The Missed Opportunities in the Story thread

[CTPhipps]

Yep.

It's one of THOSE threads but we have a few ground rules to start. I think there were a lot of missing story opportunities in the game and the game could have been stronger if elements had been followed up on that weren't.

Go wild.

It's all for fun after all.

Here's mine:

1. Dex gets away

It was a mistake to have Goro shoot Dex in the seconds after he betrays you. Dex should have dumped you in the middle of nowhere and Goro picks you up. However, you have the option of eventually hunting Dex dowm and getting revenge for his betrayal of you. You can also have Johnny and company point out that its a questionable use of your time.

2. Adam Smasher killing Jackie

I think this is an obvious one that should have been done. At the end of the car ride, it should have been Adam Smasher who shot Jackie and is the guy responsible for his death. It would have made it more personal between you two.

3. A conversation with Yorinobu

A big Mr. House style screen conversation I think. Basically, let Yorinobu explain why he's set you up for the blame for his father's death and what he plans to do. It's an opportunity to talk about the Heist, the Emperor, Arasaka, Evelyn, and more.

4. Consequences for Netwatch/Voodoo Boys

At some point later in the game, Netwatch will send agents after you for helping the Voodoo Boys kill their people or the Voodoo Boys will kill you. If you betrayed both, it could end up in a hilarious Mexican standoff where everyone os shooting everyone.

5. T-Bug is alive

You get to find them in Mikoshi, a prisoner of Arasaka, or some other business. Much like Alt Cunningham, you can try to rescue them or mercy kill them, or deal with the fact they might now be brainwashed to serve Arasaka.

6. Saving Evelyn

While it's one of the better tragic moments of the game, I think it could have been a cool use of the money in game with the option of paying 20K Eddies or however much to buy a Trauma Plan for her that gets her brain flushed of PTSD and her abuses. It would allow her to be a character in the game afterward.

Especially if you find out she planned to betray you like Dex.

7. Cyberpsycho Plot goes somewhere

I think Regina should have published a huge News article that revealed the truth of Cyberpsyschosis if you managed to save all the Cyberpsychos or at least a majority of them. They're the evidence that the condition is nonexistent or at least widely misunderstood.

8. Meredith Stout favor in the Nomad Ending

You can have the Militech troops stand down if you did her a favor as she's happy to let you utterly trash Arasaka in the Nomad attack in the final mission. It would make your earlier actions feel more important, though you might also have to convince her.

 

[Ryan_Ikerd]

Like in your first item the ability to hunt down Dex and his bodyguard. If not Dex then just the bodyguard would okay. It always just annoys me that the lackey contributes so much to you getting shot and gets to walk away.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

3. A conversation with Yorinobu

A big Mr. House style screen conversation I think. Basically, let Yorinobu explain why he's set you up for the blame for his father's death and what he plans to do. It's an opportunity to talk about the Heist, the Emperor, Arasaka, Evelyn, and more.

So why Yorinobu would like to talk to you... even explain to you his plans... You are nobody, a trully insignificant thing. Even when you help Hanako & Saburo in Evil Ending, you're still nobody (Goro's words...).
To make an analogy, why would Napoleon I or Louis XIV want to talk to a poor peasant ? Seriously, It's something totally unimaginable for them. If Saburo was "nicknamed" the emperor, it is not for nothing.

4. Consequences for Netwatch/Voodoo Boys

At some point later in the game, Netwatch will send agents after you for helping the Voodoo Boys kill their people or the Voodoo Boys will kill you. If you betrayed both, it could end up in a hilarious Mexican standoff where everyone os shooting everyone.

After or before "I walk the line" ?
Because after, all netwatch agents are toast or Voodoo Boys are toast by Alt.

5. T-Bug is alive

You get to find them in Mikoshi, a prisoner of Arasaka, or some other business. Much like Alt Cunningham, you can try to rescue them or mercy kill them, or deal with the fact they might now be brainwashed to serve Arasaka.

Don't know, she dies for signifying two things in my opinion.
The Heist goes really bad.
Don't joke with Arasaka, they use the Soulkiller on all netrunner who want hack them.

