[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

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Do you want more RPGs with happy endings?


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The endings, to me (and, frankly, it seems very deliberate given that these themes are consistently developed throughout the entire game) are less about whether you die than whether you have lived well.

I mean, that is what the game is about! The soul, the purpose of consciousness, etc.

So if people automatically equate dying with unhappy ending then the point of the game does rather seem to have passed them by!

2077's world is filled with characters who live pointless lives, never do anything about it, and then die. Even if you approach the game in its most utterly basic, Michael Bay-style examination of the issue (Dex and Johnny talking about going out in blazes of glory), the point is made. And it is made with far more sophistication time and again elsewhere.
Honestly if the aim is to 'how you live' then the games does an exceptionally poor job of it. If that's the aim why expend 99.9% of its energy on a 'find a cure' main plot only to pull that rug away at the last second, just give the player the tool to face it. It's endings do an exceptioonally poor job too because they rely on a cheap tacky 'phone call' flag to decide how to rewrite how the main character faces this new plot cancer.
 
Honestly if the aim is to 'how you live' then the games does an exceptionally poor job of it. If that's the aim why expend 99.9% of its energy on a 'find a cure' main plot only to pull that rug away at the last second, just give the player the tool to face it. It's endings do an exceptioonally poor job too because they rely on a cheap tacky 'phone call' flag to decide how to rewrite how the main character faces this new plot cancer.
Yeah the "How you lived part" feels a little uneven if you take the relic corruption plot seriously and try to mainline the plot just to find out your only option available is suicide or Arasaka , and feels weird to have V nearly collapse every other story scene in one scene to then go and have a date with Rogue on the edge of the city or a steal a hover transport with the Aldecados, then finding out that's the way to get the other endings.
 
and feels weird to have V nearly collapse every other story scene in one scene to then go and have a date with Rogue on the edge of the city or a steal a hover transport with the Aldecados, then finding out that's the way to get the other endings.
If I remember when Panam call you for ask help, you have the possibility to say :
"Sorry Panam, I can't. I have more important things to do"

So if you find helping a friend (or not) at this moment because you have to find a cure (or whatever the reason), you can say "no, sorry" > choice.
But indeed, you can't wait for Panam's help at the end. She obviously have "more important thing to do than help you" > consequence of the previous choice.

Exactly like Johnny and "Don't Fear the Reaper" ending. If you don't help him, no way for him to help you...

And about V health, it's "only" regular crysis... Most of the time, V goes fine. Hence the Relic malfunction, it's not all the time ;)
 
If I remember when Panam call you for ask help, you have the possibility to say :
"Sorry Panam, I can't. I have more important things to do"

So if you find helping a friend (or not) at this moment because you have to find a cure (or whatever the reason), you can say "no, sorry" > choice.
But indeed, you can't wait for Panam's help at the end. She obviously have "more important thing to do than help you" > consequence of the previous choice.

Exactly like Johnny and "Don't Fear the Reaper" ending. If you don't help him, no way for him to help you...

And about V health, it's "only" regular crysis... Most of the time, V goes fine. Hence the Relic malfunction, it's not all the time ;)
thing is the game never hints that this is the case(which is a problem) that you can get panam's help or you need to do every single side quest of hers to get it, or that there is a choice to get it .
also it's horrible at telling you that you're 100% cut off from that path if you say you're busy at that moment, even if you were literally willing just had to take care of something you felt was more important. Hell I wanted to be there for scorpion's funeral and I was told it'd be happening "soon" but missed it in my original playthrough due to me getting a call to escort a clown with a grenade for a nose and was shocked to see that notification pop up that I missed it.

So I'd ask, how's it really a consequence if you're not even aware she'd have helped? it's poorly boardcast in the script and game that your choices can really infleuce that much as especially the first few hours kind of rail road you that regardless of how you play, you're still going to see that same cut scene of V getting their own apartment, you're still going to get the flat head and still going to fail getting out of Arasaka without anyone knowing, Jackie and T-bug are going to die and you're still going to end up with a bullet in the head. So to find out that doing side quest chains actually can change the ending, even wiht the Silverhand and V going in solo one (which is vague as hell how to achieve and why they had to highlight it during the 1.3 stream .) and the unmarked side objective of saving Goro to get the less Bleak devil end6(which after being unable to save Jackie, I personally wasn't sure was an option until I saw it was online).


