What Cyberpunk 2077 "2013 version" might have look like in UE4/5

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GAME TITLE: VIGILANCE 2099
Website: https://www.vigilance2099.com/
YT Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUWOqf75PN9ap-MYOG6xkjA




It's SO FUNNY how a devs team of 3 can somehow managed to not "overpromised" while also achieved things not a AAA CDPR Dev team couldn't achieved LOL. Here are the overall details:
+ Inspired by Blade Runner & cancelled game "PREY 2"
+ Game actually have both FIRST PERSON & THIRD PERSON camera mode! Wow guys!! LOL
+ Game feature advanced parkour system
+ AV & Ground vehicles driving!
+ Decently sized open world. The city will be split into 3 distinct sections stacking on top one another. AN ACTUAL VERTICAL SLICES Mapping levels!

+ Shooting
+ Slight hand to hand combat (takedowns, counters)
+ Interrogations - NPC's and bounties

+ Hacking
+ Negotiation - Deals with bounties to accept alternate rewards to let them go


Of course it's still in a prototype stage & not an actual full released game version, but this team can properly visualized the 2013 teaser version that many people fell in love in the first place.
Don't get too hype too as plenty of scamware projects out there, but at least this is something. A Teeny tiny glimmer of hope for us Cyberpunk fans.

So... What do you guys think?? Will CDPR ever gonna achieved at least FPP/TPP camera mode & AV driving system in the future? Even though barely anything "really" improved in this past 7+ months? While the modding community did so much more trying to keep this game alive??
 
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Guest 3847602

Guest
So... What do you guys think?? Will CDPR ever gonna achieved at least FPP/TPP camera mode & AV driving system in the future?
In the sequel? Maybe. In this game? Nope, no chance.
TPP and player-controlled AVs is something they never worked on, never alluded to be in the game and was dismissed as many times as Ciri's cameo. CP2077 was not designed for either.
 
In the sequel? Maybe. In this game? Nope, no chance.
TPP and player-controlled AVs is something they never worked on, never alluded to be in the game and was dismissed as many times as Ciri's cameo. CP2077 was not designed for either.
The TPP mode was actually in the initial prototype version (search reddit or YT) until the whole thing being scrapped/massively changed into FPP focus only (2018 trailer version). All Witcher games are literally TPP games, so such system clearly implemented well before in RED engine. [...]
 

Guest 3847602

Guest
The TPP mode was actually in the initial prototype version (search reddit or YT) until the whole thing being scrapped/massively changed into FPP focus only (2018 trailer version).
TPP was a part of never-shown pre-2016 version, yes. Which has been scrapped in 2016, when TW3 team joined the skeleton crew that was working on CP2077 and development truly began.
All Witcher games are literally TPP games, so such system clearly implemented well before in RED engine.
So? Dialogue system in Cyberpunk and seamless, interactive cutscenes don't work the way they did in TW3 and Cyberpunk was designed to utilize 1st person perspective. TW3 was not. It's not the engine limitation, but design choice they were committed to from the start.
nor I would actually believe AV driving system is never a thing too.
Believe it or don't believe it, the fact remains that nobody tried to sell you the game with TPP and flyable AVs. :shrug:
 

Surma.

Forum regular
It looks impressive, but that's only if you don't look any deeper.

Creating flying cars is way easier than creating cars on the road with steering based of the grip on the floor, rotating car based on physics engine, suspension physics of coil springs etc. Having car just move forward with little care about gravity or collision physics is easy.

As shown by the early footage, and their earlier projects, it's easy to make 3rd person mode. In fact a single modder is able to create this in Cyberpunk as well.

If CDPR wanted they could easily add AV driving into the game with little ease, as there already is plenty of vehicles on the ground with all the details ready, and if the flying physics is basically "drive forward, ignore gravity" it's pretty freakin simple thing to animate as well.

Only things preventing from AV's working is most likely lack of collision physics implemented in some of the buildings, which would make it awkward to try land to.

So I'd have higher hopes CDPR fixing this game than some new indie studio somehow making better game from scratch.
 