6. Saving Evelyn

While it's one of the better tragic moments of the game, I think it could have been a cool use of the money in game with the option of paying 20K Eddies or however much to buy a Trauma Plan for her that gets her brain flushed of PTSD and her abuses. It would allow her to be a character in the game afterward.

Especially if you find out she planned to betray you like Dex.

Not agree at all... If Evy is alive, Judy stay with her, possibly leave Night City with Evy and more important, leave Night City without my V. So no, absolutely not !!! Totally impossible for me

But for Dex, T-Bug and Evy (also Jackie), V is the last miraculous survivor of the disaster named "The Heist"... So for me, that they all dies make sense
Not so sure for the rest (Meredith in particular), but nothing too serious

Edit :
After a little reflexion, we could say that I don't agree with most of those points (except about Cyberpsychos)
But whatever, that's just my opinion, nothing important

 

[CTPhipps]

So why Yorinobu would like to talk to you... even explain to you his plans... You are nobody, a trully insignificant thing. Even when you help Hanako & Saburo in Evil Ending, you're still nobody (Goro's words...).
To make an analogy, why would Napoleon I or Louis XIV want to talk to a poor peasant ? Seriously, It's something totally unimaginable for them. If Saburo was "nicknamed" the emperor, it is not for nothing.

After or before "I walk the line" ?
Because after, all netwatch agents are toast or Voodoo Boys are toast by Alt.

Don't know, she dies for signifying two things in my opinion.
The Heist goes really bad.
Don't joke with Arasaka, they use the Soulkiller on all netrunner who want hack them.

Not agree at all... If Evy is alive, Judy stay with her, possibly leave Night City with Evy and more important, leave Night City without my V. So no, absolutely not !!! Totally impossible for me

But for Dex, T-Bug and Evy (also Jackie), V is the last miraculous survivor of the disaster named "The Heist"... So for me, that they all dies make sense
Not so sure for the rest (Meredith in particular), but nothing too serious

Edit :
After a little reflexion, we could say that I don't agree with most of those points (except about Cyberpsychos)
But whatever, that's just my opinion, nothing important

Yeah, we definitely do disagree.

For example: Yorinobu might want to talk to the person that has the massively important immortality chip in their head.

And who helped turn his girlfriend against him.

And who he looks weak for the fact that he can't kill.

To use your analogy, King Louis might want to talk to the person who he blames for murdering his father and who stole the crown jewels who has left a wake of dead musketeers in their path.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Yeah, we definitely do disagree.

For example: Yorinobu might want to talk to the person that has the massively important immortality chip in their head.

And who helped turn his girlfriend against him.

And who he looks weak for the fact that he can't kill.

To use your analogy, King Louis might want to talk to the person who he blames for murdering his father and who stole the crown jewels who has left a wake of dead musketeers in their path.

Important for Saburo, not for Yorinobu. He wanted to sell the Relic to Netwatch. The only thing he could want about V, is V must disappear forever (or die, at choice).
Evy is not Yorinobu girlfriend at all... Evy is a doll...To stay correct, it's just "buisness". The son of the most powerful man in the world, having a doll as a girlfriend... Sorry, but that's not possible.

I think you don't really see the "absolute monarchy" point of view (not the same as the english actual version). The king is "the king" by the will of god. Everybody are above his majestuous person (he have all the powers, religion/law/executives). He has the right of life and death over all subjects of the kingdom. Basically he can kill whoever he wants without being accountable to anyone.
He will never, never speak to a low class guy, that's totally impossible. At best he will send someone to talk/torture you for have the infos that he want

 

[Rawls]

(1) I definitely think the montage with Jackie right after the prologue would have been better as a playable story of coming up in Night City. Would have allowed for more side questing without "you're about to die - but first side quest help this rando-dude become a braindance stand in for Jesus" cognitive dissonance too before the Heist mission.

(2) Customizing apartment a more and ultimately inviting love interest back to the pad to hang out. I think symbolically letting the love interest into V's "world" could have been a nice small moment of intimacy that would have stood as serious contrast to all the glitz of the city.