to your last statement this is why I said every story cut scene because it you play the story straight through it looks like V's clock is counting down VEERYY fast & seems like every day they're having some sort of a major attack that leaves them stuck having an attack at a park bench /nearly passing out.
 
thing is the game never hints that this is the case(which is a problem) that you can get panam's help or you need to do every single side quest of hers to get it, or that there is a choice to get it .
It's funny, because it remember something posted by @Didacgomez where "RPGs" must offer choices. But must also explain in advance exactly the consequences of these choices because it's not "fair" to lock content (or whatever) after...
Like punching Fingers who lock his Clinic after, it's really not fair to not explain this fact before punching him (or not) :D

And if I remember, Pawel also explained that is totally intentional. If players don't help anyone and try to "save" V in priority by only following the main quest line, the ending could be the "bad" one.

For V's health, Relic malfunction happen only one time per game day, so about 3/4 hours of IRL gameplay... for me, it's everything except all the times (exept if you skip the time in a row a lot of times. If you don't skip the time, it's still very rare). Moments where V is almost or really knockout are also rares and only during few quests, I think I have enough fingers to count them. So most of the time where you play, V is perfectly fine :)

Hell I wanted to be there for scorpion's funeral and I was told it'd be happening "soon" but missed it in my original playthrough due to me getting a call to escort a clown with a grenade for a nose and was shocked to see that notification pop up that I missed it.
And for Scorpion funeral (I'll fly away), the quest only desapear if you do "The Queen of the Hightway" before doing it, mainly because Aldecaldos camp is moved to another aera (bad idea to return in the previous area). But it still available as long as you don't do this Panam's "end quest".
 
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Honestly if the aim is to 'how you live' then the games does an exceptionally poor job of it. If that's the aim why expend 99.9% of its energy on a 'find a cure' main plot only to pull that rug away at the last second, just give the player the tool to face it. It's endings do an exceptioonally poor job too because they rely on a cheap tacky 'phone call' flag to decide how to rewrite how the main character faces this new plot cancer.
There is considerably more content in the game than the main quest!
 
It's funny, because it remember something posted by @Didacgomez where "RPGs" must offer choices. But must also explain in advance exactly the consequences of these choices because it's not "fair" to lock content (or whatever) after...
Like punching Fingers who lock his Clinic after, it's really not fair to not explain this fact before punching him (or not) :D
It's not that is not fair but kind of like "why would I know that's the only time it's offered" notice I never said it was bad or anything. Fingers I was like "they're really insistent about me punching him tho I need all the information from him I can get to make sure I can find Evelyn and that this isn't a trap", which is what I thought punching him was going to be. however Panam's potential help for the ending journey was poorly broadcast.
And if I remember, Pawel also explained that is totally intentional. If players don't help anyone and try to "save" V in priority by only following the main quest line, the ending could be the "bad" one.
Cool, excpet all of them are bad imo, even the most positive ones is pretty bad and have V dying or dead still.
For V's health, Relic malfunction happen only one time per game day, so about 3/4 hours of IRL gameplay... for me, it's everything except all the times (exept if you skip the time in a row a lot of times. If you don't skip the time, it's still very rare). Moments where V is almost or really knockout are also rares and only during few quests, I think I have enough fingers to count them. So most of the time where you play, V is perfectly fine :)
most of the time you (as in you Lou not the player) play V, if you just run the main quest doing nothing else you'll notice it happens a lot.

And for Scorpion funeral (I'll fly away), the quest only desapear if you do "The Queen of the Hightway" before doing it, mainly because Aldecaldos camp is moved to another aera (bad idea to return in the previous area). But it still available as long as you don't do this Panam's "end quest".
this is where I have to point out The quest is both unmarked and not really considered a quest, just a thing you can do, I say this as someone who still got the 100% achievement "cleared" tho I didn't touch it.
 
It's almost as if it's a computer game!
except some video games, rather great ones too, do give you a time limit to do some things or the narrative will come to an abrupt failure state which requires you to start again . Personal favorite is Shadow of Destiny.

Edit: Of course there's the classic Majora's mask & the newer outer wilds which both explore this, but also make the failure state apart or the process and expected.
 
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Yes. I want to have one happy ending. Breach the Crystal Palace. Tap 'V' for my Cali. Wreak Havoc in there with it! :love:
Seriously.
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In fact, we can skip the happy ending.

