RPG & unjustified expectations?

[Guest 3847602]

And how can you explain a clear contradiction in biochip operation in the epilogue? If chip could successfully rewrite body for chip's inhabitant (Johnny), why the very same chip couldn't rewrite body again for a new chip inhabitant, V?

Spoiler

Alt said that she couldn't undo the changes Johnny's engram had already made to V's body, that DNA reconfiguration has gone too far.
In the Devil ending, Takemura explains that V has the unique phenotype, thanks to the biochip and needs to wait for suitable body for transfer.
So, the problem is in the state of V's body at the end of the game, not the biochip.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

You can chart that up to "unjustified expectations". I just hope that the DLC at least expands on what we already have because it is so barebones.

Every single time I play through the game I keep going "all this potential...." and I wouldn't say "wasted" but it comes close. Mike Pondsmith has effectively made new lore specifically for this game in close collaboration with CDPR. I mean, he's even in talks right now for the DLC doing .. probably the same thing.


It sucks because there's just so much interesting stuff. And they don't explore it. The further you get into the game the more apparent that becomes. I expected just that little bit more. Even if it's two big DLC's it might not even be enough.

The city itself, the romance options, the corps, the gangs, the nomads, the mercs at the afterlife, Lizzy Wizzy / the 0.1% and their opulence The braindances.. etc etc etc. All of it is there. And some of it is explored, but so much of it is left alone or only skimmed through. And that's so sad. Everything they do focus on is amazing. "Sinnerman" is... something else. They can do it.

Mike made so much Cyberpunk, and allowed no-one to make a game about it until now. There is just too much Cyberpunk to fit in Cyberpunk 2077. Even with DLC I doubt they'll be able to do it justice.

no video game can be that deep. Best chance might be some franchise that lasts decades, or a live service.
But mostly to get that deep you need other types of content, books, movies, shorts, etc.

Thank you, now i have one question less.
And how can you explain a clear contradiction in biochip operation in the epilogue? If chip could successfully rewrite body for chip's inhabitant (Johnny), why the very same chip couldn't rewrite body again for a new chip inhabitant, V? To create cheap, late and unjustified drama of death in 6 months?

my take is different from some others here.

The difference is, the body learns how to fight the relic.
the relic is essentially a artificial nano virus, rewriting the DNA of the host to rewrite and accept a new neural framework, then adding old data from the engram to a close approximation of the type of brain that engram needs to still be itself.

however, the body does notice this and actually tries to prevent this. But when successful, the changes are too fast, the changed body no longer sees the new brain as the enemy, but it still recognizes the relic nano virus as a virus. So next time it tries to alter the body, its already immune. Its a once per body type thing.

the things in game that suggest this is that they still have problems with diseases with autoimmune responses, they still haven't cured MS, (radio News discusses this)
the fact that alt says, she underestimated the body's ability to fight/effect the relic,
Takemura says arasaka's current solution, based on data from patient zero(v) is they can avoid certain issues by having a certain level of genetic matching with host and engram. (a common way to avoid body rejecting an implant)
Alt also says aggressive antibiotics and immune enhancing stuff (often injected when getting cyberware, dots on V's arm) are part of the issue.
And takemura speaking for Arasaka, suggests the only viable option was to put V in a new body, they never mention re relic ing V


short version, Vs body is now immune to the DNA changing facets of the relic, and Vs new hybrid DNA immune system rejects their old neurology. Relic is a once per body tech.

 

[SaulTuk]

no video game can be that deep. Best chance might be some franchise that lasts decades, or a live service.
But mostly to get that deep you need other types of content, books, movies, shorts, etc.


my take is different from some others here.