(3) A more serious look at cyberpsychosis in a questline. Maybe even have V experience some ill-effects of the machine with the prerequist being that she has mods in every possible location. V then has a number of social situations where she comes off as super awkward, ultimately leading to a fight she doesn't really intend to start but does, and victor ends up taking her back to his place for treatment. Something like that would be cool ...

 

[CTPhipps]

Important for Saburo, not for Yorinobu. He wanted to sell the Relic to Netwatch. The only thing he could want about V, is V must disappear forever (or die, at choice).
Evy is not Yorinobu girlfriend at all... Evy is a doll...To stay correct, it's just "buisness". The son of the most powerful man in the world, having a doll as a girlfriend... Sorry, but that's not possible.

I think you don't really see the "absolute monarchy" point of view (not the same as the english actual version). The king is "the king" by the will of god. Everybody are above his majestuous person (he have all the powers, religion/law/executives). He has the right of life and death over all subjects of the kingdom. Basically he can kill whoever he wants without being accountable to anyone.
He will never, never speak to a low class guy, that's totally impossible. At best he will send someone to talk/torture you for have the infos that he want

Evie is the one who doesn't have a emotional connection to Yorinobu, not the reverse.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Evie is the one who doesn't have a emotional connection to Yorinobu, not the reverse.

Yorinobu never said or write somewhere, that he have any emotional link with Evy. I would say it's more like sailors, a girl in each port. Evy is the one from the Night City port.
Anyway, that's my point of view

But for the missed opportunities, I really don't know. The most obvious for me, seem to be intentional cutted opportunities for future contents rather than a real missed opportunities (like Peralez, Voodoos Boys/Pacifica, Romances,...)
But as Willowhugger and Rawls have said, more things related to cyberpsychosis would have been really cool. Like already having news of those we "saved" from Regina. But also Cyberpsychosis can have effects on V in case of too important modification such as a temporary cyberware malfunction (one in game day or remove it at ripperdoc)
- smart weapons primarily target civilians.
- the loss of x RAM units.
- double jump or mantis blade unusable.
- increased effects (burn, electrocution, poison)

In short, adding too much cyberwares can be positive and possibly negative.

 

[CTPhipps]

Yorinobu never said or write somewhere, that he have any emotional link with Evy. I would say it's more like sailors, a girl in each port. Evy is the one from the Night City port.
Anyway, that's my point of view

But for the missed opportunities, I really don't know. The most obvious for me, seem to be intentional cutted opportunities for future contents rather than a real missed opportunities (like Peralez, Voodoos Boys/Pacifica, Romances,...)
But as Willowhugger and Rawls have said, more things related to cyberpsychosis would have been really cool. Like already having news of those we "saved" from Regina. But also Cyberpsychosis can have effects on V in case of too important modification such as a temporary cyberware malfunction (one in game day or remove it at ripperdoc)
- smart weapons primarily target civilians.
- the loss of x RAM units.
- double jump or mantis blade unusable.
- increased effects (burn, electrocution, poison)

In short, adding too much cyberwares can be positive and possibly negative.

Frankly, I think that really removes one of Yorinobu's most interesting character traits. That he has such an isolated life that he's fallen in love with a Doll and left himself utterly exposed to her.

Because the alternative to being emotionally compromised by her is that he's just incredibly fucking stupid about his security.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Frankly, I think that really removes one of Yorinobu's most interesting character traits. That he has such an isolated life that he's fallen in love with a Doll and left himself utterly exposed to her.

Because the alternative to being emotionally compromised by her is that he's just incredibly fucking stupid about his security.

Yep, maybe you're right
But Yorinobu have Smasher for his security, it's not "nothing". Or he's just a little bit too "naive" thinking a simple "doll" couldn't do that kind of "stupidity" and certainly not against him (for quote him to Evy : "you, you want to impose me something, to me").
A little bit like the Voodoo Boys when Mom Brigitte said to her buddy about Evy during the second BD at Judy apartment: "No, she wouldn't dare to do that".

 

[lyin321]

I would say Yorinobu is more arrogant than naive....but that is an assumption on my part so...

Anyway I really like the idea of us inviting our LI in our apartment or maybe driving them somewhere and seeing their reactions would be very interesting. But I think this is more for future expansions, as the story as it is currently doesn't seem to allow that.

