Overscripted Takemura ride and other events

[piotrrk]

New patch, new games... and it gets annoying seeing how hard-scripted events are:

- during ride with Takemura you can't aim at the last assassin - the game will prevent you from aiming at him - yet it tells you to kill him
- you equip standard pistol in like Maelstrom All Foods base (out of thin air...)
- you can't change weapon when shooting at drones when in a car (and it locks you to what you have at first slot?)

They only changed the Scavs chase where you can kill the driver so the VAN stops... to then accelerate and hit the wall anyway

If event outcomes have to be so specific at least don't script player control out of them that obviously

 

[Rodocastiza]

I was shooting to Ghost Rider xD

 

[Ydiss2077]

This has always bugged me. The way you sometimes cannot kill something, it's scripted so no matter how many times you hit it, it won't die because it's not yet time for it to die.

I don't think devs realise how frustrating these sequences can feel when you're neutered like this. Not a big deal, just reduces the fun of the events.

 

[Rodocastiza]

The scripted car chase in Sinnerman bothers me a lot.

 

[Leinadi]

They feel very gimmicky, yes. On the other hand, I think the weird way the game does the car races bother me a lot more because they're much longer. The car chase shooty-shooty bits don't overstay their welcome at least.

But yes, not a fan of those types of sequences all in all, whether they're heavily scripted or not.

Sometimes CD Projekt RED does add these weird things to their games. I always felt the whole opening of the Witcher 2 to be really strange in this regard as well with QTEs and a stealth section.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

As far as I remember, these "scripted" scenes are quite rare in the game and with Goro it's the most obvious one (Sinnerman "traffic spawning" too). And generally, you are quite free to do what you want (without failling objectives)

Spoiler: Unlike some other "scripted" games

 

[Ydiss2077]

As far as I remember, these "scripted" scenes are quite rare in the game and with Goro it's the most obvious one (Sinnerman "traffic spawning" too). And generally, you are quite free to do what you want (without failling objectives)

Spoiler: Unlike some other "scripted" games

Almost any of the vehicle sequences where you're firing a weapon have this to some degree. That's at least two if you're a Nomad and in the prologue and then Act 1 with the very first mission. Two or three in Panam's sequence. Takemura's chase is the worst, though. You might as well be firing paintballs. It conveys the stress of the situation well to a degree but then takes you right out of it the moment you realise your shots are doing nothing.

It's definitely not the worst problem the game has but it's a design decision that I'd personally avoid in attempting to script these events. Honestly, you're better off not even allowing the player to shoot stuff. Scripting stuff is OK (such as taking away control as you black out or lose control etc) but forcing targets to be invincible to satisfy timing of scripted events feels unsatisfying.

 

[EnDSchultz]

Has anyone tried to see what happens if you just don't shoot?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Has anyone tried to see what happens if you just don't shoot?

I think it also work !
With my great aiming skill, it's like I don't shoot or almost

 

[Garrison72]

They really need to have vehicle shootouts that aren't scripted. Thinking of Sleeping Dogs.

 

[Tiger667]

Has anyone tried to see what happens if you just don't shoot?

Tried it with the takemura ride.
The guy on the hood kills you.

 

[cartlidge]

back in the early days I did so badly takemura lost control and went over a cliff I seem to remember but that was in the early days.

I've just been dug out of a grave waking up from dead. The cut scene feels right. Can't expect to go from zero to hero in 0.12 seconds, It's only after vic has done his work that we start recovering and acting fully

 

[AlienSpaceBats]

you equip standard pistol in like Maelstrom All Foods base (out of thin air...)

Yeah, the Unity is the new Predator pistol from Mass Effect. V always pulls it out; when with Panam dropping the merch off to the 6th street gang members, when interrogating Hellman...
I understand why it's there, but do wish that it would at least use the pistol model we have equipped (if the player is using a pistol)

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Tried it with the takemura ride.
The guy on the hood kills you.

In very hard, you can't die, instead of all the other difficulties
(Like I said, I'm probably the worst to aim, so generally during this scene, all my bullets goes everywhere except on the targets... But yeah, I shoot, so without shooting at all, it could be different)

 

[Tiger667]

Stupid takemura, being the corpo stooge he is, smacked me as I lay on the ground.
The first thing I tried when he handed me the gun in the car was try and shoot him. The gun goes off but it has no effect.
Boohoo.

 

[EnDSchultz]

Tried it with the takemura ride.
The guy on the hood kills you.

