Competitive ruling: wangid2021

+
they have sufficient evidence that there are abnormal wintrades happening on his account
Is this his problem? I mean, CDPR can't develop a system that prevents wintrade shenanigans. Why that should be a player concern?
Everyone can snipe a player and forfeit.
I have no evidence (like CDPR), but what if it was TLG's agents? Because their (TLG's) activity around the situation looks abnormally to me. :coolstory:
Post automatically merged:

But even if, it doesn't acquit Wangid in this situation
Why?
 
Last edited:
I really doubt if someone would report this kind of abnormal forfeit if it happens only once in around 30 games.
Deducing points is absolutely ok. However, why not only deduce the points gained by these abnormal matches? It's the most obvious way, isn't it?
 
I really doubt if someone would report this kind of abnormal forfeit if it happens only once in around 30 games.
If I understand correctly, it happend at the end of the season.
(Please read the full post)
 
Last edited:

rrc

Forum veteran
I have no evidence (like CDPR), but what if it was TLG's agents? Because their (TLG's) activity around the situation looks abnormally to me. :coolstory:
Well, as a strict personal policy, I don't believe in conspiracy theories. We can never know if it was done by TLG or anyone who want to remove Wangid. IMHO, it is a far fetched idea. But what I do know is, there is just soooo much politics behind these Gwent E-Sports which is kind of leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

Even in that Bushy's YouTube video I shared, it is quite evident that people from a team or region keep spying on others. Wangid had a follow up post saying that his friends from Chinese community was constantly monitoring Cyberz at 5 AM on their time and then saw he got 2 wins in quick session. I mean.. it felt horrible and pathetic to know that these kind of activities go in the background. Same is the case when Shaggy and Cyberz spied on Wangid's Stream hours and hours to find the abnormal activities.

I honestly thought Gwent esports would be a gentle-person thingy, but these politics/cheating is very disappointing. I mean, the prize money is not even that huge and even then there is this much politics. If the prize money is going to be raised, I think all these things would become even more and severe. I will watch Masters at least 15+ hours (as much as I can hold on my sleep), but this would be the first time I will have a negative feeling towards the tournament due to the amount of politics that has gone in the background.
 
I get what you mean, but how do you recognize the situation? You have to analyze your games on air just via feelings, or what?
It was the same player who repeatedly soft-played and forfeited against Wangid. CDPR has analysed those matches, which is why player 五花瞟 (not PorkBelly) got banned in the first place.
 
If I understand correctly, it happend at the end of the season.
(Please read the full post)
Without enough information given, I cannot decide how many forfeits at the end of the season. It didn't say all these 3.7% happened among the last several days. From Wangid's post, he did notice but didn't think it happened that frequently.
 
So, when I enter some game, see some annoying deck, forfeit instantly or after several turns (because of bad balancing), it is the reason to suspect my opponent of cheating?
I assume it's mainly relevant on high Pro Rank competitive scene, but considering that competitive Players also seem to queue into 2400 Players if there aren't enough high Rank Players around it's still a bit problematic.

If they are really that strict about forfeits on Pro Rank they might should consider bringing de-ranking back to make Pro Rank a bit of a more exclusive Place again (maybe put the Pro Rank drop outs on Rank one instead of three on season end) and make stuff like this more clear in the rules.

Because right now it has become way to easy reaching Pro Rank with no further punishment for loses after loosing the final Mosaic piece, some Players are even saying that they use a Meta Deck to reach Pro as quickly as possible and afterwards drop down to 2300 MMR intentionally to reach Meme chill Zone, not sure if this is really the point of heaving a competitive Pro Rank if there are tons of Player's in it that don't intend to play competitive.

(because of bad balancing
Additionally to that the Game is becoming more and more binary, i mean there isn't much of a Point playing the entire match if you for example queue with a hyperthin Deck into a Mill Deck or if you don't have a answer to certain Cards.
 
Since o well... I like to give my two cents, too. Or rather three

First: This is not a legal investigation nor a court room. Like Bushy in his video explained there are totally different standarts to match. It is a (e)Sports event so the first goal is not to rule just and fair. The upmost important goal is to keep the integrety of the event. Suspicious activitys have to be punished even if they only can accuse one of profiting and not having any evidence of part taking. CDPR did not need to "proof" anything if they have enough reason to belive a high enough number of games were irregular.

Second: This is a very very bad ruling (again imho). And here is why: CDPR had clear enough reason to intervene, but seem not to have any even the slightest proof of wangid playing a part in it, they only know that he was profiting from it. So, what do they do? They choose a practical solution by deleting the percentage of mmr equal to the percentage of irregular games found. Totally disregarding the 9600 base "ZERO" mmr.
AND even worse this a exactly enough to kick wangid out of master. WHat if he had like a 100 mmr more? what if he would have been nr1 with a lead of 500mmr what if he had already lost his spot because someone else made more mmr.

I think CDPR opens them self a big dangerous situation where you could accuse them of unconsistend ruling.

