[SPOILERS] NPC behavior loops and suspension of disbelief

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This is for NPC behavior that may come out as odd or may break players suspension of disbelief and about ideas how to make that better.

This is not about obvious bugs, like NPC's freaking out if V breaks a bottle but loops and that.

Two things that stood out for me:

Cops arresting a guy close to V's apartment.

Some players can see that scene playing out quite few times, especially those who go through lot of content in game and use V's apartment as their main hub, or just visit it for roleplaying purposes.​
For me that little scene adds a lot but over time it starts to stick out in way that's not really fun. So what if scene could be about the same but it would be happening in slightly different locations. One purpose of scene is give impression of those Night City Megabuildings, how's life in those so I would definitely keep them, but cops and their suspect could be sometimes in front of some other apartment. NPC they are arresting could have different clothes and perhaps scene could be even moved a bit further from apartments and NPC could be in different position, indicating police might be close to transporting their suspect.​


Side job Dream On: objective - meet Elizabeth Peralez in ramen shop in Japantown

On Xbox One X at least on game ver 1.23 - 1.3 There are two NPC's hanging in front of ramen shop in Japantown where V meets Elizabeth Peralez. I didn't notice these NPC's during my first playthrough but noticed them on my second and couldn't not to notice them on my third. They stand from the V's point of view, left side of ramen shop door. They have a loop where other of them gets in the shop, sits in the table close where V sits next to Elizabeth, exit table, come back. Loop may only happen if V is watching them.​
Loop is very easy to miss as most players probably keep their eyes on conversation with Elizabeth. It's however also difficult to ignore once spotted, it's like random NPC were following what Elizabeth and V are conversing about. I do not believe that there's anything intended there but loop may feed player imagination, but not necessarily in a way that enhances player experience and as loop gets repetitive fast and there's no other way to have meaningful interaction with these NPC's but show a gun for them, for me it's a distraction that doesn't contribute to my suspension of disbelief. I would just leave those NPC's outside chatting with themselves (have less actions in this case).​

What other NPC related things there are that stand out in a way that can disrupt your suspension of disbelief?
 
On Xbox One X at least on game ver 1.23 - 1.3 There are two NPC's hanging in front of ramen shop in Japantown where V meets Elizabeth Peralez. I didn't notice these NPC's during my first playthrough but noticed them on my second and couldn't not to notice them on my third. They stand from the V's point of view, left side of ramen shop door. They have a loop where other of them gets in the shop, sits in the table close where V sits next to Elizabeth, exit table, come back. Loop may only happen if V is watching them.
In fact, I'm quite sure there are 3 Tygers :)
One always sit on the chair in front of V, one outside at the right of the entrance (when V look Elisabeth) and the last one make loop the two others. Go outside for few seconds with the first Tyger, goes into the restaurant, sits in front of the second Tyger, "eats" for a few seconds, gets up and return outside (infinite loop).
In my memories, it's the most "obvious" in the whole game.
 
In fact, I'm quite sure there are 3 Tygers :)
One always sit on the chair in front of V, one outside at the right of the entrance (when V look Elisabeth) and the last one make loop the two others. Go outside for few seconds with the first Tyger, goes into the restaurant, sits in front of the second Tyger, "eats" for a few seconds, gets up and return outside (infinite loop).
In my memories, it's the most "obvious" in the whole game.
For me it's been just two with game ver 1.23 and 1.3. I wonder if our experience is different because I'm on One X and you are on Series X. Didn't find any videos that I could use to demonstrate this. Ones I found were from game ver 1.6? and had just one NPC and platform was PC. (key prompts) But regardless, this is sort of thing I hope CDPR would look into.

Edit: And my NPC's weren't Tyger Claw members, just ordinary NPC's.
 
For me it's been just two with game ver 1.23 and 1.3. I wonder if our experience is different because I'm on One X and you are on Series X.
Maybe it could differ depending on the platform. But for being honest, if the one who make his "loop" only stay at the table (eating) without any "loop" at all, it would be better :)
 

"[SPOILERS] NPC BEHAVIOR LOOPS AND SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF"

"This is for NPC behavior that may come out as odd or may break players suspension of disbelief and about ideas how to make that better.
What other NPC related things there are that stand out in a way that can disrupt your suspension of disbelief?"
For me, the guy that complains about the smell in the corner, downstairs. Hear that every time I pass by.
Good thing V can take a different route to her garage early on.
 