Guest 3847602

Guest
Only things preventing from AV's working is most likely lack of collision physics implemented in some of the buildings, which would make it awkward to try land to.
Not only that. Mission objectives and enemy placement are designed around the idea of you approaching the building from the street level, with occasional shortcut in the form of a ladder or usage of legs cyberware.
Being able to simply park your AV on the roof of the building or a skyscraper and bypass most of the guards would destroy any semblance of balance.
 

Surma.

Forum regular
Not only that. Mission objectives and enemy placement are designed around the idea of you approaching the building from the street level, with occasional shortcut in the form of a ladder or usage of legs cyberware.
Being able to simply park your AV on the roof of the building or a skyscraper and bypass most of the guards would destroy any semblance of balance.
But would that really be a bad thing?

There's tank or two in GTA 2 as well and you were able to steal that from military base, roaming around the city with the cannon one shotting all cars. There were few missions which were basically to take down enemy gang members and you were completely invulnerable to their pistols.

Though majority of players likely just used the tanks to just take down random people in the street and fight the army.

Maybe CDPR could make the AV a one time thing that has healthbar and is able to be taken down by people in the roof which you're not supposed to gain access to. I don't think that is nearly as difficult to balance.

Maybe the AV would have only a fuel for lets say 30 minutes of flying, which would limit your ability to abuse it. Maybe there could be some fuel packages found in specific locations to extend this, and perhaps late-late-late game with maybe 3rd expansion have a base where you could fuel it automatically and fly off from there.


Just saying no to cool things because "hey it's convenient to not have them" isn't really a great way to develop things. This game could use a bit of freedom now that we're so much restricted on the street level.
 

Guest 3847602

Guest
But would that really be a bad thing?
Yes, it would be a bad thing.
Hitman 2 doesn't let you land or parachute on top of Hayamoto's castle. Challenge and fun comes from navigating your way through his defences.
Assassin's Creed 2 doesn't let you use the flying machine beyond one, scripted sequence.
Balance is important and having a tool which guarantees you the quickest, most obvious, risk-free approach is a bad thing.
Europa Universalis 4 is not an RPG, but its latest expansion is a perfect example of how unbalanced mechanics (pillage capital, concentrate development and monuments) can ruin the whole game. Of what happens when thinking and planning is no longer required.
Maybe CDPR could make the AV a one time thing that has healthbar and is able to be taken down by people in the roof which you're not supposed to gain access to. I don't think that is nearly as difficult to balance.
It wouldn't solve the problem - placing more enemies on the roof to prevent abuse of AV is only making the game worse for everyone who doesn't use AV.
Besides, even if you'd get shot down, all you'd have to do to get your AV back is to reload the game, so there's no real risk of permanently losing this tool.
 
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I dont understand opsesion with TPV, they mentioned that in some internal presentation prior to any major work on the game. They never mentioned it in any official presentation of the game, people knew that they are buying FPV game, it is obvious that cut scenes and dialogue are designed around FPV it is one thing that shouldnt be an issue
 
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Yes, it would be a bad thing.
Hitman 2 doesn't let you land or parachute onto Hayamoto's castle. Challenge and fun comes from navigating your way through his defences.
They do however in Hitman 3 first mission land you in the biggest building out there in Dubai and you're completely skipping all the defenses in ground floor.

So there definitely is some parts of the game where they completely allow you to skip the defenses.

"Oh but that's okay since it's designed" you'd say, right? Well that's my point as well. They could do similar missions for Cyberpunk where you're allowed to use AV to enter into specific rooftops and bypass the enemy, where in other missions such thing is not allowed or is not going to work because of the defenses.

In fact there's even invisibility cloaking in some of the AV's which could be used to do this in even the most crowded defenses.

Could the same AV be used to perhaps fly to the top of Konpeki Plaza? Perhaps. But there could be ways to deal with it. Have police spawn there investigating the crime, lock the doors, put missile defense system on it... anything pretty much.


Of course there needs to be some ways to make sure the thing isn't overly abusive, and there can definitely be ways to do that. If AV is approaching a secured facility, you could lock down the windows for example, forcing the player take a ground floor approach, where in sneaking into the facility the windows could remain open.
 
