Not badly reasoned, I admit, BUT the Northmen are caucasian and the Dornish are dark-skinned, it's just the way it goes, and that is part of their respective cultural identities
. Same for the realms of the North/Nilfgaard/Skellige and Zerrikania
. Same for the realms of the North/Nilfgaard/Skellige and Zerrikania
Well we know now that skin colour is related to climate over time. It's been proven that if you take a caucasian neighbourhood and move them to Africa, and they don't have intercourse with anyone outside that group, it takes 7 or 10 (I don't remember well) generations for the neighbourhood to become black.
So in a way if we have, in a fictional setting, a lot of multiracial areas it is implied that in this world there are big migration movements; in the Witcher I didn't read the books so I'm not sure how the conjunction of the spheres worked (did it bring humans from all the human world and spread them in this new world randomly (...?)
But all this to say, nowadays the representation and forced diversity has taken over all other reflections on the matter. We are all humans so we can relate to characters of a different race, gender, sexual orientation,...
So in a way if we have, in a fictional setting, a lot of multiracial areas it is implied that in this world there are big migration movements; in the Witcher I didn't read the books so I'm not sure how the conjunction of the spheres worked (did it bring humans from all the human world and spread them in this new world randomly (...?)
But all this to say, nowadays the representation and forced diversity has taken over all other reflections on the matter. We are all humans so we can relate to characters of a different race, gender, sexual orientation,...
This French mentality is only a thing in the modern age. It is very recent. It was not the case back in Medieval France. Medieval France was more into Crusades and stuff rather than extolling Republican values. Just saying.
Incidental or not, it was a fact. It was the reality of those times. Why twist it for whatever modern agenda? With all its pros and cons, I don't see any reason why we need to be ashamed or even attempt to alter the past.
You were also French, German, English or Welsh based on skin pigmentation as well as based on other criteria. Language, religion, social standing were also elements that decided what nationality you were. Keep in mind that the peasantry until modern times was not regarded as part of the nation. This came much later on. The nation was the nobility, the royalty, clerics and sometimes the merchant class if they were powerful enough to exercise influence on the first 3. Needless to say, those of black skin color, in the perception of Europeans were seen as slaves or servants back then. From a religious perspective many perceived them as devils too. They were not seen as part of the nation. Most European nations did not have proper contact with other races until the last 200 years.
Maybe for you it doesn't make any difference, but for everyone who knows a thing or two about Elves it does. Elves are a product of Germanic mythology and folklore. The reason why they are portrayed as white is because of this.
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Well yeah, the game counterpart is the best. The actress portraying Fringilla was decent. She was out of place too, for obvious reasons, but she wasn't BAD. The one portraying Neneke though was cringe. Was thinking of skipping her dialogue every time she popped up. If you're gonna do force diversity, at least put a decent actor.Agree completely save for the Fringilla bit. I do prefer the game counterpart
The guard being Hissrich and Jaskier being Sapkowski, contrary to what she'll have us believe
Nation, ethnicity and race are purely mental constructions. Race only has any relevance for the first two if the culture in question believes it does. The second part of your post here is generally (always?) why. The culture in question views people of one pigmentation as superior to another and "worthy" of the cultural designation. Others are viewed as less than.
Keep in mind challenging this was never to suggest past cultures didn't view skin pigmentation as relevant. It was more to suggest those views don't necessarily need to be preserved to sufficiently depict the fantasy equilvalents of those historical cultures. Assuming the fantasy versions were even intended to be exactly equivalent to the "real" ones in every respect.
The question is what gets lost if the show makes some slight deviations in this particular area? Exploration of racial or cultural tensions certainly doesn't go away. The setting has that in spades. Regardless of whether it maintains the purity of this specific element. If anything is worthy of the "suspend your disbelief" designation this is a good candidate.
Let us recall it's an adaptation. Adaptation does not mean "exactly like". In fact, adapt means to change to become more suitable. That change being "more in line with the cultural views of the time" is neither rare nor unreasonable. Is the world really going to implode if there are deviations here? It sure feels like the little blue ball remains intact and successfully made another revolution around the much bigger red/yellow/orange ball.
I don't quite follow. it would appear you're saying one of the actors managed their role well and the other did poorly. Which part is the problem? The actors being the "wrong" skin color? Or one of them failing to meet the subjective standard for "good actor"?.