Give us Cyberpunk 2078 [or such]. Starting with our fave hero opening their garage, taking their car for a ride, and heading into the new adventure.
 
except some video games, rather great ones too, do give you a time limit to do some things or the narrative will come to an abrupt failure state which requires you to start again . Personal favorite is Shadow of Destiny.

Edit: Of course there's the classic Majora's mask & the newer outer wilds which both explore this, but also make the failure state apart or the process and expected.
Fallout 1 had a 150 in-game days to solve 1 quest or it was game over, guess why it was dropped in Fallout 2? Hordes of people complaining....you can still find people asking for mods to remove that limit in internet forums today.
 
Knowing that, on a meta level, the timer doesn't matter, doesn't change the fact that it's a part of the story and presented as something that you should ostensibly be concerned about.
But that's Skyrim syndrome, Witcher 3 syndrome, many many other games that do what players demand and give you *both* the flexibility to do what you like *and* a main quest with stakes. The world will end when the full moon rises... Unless you want to go flowerpicking in which case it's quite happy to wait.

Yes, they could have phrased Vik's lines better. But if people are completely unprepared to suspend any disbelief at all then you just end up in a situation where a game must be either open world with super bland quests or ultra linear like a Resident Evil game if you want any dramatic tension at all, with nothing in between. And that would be a shame.
 
But that's Skyrim syndrome, Witcher 3 syndrome, many many other games that do what players demand and give you *both* the flexibility to do what you like *and* a main quest with stakes. The world will end when the full moon rises... Unless you want to go flowerpicking in which case it's quite happy to wait.

Yes, they could have phrased Vik's lines better. But if people are completely unprepared to suspend any disbelief at all then you just end up in a situation where a game must be either open world with super bland quests or ultra linear like a Resident Evil game if you want any dramatic tension at all, with nothing in between. And that would be a shame.
The average "oh no shit's happening" game has pressure but is vague enough to not feel constantly applied, until perhaps the final few quests. Who knows when the dragon apocalypse will come. I don't know anything about Witcher, but in FO4, you find out early in the main quest that more time than you expect has already passed, downplaying the important of minute-to-minute time pressure. Of course, the biggest things about most of these games, is that you can address that pressure yourself if you want to, because these kinds of open RPGs typically have main story endings that put you back into the main world instead of a "you died on the way back to your home planet" ending.

Cyberpunk's time pressure is also significantly more personal. There isn't some vague ominous threat at some point in the future, you are being actively unmade, every second that passes. You're reminded that you're in the process of being overwritten during most quests, after most quests, every time Johnny appears, hell randomly walking around in the open world when the relic glitches. It's a uniquely imposing Sword of Damocles whose pressure is made hard to ignore and can never be alleviated because, also unlike many RPGs, it's always going to fall and render everything pointless.
 
Fallout 1 had a 150 in-game days to solve 1 quest or it was game over, guess why it was dropped in Fallout 2? Hordes of people complaining....you can still find people asking for mods to remove that limit in internet forums today.
K and? there's a 3rd option here, have it be a race against the clock until a narrativepoint where it's made clear your character now has more time than they thought or something has changed and now the clock is arbitrary, ya know like how fallout 1 after a certain point narratively has the situation change from just finding the waterchip to the master and that plot line... this could have easily happened in the 2077 plot where V is given something by hellman or takes something Experimental that they kelp or Alt does something with her knowledge and ability to do so and boom, the relic attacks become less frequent though V is assured that the process is still ongoing inside them just they bought themselves more time. It's not a simple A/B switch. I also am a fan of fallout 1 more than 2 narratively but that's neither here nor there.
 
I was disappointed that they completely side-stepped the fact that the moment you jack into Mikoshi, the game should end. This whole magically teleporting consciousness is so stupid. Copying your consciousness doesn't teleport you to that neural network, you just die, and a new, completely separate consciousness with your memories gets created but THAT'S NOT YOU. It's like cut/paste, the original is gone.

That's a matter of interpretation. After all, if it's an exact copy, the copy doesn't know the difference.

From the CP2020 Sourcebook 2nd edition pg 199:

The original Soulkiller started as a matrix to contain artificial personalities. She'd (Alt) studied the concept, worked out the parameters for creating a storage matrix. She'd been facinated and awed to discover that the same matrix could contain living engrams; transfer them to computer from body and even back again. It was immortality.