You talking about this kind of mod ?
I don't know, but it seem not very good to me (If I remember, the slide is hilarious...)
Yeah probably that one.

We have to remember that the graphics are created so that the head is not visible for first person view, so it's pretty amazing to even see someone figure out how to put a head on a body with mods without accessing the basic functions of the code.

Imagine what they could be doing with some of that ingenuity. Idle animations in 3rd person, head turning the way you're looking, body staying still until you go above 90 degrees, eyes focusing on quest objects etc.



For me, it seems they didn't have this on launch was to pretend they really cared for first person view, but I think it's mostly because they didn't really bother with the details in swapping heads back and forward as the player would kept switching with 1st and 3rd person views, and them having less work to do with face animations.

They could easily hire some small team to work on that, similar to what they've done with Cyberpunk multiplayer, and 2 years later announce the Completed Edition with 3rd person view.

If they really want to listen to the community and make better game, I think at least having option to go 3rd person outside of quest events would be very welcome change.

Everyone wants to see their characters in the world of Cyberpunk rather than having this camera with hands moving around, your sleeves being only indication of your clothes you wear.


I get why they wanted to go first person, as there are many games from Battlefields to Fallout 3 which were first person games, but at least there should be some options to see yourself properly, and not just the weak mirrors that currently exist in a select few spots.
 
Yeah probably that one.

We have to remember that the graphics are created so that the head is not visible for first person view, so it's pretty amazing to even see someone figure out how to put a head on a body with mods without accessing the basic functions of the code.

Imagine what they could be doing with some of that ingenuity. Idle animations in 3rd person, head turning the way you're looking, body staying still until you go above 90 degrees, eyes focusing on quest objects etc.



For me, it seems they didn't have this on launch was to pretend they really cared for first person view, but I think it's mostly because they didn't really bother with the details in swapping heads back and forward as the player would kept switching with 1st and 3rd person views, and them having less work to do with face animations.

They could easily hire some small team to work on that, similar to what they've done with Cyberpunk multiplayer, and 2 years later announce the Completed Edition with 3rd person view.

If they really want to listen to the community and make better game, I think at least having option to go 3rd person outside of quest events would be very welcome change.

Everyone wants to see their characters in the world of Cyberpunk rather than having this camera with hands moving around, your sleeves being only indication of your clothes you wear.


I get why they wanted to go first person, as there are many games from Battlefields to Fallout 3 which were first person games, but at least there should be some options to see yourself properly, and not just the weak mirrors that currently exist in a select few spots.
The only thing that matters to me on this point is that it's a CDPR choice that Cyberpunk would only be in first person. So why bother with an animation for a 3rd person view when you've decided it won't be there ?
Exactly like in other games where there is only first person view or only third person view...
Easy to do or not, they have not planned to add a third person view, even if players could ask for :(
(I don't see CDPR add a third person view at all, never... but that's my opinion. Exactly as Judy romance for Male V or Panam romance for female V, it will never happen officially).
 
I dont understand opsesion with TPW, they mentioned that in some internal presentation prior to any major work on the game. They never mentioned it in any official presentation of the game, people knew that they are buying FPW game, it is obvious that cut scenes and dialogue are designed around FPW, it is one thing that shouldnt be an issue

A lot of people weren't listening when new developments happened. As much as CDPR mislead people, there were also people who were making the game in their head versus actually listening and watching.

"You'll be able to be a corporate agent the entire game with a completely different story from the Street Rat!"
 
TPP was a part of never-shown pre-2016 version, yes. Which has been scrapped in 2016, when TW3 team joined the skeleton crew that was working on CP2077 and development truly began.

So? Dialogue system in Cyberpunk and seamless, interactive cutscenes don't work the way they did in TW3 and Cyberpunk was designed to utilize 1st person perspective. TW3 was not. It's not the engine limitation, but design choice they were committed to from the start.

