Opinion on Fixer "unlocking gigs" process 1.5

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My suggestion for this new fixer system is to make it so that there's a random pool of available gigs for each fixer. Make it so 3-4 gigs are available at the same time. But in order to make it so that not everyone has the same linear progression through gigs unlike now in 1.5, these 3-4 available gigs are randomized.

This could cause an issue with the difficulty of each gigs though.
While generally, gigs in the same district have the same difficulty, there are some that are harder than others. The gig Monster Hunt (with Jotaro Shobo) and The Heisenberg's Principe (glitter) are harder than Catch a Tyger's toe. The first ones have about 10-15 ennemies while Catch a Tyger's toe has only 4 if i recall right.

So, the developers could make separate pools of gigs ranked by easy, normal and hard. So when new players start the game, randomized pools of easy gigs are picked, then when they finish these, pools of normal gigs appear, and finally pools of hard gigs.

Unfortunately for a system like this to function, the game would need much more gigs in general in order to be able to make reasonable lists of easy/normal/hard gigs that contain at least 3 or 4 each. To remedy this, NCPD scanner hustles could be reworked like gigs were in 1.5 and included in this randomized pool system I am proposing.

I know actual additional content is not on the table for CDPR right now, but the game needs more gigs in general. The fact that City Center only has 5 gigs is really unfortunate. Some more corpo related gigs would be welcome, especially some where we can somewhat enter Arasaka tower, or even the other corpo buildings: Militech, Biotechnica, etc.
 
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My suggestion for this new fixer system is to make it so that there's a random pool of available gigs for each fixer. Make it so 3-4 gigs are available at the same time. But in order to make it so that not everyone has the same linear progression through gigs unlike now in 1.5, these 3-4 available gigs are randomized.

This could cause an issue with the difficulty of each gigs though.
While generally, gigs in the same district have the same difficulty, there are some that are harder than others. The gig Monster Hunt (with Jotaro Shobo) and The Heisenberg's Principe (glitter) are harder than Catch a Tyger's toe. The first ones have about 10-15 ennemies while Catch a Tyger's toe has only 4 if i recall right.

So, the developers could make separate pools of gigs ranked by easy, normal and hard. So when new players start the game, randomized pools of easy gigs are picked, then when they finish these, pools of normal gigs appear, and finally pools of hard gigs.

Unfortunately for a system like this to function, the game would need much more gigs in general in order to be able to make reasonable lists of easy/normal/hard gigs that contain at least 3 or 4 each. To remedy this, NCPD scanner hustles could be reworked like gigs were in 1.5 and included in this randomized pool system I am proposing.

I know actual additional content is not on the table for CDPR right now, but the game needs more gigs in general. The fact that City Center only has 5 gigs is really unfortunate. Some more corpo related gigs would be welcome, especially some where we can somewhat enter Arasaka tower, or even the other corpo buildings: Militech, Biotechnica, etc.
Please no (about the ncpd overhaul. For me it's perfect the way it is now (hidden until close to it).
As for fixers randomizing it wouldn't solve the problem for me either if you still have to finish all available to get the next batch - you're still uncapable of not doing some gigs but do the rest.
I said before my ideal solution (going personally to see fixers and select from a menu the next available batch) but alternatively and more simplisticly, the next batch could unlock when there is one gig missing from the batch. That way you could leave one gig per batch undone or to do later on.
 
Classic CDPR: design something poorly, then try to fix it without understanding the cause, creating new problems.
New approach tries to add a sense of progression, but in a way that feels artificial and unnecessarily restrictive.
I don't think they will substantially change this at this point, so we're left with system as it is.
For the next game, hopefully, in the series, I really want to see full revision of gigs and completely different sense of progression
1. Before working for large fixers ( that run the jobs in districts), player would work small time jobs for local fixers ( like Kirk) in starting area. Whole work your way up from the gutter, so to speak.
2. After you gain enough rep, you learn location/phone number of major fixers and you have to visit them. You introduce yourself, they give you info on district, factions, etc.
3. For each, you'd have a preliminary set of "generalist" gigs ( that don't require specific approach), to prove you're capable/reliable
4. After this, you can call a fixer on phone and ask them for specific type of gig ( steal, hack, someone taken out, rescue, delivery, etc).
5. When you've done these gigs ( well) and fully earned their trust, it opens up more unique/difficult jobs, that give best rewards ( like Sinnerman).
6. So "three tiers" of progression so to speak
7. More moral choices and consequences with how you complete jobs. More character dialogue.
 
player would work small time jobs for local fixers ( like Kirk)
Kirk is not a fixer, just a random gonk who offer shit work... And there is only one fixer per neighbordhood and the "boss", in the Afterlife, that's all.
I don't think that Wakako, Regina or Padre would accept any other fixer or any kind of concurrency on their territory :)
 
