Is Cyberpunk 2077 the most dissapointing game of 2020? POLL

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Is Cyberpunk 2077 the most dissapointing game of 2020

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  • No


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The break in logic is too big.
This logical problem mostly exist in all games. In cyberpunk 2077 every problem is to much in your face.
Anyway, I can see two points who, in my opinion are very obvious and totally indiscutable :
Cyberpunk is definitely a game for me and always will be, whatever CDPR could do.
Cyberpunk is definitely not a game for you and never will be, whatever CDPR could do.

It's the only conclusions that I'm sure (or almost) :)
 
Any movie critic would say a bad paced, rushed plot is objectively bad.
There are some objective things critics look when examining a cinematic experience.
They don't just tell their subjective opinion.

Argument from single experience is a fallacious argument.
Points of objectivity aside (the reception of art is subjective, full stop, and if people can't handle that and think there is one way to do art, they need to travel a bit more, watch films that were "objectively good" 100 years ago, or, say, read Naked Lunch and have an existential crisis as their idea of the objective way a novel must be collapses. And good luck with Dadaism.)...

I think the problem with saying the main story plot is "rushed" is that it entirely depends on how the game has been played by the player. I didn't rush the main quest because I'm used to false urgency in these kinds of games. It's pretty standard for the genre and one of the tradeoffs if you want to combine a story that has any tension with a game that gives player choice.

Think Elder Scrolls Oblivion "hell is invading but, by all means, go eat some cakes and wander around inside a painting" or Witcher "your daughter is in grave danger and you must find her right now but why not pick some flowers and kill a random beastie and play a card game."

I think there was a single, major error in the storytelling which was for Vic to tell you that you've got days and it's super urgent you deal with your affliction. That could have been remedied by simply saying I don't know when it'll get urgent, could be a day, could be a year, but you'll know when it is, and then using Embers as the trigger point of "OK now it's urgent and you must do something".

But if you play the side quests, if you explore, the amount of content in the game is significant, and much of that is very meaty sidequests.

It doesn't feel rushed at all unless you only do the main quest on its own. Which, I can only assume, was not how the developers intended the game to be played. Indeed, it's a plain bad way to play the game because you lose all the narrative and philosophical colour that's been thrown everywhere on questions of consciousness and agency, the happy and hopeful stories that nuance V's own experience, and the atmosphere and sense of place/grounding you get by exploring the world. If they'd meant it to be played that way, moreover, certain endings would not be locked off if you only do the bare bones main quest.

Cyberpunk has the most well-integrated set of narratives I've ever seen in a computer game. Virtually all the side content has something to say about the game's philosophical preoccupations rather than just being random, disconnected stories. I have never, ever seen a non-linear game even attempt that level of narrative coherence before so I think it's a shame that people aren't approaching the full game as a unified narrative. It's quite telling that some players dismiss the game's plot as "little man versus corporations" while to other people who have played it differently it would not even occur to them that that was the game's theme because it focuses so much on higher questions.

So if there was one change they could make after the event to dialogue, I would love to see them change that dialogue with Vic with which they seem, for some players, to have shot themselves in the foot. To some players, it seems to be getting interpreted as "you *must* rush the main quest", rather than "you *may* rush the main quest if you're really busy and don't really have time to play the whole game".
 
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There is a big distinction between searching someone who could take months years and something as urgent as few weeks which implies not finding someone but your own existence.
The break in logic is too big.
This logical problem mostly exist in all games. In cyberpunk 2077 every problem is to much in your face. Everything about the game breaks immersion.
Cyberpunk 2077 was hyped as next gen RPG. New standard in gameplay and tech side.
Witcher 3 is old and was not hyped as the next wonder in tech and gameplay mechanics.