...oh and even with Dex dead, why can't we hunt down the bodyguard? That is somewhat frustrating
....tho a scenario where Dex lives and we hunt him down 'you thought you can kill/betray me mf!?' would be amusing....

 

[CTPhipps]

Honestly, the lack of development on Yorionobu's part is one of the reasons why I wish the player could interact with them. Yorinobu seems to actually have lucked out into becoming head of Arasaka. His plan to bring down his father's company was to team with Netwatch. Murdering his dad and getting accepted by the Board (because the Board is INSANE) is something that Hanako indicates is something he never expected. Far from an evil mastermind.

Also, Adam Smasher doesn't work for him but his father until the death of said father.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Honestly, the lack of development on Yorionobu's part is one of the reasons why I wish the player could interact with them. Yorinobu seems to actually have lucked out into becoming head of Arasaka. His plan to bring down his father's company was to team with Netwatch. Murdering his dad and getting accepted by the Board (because the Board is INSANE) is something that Hanako indicates is something he never expected. Far from an evil mastermind.

Also, Adam Smasher doesn't work for him but his father until the death of said father.

Yes, being discovered by Saburo for the Relic and kill him was not planned at all
So become the Emperor at the place of the emperor was an inesperate ending for Yorinobu, way better than he expected in my opinion. So no need Netwatch at all after that. As they say "the king is dead, long live the king".

For Smasher, when you work for Saburo, if Yorinobu says/ask something, it's the same that if it was Saburo, for the "employies"... A bit like V worked for Arasaka, but sadly, under orders of Jenkins in Corpo Lifepath. It was not Arasaka who asked to V to murder Abernathy, but V must do it anyway

And for me, the only interactions between Yorinobu and V could be :
- Either like between Johnny and Saburo. V is captured and interrogated. Yorinobu could confide some of his responses/plans/secrets, knowing that V won't make it out alive (so it doesn't matter what info he gives). And V could escape.
- Either as between V and Hanako. Yorinobu is captured and forced to confide in order to get out.
But a friendly and wanted conversation by Yorinobu seems very hard to imagine, for me at least. Knowing that Yorinobu kills his father at the beginning, that he kills his sister at the end and that he has already ordered to kill V and Goro. So I see nothing that could make him change his mind in the meantime.

 

[Didacgomez]

7. Cyberpsycho Plot goes somewhere

I think Regina should have published a huge News article that revealed the truth of Cyberpsyschosis if you managed to save all the Cyberpsychos or at least a majority of them. They're the evidence that the condition is nonexistent or at least widely misunderstood.

I'm not really sure it would be a big news at all, there is already some in-game shards pointing to that:

https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Can_cyberpsychosis_be_cured?

"Can cyberpsychosis be cured? Opinions on that question are divided."
"Once the therapy was concluded, no symptoms of cyberpsychosis were detected, as well as the patient's former personality"

https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/The_MaxTac_Way,_by_Mathias_Maddox

"What causes cyberpsychosis? (I'll let you know when I find out!) "

https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/The_Truth_about_Cyberpsychosis

"Scientists allegedly disagree about the causes of the disease, or even about whether it exists at all."

"Although cybernetic implants can directly affect our brain chemistry, they still serve only as a catalyst for the onset of the disease"

I see the whole Cyberpsycho sighting more as a way to show the player that what is called "cyberpsycho" its more complex than what the word suggests (it assumes that players read the shards and don´t go full auto texting Regina, which not sure everybody does).

Post automatically merged: Jul 17, 2021

3) A more serious look at cyberpsychosis in a questline. Maybe even have V experience some ill-effects of the machine with the prerequist being that she has mods in every possible location. V then has a number of social situations where she comes off as super awkward, ultimately leading to a fight she doesn't really intend to start but does, and victor ends up taking her back to his place for treatment. Something like that would be cool ...

Humanity and Empathy in the character creation is a missed opportunity by CDPR for me, then you don´t need to craft any questline but you can just change dialogs to less empathic/more agressive maybe even closing romance options.

