What Cyberpunk 2077 "2013 version" might have look like in UE4/5

[drona.667]

but regardless of whether CDPR intented to skip TPP altogether, or planned but scratched it somewhere during the development, adding TPP now would introduce some serious complications. How to connect it to all story moments, designed purely around FPP (animations, camera, things that happen to V from our eyes' perspective)? Making separate story sequences with TPP would mean an enormous amount of work - they would have to design whole sections of the game again for that particular camera view or just cutscenes like in the trailers.

Adding TPP in the game, but keeping FPP in story moments would create weird transitions, even immersion breaking - it could break this certain flow of the game we are having now with only FPP. I myself kinda wanted TPP too, but after playing the full game two times I gave it a good second thought and I now doubt it would be a good idea. Just like @ooodrin said, it's rather too late for that.

I am very much disagree on this just from the very fact there is a clear way to do it properly, many ways in fact.

Again, TPP mode can be easily COMPLETELY OPTIONAL with exploration & combat situation. This will effect nothing negatively to the dialog/story/cutscenes, especially when most of the times important dialog scenes will forced V to either sit down or stay in place. Such thing can easily auto prompt the camera from TPP back to FPP (which is literally in TPP mod btw). Again, bear in mind I am talking about optional TPP mode, not TPP cutscenes. That would be a different matter & I personally made my peace with it.

The argument of being "too late" make zero sense to me. There is nothing too late right now, with everything that already disastrously happened to this game. IT WILL ONLY BE TOO LATE WHEN CDPR ABANDON THIS GAME, if that is exactly what you wanted...

Some people also argue it would be to much of a hassle making proper animation for TPP mode. My god?!! This is a millions dollars AAA company, not indie game devs with 1-3 workforce & limited budgets!! WHEN IN FACT plenty of such Indie game devs actually have both FPP & TPP mode in their games!! LOL

Am I the crazy one here? LOL

ALSO, this game had spin off CP Multiplayer. Such a thing basically demand a proper 3rd person model live render when playing MP mode. I am no game devs or expert programmer, but I am pretty sure I know you need that proper "3rd person animation." This is why even old game (yes, old) like GTAV have 2 distinctive player animation movesets for TPP & FPP because they did add the FPP animation to equate a proper FPP looks that comes from "updates." Other FPP Multiplayer games with proper model animation didn't need to do it mostly because IT DEMAND a proper 3rd person animation.

 

[lelxrv]

These videos don't convince me of anything. It looks like any other open world TPP game out there, only with a bit of neon and robots. I'd love TPP option, but in all honesty, I didn't miss it when I played the game.

 

[drona.667]

My only problem with the AVV mode is the fact that there's nothing to visit in the sky. You'd just be flying over the same environments.

That would be a whole another matter imo. A matter of extensive vertical slice "layered" map levels that they once promised (extensively, btw). I would not say "it's too late, it can't be add anymore" as a whole expansion could easily fix that by adding/making multi layered map levels inside most of the mega buidlings that right now completely empty or even the ones that has it simply not enough multi levels that can be explored.

My point is even if even there is no such environment levels right now, it's still a possibility to be exist & it's fine to have AV driving system even without it. To me, it's still add to the fantasy of proper cyberpunk experience.

Applying the same logic here is like saying GTAV don't need aircraft vehicles when basically most of the stuffs happened on the ground LOL
You may say you don't need it but I am pretty sure many people want/love such features.

Post automatically merged: Aug 6, 2021

These videos don't convince me of anything. It looks like any other open world TPP game out there, only with a bit of neon and robots. I'd love TPP option, but in all honesty, I didn't miss it when I played the game.

I am totally lying if I say I didn't missed it, especially after the existence of prototype footage being in TPP, adding also to the present mods that really open up the character customization options for that Cyberpunk fashion styles, completely wasted by FPP focus.
THIS GAME NEED NEW STUFFS to revive itself. It has been 7 months. TPP mode is literally one of the cheapest feature out there & it actually do add a massive advantages to the game image.

 

[incomingdamage]

I am very much disagree on this just from the very fact there is a clear way to do it properly, many ways in fact.

Again, TPP mode can be easily COMPLETELY OPTIONAL with exploration & combat situation. This will effect nothing negatively to the dialog/story/cutscenes, especially when most of the times important dialog scenes will forced V to either sit down or stay in place. Such thing can easily auto prompt the camera from TPP back to FPP (which is literally in TPP mod btw). Again, bear in mind I am talking about optional TPP mode, not TPP cutscenes. That would be a different matter & I personally made my peace with it.

The argument of being "too late" make zero sense to me. There is nothing too late right now, with everything that already disastrously happened to this game. IT WILL ONLY BE TOO LATE WHEN CDPR ABANDON THIS GAME, if that is exactly what you wanted...