ITS had taken it from her to build a killer. And she hadn't know how to stop them.
 
From the CP2020 Sourcebook 2nd edition pg 199:

The original Soulkiller started as a matrix to contain artificial personalities. She'd (Alt) studied the concept, worked out the parameters for creating a storage matrix. She'd been facinated and awed to discover that the same matrix could contain living engrams; transfer them to computer from body and even back again. It was immortality.

ITS had taken it from her to build a killer. And she hadn't know how to stop them.

Nothing to do with what I said.
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Fallout 1 had a 150 in-game days to solve 1 quest or it was game over, guess why it was dropped in Fallout 2? Hordes of people complaining....you can still find people asking for mods to remove that limit in internet forums today.

Hordes of people also demand Dark Souls have a story mode. If you remove the day limit, the game makes no sense. If you don't want your game to have time limits then you could just... not write it to have a time limit? Crazy, I know.
 
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There is considerably more content in the game than the main quest!
and vast majority of that content is go here.. shoot/incapacitate people quests.

so the story of ho you lived is... violently/murder people thumbs up.
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But that's Skyrim syndrome, Witcher 3 syndrome, many many other games that do what players demand and give you *both* the flexibility to do what you like *and* a main quest with stakes. The world will end when the full moon rises... Unless you want to go flowerpicking in which case it's quite happy to wait.

Yes, they could have phrased Vik's lines better. But if people are completely unprepared to suspend any disbelief at all then you just end up in a situation where a game must be either open world with super bland quests or ultra linear like a Resident Evil game if you want any dramatic tension at all, with nothing in between. And that would be a shame.
Well written there should be zero or very little suspension of disbelief.

Fallout 3: Find your dad. not imminent, but a motivator
Fallout 4: (got criticized many places with a hurry hurry find your son! but then it not mattering and being ignored many places)
W3: find siri... but isn't she'll die in weeks and no idea where she is.. hence having to go all over to multiple places to look (i.e. encouraged to explore and go to areas..) no dire ticking clock - a motivator.. strong one.. not a must find her in X weeks clock.
RDR2: ticking clock to death is revealed later in game.. and is a slow burn.. not imminent.. but coming
Mass Effect 1: mostly find rogue agent.. THEN later turns into some threat from reapers.. and only near the end is it.. omg must act now hurry...
ME2: important mission but in large part investigatory and not a universe end in X days but instead going after , in time when find out, allies of reapers
ME3: heavily criticized for its millions/billions dying daily ticking clock but it not mattering at all
FO:NV: no big ticking clock... have desire to resolve who off'd you and why and situation with the factions

See the pattern?

Most require no or little suspending disbelief. The ones that muck it up.... history remembers less fondly.

VS.
Weeks to live (at max!!)
reminded over and over your brain being rewritten at an alarming rate
every story quest has one or more fall down lose control of body as youre in that bad a shape.. not simple cough or feel bad, not some blurred vision.. but literal fall down on ground and have cardiac event

all of that motivates normal humans to go.. hey need to resolve this ASAP!!!!! especially as it isnt done with a macabre.. you have X weeks/month to live and its going to fail and no hope but make the best of your time as it is. With that simple change.. wont end well.. enjoy the time you have. the entire player motivation changes to the world and doing as you want with the time you have.

But no... its entirely.. main quest and many side quests reinforce and reinforce the .. hurry.. must find cure.. youre losing percentages of your brain every.. single.. day

" But if people are completely unprepared to suspend any disbelief at all then you just end up in a situation where a game must be either open world with super bland quests or ultra linear like a Resident Evil game"
FO3 does it... FO:NV does it... RDR2 does it... W3 does it... ME1 does it.... ME2 does it...
no - you dont have to have a binary URGENT ticking clock vs totally linear game... its been done .. and done WELL numerous times
 
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Does V actually die if they stay before the point-of-no-return for long enough?

I didn't ever need long enough to hit that limit. Quests run out much quicker. I end up in an endless cycle of harassing gangs and the police. An absolute menace. Just look at what's left of Adam Smasher... ! I guess everyone would breathe easier if the game allowed me to go to the Crystal Palace and harass them a bit for a change.

Just gimme the real bad folks, and I will leave the poor Maelstrom and the police and stuff alone.
 
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