Cyberpunk 2077 story would have worked as linear game pursuing the main story.
To me the game allows, narratively, to create and experience different playthroughs by allowing freedom of choice in the order we do missions for example. As northwold pointed out, all these story pieces are very coherent and can be mixed and mashed how to play them and this creates a replay value for me, aswell as I find this approach very unique and enjoyable. A linear story, imagining they tie in the sidequests and player is only free to drive around plus blue missions, would still be a good game but it would lose what is the most special about it in my opinion.
When you say "every problem is too much in your face" I felt something similar, about the urgency, but more on the every call and mission popping up very close together. That was what got me the feeling of urgency for me, mostly. That and Vik, indeed.
 
Because the story of Cyberpunk 2077 isn't about you and Jackie becoming Night City legends, but about the Relic. You cant wait for 15 hours to introduce the central premise. That would be the bad writing.

Well, I can and I wanted...have the chance to get attached and miss jackie, (which is what happens to v) as well as experience fantastic gigs with him that would create unique memories and anecdotes in my mind. Other than that I find the main quest ridiculously short, regardless all this "Jackie thing", in fact, I feel exactly the same for Evelin, voodoo boys etc. ...(and I also wanted more Misty and mama...:p)
What is bad writhing it's personal opionion, included this one, of course, but fot me the plot of this game has been savagely brutalized for deadlines, I will NEVER believe that this was the main story as intended from the beginning, never-ever, no matter what cdp say.
 
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Well, I can and I wanted...have the chance to get attached and miss jackie, (which is what happens to v) as well as experience fantastic gigs with him that would create unique memories and anecdotes in my mind. Other than that I find the main quest ridiculously short, regardless all this "Jackie thing", in fact, I feel exactly the same for Evelin, voodoo boys etc. ...(and I also wanted more Misty and mama...:p)
What is bad writhing it's personal opionion, included this one, of course, but fot me the plot of this game has been savagely brutalized for deadlines, I will NEVER believe that this was the main story as intended from the beginning, never-ever, no matter what cdp say.
I understand, but all I can say is that I had no problem feeling what the writers wanted me to feel during any of the scenes with Jackie.
- conversations between him and V were written convincingly enough to convey close friendship
- he's probably the only decent person we meet in Act 1
- I hate bringing up FPP here, but I kinda have to: watching his face from close distance as life slips away from him makes the scene much more impactful
I don't think anything that happens in Act 2 require more Jackie to work. It's not dealing with V grieving over his death, being traumatized, etc... This isn't ME3 situation with Shepard and kid from Vancouver.
As for the rest, you said that nothing could convince that the story is not drastically altered, so there's nothing for me to add. :shrug:
 
I don't understand this argument that the story was altered. Like in every damn game that was ever developed?
Major story outline can't be changed to meet some deadline late into development of a massive and complex game like CP77. It had to be greenlit for at least 2-3 years (out of 4 of active development in case of CP77). If there was a different story treatment, it was discarded years ago.
Smaller elements of the story are tossed around constantly through the whole cycle of development.

I also felt like there was enough of Jackie. I didn't need a lengthy GTA-style prologue about two bros going up criminal ranks.
 

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I don't understand this argument that the story was altered. Like in every damn game that was ever developed?
Major story outline can't be changed to meet some deadline late into development of a massive and complex game like CP77. It had to be greenlit for at least 2-3 years (out of 4 of active development in case of CP77). If there was a different story treatment, it was discarded years ago.
Smaller elements of the story are tossed around constantly through the whole cycle of development.
Not sure if you're aware of it, but there's a reddit theory concerning Cyberpunk 2077 and complete rewrite of its story in 2019, claiming that the main plot was intended to be about two bros going up criminal ranks but then Keanu Reeves asked for Johnny Silverhand to have bigger presence in the main story for which CDPR complied so they could make the game more marketable or something. o_O
It's mindbogglingly silly, but there you have it...
 
Not sure if you're aware of it, but there's a reddit theory concerning Cyberpunk 2077 and complete rewrite of its story in 2019, claiming that the main plot was intended to be about two bros going up criminal ranks but then Keanu Reeves asked for Johnny Silverhand to have bigger presence in the main story for which CDPR complied so they could make the game more marketable or something. o_O
It's mindbogglingly silly, but there you have it...
Not sure on the Keanu angle.... sounds a bit tinfoil hat to me!