Some people also argue it would be to much of a hassle making proper animation for TPP mode. My god?!! This is a millions dollars AAA company, not indie game devs with 1-3 workforce & limited budgets!! WHEN IN FACT plenty of such Indie game devs actually have both FPP & TPP mode in their games!! LOL

Am I the crazy one here? LOL

ALSO, this game had spin off CP Multiplayer. Such a thing basically demand a proper 3rd person model live render when playing MP mode. I am no game devs or expert programmer, but I am pretty sure I know you need that proper "3rd person animation." This is why even old game (yes, old) like GTAV have 2 distinctive player animation movesets for TPP & FPP because they did add the FPP animation to equate a proper FPP looks that comes from "updates." Other FPP Multiplayer games with proper model animation didn't need to do it mostly because IT DEMAND a proper 3rd person animation.

No one is crazy, we are just sharing our opinions

The "auto prompt" of camera from TPP to FPP is what worries me. Like I said earlier, I fear that it would create weird, immersion breaking transitions, the more that apparently CDPR wanted to create story game strongly focused on the concept of us being V and seeing everything through their eyes. A very "personal" story, so to speak. Switching between TPP and FPP, even when optional, could break this subtle bond with the character we are supposed to be. Not saying that they didn't have a concept with TPP option somewhere in the works, but it changed into a certain artisitic vision of experiencing the game through the character's eyes. I really doubt CDPR will change their mind about it, even if it's technically doable for them.

I'm not knowledgable in game design either, but seeing how broken for example is V's shadow (and their body model - which the famous TPP mod clearly shows), I take it that they might have had some serious issues with proper rendering of the character in the environment - the digital mirrors are another soft proof of these problems. Wondering myself what went wrong, but well, that's how things are now.

There was some multiplayer in their plans, but is it still there? Not sure. If they are still planning to create multiplayer, then yes, I believe they will have to get back to the TPP matter. Time will show.

And no, nobody wants them to abandon the game , quite the contrary.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I think there was a small mistake on CDPR part to introduce TPP view option for vehicles, but I think I understand why they did this: it might be actually a bit difficult to drive a car or motorcycle in FPP here, other than just slow riding around for chill

Not agree, Arch or Kusanagi are damn good to drive in first person. And the Rattler and the Quadra V-Tec are also very good

 

[cstretten]

They should at least fix the default height of the camera in FPP. It's at the base of the neck/throat/clavicle at the moment. Makes V seem shorter than everyone, and in most cars (when in FPP) you can't even see over the dash board/steering wheel.
They should also widen the FOV when in FPP in car mode to see more peripherally.

TPP would be cool - they can do it (mirrors, photo mode etc.)

But we know the animations are wonky as hell (arms and legs) - floating guns etc. So they'd have to fix the animations or have a second set for TPP vs. FPP.

 

[drona.667]

No one is crazy, we are just sharing our opinions

The "auto prompt" of camera from TPP to FPP is what worries me. Like I said earlier, I fear that it would create weird, immersion breaking transitions, the more that apparently CDPR wanted to create story game strongly focused on the concept of us being V and seeing everything through their eyes. A very "personal" story, so to speak. Switching between TPP and FPP, even when optional, could break this subtle bond with the character we are supposed to be. Not saying that they didn't have a concept with TPP option somewhere in the works, but it changed into a certain artisitic vision of experiencing the game through the character's eyes. I really doubt CDPR will change their mind about it, even if it's technically doable for them.

I'm not knowledgable in game design either, but seeing how broken for example is V's shadow (and their body model - which the famous TPP mod clearly shows), I take it that they might have had some serious issues with proper rendering of the character in the environment - the digital mirrors are another soft proof of these problems. Wondering myself what went wrong, but well, that's how things are now.

There was some multiplayer in their plans, but is it still there? Not sure. If they are still planning to create multiplayer, then yes, I believe they will have to get back to the TPP matter. Time will show.

And no, nobody wants them to abandon the game , quite the contrary.

Well, that was the impressions that I got when people keep deflecting with "TPP not needed" & "it's all too late." It's such a defeatist thinking imo LOL

My position here is simply how to make the game better & of course some of it will definitely includes things such TPP mode & AV driving system. To say that only "some" players only want those things is a total understatement.

I always said OPTIONAL. It is indeed the keyword. All the buzzwords of player immersions is ultimately on PLAYER CHOICES & PERSPECTIVES imo. Who's to say that TPP can't be as immersive?? some games can definitely do that & CP2077 can do effectively just fine imo. It's literally just changing camera move & proper animation. It's such weird rhetoric imo. What about the lack of leisure activities or broken police system/AIs in NC or even the occasional NCP bugs/glitches?? Some players would definitely say CP2077 hinder/ruin the immersivenes from that alone.

