The game invites you to consider build strategies, but at the end of the day if you just picked a bunch of stuff at random you'd still be ridiculously OP, even on the hardest difficulty. So to that extent, "playstyle" is LARPing plus taking the minimum attributes and perks you need to enable you to LARP (the perks that gate access to some tools and tricks).
The basis of a good RPG system is certainly there, but they need to do a lot of work to make it so that putting thought into your build, thinking about your build, actually pays off.
As with everything else in the game apart from the main story and main side-quests, the build system is half-baked.
The game invites you to consider build strategies, but at the end of the day if you just picked a bunch of stuff at random you'd still be ridiculously OP, even on the hardest difficulty.
Yeah, sadly I'm inclined to agree. I think the #1 cause of that is that the damage system is so very dependent upon the level difference between V and the enemies.
My current V is level 34 now but his Reflex is only 3 and I've not got a single perk related to using firearms. I do happen to have Lizzie, and I admit via Tech 18 I've upgraded it to Legendary and put a bundle of Crunch mods into it. All the same, I've got the minimum possible skills relevant to firing it.
Even so, just for a chuckle I shot an enemy (listed as moderate threat) with it recently and still vaporised them in one hit.
I can one-hit kill a regular enemy with abilities related to my dump stat. Imagine how my play-through its going with 20 Intelligence, level 18 in quick hacking and almost every QH-related perk in the game.
Yeah, sadly I'm inclined to agree. I think the #1 cause of that is that the damage system is so very dependent upon the level difference between V and the enemies.
My current V is level 34 now but his Reflex is only 3 and I've not got a single perk related to using firearms. I do happen to have Lizzie, and I admit via Tech 18 I've upgraded it to Legendary and put a bundle of Crunch mods into it. All the same, I've got the minimum possible skills relevant to firing it.
Even so, just for a chuckle I shot an enemy (listed as moderate threat) with it recently and still vaporised them in one hit.
I can one-hit kill a regular enemy with abilities related to my dump stat. Imagine how my play-through its going with 20 Intelligence, level 18 in quick hacking and almost every QH-related perk in the game.
In a meat and potatoes sense, the implementation of the combat is good fun (the action, the fx, etc., etc.), but in terms of a satisfying progression system that means something, that gives some sense of achievement, it needs a lot of work still. Either that, or they need to give some more transparency to modders so that modders can fix it.
The power fantasy should come as a reward for building well, not for facerolling the keyboard when attributing points and perks.
To it credit though, I really only noticed on a 2nd playthrough. I expect that the majority of players will only play once and then it's not so obvious. That's still what separates CP77 from being "an OK game" and being "a great game" with massive replay value.
Again, comparing to Diablo 2 (as I've done in another thread), I could (and have) played through Acts 1-5 at least 15 times (possibly closer to 30). That's because the 7 classes there really did have unique play styles and the difficulty unlocking (the first time I ever saw what-is-now-called NG+) added a real worthwhile challenge that continued to evolve those play styles through second & third play-throughs.
The "damage and resistance by level" scaling that CP77 has is obviously simple, but as gurugeorge has pointed out, you could be attacking with a wet haddock, wearing nothing more than a paper bag, with no perks or attributes. As long as your level is sufficiently higher than the enemy, none of that matters because you're still going to win.
I suppose those concepts exist in PnP RPGs too (like, just as your character levels, they get better at everything, including stuff that isn't their main thing) but if CP77 was going for that effect, they've obscured it from the player.
To it credit though, I really only noticed on a 2nd playthrough. I expect that the majority of players will only play once and then it's not so obvious. That's still what separates CP77 from being "an OK game" and being "a great game" with massive replay value.
Again, comparing to Diablo 2 (as I've done in another thread), I could (and have) played through Acts 1-5 at least 15 times (possibly closer to 30). That's because the 7 classes there really did have unique play styles and the difficulty unlocking (the first time I ever saw what-is-now-called NG+) added a real worthwhile challenge that continued to evolve those play styles through second & third play-throughs.
The "damage and resistance by level" scaling that CP77 has is obviously simple, but as gurugeorge has pointed out, you could be attacking with a wet haddock, wearing nothing more than a paper bag, with no perks or attributes. As long as your level is sufficiently higher than the enemy, none of that matters because you're still going to win.
I suppose those concepts exist in PnP RPGs too (like, just as your character levels, they get better at everything, including stuff that isn't their main thing) but if CP77 was going for that effect, they've obscured it from the player.
I'm using the rebalance mod on Nexus at the moment, it actually solves quite a few of the problems with the system, without making it feel too different in spirit from what CDPR gave us. (Sort of analogous to the way Ghost Mode enhances and improves CDPR's system in Witcher 3.)