Believe it or don't believe it, the fact remains that nobody tried to sell you the game with TPP and flyable AVs. :shrug:

I have never said dialog system being the limitation nor TPP having any effects to dialog scenes or any other cut scenes in the game. TPP mode could easily be an optional mode while exploring & combat only, in which give many more advantages & game experience. It's literally not something that would hinder anything that already exist permanently in this game. It's downright unreasonable & nonsensical to say TPP will do nothing & instead hinder the image of the game itself when IT IS LITERALLY the most expected thing from the 2013 concept version.

NO, I am certainly believe before 2018 demo, CDPR definitely claimed to have TPP mode & TPP cut scenes, then claimed to changed it with only TPP cutscenes. Then between 2019-2020, other devs said completely removed most of the TPP cutscenes because of "time & priorities." This is why TPP cutscenes only existed in epilogues/endings very briefly, in which I didn't expected it as it claimed no more TPP cutscenes in the game.

For AVs, it's what being expected by most fans since its inception. HENCE WHY I SAID the "CP2077 2013 VERSION." Let's not kid ourselves here that even the devs definitely also wanted AV driving system back then. Again, "limitation, time, & priorities."
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"Oh but that's okay since it's designed" you'd say, right? Well that's my point as well. They could do similar missions for Cyberpunk where you're allowed to use AV to enter into specific rooftops and bypass the enemy, where in other missions such thing is not allowed or is not going to work because of the defenses.

In fact there's even invisibility cloaking in some of the AV's which could be used to do this in even the most crowded defenses.

Could the same AV be used to perhaps fly to the top of Konpeki Plaza? Perhaps. But there could be ways to deal with it. Have police spawn there investigating the crime, lock the doors, put missile defense system on it... anything pretty much.
EXACTLY my point here!! So many people assumed that AV driving should be fully open to the whole map & sections of the game when there are plenty of game design options to make AV driving experience be available while also controllable in certain aspects. For examples:
+ making AV driving on certain sky tracks. Basically like airplane racing game stuffs where despite racing with a flying vehicles, player still need to race inside a track
+ making AV driving mostly available but can only be parked in certain places (just like you proposed).
+ making AV driving available on scripted sections of the game. It's basically a restricted one & not replayable in normal exploration.
+ making AV driving auto while have interesting combat gameplay elements. It's the most restricted one & such thing didn't even exist in this game. Hell, random car chasing system simply also nonexistent in this game too, only in certain section of missions. Only then very recently modders able to implement somewhat of a police car chasing system which I am surely recommended.

What we got instead were just 2 completely scripted "inside AV" sections while player on passenger seat, so it's basically just another dialog scenes. Fun fact here, a full nomad lifepath V (Nomad start & ending) never even experienced AV sections LOL
 
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Guest 3847602

Guest
I have never said dialog system being the limitation nor TPP having any effects to dialog scenes or any other cut scenes in the game. TPP mode could easily be an optional mode while exploring & combat only, in which give many more advantages & game experience. It's literally not something that would hinder anything that already exist permanently in this game. It's downright unreasonable & nonsensical to say TPP will do nothing & instead hinder the image of the game itself when IT IS LITERALLY the most expected thing from the 2013 concept version.

NO, I am certainly believe before 2018 demo, CDPR definitely claimed to have TPP mode & TPP cut scenes, then claimed to changed it with only TPP cutscenes. Then between 2019-2020, other devs said completely removed most of the TPP cutscenes because of "time & priorities." This is why TPP cutscenes only existed in epilogues/endings very briefly, in which I didn't expected it as it claimed no more TPP cutscenes in the game.
Footage of 2013 version was never shown publicly. It wasn't used in advertisement. It was stolen from them. And no, they never talked about TPP, they never gave any indication that players will be able to choose between 1st and 3rd person, only occasional 3rd person cutscenes were mentioned. It was later changed to 1st person cutscenes and this change wasn't a secret.
For AVs, it's what being expected by most fans since its inception. HENCE WHY I SAID the "CP2077 2013 VERSION." Let's not kid ourselves here that even the devs definitely also wanted AV driving system back then. Again, "limitation, time, & priorities."
What fans should expect is what CDPR officially announce and confirm, not what they imagine in their heads. What CDPR have been telling to fans since 2018 (when they finally started sharing information about the game) is: no controllable AVs.
 