I believe the weird player shadow happened in FPP exactly because it didn't have a proper 3rd person animation. the shadow render based upon the existing invisible render of the model. That's why V hands & shoulders shadow looks very weird sometimes, like it's disproportion & detached to the body, especially female body V.

 

[Notserious80]

Yea i think one of the reasons theres no TPP is if you remember when the mod came out? the horror of Vs body when not in first person? the shadows when swimming? Yea they made it like that too fit the arms/legs into the sliding/aiming so on so you simulate human vision field. It just doesnt work with just 100 degress (max i might add without mods) its a common problem with first person view. just as third person view is always too much since you can look over stuff. FPP adds immersion too but i allways get a werid feeling in cp2077 the "camera" isent where its supposed to be.

 

[drona.667]

They should at least fix the default height of the camera in FPP. It's at the base of the neck/throat/clavicle at the moment. Makes V seem shorter than everyone, and in most cars (when in FPP) you can't even see over the dash board/steering wheel.
They should also widen the FOV when in FPP in car mode to see more peripherally.

TPP would be cool - they can do it (mirrors, photo mode etc.)

But we know the animations are wonky as hell (arms and legs) - floating guns etc. So they'd have to fix the animations or have a second set for TPP vs. FPP.

Yes, that's why I mentioned a mods that provides FOV slider or preset.
Yes, a proper TPP mode need a proper 3rd person animation. If the game already have it, simple TPP mods basically solved the whole thing already.

 

[incomingdamage]

I always said OPTIONAL. It is indeed the keyword. All the buzzwords of player immersions is ultimately on PLAYER CHOICES & PERSPECTIVES imo. Who's to say that TPP can't be as immersive?? some games can definitely do that & CP2077 can do effectively just fine imo. It's literally just changing camera move & proper animation. It's such weird rhetoric imo.

Hm, I don't think it's weird rhetoric. If we take this so called immersion into account as something that helps us feel as being the character we play, then FPP certainly wins over TPP in my opinion. When you play a character in TPP view, it's usually a bit like watching a movie, only you are controlling one of the actors. You can be very emotionally engaged in what happens to them etc., like in Witcher 3, or Mass Effect series, but you don't get that much connection with the character as with FPP. I'm guessing that this was how CDPR saw this matter and that's why they focused on FPP, leaving only TPP for vehicles, for ease of use. That's at least how I see it.
Lack of choice for the player? Well, they apparently wanted us to experience the story in the game in a certain way.

How the "immersion" is broken through weird shadow behaviour, bad animations and lack of activities or dynamic events in the city, is another thing. Would love to have more "life" in Night City as well.

 

[Didacgomez]

The "auto prompt" of camera from TPP to FPP is what worries me. Like I said earlier, I fear that it would create weird, immersion breaking transitions, the more that apparently CDPR wanted to create story game strongly focused on the concept of us being V and seeing everything through their eyes.

Vampire Bloodlines did that: 1st person (forced) for dialogue and gunfight,3rd person(forced) for melee and navigation either in 1st or 3rd person(player election); and indeed it had some weird transitions at some points (from dialogue before a boss fight if you are a melee character or the other way around).

 

[drona.667]

Hm, I don't think it's weird rhetoric. If we take this so called immersion into account as something that helps us feel as being the character we play, then FPP certainly wins over TPP in my opinion. When you play a character in TPP view, it's usually a bit like watching a movie, only you are controlling one of the actors. You can be very emotionally engaged in what happens to them etc., like in Witcher 3, or Mass Effect series, but you don't get that much connection with the character as with FPP. I'm guessing that this was how CDPR saw this matter and that's why they focused on FPP, leaving only TPP for vehicles, for ease of use. That's at least how I see it.
Lack of choice for the player? Well, they apparently wanted us to experience the story in the game in a certain way.

How the "immersion" is broken through weird shadow behaviour, bad animations and lack of activities or dynamic events in the city, is another thing. Would love to have more "life" in Night City as well.

i understand all of that. The weird rhetoric that I mentioned here is when some people keep saying "FPP is the only way to make things the most immersive thing ever or whatnot & that's why TPP is not that immersive, etc, etc." This is also why I have never said "TPP only is the way to go" or vice versa.
I am personally fine with both & I see a bigger more impactful immersive aspects in other things, not just a simple camera changes. Now it all come down to what SIMPLE features that really benefits to this game, present & future.

 

[MartineDee]

Is this a real game coming up?

I can tell, I prefer a lot to see 2099 than something before 2077. Some game depicting earlier times might feel a bit much too retro after having experienced the blast from 2077.

Post automatically merged: Aug 6, 2021

I hope there is the first-person view.

And especially, if things are kept in the line with Cyberpunk 2077, there's no way I would skip the game.