The last claim here of forced diversity is interesting. How do you know this is the case? Do people have inside information on every tiny little detail related to which available actors were interested in the available roles and what went into evaluating their performance to make the final selection? Consider the implications of jumping to such conclusions.
Moderator: As a reminder to all, please, tread with care. This discussion is passing through some rather sensitive territory.
May I remind every one that The Witcher universe is post conjunction of spheres and that the humans very most likely come from our earth that have been destroyed? Do you expect they came all in distinct territories by colors? I don't know they most likely came mixed because it was a cataclysmic event (and because we are mixed and already were when book were written). It there's one fantasy world that can be adapted with such artistic liberties it's this one. Just drop the matter it's not important in The Witcher. It's one thing to say it's inspired by euporean middle age and stuff but at some point one must also take in to account the lore. The conjunction of sphere wheter you like it or not absolutely is something that allow this kind of "change. If I were you I would stop caring about that. The show is bad for plenty other reasons
It's absolutely true that the show is bad for many, MANY other reasons other than thatMay I remind every one that The Witcher universe is post conjunction of spheres and that the humans very most likely come from our earth that have been destroyed? Do you expect they came all in distinct territories by colors? I don't know they most likely came mixed because it was a cataclysmic event (and because we are mixed and already were when book were written). It there's one fantasy world that can be adapted with such artistic liberties it's this one. Just drop the matter it's not important in The Witcher. It's one thing to say it's inspired by euporean middle age and stuff but at some point one must also take in to account the lore. The conjunction of sphere wheter you like it or not absolutely is something that allow this kind of "change. If I were you I would stop caring about that. The show is bad for plenty other reasons
Yeah the actress is 20 years old and it shows (she's got tits). In that part of the books' story Ciri was still a little girl. Whereas in the show she nearly has the age of TW3
The fact she was a child was what cemented her father-daughter relationship with Geralt. It may look like a small detail for some, but the whole point of that storyline is LOST because of that
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If we follow that line of thinking, we should expect Geralt eating a pizza. Or has the recipe of good Italian food gone lost in the conjunction of the spheres? We shouldn't expect a Temerian castle, but pagodas. Skellige's warrior should paddle in canoes and so on.
Let's face it: the setting of the books is European Medieval-like.
I like Star Trek portraying "infinite diversity in infinite combinations", it fits the lore and the story. In the Witcher's books diversity is also important, but as a metaphor. I wish the show-runner would have dealt with the topic in a more subtle way.
The current score on Rotten Tomatoes is still reasonable for Season 2:
critics 94 %
viewers 61 %
For comparison Season 1 is currently:
critics 68%
viewers 91%
Exactly. That's why the games were aesthetically perfectIf we follow that line of thinking, we should expect Geralt eating a pizza. Or has the recipe of good Italian food gone lost in the conjunction of the spheres? We shouldn't expect a Temerian castle, but pagodas. Skellige's warrior should paddle in canoes and so on.
Let's face it: the setting of the books is European Medieval-like.
I like Star Trek portraying "infinite diversity in infinite combinations", it fits the lore and the story. In the Witcher's books diversity is also important, but as a metaphor. I wish the show-runner would have dealt with the topic in a more subtle way.
The current score on Rotten Tomatoes is still reasonable for Season 2:
critics 94 %
viewers 61 %
For comparison Season 1 is currently:
critics 68%
viewers 91%
Wow, this show went shit very fast.
Vesemir is a joke, irresponsible, weak asshole.
Eskel became a asshole tree.
Lambert became the new Eskel.
Yenn swears more than a taxi driver.
I wanted the relationships to progress, I don't think they showed anything to convince me that Geralt and Ciri get along. Yenn remained a total bitch. Triss is an insensitive horny bitch.
Also the WALLS of the castle Fringilla is in. The blocks are flat and look fake.
I don't know why but they bothered me more than they should have (probably because the show was not very good).
Vesemir is a joke, irresponsible, weak asshole.
Eskel became a asshole tree.
Lambert became the new Eskel.
Yenn swears more than a taxi driver.
I wanted the relationships to progress, I don't think they showed anything to convince me that Geralt and Ciri get along. Yenn remained a total bitch. Triss is an insensitive horny bitch.