Aha, so what you're saying is that shooting does, in some small way, make a difference? A threshold of shots fired which determines whether you live or die, perhaps?

 

[Ydiss2077]

During the prepatation for the AV EMP attack, you're chased by three drones and then the gun jams. You can destroy one but the other two remain invincible until the gun jams (and it always jams at the same point in the ride) so that Panam can pop up to fix it and get shot. No matter how many times you hit the other two drones, they won't get destroyed until after Panam gets shot and the gun is no longer jammed.

I'm not necessarily expecting that they offer two paths (one where she gets shot and one where she doesn't because you're fast enough at killing the drones) but it's just as easy to have her get shot whilst fixing it with a scripted attack triggering a new set of drones if you managed to kill the three already (if it's necessary for the scripting for her to be shot, which I guess it is in this case - still not really sure it is though... Panam literally assists you for the rest of the mission as a sniper despite this wound)

Scripted events are fine. Taking away control for scripted events is also fine (the gun jamming). But making the player's shooting do nothing to aid these two things isn't fine. And is never necessary. In all cases, you can allow the player to shoot, be effective (and in doing so kill the targets) and either change the outcome of the sequence because of that (the best game design, albeit the most difficult to pull off) or at least allow their actions to register, even if the overall scripted outcome remains unchanged.

I think the Takemura chase would be better if player control was taken away more to enforce the sequences. The only one that truly matters is the assassin that "does the Terminator" and jumps onto the car. That would be better if the player couldn't shoot at all. In fact, the realisation that not shooting results in death in this sequence makes me feel it's even worse There's no indication that your shots are doing anything of note in this sequence. By the end, you truly feel that every assassin died by script, not by your hand (even the final shot!)

 

[piotrrk]

That would be better if the player couldn't shoot at all.

Or just destroy the brakes in the car so the car always slams the lamp post with or without the bot. Same with Panam - she doesn't really have to get shot for the plot to unfold as it is.

 

[CS554]

During the prepatation for the AV EMP attack, you're chased by three drones and then the gun jams. You can destroy one but the other two remain invincible until the gun jams (and it always jams at the same point in the ride) so that Panam can pop up to fix it and get shot. No matter how many times you hit the other two drones, they won't get destroyed until after Panam gets shot and the gun is no longer jammed.

I'm not necessarily expecting that they offer two paths (one where she gets shot and one where she doesn't because you're fast enough at killing the drones) but it's just as easy to have her get shot whilst fixing it with a scripted attack triggering a new set of drones if you managed to kill the three already (if it's necessary for the scripting for her to be shot, which I guess it is in this case - still not really sure it is though... Panam literally assists you for the rest of the mission as a sniper despite this wound)

Scripted events are fine. Taking away control for scripted events is also fine (the gun jamming). But making the player's shooting do nothing to aid these two things isn't fine. And is never necessary. In all cases, you can allow the player to shoot, be effective (and in doing so kill the targets) and either change the outcome of the sequence because of that (the best game design, albeit the most difficult to pull off) or at least allow their actions to register, even if the overall scripted outcome remains unchanged.

There's other thing with Panam's health booster, Bounce Back from the looks of it but anyway. It always felt silly when my V was swimming in MaxDocs and Bounce Backs that he couldn't just give her one. Paman could still say the same lines (that also builds her and Nomads on story department) and V could give her one after that. Nothing would change but it wouldn't feel so off. Haha.

I think overall CDPR did really stellar job blurring the lines between scripted events and truly interactive ones. I think this is on that / story department where they couldn't develop that anymore for one reason or another but good feedback!

Takemura ride never really bothered me as in condition where V is during that ride sort of have had my attention.

 

[andrewdilley]

There's other thing with Panam's health booster, Bounce Back from the looks of it but anyway. It always felt silly when my V was swimming in MaxDocs and Bounce Backs that he couldn't just give her one. Paman could still say the same lines (that also builds her and Nomads on story department) and V could give her one after that. Nothing would change but it wouldn't feel so off. Haha.

I think overall CDPR did really stellar job blurring the lines between scripted events and truly interactive ones. I think this is on that / story department where they couldn't develop that anymore for one reason or another but good feedback!

Takemura ride never really bothered me as in condition where V is during that ride sort of have had my attention.

I would have given Panam one.. Back on topic. The scripted business is there to give a sense of peril I suppose, and can beat the player, but all early in the game? So telling the player, yeah mate they want to kill you, do something. Do it.