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2013 version was never shown publicly. It wasn't used in advertisement. And no, they never talked about TPP, they never gave any indication that players will be able to choose between 1st and 3rd person, only occasional 3rd person cutscenes were mentioned. It was later changed to 1st person cutscenes and this change wasn't a secret.
Definitely not true. i genuinely believed & remembered the claims for TPP mode existed at least in 2013-2018 (early). This is why such article existed in 2018, mostly after the teaser demo released as confirmation. Even more so with the existence of prototype footage. I have never said the changes were a "secret" either, which is why I knew the approximate years of these claims were changed. If I was wrong about this & my memories all kind jumbled than I apologize in advance. I will own such mistakes.

Same thing with the AV situation. etc, etc.

OK, so it's pretty clear that you are so adamant on NOT NEEDING to add TPP mode & AV driving system, downright saying DON'T WANT IT. If CDPR actually did add these features in the future, what would be your reaction?? Are you gonna be outrage about it? LOL

Let's say this game actually have a proper TPP mode (in exploration & combat), while still maintaining the focus dialog/story scenes stuffs in FPP, would you never gonna use the TPP mode then?? 'cause I am pretty sure most players would use TPP mode while driving most of the time, especially with how horrible the default FOV cockpit in the game vanilla. As once again, modders did wonders to make mod for FOV car slider & also reducing the blinding light effects inside a car. Hell, I am confidence enough to assume when you play this game, driving vehicles mostly on TPP mode.

It's so funy some people claimed I am obsessed with TPP mode. To me instead, all this rants & arguments to OBSESSIVELY deflect some features to better the game make zero sense to me.
My initial post/thread literally a hypothetical scenario for "CP2077 2013 version" & it's a fact that nothing substantial actually added/changes in this game right now, after 7 months btw!

If you want some other features be my guess, I have a list of ideas of it.
Mini Games Ideas
Crafting & Equipment Overhaul Design
Consumables & Vendors Overhaul Design
New Unlockable Things & New features
QoL features & overall gameplay improvement
Cyberpsychosis Design
Companion System
Companion System details
 

Guest 3847602

Guest
Definitely not true. i genuinely believed & remembered the claims for TPP mode existed at least in 2013-2018 (early).
There was no information released between CDPR Group Summer Conference 2012 and E3 2018, except TW3 team being moved to work on Cyberpunk in 2016. Their own Twitter account had been inactive until January 2018.
OK, so it's pretty clear that you are so adamant on NOT NEEDING to add TPP mode & AV driving system, downright saying DON'T WANT IT. If CDPR actually did add these features in the future, what would be your reaction?? Are you gonna be outrage about it? LOL
Nothing to be outraged about. In my first post I have said that I can imagine them adding TPP and AVs in the sequel, but not in this game. It is FAR too late now.
 
TPP vs FPP is an old and recurring topic and it probably shows how much a large group of players would love to have TPP option in the game, but regardless of whether CDPR intented to skip TPP altogether, or planned but scratched it somewhere during the development, adding TPP now would introduce some serious complications. How to connect it to all story moments, designed purely around FPP (animations, camera, things that happen to V from our eyes' perspective)? Making separate story sequences with TPP would mean an enormous amount of work - they would have to design whole sections of the game again for that particular camera view or just cutscenes like in the trailers.

Adding TPP in the game, but keeping FPP in story moments would create weird transitions, even immersion breaking - it could break this certain flow of the game we are having now with only FPP. I myself kinda wanted TPP too, but after playing the full game two times I gave it a good second thought and I now doubt it would be a good idea. Just like @ooodrin said, it's rather too late for that.

I think there was a small mistake on CDPR part to introduce TPP view option for vehicles, but I think I understand why they did this: it might be actually a bit difficult to drive a car or motorcycle in FPP here, other than just slow riding around for chill. That's why there's the TPP option to help people handle vehicles better, I think. Still, it feels a bit inconsistent and might have raised even more questions from players about "why isn't there full TPP option here?".
 
My only problem with the AVV mode is the fact that there's nothing to visit in the sky. You'd just be flying over the same environments.
 
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