Also the WALLS of the castle Fringilla is in. The blocks are flat and look fake.
I don't know why but they bothered me more than they should have (probably because the show was not very good).
I actually consider Wheel of Time slightly better than this one, and that one has Legend of The Seeker level of quality
(which is actually better than Netflix Witcher, I gotta rewatch that one again). That thing has actors I like more at least (specially the Money Heist one).Clearly this show isn't for me, but then again I'm the kind of guy who enjoys series like Columbo or The Wire. Starting from the first scene, there's just too much detail that's missing: that's not how people look when they've been traveling when it's snowing, there's no water condensation when people breath when it's cold enough to snow etc. This is more like it :
Peasants and royalty sound too similar, everyone's clothes are just too clean etc. Compare this to e.g. "dead soldiers" in The Wire (= when going undercover pretending to be a junkie, there needs to be glass shards from broken sample vials in the bottoms of your shoes). And that's just the details
I still watched trough the season, so I can't say it's exactly repulsive or anything like that. I just wish the IP would have gotten a better adaptation, since I've really enjoyed the games and the whole witcher universe starting from Witcher 1, after which I started reading the books.
:Peasants and royalty sound too similar, everyone's clothes are just too clean etc. Compare this to e.g. "dead soldiers" in The Wire (= when going undercover pretending to be a junkie, there needs to be glass shards from broken sample vials in the bottoms of your shoes). And that's just the details
I still watched trough the season, so I can't say it's exactly repulsive or anything like that. I just wish the IP would have gotten a better adaptation, since I've really enjoyed the games and the whole witcher universe starting from Witcher 1, after which I started reading the books.
Yeah I have to agree with that ..... This is not Europe and it is not the planet Earth
[...]
The races in the Witcher Universe are not based on skin color, they are based on the planets they once came from before the Conjunction. Human Race are all humans no matter the color of their skin, eyes or hair. Elven Race are Elves no matter their skin color and the same for Dwarves. Personally I think it's brilliant that skin color has no meaning what so ever in the Witcher Universe, even in the game no one was defined by their skin color but their planets of origin before the Conjunction
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The Legend of the Seeker is a great showI actually consider Wheel of Time slightly better than this one, and that one has Legend of The Seeker level of quality
mordsiths are a genius idea. That show is both laughable and fun.
This show is abominable. Affront to the legacy. It goes well beyond what they did to the source material and what Witcher fans rage on about. It's just poor quality film making. Just about every aspect of it ranges from mediocre to outright terrible: writing, costume design, setting design, music, casting, etc.
Especially casting. I had to stop after Djikstra. No offense to the actor but they made him look like a hobo in a psychotic episode. Most roles are extremely poorly cast. I did like Henry, though. And the first episode was pretty well-made.
Of course. But when two characters are supposed to be from the same place, why does one speak in a South London and the other in a Nigerian accent? Nobody minds ethnicity and looks unless they're racist. But speech is a part of the actor's craft, if you aspire to be one, you gotta learn accents. The producers evidently didn't care about details like this. Which makes it poor quality film making.
Another thing is the details of the setting. Witcher is not just any medieval fantasy but a very specific setting of a dark, realistic world inspired by SLAVIC FOLK CULTURE AND MYTHOLOGY. And here, Melitele's statue is a generic Shiva (and poorly made). The people who had last say in creative decisions didn't read the books, I'm sure of it. I suspect they didn't even bother to read the books' Wiki page.
Especially casting. I had to stop after Djikstra. No offense to the actor but they made him look like a hobo in a psychotic episode. Most roles are extremely poorly cast. I did like Henry, though. And the first episode was pretty well-made.
Of course. But when two characters are supposed to be from the same place, why does one speak in a South London and the other in a Nigerian accent? Nobody minds ethnicity and looks unless they're racist. But speech is a part of the actor's craft, if you aspire to be one, you gotta learn accents. The producers evidently didn't care about details like this. Which makes it poor quality film making.
Another thing is the details of the setting. Witcher is not just any medieval fantasy but a very specific setting of a dark, realistic world inspired by SLAVIC FOLK CULTURE AND MYTHOLOGY. And here, Melitele's statue is a generic Shiva (and poorly made). The people who had last say in creative decisions didn't read the books, I'm sure of it. I suspect they didn't even bother to read the books' Wiki page.