Poor Northern Realms don't havce a chance...
And if Jackpot is so bloody good, why can't I win with it? lol
And if Jackpot is so bloody good, why can't I win with it? lol
Thank you so much @RyanSchou for your super quick updates/uploads.
Regarding the result itself, I actually correctly predicted that Battle Trance would be the top leader. It is ridiculously OP and it was not touched. So, this season also this would be OP as the contenders have been severely nerfed (I mean, Jackpot has been nerfed technically, but most people consider that as a buff only). We can expect Battle Trance, Jackpot and Double Cross in top 3 next season.
Regarding the result itself, I actually correctly predicted that Battle Trance would be the top leader. It is ridiculously OP and it was not touched. So, this season also this would be OP as the contenders have been severely nerfed (I mean, Jackpot has been nerfed technically, but most people consider that as a buff only). We can expect Battle Trance, Jackpot and Double Cross in top 3 next season.
Monsters indeed appear to be moving toward a solid faction with multiple viable archetypes.
But I take issue with your statement about ST. The faction did not receive a huge nerf — one broken card got badly over-nerfed. But there were 5 boosts — at least four of which could prove significant. I don’t know whether invigorate is meta-worthy, but it’s definitely getting close. And dwarves are one buff closer to viability. I understand frustration when a faction’s one strong deck gets effectively killed, but win rate is not the only measure of cards being problematic.
SK has multiple good archetypes, but I consider this a good state, not a balance issue with the faction. It would be nice if all factions had as many. But I think the game is moving closer to that. I do believe the new onslaught gives pirates a bit too much, and something needs to be done to reduce synergies between crow clan preachers, the mushy truffle, and dwimveandras, but I don’t think the faction as a whole is out of line.
Another sad image. When you see a certain leader ability in top 3 in all ranks, then there must be something wrong with it.
But before that, there are plenty of green at the bottom (even below White Frost) which desparately needs an update. It is as though the bottom is exclusively given to Green and Blue.
Well, TLG seems to conform my prediction with their latest meta snapshot. Jackpot, Battle Trance and Double Cross would be the top three. Battle Trance had been in the top ever since Mushy Truffle was introduced. Double Cross had got 3 nerfs in recent time, and still it is just too strong and OP (nerf to Brathens, Terranova and even Coup). Jackpot has been on steroids with KoB.
Jan would also be very similar with these thee at the top, with only change that ST had been removed from the top spot. TLG even says "ST is now pathetic" and that they don't even want to discuss ST as it is just not worth it. I hope CDPR nerfs SY, SK and NG a bit. Lets hope the Feb balance changes are meaningful and have decent nerf entries.
The one thing I don't really understand is why they put Battle Trance in Tier 2. Didn't this leader have the highest winrate? I know the playrate was kinda low, but still. And it should be even stronger without ST around. And my counterprediction is that MO will be higher than NG in the end... let's see
Last edited:
The more I think about it, the more I believe nerfing Milva (or rather, making her near useless) was an actual mistake.
Not only did it reduce ST to a low tier option in general, as well as removing an otherwise fully unique playstlye, although these alone should be reason enough.
It had a much worse effect overall for the meta by removing the only real check on the greediest decks, resulting in one of the greediest metas in a long time. Now obviously every deck either tries to be mega-greedy or pack every possible hard removal in order to compete.
Not only did it reduce ST to a low tier option in general, as well as removing an otherwise fully unique playstlye, although these alone should be reason enough.
It had a much worse effect overall for the meta by removing the only real check on the greediest decks, resulting in one of the greediest metas in a long time. Now obviously every deck either tries to be mega-greedy or pack every possible hard removal in order to compete.
There is a difference between "official" winrates and meta tiers, because meta reports are created by high level players, while 75 percent of people in the "pro" rank are scrubs. This is illustrated by consistently middling winrates for Assimilate over the last few seasons, when people at the top of the ladder, who play against people at the top of the ladder, knew and said that Assimilate was a lot better than that list 48% percent or whatever would suggest. The same could be said about ST Nature's Gift that held the overall top spot for a couple of seasons, while never making Tier 1 in the meta reports.The one thing I don't really understand is why they put Battle Trance in Tier 2. Didn't this leader have the highest winrate? I know the playrate was kinda low, but still. And it should be even stronger without ST around. And my counterprediction is that MO will be higher than NG in the end... let's see
Post automatically merged:
Does anybody still remember the buffs to handbuff?
Last edited:
Well, for one, I highly enjoy reading how handbuff will "surely be really strong with these new buffs" and then handbuff disappearing after one week, for last few months
It's a gift that keeps on givingWell, for one, I highly enjoy reading how handbuff will "surely be really strong with these new buffs" and then handbuff disappearing after one week, for last few months
Handbuff can be really strong if you do not manage to play against it. If you win round 1 (you really should) you can bleed him intensely in round 2. So no handboosted cards left in round 3.
If this strategy does not succeed make sure that you have last say in round 3 and have enough control tools.
If this strategy does not succeed make sure that you have last say in round 3 and have enough control tools.
Does anybody still remember the buffs to handbuff?