In situations like that have have to protect your integrety as a neutral sport event:
Option 1: just disqullify him and say you're sorry because any irregularity found leads to disqullification. Wether activly involved or only passivly.
Option 2: delete all games and scores of the "guilty" accound. Delete all mmr won and lost by other players who played against this accound that season. So everyone is treated equal.

Ther are terms of agreement, pro rank regulation, all the usual stuff when participating in tournamets.

Third: Keeping face: Wangid has proven himself to be one of the best gwent players outthere a couple of times. He himself is in the open and has to protect himself and also to be careful. If he persives an unusual amount of softplayes and forfeits he has to be aware of his position and report it. Just to be save! CDPR on the other hand has the much much more reputation to lose, i'm sorry to all of you who feel wangid is treated unfair but i understand that there is more on the stakes but the (big and active) CN community. If CDPR let only one shady thing slide they can through the whole tournament in the bin.
 
Honestly though, why should someone go to the qualifiers if nearly 4% of their SR was from insta leavers? All CDPR did was making Wang's SR match other players with similar forfeit rates, and adjust the SR to match it. This makes sense and Wang is treated exactly like every other player.

Even if it was an accident, it's still just making Wang's SR resemble everyone else's based on similar forfeit rates. I think this was a really good decision and prevents anyone from cheesing the system, but even without cheese it means that the players who go to qualifiers actually deserve to be there based on REAL GAMES ACTUALLY PLAYED, and not simply getting lucky to a bunch of insta forfeits. (4% is extremely lucky btw, extremely suspect)

The best defense Wang provided:

"Third, my total MMR at the end of season Dryad is 10805, including the 9600 base MMR. I have gained 1205 points through 675 games on pro-ladder. If indeed 3.7% of my games are problematic, I am willing to have the corresponding MMR deducted for fairness to other competitive players. But that should be 125-150 points instead of 400. I can’t really understand how the amount 400 is reasonably calculated, and I find it harder to believe that the proposed deduction reduced my crown points to 240, just 2-4 points below the invitation bar to World Masters S3. Again, I accept the deduction of crown points that should not belong to me, but I believe I’ve been excessively punished since I didn’t plan the problematic games or collude with anyone."

If this is true, and the math is wrong, then it should be fixed. But the principles are solid here. Even if Wang got ridiculously luck with insta leavers, and I guess anything is possible, then it should not allow him to go to the big tourney's based on that kind of cheese. However, if the 4% reduction in Wang's SR was in fact more than 4%, then Wang has a true complaint here.

I don't know how SR is calculated exactly, and I assume CDPR reduced it fair and square, but if they did not then that shows malicious intent and would require an apology from CDPR.
 
Last edited:
Well, Monday is here. Guy remains silent. Probably there is no smoke without fire.
Dude. Wangid did appeal the decision, stating that he is fine with deducting the points he doesn't deserve, but he thinks this punishment is unreasonably hard because he did not "collude" with others or cheating in any aspect. CDPR responsed that
1. Happy to see that you know what is going on.
2. We can't share how we made the decision of deducting 400 points. According to the Pro-ladder rules, we can deduct as many points as we want.
3. You are not cheating, but we just think you violated the cheating rules.
4. Any decision is final. Good bye.

I mean, you can think whatever you want and take whatever side, but you cannot say he is silent.
Post automatically merged:

As far as I know, Wangid has not been show any "evidence" to himself neither, so he wrote that letter to CDPR and community.
How do you show that you are not colluding with other? Like, sharing all your contact information and past messages?
 
Last edited:
Third: Keeping face: Wangid has proven himself to be one of the best gwent players outthere a couple of times. He himself is in the open and has to protect himself and also to be careful. If he persives an unusual amount of softplayes and forfeits he has to be aware of his position and report it. Just to be save! CDPR on the other hand has the much much more reputation to lose, i'm sorry to all of you who feel wangid is treated unfair but i understand that there is more on the stakes but the (big and active) CN community. If CDPR let only one shady thing slide they can through the whole tournament in the bin.
To be honest, nothing matters now, as you already know the "final decision" has been made, and as such "thing" happened third time[Hana, 五花 and wangid]. CN community was angry and feel dishonored[I think just like how we feel honored when we saw Marcin make video for us about crimson curse but this time in opposite way. For that moment, we know that they care, about us. But now, we know they DONT] For now, most content creator about gwent in CN community decide to quit and start to talk about "let try LOR, Kards" such thing, the community was like the same. People a leaving, that it, the damage has been made.
Whatever, I quite like your point of view, so good luck with your next game and hope you have a nice day.
BTW, do you know that TLG already know that "case was close" even before CDPR make any ano?Interesting right[1]
[1]https://www.iyingdi.com/tz/post/5151507
 
How do you show that you are not colluding with other? Like, sharing all your contact information and past messages?
I mean CDPR did not show any "evidence" to Wangid neither, so he wrote that letter.

Sorry for misleading. I will make a edit on that.
 