Kirk is not a fixer, just a random gonk who offer shit work... And there is only one fixer per neighbordhood and the "boss", in the Afterlife, that's all.
I don't think that Wakako, Regina or Padre would accept any other fixer or any kind of concurrency on their territory :)
The point he was making was to suggest that the whole process works differently, not really stating that he thinks Kirk is a fixer now. I mean, Rogue doesn't "have a territory" in terms of offering gigs to the player, yet there she is, offering gigs to the player nonetheless. SImilarly to Dex. They're both fixers, right? I think it's besides the point being made anyway. And that was to suggest that these "people", if you don't want to call them fixers, offer jobs in the form of gigs or side jobs, outside of the "main" fixers that are territorially bound.

I think the proposal he made is a decent one. Certainly way better than the "progression" we have now, which is a simplistic way to rehash the original open world freedom that I'm guessing lots of players hated, I suppose.
 
My point was, above all > there is no "major/local" fixers. There is only one by neighborhood ;)
Actually, where that would put Dex? Or maybe Regina had the Northern Watson and took over rest of Watson after Dex was killed.

EDIT: In any case, Kirk or any fixer who isn't part of Afterlife network, relevant GIG would come from Padre or Rogue, to kill that motherfucker. It's AFAIK settings thing coming from tabletop, not a matter of individual game.
 
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Actually, where that would put Dex? Or maybe Regina had the Northern Watson and took over rest of Watson after Dex was killed.

EDIT: In any case, Kirk or any fixer who isn't part of Afterlife network, relevant GIG would come from Padre or Rogue, to kill that motherfucker. It's AFAIK settings thing coming from tabletop, not a matter of individual game.
Yep, Dex was there two years before, so "we can suppose" that he had some sort of "territory" in Watson (or maybe Pacifica before his "exil").
And yeah, a "young" fixer who would think he can make his own business in Japan Town or Heywood near Wakako or Padre is a "dead man" :D
I imagine that it would be the same in Santo Domingo (El Capitan) or City Center (Dino).
 
Anyway, I just hoped that Jobs appear in a "random" order (simply that could make the "replay" a little bit more interesting).

I have to agree I do like being able to pick my own order because depending on which you do first can make changes to the others in small but not insignificant ways. Like getting Skippy before doing a job where you may be greatly outnumbered and rushed by the enemies. Skippy set to head shots can make a big difference in how that part of the game pans out.

Thus allowing for more variety in game play thrus.

Randomizing them as you suggest would help. It could solve both sides of the issue.
But even better would be random but influenced by factors such as street cred and how happy the Fixer was with your previous work.

That would be more complicated however, pure random may have a better chance of the DEV actually making the change. And more likely a mod maker could do this if the DEV does not.
 
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"OPINION ON FIXER "UNLOCKING GIGS" PROCESS 1.5"

In case you don't know what I'm talking about, I mean the new way fixers don't allow you to take any gig in any order. They only allow you to take a handful and then you unlock more as you finish each "batch" for them.
If I were to guess, I'd say this was done in an attempt to make the game not foul up as much when players leave open too many jobs and or gigs. As you probably know, it was unwise from the beginning to do that.
 
As I see it there are many more small time fixers around hiring for small time jobs. The ones we know are the main fixers by district that would probably erase competition if it started getting too big, but I don't think they would go and genocide everyone that put a team together/hire people for any job.
This is a massive city and we get to see a sample of it
 
Classic CDPR: design something poorly, then try to fix it without understanding the cause, creating new problems.
New approach tries to add a sense of progression, but in a way that feels artificial and unnecessarily restrictive.
I never played other games from CDPR than the first Witcher. Then years later I tried the sequel, played it for I think 2 to 5 hours and realized that fantasy just isn't my genre, so I don't know what's the history here.

I don't need an essays here, but if you could tell if there's a pattern of checklist type mechanic (design, checklist can be presented many ways) added to solve [something], if there's a pattern of virtual items rewards and such that may have little to even none game play value (does reward item enable new ways to solve problems presented in game in a practice) and / or any possible addictive mechanic used to solve a "problem".

A bullet list would be enough. I can found more then if I feel I need to via videos I think, but I need pointers first as I have no any intention to play Witcher series and while there's been hardly anything casual in a way I have got to this game, even Covid was a factor there too. It's that I don't really play games that much and usually there can be months that I don't even turn my Xbox on, but to rent a movie or series if even that.

I used to play games on PC back in the day and my impression about gaming media is that it has been irrelevant for my interests for more than a decade, so I'm with very few options here to learn about this history with CDPR.