CDPR seems to be relentlessly pushing everyone toward a playstyle of pumping lead and huffing inhalers. If you like anything else (netrunning, stealth), too bad.
I have a personal proclivity towards stealth and (when it comes to open-world games) attacking from a long range and (where possible) from an unusual position that the targets can't easily reach.
In CP77 that translates to often using leg cyberware to climb structures, where I've got a good view of all of the enemies and can mark all of their positions. In my previous play-through with silenced revolvers, I'd then pick off any enemies who were isolated and could be killed with none others noticing. I'd then prepare for an all-out assault, using sandevistan to start the fight, so I can launch a volley of shots into the enemies and thin their numbers out before they have time to react.
This second playthrough is a lot less tactical now because I've gotten to the point that very little threatens me. With legendary ultimate QHs and more RAM than I know what to do with, I can take out 6 enemies all at once by throwing cyberpsychosis, suicide & system reset into them (I have the legendary deck that allows ultimate QHs to spread once). If that doesn't kill them all, the two psychos running around gives anybody left plenty to keep them busy and break cover, so I can blast them individually.
I started this thread to get an idea as to what I might play for my third play-through (when I get around to it, probably after expansions have been released). I think I will intentionally go for a melee/body build. Probably along the berserk path, with shotgun/gorilla arms.
I played my first walkthrough 100% completed Solid Snake Style, silenced revolver full time undetected (not on some cases vs adam smasher or cyberpsychos tanks) hiding the bodies and using the netrunners build just for extract the max money and sabotage the optics. Took me 160 hours to complete the entire game like this.
After 2k hours on 9 chars I can tell most of the builds turn out pretty strong if not too strong... that makes fun totally subjective.
on top of op-ness stay pure netrunner and sandevista melee builds. followed by any gun build which offers way to heavy perks (crit, headshot, range boni which make guns still the most powerful weapon cls ingame).
lately the only thing which gives a lil bit of challenge is a berserk build in low level range - but even berserk becomes powerful if you get higher and can make use of its tank boni combined with body & cool/cold blood perks).
always playing in very hard and never had any problems after reaching 25-30.
I started this thread to get an idea as to what I might play for my third play-through (when I get around to it, probably after expansions have been released). I think I will intentionally go for a melee/body build. Probably along the berserk path, with shotgun/gorilla arms.
one of the most flexible melee builds around which gives the chance to swap between Berserk & Sandevista on your likings.
18 Reflex offers the use of Katanas, Mantis Blades and now even Monowire as for 2 versions of Sandevista (the endless one from Fingers and the Warp Dancer Mk 5). 18 Body offers brawler, hammers, clubs alongside athletics and hp-regenaration perks which makes your life way easier with Berserk and Gorilla Arms. Tech like always for money, crafting/upgrading and some perks for bonus dmg on mechs/robots. Cool for certain Ninjitsu and Cold Blood Perks + some dmg/resistance cyberware. 18 Body & Tech also ensure you can open every damn door in the game, dont have to worry which path you wanna take in a gig/mission - you have a golden key with these stats so to speak. And if you worry about cameras - you dont have to since camo is in game.
One of the most flexible Melee builds I ever played - and yes it's one of the most op builds as well since you literally can't die with your high hp, reg and reg on kill perks and if chaos takes over you also have 2 lifesaver cyberwares - the one which tops your hp if you fall below 15% and of course 2nd heart if the world crumbles.
bonus: and if you get bored by melee you simple can switch to any range weapon cls as well by using the perk reroll feature.
Ive only played two.
Body+ref+cool, mantis blades, sandevistan build which I finished the game with;
and body+tech+cool, gorilla arms, berserk build which I tried to build as "tanky".
Overall, theres not much gameplay difference between the two.
The cyber weapons only offer two unique animations each. The crit kill animation actually gets bothersome quite quickly.
Sandevistan slows time yes and its cool. Its largely the only cool gameplay style.
Berserk is very lackluster in comparison to Sandevistan (supposed to just increase your durability and boost damage ie. no real visual effect) and has a bugged(or is it a feature?) ability too, the landing from great height. Its supposed to zero fall damage and give you a hero landing, but it only works in specific circumstances. Other times you just die if you jump. (iirc if you activate it only after you've jumped it doesnt work. ) Great job devs. Although its been a while, maybe its been fixed but I doubt it, considering how little the devs can accomplish in a year.
The "tankiness" has ZERO effect at higher difficulties. It feels like you just wasted all your character sheet points for nothing. You still get 1-2 tapped no matter how much armor you have. Ergo, the "strong solo" build is a joke. Sorry, you cant be Adam Smasher.
I don't even remember did they change the locked doors interaction of gorilla arms; At some point it was just dependant on your body stat and gorilla arms added nothing. This may have been changed. Goddamn Wolf among us does a better job at simulating an unstoppable monster.