Last edited:
To be honest, nothing matters now, as you already know the "final decision" has been made, and as such "thing" happened third time[Hana, 五花 and wangid]. CN community was angry and feel dishonored[I think just like how we feel honored when we saw Marcin make video for us about crimson curse but this time in opposite way. For that moment, we know that they care, about us. But now, we know they DONT] For now, most content creator about gwent in CN community decide to quit and start to talk about "let try LOR, Kards" such thing, the community was like the same. People a leaving, that it, the damage has been made.
Whatever, I quite like your point of view, so good luck with your next game and hope you have a nice day.
BTW, do you know that TLG already know that "case was close" even before CDPR make any ano?Interesting right[1]
[1]https://www.iyingdi.com/tz/post/5151507
Well its really hard to not coment about CN comunnity while every single new post there is someone saying "about CN omunity".

Well, let me tell one thing. Wangid was punished because he cheated or something like thar (yeah yeah, i know, CDPR dont have prove he conluide in the cheating or did wintrading, but everyone knows there were abnormal matches and the only gamer who "wins" with those abnormal matches was wangid).

So CDPR punished a cheater (or what you wwant to call him, for me it doenst matter if it was intentional or not). CDPR didnt punished a chinese guy, CDPR dindt punished Wangid because he is Chinese.

What the CN comunnity its trying to say for the rest of the world is "we have a huge base player, so if CDPR dont follow our rules, we will abandon the game and they will lost money".

So what CN comunity its doing its defending a cheater (or, again, whatever you want to call it) only because he is Chinese, that is wrong.

Lets try to imagine the contrary, another player cheated (or did abnormal games bla bla bla) and passed wangid (and in this imaginary case, wangid didnt have those abnormal matches). The CN would like that? The CN comunity will want to the cheater player be punished for his "trick"?

Well, if you (and any other player who is thinking to abandon the game) answer no for the first question and yes for the second will understant what happens here and why wangid needs to be punished.

For the rest - CDPR doesnt have prove he conlued for the wintrades - that has already be explained in this topic
 
Lets try to imagine the contrary, another player cheated (or did abnormal games bla bla bla) and passed wangid (and in this imaginary case, wangid didnt have those abnormal matches). The CN would like that? The CN comunity will want to the cheater player be punished for his "trick"?
From the logic, I can't argue with you for it.
But the fact is CN GWENT community is deeply hurt by this event. And normal player like me not able and not willing to well play GWENT anymore. So I feel sorry for everyone including myself.
----------------------
"Never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
it tolls for thee."
 
Last edited:

rrc

Forum veteran
Well its really hard to not coment about CN comunnity while every single new post there is someone saying "about CN omunity".

Well, let me tell one thing. Wangid was punished because he cheated or something like thar (yeah yeah, i know, CDPR dont have prove he conluide in the cheating or did wintrading, but everyone knows there were abnormal matches and the only gamer who "wins" with those abnormal matches was wangid).

So CDPR punished a cheater (or what you wwant to call him, for me it doenst matter if it was intentional or not). CDPR didnt punished a chinese guy, CDPR dindt punished Wangid because he is Chinese.

What the CN comunnity its trying to say for the rest of the world is "we have a huge base player, so if CDPR dont follow our rules, we will abandon the game and they will lost money".

So what CN comunity its doing its defending a cheater (or, again, whatever you want to call it) only because he is Chinese, that is wrong.

Lets try to imagine the contrary, another player cheated (or did abnormal games bla bla bla) and passed wangid (and in this imaginary case, wangid didnt have those abnormal matches). The CN would like that? The CN comunity will want to the cheater player be punished for his "trick"?

Well, if you (and any other player who is thinking to abandon the game) answer no for the first question and yes for the second will understant what happens here and why wangid needs to be punished.

For the rest - CDPR doesnt have prove he conlued for the wintrades - that has already be explained in this topic
Really REALLY well said. Spoken like a true lawyer!! The whole point of bringing the CN community into the picture and talking as though CDPR punished him only because he was from CN is ridiculous. As I told in my very first comment on this topic, CDPR definitely would know that this is going to affect a lot on their revenue as CN would be one of the biggest revenue generator and still they did it to show and prove that the integrity of the game matters more than the viewership and revenue.

Trying to bully CDPR saying "we have huge base.. we will leave you unless you Wangid is cleared of his name" is really bad. As I said in my first statement, I respect CDPR for taking the hit to prove the integrity of the esports scene. At the same time, I want CDPR to proactively take measures on top 64 or top 200 in every season to make sure there is no abnormal activities.

We saw the same thing playing out with ProNeo was banned. Most of the comments on the post and on the Twitch Chat in tournaments were like "CDPR hates Russia" bla bla bla.. They were also posting comments saying you would lose all revenue from CIS etc. Relentless review bombing, bullying happened, but it all subsided and players from CIS are now in the tournaments regularly. One person is not the whole community. Punishing one person doesn't mean CDPR punishes the whole community. It is just one player. I sincerely wish people realise that.

Also, I hope CN players keep competing and joining the future tournaments to represent CN community. They had always been one of the most respected and great players (like Demarcation, Wangid, LordTriss).
 
Top Bottom