It does however seem there was a reworking and Takemura was a late addition to the game. Philip Weber talked about it in Pawel Sasko's twitch stream. Apparently whatever the original plot lines were, there was an issue and it was too complicated to implement and wasn't working (he didn't go into too much detail as to why) but the implication seemed to be that they weren't happy with how the story was so they added in the whole parade storyline late on.

I wondered if it was the Dec 2020 deadline and the complications of the pandemic and the pressure to make the story shorter than witcher 3

IMHO if it is last minute work then the character & quest team did an awesome job, the build up to the parade and the Johnny falling off a wall cutscene are some of my favourite bits of the game.
 
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Not sure if you're aware of it, but there's a reddit theory concerning Cyberpunk 2077 and complete rewrite of its story in 2019, claiming that the main plot was intended to be about two bros going up criminal ranks but then Keanu Reeves asked for Johnny Silverhand to have bigger presence in the main story for which CDPR complied so they could make the game more marketable or something. o_O
It's mindbogglingly silly, but there you have it...
Yeah, I heard about it.



As I said earlier, some elements get added or removed from a story as development progresses. But with so many cinematics, cutscenes, recorded performances, they had to settle on major things LOOOONG before deadline. I 100% believe CDPR when they say that the intro montage was there from the beginning. Well, at least since the beginning of active development in 2015-2016.
 
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Yes I don't believe there was a rewrite of tge whole story either in 2019 but I believe that as far back as 2018 they were more ambitious on what they pretended on Vs character development. On the 2018 vision demo the character creator had this menu in the image which makes me think perhaps the engram on the relic might change or at least there this menu makes me understand more emphazes was to be had on character build with choices that creates different Vs. And at a certain stage many branches had to be cut down including only one engram. From all the info around I tend to believe the most on unofficial, mostly anonymous reports from devs and ex-decs and so I believe (because it's a hard thing to do mostly) there was a very rocky development with growing teams and whatnot but I don't believe in a "let's change everything around because Keanu, because more money" situation. They were available solutions for the way the work was done and goals that had to be achieved.
That's only my very general belief.
 

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Yes I don't believe there was a rewrite of tge whole story either in 2019 but I believe that as far back as 2018 they were more ambitious on what they pretended on Vs character development. On the 2018 vision demo the character creator had this menu in the image which makes me think perhaps the engram on the relic might change or at least there this menu makes me understand more emphazes was to be had on character build with choices that creates different Vs. And at a certain stage many branches had to be cut down including only one engram. From all the info around I tend to believe the most on unofficial, mostly anonymous reports from devs and ex-decs and so I believe (because it's a hard thing to do mostly) there was a very rocky development with growing teams and whatnot but I don't believe in a "let's change everything around because Keanu, because more money" situation. They were available solutions for the way the work was done and goals that had to be achieved.
That's only my very general belief.
When I see tis "old" CC, there is one thing which is obvious, at this time, there is no Nomad background at all :)
I can suppose two things (which like always remain my own opinion) :
- Either CDPR redid all and make background less important as it was planned, which is possible, for whatever reasons.
- Either at this time, backgournd stories were, like in Mass Effect even less important in the game (almost useless) and CDPR finally decided to make it a little bit more "important".
 

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- Either at this time, backgournd stories were, like in Mass Effect even less important in the game (almost useless) and CDPR finally decided to make it a little bit more "important".
That's what it looked to me back in 2018. I compared it to pre-service history and psych profile from ME1. What they ended up having is a system similar to origin choice from DAO.
I don't see how the original version could have been more impactful than the one we got in the end, unless the choice of childhood hero would have affected which person's engram will be stored on the Relic. But, this would make it almost impossible for the game to have coherent story.
 
Anyway, I can see two points who, in my opinion are very obvious and totally indiscutable :
Cyberpunk is definitely a game for me and always will be, whatever CDPR could do.
Cyberpunk is definitely not a game for you and never will be, whatever CDPR could do.