Hehe.. I said that the buffs to Handbuff is significant and that the leader rework is huge. While I believe I stand corrected (that the buffs are really significant), in this crazy stupid meta of Jackpot, Battle Trance, and Double Cross, it is still hilariously weak. Against other Tier 2, Tier 3 decks, with good RNG Handbuff can put out some serious fight (but the deck shouldn't run Melusine, Kelly, Alumni, Illusionist etcWell, for one, I highly enjoy reading how handbuff will "surely be really strong with these new buffs" and then handbuff disappearing after one week, for last few months
)If CDPR ever decides to nerf the stupid Jackpot, BT, DC, then Handbuff can try to put up a fight. Until then, ST will remain in the dumpster.
Handbuff in my opinion is in a fine state. Since I can already see the fists flying towards me from all corners, let me clarify quicklyHehe.. I said that the buffs to Handbuff is significant and that the leader rework is huge. While I believe I stand corrected (that the buffs are really significant), in this crazy stupid meta of Jackpot, Battle Trance, and Double Cross, it is still hilariously weak. Against other Tier 2, Tier 3 decks, with good RNG Handbuff can put out some serious fight (but the deck shouldn't run Melusine, Kelly, Alumni, Illusionist etc
If CDPR ever decides to nerf the stupid Jackpot, BT, DC, then Handbuff can try to put up a fight. Until then, ST will remain in the dumpster.
Handbuff is the epitome of non-interactive playstyle. If played well, 90% of your actions cannot be countered or messed up by standard means (I'm not counting some deck and card manipulating options from NG here). If a playstyle like this ever gets to a level where it can literally pull wins even after your opponents played against it optimally, it creates an issue.
I think the buffs to this archetype were indeed good and plenty - the leader rework absolutely fine. The success rate of this deck does not come down to the level of it's cards at this point, but rather the ways it can be countered.
Handbuff is a unique variation of a greedy deck, one that is actually interesting to play - but it can be severely countered by winning R1 and then bleeding the hell out of it in R2. And this is the only reason it is not higher up on the popularity list. Once you learn how to beat it, you will beat is most of the time with the current metadecks - something similar to the Salamander variation of Jackpot.
Adding Saskia to the deck by some was definitely a step in the direction of making it a bit more resistant to R1 defeat, at the cost of consistency.
Last edited:
I actually kind of agree that Handbuff is in a decent state, but no so much with everything else you wrote here.Handbuff in my opinion is in a fine state. Since I can already see the fists flying towards me from all corners, let me clarify quickly
Handbuff is the epitome of non-interactive playstyle. If played well, 90% of your actions cannot be countered or messed up by standard means (I'm not counting some deck and card manipulating options from NG here). If a playstyle like this ever gets to a level where it can literally pull wins even after your opponents played against it optimally, it creates an issue.
I think the buffs to this archetype were indeed good and plenty - the leader rework absolutely fine. The success rate of this deck does not come down to the level of it's cards at this point, but rather the ways it can be countered.
Handbuff is a unique variation of a greedy deck, one that is actually interesting to play - but it can be severely countered by winning R1 and then bleeding the hell out of it in R2. And this is the only reason it is not higher up on the popularity list. Once you learn how to beat it, you will beat is most of the time with the current metadecks - something similar to the Salamander variation of Jackpot.
Adding Saskia to the deck by some was definitely a step in the direction of making it a bit more resistant to R1 defeat, at the cost of consistency.
First, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say Handbuff is uninteractive, much less "the epitome" of the playstyle, especially in the age of unitless, mill, clog, and Jackpot. Not to mention Graveyyard-based stuff of SK and MO, which can be interacted with about as much or less. It's based on carryover, yes, but a lot of it (certainly more than 10%, imo) comes from on-board engines, which are VERY easy to interact with. Also, your R3 payoff cards can also be interacted and countered in about a million ways. Even if you manage to get last say, that's just one 25-point card. If not for Skaggs and very conditional Watchers' ability to put some of that value on the other side of the board, Handbuff would be completely up the creek.
Second, I'm not sure what you define as "actions" here. I'm guessing you mean "points." Again, it's not 90% or anything, but yes, the majority of points is going directly into carryover, but that happens at the cost of tempo, which makes winning R1 problematic. That is a good balance of a mechanic.
Which makes this statement VERY wrong:
Why would this create any bigger of an "issue" than me currently playing Handbuff "optimally" against Battle Trance, Assimilate and Jackpot and still getting destroyed? How is that OK? And I'm glad you brought up Jackpot
D) because that's an example of a "non-interactive playstyle" that is firmly T1. Does that not create an issue? These "metadecks" don't actually need to play optimally (against handbuff or any non-meta decks) at all. Or bleed me in R2. In fact, I bleed them if I ever manage to with R1, because they all laugh at my silly 30-point Aglais last say in the long round.Another thing that "counters" Handbuff is the fact that it only really works as Devotion, unlike all these other top decks, so your control options are very limited.
All that said, once again, I do think Handbuff is "OK". But the reason it's not in the meta isn't that it "should be that way." It's the fact that it's Devotion ST and that the top decks are stupid broken.
Edit: Forgot to mention that adding Saskia to handbuff lists is my personal pet peeve and probably part of the reason the deck's been tossed by most people.
I Agree, the meta seems to be in a way worse state then before the patch and the only thing that really flew out of the window is Milva. Seems she kept a lot of toxic decks in check.