Overall after 1,5 years this system still feels like it was haphazardly slapped together with little coordination between efforts, willingness to finish the design or anybody overseeing the design. The gameplay styles don't feel like they got the same amount of dev manhours put to them.
gorilla now adds body points based on rarity yeah. up to 6 (or 8?) on legendary.
sandevista is way to op - especially if you take the "endless" one which only has 3 secs of cool down. you can just "warp dance" around 10+ enemies without getting a single hit - not compareable to berserk in any way tho. playstyle won't differ much on 1-2 enemies but the more amount of enemies at once the playstyle differs a lot - meaning there is no way you can survive certain situations in berserk which are a piece of cake for sandevista.
Stealth is another sign of missing content. Game doesn't reward for stealthy approach, and non-violent takedown has no benefits over killing. I have a theory, explaining this.
In my opinion, devs cut out an entire mechanics, which, by the way, is present in Cyberpunk tabletop pen&pensil rpg — the Humanity. Non-lethal takedowns, Zen master quests, cyberpsycho quests etc were to improve V's Humanity score, thus saving him from probably horrible cyberpsycho ending and such. Killing, violent and selfish choices, over-use of cyberware were to decrease humanity. All of it are working mechanics in pen& pensil Cyberpunk.
For example, good ending with Panam and nomads should be open only for high-Humanity V, detached cyborg should instead join Arasaka as Smasher 2.0 or just screw the meatbags and go into Cyberspace with Alt.
Just like in Dishonored, the more you kill throughout walkthrough, the worse your ending.
Stealth is another sign of missing content. Game doesn't reward for stealthy approach, and non-violent takedown has no benefits over killing. I have a theory, explaining this.
except for in classical AC games (before no-brainer merry kill-them-all one-clicker started with AC3) open fight usually provided significant challenge with high risk of reload from checkpoint. AC back then was proper stealth game. Also, plot in AC is linear and doesn't affected by player's choices
except for in classical AC games (before no-brainer merry kill-them-all one-clicker started with AC3) open fight usually provided significant challenge with high risk of reload from checkpoint. AC back then was proper stealth game. Also, plot in AC is linear and doesn't affected by player's choices
I'm talking about Odyssey. In fact, if I complete a location discreetly, without killing anyone, I earn almost no xp (nor increase any challenge).
It's way more rewarding to simply kill everybody (xp/loot/challenges), exactly as Cyberpunk.
I'm talking about Odyssey. In fact, if I complete a location discreetly, without killing anyone, I earn almost no xp (nor increase any challenge).
It's way more rewarding to simply kill everybody (xp/loot/challenges), exactly as Cyberpunk.
correct, stealth in CP2077 could have sense only if applied to the Humanity score. Remember strange inactive element in the attributes screen, now called Relic? I'm sure it was Humanity before content cut.
I'm on my second playthrough now, and a fair way through it (level 22 I think). What I'm asking about is "what are people's play styles" and what have you found to be interesting/fun ways to approach the game?
As with a lot of RPGs, well-made characters often end up being one-trick ponies. That is, they approach every group of enemies with the same basic precepts and lean heavily on their core competencies. That can make the game a little repetitive and grind-y the longer you are doing the same thing again and again. So, the main thrust of my question is "what play styles have made the game interesting and more enjoyable for you"?
For example, in my first playthrough, I played a streetkid Sandevistan-using Pistols/Revolvers Solo. Whilst I did use a bit of stealth I had virtually nothing invested in Cool or its perks (only the 20% stealth speed boost one). The character's use of stealth was really about observing & marking all of the enemy positions before launching an all-out assault. It didn't matter that enemies had spotted me because by the time my bullet-time had worn off, I was the last thing standing. I also had mantis blades fully up and running so for smaller clusters I could use those instead.
My second playthrough I'm playing a more classic corpo Netrunner style character. That's very much about taking out all of the enemies with quickhacks (often via cameras if available) without being detected, then casually strolling through and collecting the loot from their corpses. Although this netrunner is very strong I rarely feel under threat (like, I've not used a conventional weapon since about level 10). Also, pretty much the exact same tactic works in every single scenario. I very rarely need to swap my quickhacks out (sometimes I put in cyberware malfunction or cripple movement if I'm facing a boss). The usual loadout of short circuit, synapse overload, contagion, ping and (now I have 5 slots) cyberpsychosis is doing me just fine.
So - that 2nd playthrough is an example of a play style that's stronger than my first playthrough but actually IMO a little less fun because the same old tricks kill virtually everything in the game with very low effort required.
For my current play through I ended up putting all my points in to body and tech, mainly cuz I don’t like to be denied by any locked door. Just so happens to be a decent combat build too, but def not optimized.