It's the only conclusions that I'm sure (or almost) :)

That is just wrong. I have been lurking here a while and this is a stance that is just wrong. That another poster expresses discontent with anything related to CP2077, minor/major, would never have liked the game.

I like Cyberpunk quite a bit. Many things in there I do not. Like most games I must add. Some good, some bad.

You even said "always will be, whatever CDPR could do." Did you mean that you will love the game whatever they do, or whatever they would have done, you would have liked it regardless?

In any case, most posters here seem nuanced enough to not warrant the "hater, whatever they would have done, you would criticize." That is quite the strawman argument, don't you think?
 
Yes I don't believe there was a rewrite of tge whole story either in 2019 but I believe that as far back as 2018 they were more ambitious on what they pretended on Vs character development. On the 2018 vision demo the character creator had this menu in the image which makes me think perhaps the engram on the relic might change or at least there this menu makes me understand more emphazes was to be had on character build with choices that creates different Vs. And at a certain stage many branches had to be cut down including only one engram. From all the info around I tend to believe the most on unofficial, mostly anonymous reports from devs and ex-decs and so I believe (because it's a hard thing to do mostly) there was a very rocky development with growing teams and whatnot but I don't believe in a "let's change everything around because Keanu, because more money" situation. They were available solutions for the way the work was done and goals that had to be achieved.
That's only my very general belief.
This is interesting as all fuck, wish we would have gotten this. Childhood hero, key moment in life, reason to go to NC, this was some dope origins/pre-service history component :ok:

It's a real shame this game was not as polished (and finished) as it deserved :giveup:
 
This is interesting as all fuck, wish we would have gotten this. Childhood hero, key moment in life, reason to go to NC, this was some dope origins/pre-service history component :ok:

It's a real shame this game was not as polished (and finished) as it deserved :giveup:
I don't think any game would reach that level because you would be talking about the same amount of work as effectively creating three different games. And that is probably why it couldn't happen. It's simply not realistic and would take a decade!

I think this is where people got carried away with their fantasies about life paths as well. If it was really going to be three completely different stories with different environments, the amount of work necessary to achieve that would be off the scale (yes, Witcher 2 did it, but I can think of literally no other example on that scale).
 
I don't think any game would reach that level because you would be talking about the same amount of work as effectively creating three different games. And that is probably why it couldn't happen. It's simply not realistic and would take a decade!

I think this is where people got carried away with their fantasies about life paths as well. If it was really going to be three completely different stories with different environments, the amount of work necessary to achieve that would be off the scale (yes, Witcher 2 did it, but I can think of literally no other example on that scale).
I don't imagine 3 completelly different stories but within the same story, different variants that mostly separates Vs attitudes. If the engram could be chosen from those 3 characters for example, I imagine a main story being similar with 3 different perspectives on it. Yes more branching in some cases would be required but not a completely different main story
 
Most dissapointing game, does not mean worse game. There were many games in 2020 that are worse. But my questions stands, with everything that has happened, and the launch that happened etc etc. Do you feel cyberpunk 2077 is the most dissapointing game of 2020?

For me personally it is a yes. The state of this game and the missing contents makes it to me the most dissapointing game of 2020.

Please share your thoughts and have a happy new year!

Because it wasn't your girlfriend/solved your depression/gave you backrubs? Get real. Cyberpunk is awesome.
 
Because it wasn't your girlfriend/solved your depression/gave you backrubs?
:ohstopit:
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I don't think any game would reach that level because you would be talking about the same amount of work as effectively creating three different games. And that is probably why it couldn't happen. It's simply not realistic and would take a decade!

I think this is where people got carried away with their fantasies about life paths as well. If it was really going to be three completely different stories with different environments, the amount of work necessary to achieve that would be off the scale (yes, Witcher 2 did it, but I can think of literally no other example on that scale).
Well I was thinking more like what GogRelvas says, something akin to ME origin stories that just alter some dialogue/secondary missions while keeping the same main plot regardless of your choice, BUT Cyberpunk being given the TW2 treatment would have been :ok:
 
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