There is another one who is "obvious" and it remains until the end. After completing "Down on the Street" and go to see Wakako with Goro in Jig Jig Street (or doing it at least), there is a dude who gets yelled at by his wife (Sorry Darling ? What the hell are you doing here !)
You could see and hear them each time you go to Jig Jig street after :(
 
For me, the guy that complains about the smell in the corner, downstairs. Hear that every time I pass by.
Good thing V can take a different route to her garage early on.

There is another one who is "obvious" and it remains until the end. After completing "Down on the Street" and go to see Wakako with Goro in Jig Jig Street (or doing it at least), there is a dude who gets yelled at by his wife (Sorry Darling ? What the hell are you doing here !)
You could see and hear them each time you go to Jig Jig street after :(
These are tricky. General idea is that their dialogue tells something not only about these characters but in the process also something about the Night City even if it's not obvious. Like cops near V's apartment, they give a picture about life in the Night City Megabuildings but also contribute to world building as V can spot that what happens when there aren't cops around and gangs are in power, like Tyger Claws shaking down person who has a stall in other megabuilding. Cops aren't there and many places, we can actually reflect from these episodes that V's megabuilding is actually on quite good area in Night City.

Same with these two NPC's, their presence and dialogue contributes to suspension of disbelief but at the same time repetition can disrupt that. Could it help if these NPC's wouldn't always be in exact spot? In the area yes, but little variation even if dialogue stays the same? They could have additional dialogue loop too to make it less obvious but I don't think game can track what player's V has already heard, so something could be potentially missed too.
 
Same with these two NPC's, their presence and dialogue contributes to suspension of disbelief but at the same time repetition can disrupt that. Could it help if these NPC's wouldn't always be in exact spot? In the area yes, but little variation even if dialogue stays the same? They could have additional dialogue loop too to make it less obvious but I don't think game can track what player's V has already heard, so something could be potentially missed too.
It's only my opinion, but instead of spawning when you have to follow Goro (obviously, you don't want/have time to stop and listen them...), it could be better to have this two NPCs (and their dialogue) who spawn only once, the very fist time you go to Jig Jig Street (or the second time, if you follow Goro the first time). Because with Goro, it's the only moment where you're not really free to walk around in Jig Jig street.
 
It's only my opinion, but instead of spawning when you have to follow Goro (obviously, you don't want/have time to stop and listen them...), it could be better to have this two NPCs (and their dialogue) who spawn only once, the very fist time you go to Jig Jig Street (or the second time, if you follow Goro the first time). Because with Goro, it's the only moment where you're not really free to walk around in Jig Jig street.
I can imagine that could work. It's a bit difficult to me and this is why is important people come up with their ideas.

For me there are lot's of things, like other pair of cops in food stall at V's megabuilding entrance, older one is lecturing younger one about not to endanger herself and call MaxTac next time they encounter a cyberpsycho. And I have been wondering what's the difference between them and cops near V's apartment, is that a) I often use fast travel point near V's apartment later in game, I don't see cops at the entrance that often and b) in elevator down I usually follow if what's on the news and when exiting my mind is already more or less on task my V's going to do. Task could be a job, or gig or just visiting a ripper doc, but those two cops really don't stand out nearly as much as those near V's apartment.

So I'm sort of poor reference for quality here, but things like you posted about, that's what this topic is about really.
 
These are tricky. General idea is that their dialogue tells something not only about these characters but in the process also something about the Night City even if it's not obvious. Like cops near V's apartment, they give a picture about life in the Night City Megabuildings but also contribute to world building as V can spot that what happens when there aren't cops around and gangs are in power, like Tyger Claws shaking down person who has a stall in other megabuilding. Cops aren't there and many places, we can actually reflect from these episodes that V's megabuilding is actually on quite good area in Night City.

Same with these two NPC's, their presence and dialogue contributes to suspension of disbelief but at the same time repetition can disrupt that. Could it help if these NPC's wouldn't always be in exact spot? In the area yes, but little variation even if dialogue stays the same? They could have additional dialogue loop too to make it less obvious but I don't think game can track what player's V has already heard, so something could be potentially missed too.
It's not like it's annoying. It's just when it's repeated over and over, that it's going to be noticed. Would be better when they say something else once when you pass by, like LeKill3rFou says.
 
I can imagine that could work. It's a bit difficult to me and this is why is important people come up with their ideas.