 

[drona.667]

Is this a real game coming up?

I can tell, I prefer a lot to see 2099 than something before 2077. Some game depicting earlier times might feel a bit much too retro after having experienced the blast from 2077.

Post automatically merged: Aug 6, 2021

I hope there is the first-person view.

And especially, if things are kept in the line with Cyberpunk 2077, there's no way I would skip the game.

Prototype stage, possible upcoming kicstarter campaign arriving. Inspired mostly by Blade Runner, so defintely have that noir & retrofuturism Cyberpunk style.
I believe there are both FPP & TPP mode/view.

 

[Erdrick80]

You don't know how happy it makes me that cyberpunk 2077 was not made third person. I can't stand those games anymore. Seeing the character distracts me.

Thank you CDPR for not making it a third person game!!!!!

 

[Trykz]

The TPP vs. FPP argument is completely pointless.

Especially from the "immersion" perspective. Preference varies widely from gamer to gamer. Some feel FPP fosters deeper immersion, while others prefer TPP so they can actually view their character in action. Still others prefer a hybrid system to afford them both perspectives on a situational basis. I consider myself part of the latter group.

The game already has the base system for hybrid play in BOTH perspectives. That much is obvious by simply jumping in/on a vehicle. Or using a mirror. The problem is a lack of TPP animations (with proper modeling for shadowcasting, etc.) for combat and basic movement. A limited number of animations are required for the current TPP portions of the game. MANY MORE would be required for proper TPP in combat and general gameplay. The game's engine (RED Engine 4.0) touts an "advanced animation system", which is quite obviously not being utilized anywhere near it's full potential.

So what's that mean? In a nutshell (and for reasons we can only speculate over), it was never fully developed.

Now you might ask, "how could you possibly know this?"

Well, CDPR themselves have already confirmed as much. They intend to build their next Witcher game on this engine (and have likely already started). And I don't see a FPP Witcher game being very well received by the IP's fanbase.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Maybe those people who can't stand FPP shouldn't have bought the game that was presented as "1st person-only" in the first place.
Just as those people without VR headset shouldn't buy VR-only games. Seems like common sense to me...

 

[MartineDee]

Maybe those people who can't stand FPP shouldn't have bought the game that was presented as "1st person-only" in the first place.
Just as those people without VR headset shouldn't buy VR-only games. Seems like common sense to me...

I wouldn't mind them getting the 3rd person play, insofar I can play it from the 1st person.
I like to see things that the character sees, it immensely helps the immersion and enjoying the game.

 

[Guest 3847602]

I wouldn't mind them getting the 3rd person play, insofar I can play it from the 1st person.
I like to see things that the character sees, it immensely helps the immersion and enjoying the game.

I don't have a priori affinity for either, but I do see Cyberpunk 2077 as a game that takes full advantage of FPP that couldn't possibly work as good with TPP. Just as The Witcher games wouldn't have worked with FPP. Nothing wrong with making a choice that would best suit the game your'e making and sticking to it. It wasn't laziness or saving time, because making seamless transition between exploration and conversation and having interactive 1st person cutscenes like this game has is much more difficult to pull off than traditional 3rd person cutscenes.

 

[Trykz]

I don't have a priori affinity for either, but I do see Cyberpunk 2077 as a game that takes full advantage of FPP that couldn't possibly work as good with TPP. Just as The Witcher games wouldn't have worked with FPP. Nothing wrong with making a choice that would best suit the game your'e making and sticking to it. It wasn't laziness or saving time, because making seamless transition between exploration and conversation and having interactive 1st person cutscenes like this game has is much more difficult to pull off than traditional 3rd person cutscenes.

I like the FPP in combat and cutscenes. But man what I'd give for "at least" the ability to scroll out to view my character when just walking/jogging around in the world doing little else. I can already do this when driving or riding. Camera "snapping" from one perspective to another has been used situationally in games since the dawn of 3D gaming. Running down the street in TPP, and suddenly enter combat? Perspective snaps to FPP. Entering a cutscene? Snap. Entering into a conversation? Snap.

It's not as hard as you're presuming it to be, and would require little more than a TPP model with a minimal number of proper TPP animations (the TPP model and ALL clothing are already in the inventory screen). I've personally used camera snapping in a few of my mods for Skyrim and Fallout 4. And I guarantee you that the things my scripts are doing while forced into snapped FPP are FAR more complex than just showing the character avatar walking or running down the street. Things like changing the player's race, unequipping all of the player's equipped items, moving the player to an entirely new custom location, and re-equipping their Pip-Boy. Right before snapping back to TPP to finish the animation sequence.

All in the blink of an eye. If I can do all of that as a lowly modder, then I can only imagine what CDPR could do as a full-fledged development studio.