The difference is, the body learns how to fight the relic.
the relic is essentially a artificial nano virus, rewriting the DNA of the host to rewrite and accept a new neural framework, then adding old data from the engram to a close approximation of the type of brain that engram needs to still be itself.

however, the body does notice this and actually tries to prevent this. But when successful, the changes are too fast, the changed body no longer sees the new brain as the enemy, but it still recognizes the relic nano virus as a virus. So next time it tries to alter the body, its already immune. Its a once per body type thing.

the things in game that suggest this is that they still have problems with diseases with autoimmune responses, they still haven't cured MS, (radio News discusses this)
the fact that alt says, she underestimated the body's ability to fight/effect the relic,
Takemura says arasaka's current solution, based on data from patient zero(v) is they can avoid certain issues by having a certain level of genetic matching with host and engram. (a common way to avoid body rejecting an implant)
Alt also says aggressive antibiotics and immune enhancing stuff (often injected when getting cyberware, dots on V's arm) are part of the issue.
And takemura speaking for Arasaka, suggests the only viable option was to put V in a new body, they never mention re relic ing V


short version, Vs body is now immune to the DNA changing facets of the relic, and Vs new hybrid DNA immune system rejects their old neurology. Relic is a once per body tech.

Interesting

 

[CS554]

In general to topic

I can't say I'm really interested about "what is what" debate. Back in the day I had no idea Deus Ex is RPG, for me it was just a great game. Then other games, Fallout 3 and New Vegas, can't say I really remember much from those. Mass Effect, the first one in the series sold it to me, second was like Gears of War and I don't know what the 3rd one was. I can appreciate that there is are some branching, choices. I don't think I discovered that I could save helicopter pilot in Deus Ex but on my 3rd playthrough. In Mass Effect there was a scenario that presented situation where very hard choice had to be made and I can appreciate that sort of things in context where that makes sense. The first Witcher game was somewhere there too but second just wasn't for me, played it like 5 hours or something.

Ten years passed but I came play the Outer Worlds and Wasteland 3 due pandemic situation and for me those games benefitted from having choices. Even if I could predict some consequences from miles away, it's still a bit of pause, re-think situation and I think contributes towards replayability. For me especially Outer Worlds covered very interesting themes and I appreciated that I could experience that on single playthrough.

Before going to CP 2077 some summary.

I don't recall if Deus Ex had any character creation at all, nor experience mechanic. Character was upgraded by finding upgrade canisters with different benefits. For me that's what makes most sense. I can remember some named NPC's, Anna Navarre, Gunther Herman(?) Maggie ? several others, their roles in the world. They had motives that made sense and more than few were tragic characters. Game didn't shy away from obvious issues with transhumanism, like that Anna's and Gunther's implants being mechanical was rendering them obsolete. In retrospect, those NPC's and little interaction there were among few other things, allowed me to distract myself from conspiracy which was interesting to crack during first playthrough but I think has been deadweight of prequels.

I can't summarize the rest per game basis even briefly without this turning to wall of text. In the end for having character creation and all that is okay as long as I don't need to think about it too much. Games either has interesting ideas that appeal to me or not and just having something there to fiddle with doesn't necessarily has any value for me. Say Mass Effect 3, certain weapons were gimped, probably because developers wanted players to focus on powers, except that powers didn't always work. Couldn't charge that bot, couldn't lift Kai Leng, so that there's some system, it doesn't have any value for me by just being there.

Thinking of Outer Worlds and CP 2077 it comes down to having option to create, say tank. It's just a human thing, ability to react starts to decrease after about age of 26. So in story driven game someone like me can compensate for player skill / ability that opens possibility to even enjoy action sequences but mostly not needing to worry about too much about action and keeping focus on story, balance there being that I don't need to perform something repetitive that much to get there, because grinding is not exploring the story.

Expectations, for me they change. I don't think I can present objective opinion of Mass Effect 2 for example. It's that I while I was along the ride, it was something different to first ME game and while it explored the human condition through daddy issues it simply didn't engage me intellectually, I was starting to feel my age, life in general, I had different options and also different kind of problems that reflected to other things.

Outer Worlds surprised me. For me it presents very clever satire and in and through its theme it explorers very human things relevant to our history and today.

CP 2077 also goes to explore human condition but it uses both philosophical and psychological means to do that. Sure as heck didn't expect that.

 

[Didacgomez]

I don't recall if Deus Ex had any character creation at all, nor experience mechanic.