 

[Rawls]

Humanity and Empathy in the character creation is a missed opportunity by CDPR for me, then you don´t need to craft any questline but you can just change dialogs to less empathic/more agressive maybe even closing romance options.

I agree, I even had a whole long concept on representing empathy through a "human perception" stat if they didn't to limit dialogue with humanity cost ... but this thread was about missed stories not mechanics. I'd take psychosis impacting a borged out V however I can get it.

 

[lyin321]

Humanity and Empathy in the character creation is a missed opportunity by CDPR for me, then you don´t need to craft any questline but you can just change dialogs to less empathic/more agressive maybe even closing romance options.

Mmm yea...bloodlines did it very well. But why in character creation? Wouldn't it be better/more natural if your decisions led you to the more aggressive dialogue?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Mmm yea...bloodlines did it very well. But why in character creation? Wouldn't it be better/more natural if your decisions led you to the more aggressive dialogue?

I will say maybe a nonsense, but I think that would be a "base" choice of your V.
You don't get empathy/humanity based on your actions/responses during the game (could be developped as things progress, but you have to choose it at the start), you either have it or not (well I think).

Edit :
I don't know if what I write make sense, so I'll provide a little example
In character creator you can choose between "Empathy - neutral - stone heart". It's more of a basic character trait. Wich have some unique dialogue options, quests resolutions,...
Now, we imagine you choose "empathy" in characer creator, but during the game you prefer the lethal method and brute force rather than diplomacy/conciliation (like you punch Fingers or choose to kill the maelstromers during the monk's quest), you can progressively switch to "neutral", then "stone heart".
But maybe I'm totally wrong and it's not that at all

 

[Maranares]

5. T-Bug is alive

You get to find them in Mikoshi, a prisoner of Arasaka, or some other business. Much like Alt Cunningham, you can try to rescue them or mercy kill them, or deal with the fact they might now be brainwashed to serve Arasaka.

Don't ask me why, but the fact that you never actually see her death makes me wonder. Her departure happens off screen, and there's that woman who mentions they found her body, but other than that...? She could have faked her death, and the found body could actually be of someone else.

Don't ask me why, but i have this feeling we'll hear of her again in the future, in the form of expansions or whatnot.

I do agree that Dex's death feels too cheap and anti-climatic. I mean, he shots at you, you wake up, he gets shot. It's like in some of Quentin Tarantino's movies, where every character's death happens in the blink of an eye. But then again, Dex's death happens so early that it's actually unexpected, so it surprised me and a lot of other players; and Cyberpunk's narrative doesn't always follow che classic "revenge/redemption" trope so abused in works of fiction (if we exclude Johnny's story, which is rather traditional), so i imagine this can be taken as a good thing.

 

[lyin321]

I will say maybe a nonsense, but I think that would be a "base" choice of your V.
You don't get empathy/humanity based on your actions/responses during the game (could be developped as things progress, but you have to choose it at the start), you either have it or not (well I think).

I guess....again bloodlines also did that, with everyone's favorite crazy vampire clan, but that game had a silent (in a way) protagonist, while V is voiced and.....too much?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Don't ask me why, but the fact that you never actually see her death makes me wonder. Her departure happens off screen, and there's that woman who mentions they found her body, but other than that...? She could have faked her death, and the found body could actually be of someone else.

Don't ask me why, but i have this feeling we'll hear of her again in the future, in the form of expansions or whatnot.

For me, in view of her cry, that's sound like really letal. Death by the Soulkiller... That could happen when you are connected to Arasaka network

I do agree that Dex's death feels too cheap and anti-climatic. I mean, he shots at you, you wake up, he gets shot. It's like in some of Quentin Tarantino's movies, where every character's death happens in the blink of an eye. But then again, Dex's death happens so early that it's actually unexpected, so it surprised me and a lot of other players; and Cyberpunk's narrative doesn't always follow che classic "revenge/redemption" trope so abused in works of fiction (if we exclude Johnny's story, which is rather traditional), so i imagine this can be taken as a good thing.

I agree, that's sound like : Nope, too late, you can't take revenge...
Many had to say to themselves "I'm going to destroy him for sure !"
And no, too late