For me there are lot's of things, like other pair of cops in food stall at V's megabuilding entrance, older one is lecturing younger one about not to endanger herself and call MaxTac next time they encounter a cyberpsycho. And I have been wondering what's the difference between them and cops near V's apartment, is that a) I often use fast travel point near V's apartment later in game, I don't see cops at the entrance that often and b) in elevator down I usually follow if what's on the news and when exiting my mind is already more or less on task my V's going to do. Task could be a job, or gig or just visiting a ripper doc, but those two cops really don't stand out nearly as much as those near V's apartment.

So I'm sort of poor reference for quality here, but things like you posted about, that's what this topic is about really.
For the two Jig Jig Street NPCs, I would go for an oversight/mistake. Because the cops at V's megabuilding :
- The ones just below V's apartment, they're knocking on the guy's door the first time. They arrest him the second time and no longer appear afterwards.
- And the ones sit at the stand at the bottom of the building, they have been fixed in 1.23 I think. They appear once instead of "for always until the end" before :)
- The same for the crime scene behind coach Fred (and his boxing robot), it appear only one time.

It's the same for plenty of NPCs like the two cops at the AfterLife entrance for the first time after the Heist, or the guy and his daughter near Aaron apartment. All of these "useful" NPCs only appear once.
 
I can imagine that could work. It's a bit difficult to me and this is why is important people come up with their ideas.

For me there are lot's of things, like other pair of cops in food stall at V's megabuilding entrance, older one is lecturing younger one about not to endanger herself and call MaxTac next time they encounter a cyberpsycho. And I have been wondering what's the difference between them and cops near V's apartment, is that a) I often use fast travel point near V's apartment later in game, I don't see cops at the entrance that often and b) in elevator down I usually follow if what's on the news and when exiting my mind is already more or less on task my V's going to do. Task could be a job, or gig or just visiting a ripper doc, but those two cops really don't stand out nearly as much as those near V's apartment.

So I'm sort of poor reference for quality here, but things like you posted about, that's what this topic is about really.
I think the difference between the cops at the entrance and the ones near V's apartment is that, the two at the entrance are on a break, and the ones near V's are busy doing a bust. In essence, both are telling a story, in a spot that would otherwise be empty. If you do that everywhere and nowhere, you'll get a bustling lively sprawling city, that looks and feels like real.
 
They definitely kept appearing for me during my 1.23 run.
Weird, I posted about that in 1.2 Ongoing bug list :(
I will go take a look :D
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They definitely kept appearing for me during my 1.23 run.
My mistake, @cartlidge was totally right, they are only there during the day :(
(Yes, I go rarely to V's apartment and mostly by the garage)
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Weird, I posted about that in 1.2 Ongoing bug list :(
I will go take a look :D
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My mistake, @cartlidge was totally right, they are only there during the day :(
(Yes, I go rarely to V's apartment and mostly by the garage)
View attachment 11258713View attachment 11258716
I'd give it a mighty good chance it's fully intended they are there the whole day, everyday.

As you can see, it's empty during the night when no one's there. All NPC just act as fill up, if you ask me. Imagine them not being there during the day. It would be empty. Not preferable when you want to mimic a lively sprawling city.

Better to repeat an event than nothing happening at all.
 
My mistake, @cartlidge was totally right, they are only there during the day :(
(Yes, I go rarely to V's apartment and mostly by the garage)

I'd give it a mighty good chance it's fully intended they are there the whole day, everyday.

As you can see, it's empty during the night when no one's there. All NPC just act as fill up, if you ask me. Imagine them not being there during the day. It would be empty. Not preferable when you want to mimic a lively sprawling city.

Better to repeat an event than nothing happening at all.
This is still valuable observation, as we it wouldn't be productive towards figuring out better end user experience to include all loops here. First, that would be impossible production and second, it's easy to miss things. There are group kids in V's megabuilding, they have quite interesting chat going on there about how life is in megabuildings and Night City. They are on the left side, at sort of balcony when approaching gym from stairs down. I didn't even remember them from my first playthrough and spotted them again accidentally on my third.
 
Wait, cops arresting that guy is supposed to be a whole scene? I go to the apartment regularly and it's always the same thing, guy lying face down with 2 cops standing next to him. That's all i've ever seen.
 
The dude slapping the chick outside of V's apartment, beyond the cat bowl, respawns every time.
Didn't knew he still kept respawning. Should be easy to fix that once V takes him out of the picture he stays gone for good.
 
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