It had skill points at start, experience mechanic and skill progression... CP2077 actually is closer to original Deus Ex than Deus Ex Invisible, HR and Mankind in that regard (which simplified to augmentation only).

 

[CS554]

It had skill points at start, experience mechanic and skill progression... CP2077 actually is closer to original Deus Ex than Deus Ex Invisible, HR and Mankind in that regard (which simplified to augmentation only).

Really can't trust my memory, ha!

That I don't remembered the whole thing, even playing it through three times, I think that's example of transparency I appreciate. My memories are from the game events, not from "playing the menu".

EDIT: Okay inventory tetris, that wasn't fun, but I think there might have been a trick to stack some items.

EDIT 2: Items I were referring are Augmentation Canisters that enable different abilities like breathing under water or environmental resistance.

 

[Feline_Witcher]

Regardless of expectations and the many technical flaws, this game is still far better than whatever atrocities EAware and UbiDRM have done in the last ten years (if not more). KOTOR 2 also had horrid glitches yet it was a masterpiece

 

[Pufty]

For how large this topic is and how many have discussed specifics, I'ma just say that Cyberpunk 2077, the released title, is a game that's playable and enjoyable, but it isn't the game that was previewed. Hype or not.

 

[Didacgomez]

Really can't trust my memory, ha!

That I don't remembered the whole thing, even playing it through three times, I think that's example of transparency I appreciate. My memories are from the game events, not from "playing the menu".

EDIT: Okay inventory tetris, that wasn't fun, but I think there might have been a trick to stack some items.

EDIT 2: Items I were referring are Augmentation Canisters that enable different abilities like breathing under water or environmental resistance.

Probably I played in more recent times, don´t worries. Its just that I've find funny how much flak receives CP2077 leveling system, while is closer to original Deus Ex than its successors ... main flaw of CP2077 for me, its lack of "social" skills at all... but I can imagine people would not like failing a romance for not having enough charisma,or persuasion or a level of technical and intelligence aptitude for Judy (just made this up, choose your favorite Romance, think about his/her archetype and put a couple of attributes that you need to invest to be able to romance).

Edit:I kind of like inventory Tetris, but not everybody cup of tea for sure.

 

[Draconifors]

Topic is this game, not how much you (don't) like whatever other games. Completely off-topic posts deleted.

 

[CS554]

Probably I played in more recent times, don´t worries. Its just that I've find funny how much flak receives CP2077 leveling system, while is closer to original Deus Ex than its successors ... main flaw of CP2077 for me, its lack of "social" skills at all... but I can imagine people would not like failing a romance for not having enough charisma,or persuasion or a level of technical and intelligence aptitude for Judy (just made this up, choose your favorite Romance, think about his/her archetype and put a couple of attributes that you need to invest to be able to romance).

Edit:I kind of like inventory Tetris, but not everybody cup of tea for sure.

Tetris was kinda cool back in the day, but inventory Tetris, that one I can pass.

Social skills thing is that I don't know how they work in tabletop and it's hard for me to speculate. But I think they set some hard limits to emphasize NPC agenda and make them more lifelike. I'm not that much to romances in video games, that said, my both V's has ended with Panam.

What comes to V's social skills there are things that are frustrating. Judy is one and during my first playthrough I sort of though that where her head is, it looks like something but only after my second playthrough and with a bit of luck found a summary for background. Wrote about that here
I'm about 99% sure but hoped someone else would run it against character like peer review, but I have happened to pick this perk about creating topics that swim like bricks.

But that's where lack of V's social skills is a bit frustrating and has only options to go along or leave it. That said, what kind of options there would be as there's no really support network available but her friends and V can be many things but its hard to say if chancing her mind in that situation is within possibilities but then it could be something else. Creative reasons or if CDPR simply had to run it like that to avoid creating problem(s) somewhere else. Could think of couple but can't argue, just out of my league.

Overall I have found it funny when I read topics about major NPC's how lot's of feedback reads like it's about real people and I hope CDRP doesn't change anything there and go like, oh... they say this one is inconsistent when that's one of features of homo sapiens. Haha.