacking minigames like the original Shadowrun game had..

 

[animalfather]

If hacking = fighting/shooting in cyberspace then it would be a massive fail snorefeast. i rather then just have puzzle solving that resembles running scripts. Deus Ex had a very simple hacking minigame which was not bad. something like that but more complex like chess something that makes you think.

 

[Garrison72]

Minigames...ugh.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I just thought of an interesting analogy. Combat in the net, (the 2020 net that is,) was actually closer to collectable card game combat than it was to System Shocks interpretation.

The runner couldn't really do anything without programs. They are pretty vulnerable to be fair. I would want that element kept in, at the very least.

So, back to the programs that make said runners so badass. They all worked in fairly unique ways. I'm sure there was one decryption program that was basically a well spoken chap who did the '20 questions' bit while another disassembled the code lock rather than decipher it.

I think this element has potential.

If every program worked differently in 2020, even if they achieved the same goal, then maybe in 2077 that could be replicated by 'minigame' style activities. However, each program should have its own one. But that should not be the only option, straight up combat could be an option instead of people don't like minigames, (or perhaps using automated programs to achieve the goal.)

Moat of all, I would want to see the ability for players and runners to create their own programs. That way the player can create their own tools that work the way they want them to and thus we find the best balance.

 

[Mikedudeh]

Well this thread is a lot more one sided than I expected! I know Watch Dogs has very little in common with Cyberpunk, and I know about the Tron-like net of 2020. I was curious if an additional "local hacking" mechanic would be cool alongside (not instead of) the traditional cyberspace net.

If you don't want anything to do with the Watch Dogs style hacking then how should the game handle hacking electronics that aren't linked to a network? Like implants, doors, utilities, ect? Should these things be excluded? You can't really netrun in the middle of a firefight or dangerous zone can you? I'd like to real time hack my surroundings strategically to my advantage in a fight without avataring up and leaving my body in danger. Simply put: by 2077 everything everywhere will operate electronically, do we need to search the walls for an in/out jack and make sure our body is safe in order to take advantage of that?

And yes I love everyone's idea of the net. I don't want this to be replaced. I like the system shock approach, it's closest to GITS which Is how I always imagine the net. I think it should aesthetically be split into public and private locations, public being Tron like with a floor you can walk on (with a fly mode akin to minecraft and garysmod if you choose) and decorated rooms with eclectic looking people (other avatars and programs), all in bright colors or something vastly different from the real world. These are chat rooms and legal places to roam and explore on the net.

The private areas should look a lot more bare bones like system shocks version and you don't walk you can just float/use fly mode. These areas are not meant to be assessed publicly so they lack a fancy "user outerface", contain the ICE, and are setup in a confusing four dimensional maze (meaning there are several Portal-like holes you can fly through that lead to a completely separate room/maze [the lost woods + cyber + crack]) that represents the filling system of a computer. The ice could be represented as anything from walls you can't touch to turrets to pac man things to humanoid avatars to puzzles.