I don't think they will substantially change this at this point, so we're left with system as it is.
While I'm on Xbox and console players wouldn't benefit, the largest audience for this game is still on PC where there's possibility to change things via mods. While creating new story content with voice acting and that is probably beyond the scope of that space, for story content information via text messages via in-game phone, emails and data shards could be used and of course major consequences like with "The Frolics of Counsilk woman" adding a news item to in-game the Net pages, WSN and N54.

For the next game, hopefully, in the series, I really want to see full revision of gigs and completely different sense of progression
1. Before working for large fixers ( that run the jobs in districts), player would work small time jobs for local fixers ( like Kirk) in starting area. Whole work your way up from the gutter, so to speak.
First, I get what you meant with role of Kirk. If there's a new fixer in town and there is as revealed by some GIG's from Regina, even though V may never meet that fixer (only option would be Mr. Hands but I'm not getting any Soviet vibes from him) possibly settings aspect is solved simply by including that fixer in Afterlife network, so I got bit distracted there.

2. After you gain enough rep, you learn location/phone number of major fixers and you have to visit them. You introduce yourself, they give you info on district, factions, etc.
3. For each, you'd have a preliminary set of "generalist" gigs ( that don't require specific approach), to prove you're capable/reliable
4. After this, you can call a fixer on phone and ask them for specific type of gig ( steal, hack, someone taken out, rescue, delivery, etc).
5. When you've done these gigs ( well) and fully earned their trust, it opens up more unique/difficult jobs, that give best rewards ( like Sinnerman)
6. So "three tiers" of progression so to speak
7. More moral choices and consequences with how you complete jobs. More character dialogue.

I'm not sure if this isn't just replacing one check list with more checklists. How I read this is that more complicated checklist replacing simpler one.

What is the problem here? Sense of progression with fixers. for how many players exactly is that an issue? What would be the point of, more so what's the point with Street Credit now except unlocking Sinnerman? Other possible side jobs? (Garry the Prophet story line is not tied to Street Cred but how many times V converses with him and time passed after those conversations)

For player freedom and freedom of design, checklist design doesn't allow scenarios where V doesn't do the GIG or fails a GIG, maybe on purpose. I don't know what roleplaying is and I don't care of that discussion but for me as player I really liked when previously had a freedom not to do something and players may come to decision like that, what will their V does or does not from different points of views, you wrote about moral but considering background information given gig concerning council woman Cole, from ethical point of view, or both.

Failing a GIG then, I didn't try this, but another GIG from Dino, I think it's called "Lack of Empathy". Owner of club has been dealing with snuff video stuff and collaborating with Gottfrid and Fredrik’ from "Dirty Biz". With 1.5 I don't know if killing that NPC locks out progression with Dino or not. That would be, one more element to player freedom, failing an individual gig. Time being a limiting factor for most people, with current design how many players dares to even try? It's first GIG in Dino's line and failing that might lock player out from all the rest. Like I wrote, I don't know if that's the case, but I don't see checklist design encouraging experimentation.

What's the goal here? While I can get you are offering a solution, there's that it looks like more of the same in more complex manner.


What I think could be done now, with the game we have with if any modders would take this under consideration:

  • Return GIG's unlocking to Street Cred, not everything necessarily comes available at once, but there could be intervals like 20, 30,40, even perhaps 45 to 50.
  • Enable access to rewards from Fixers in alternate way. If player does all the gigs for fixer (no matter in what order) they will get item as reward for free. If player doesn't do all the gigs, reward items would become for sale at Street Cred 50 regardless and fixer would be willing to sell them to V for Eurobucks. There could be alternate modified SMS message from fixer to inform player about that.
  • If news item related to Council Woman Cole is removed from game or hard to access, explore possibility to use in-game Net pages, particularly if news item for consequence for doing that GIG would be made available for player via WNS and N54 pages.
I'm on Xbox but if I were on PC I for one would like to find something like that.

"OPINION ON FIXER "UNLOCKING GIGS" PROCESS 1.5"


If I were to guess, I'd say this was done in an attempt to make the game not foul up as much when players leave open too many jobs and or gigs.
Foul up in what sense? Triggering fear of missing out? OCD?

There's "One more GIG" option available for players after the credits.

As you probably know, it was unwise from the beginning to do that.
Not OP, but I don't get this.

There's freedom to choose and explore which is different for just following a path. Neither is an ass following a carrot hanging from a stick exploring anything, it's just trying to catch a carrot, that being only agenda available to it.
 
I'm not sure if this isn't just replacing one check list with more checklists. How I read this is that more complicated checklist replacing simpler one.

What is the problem here? Sense of progression with fixers. for how many players exactly is that an issue? What would be the point of, more so what's the point with Street Credit now except unlocking Sinnerman? Other possible side jobs? (Garry the Prophet story line is not tied to Street Cred but how many times V converses with him and time passed after those conversations)

For player freedom and freedom of design, checklist design doesn't allow scenarios where V doesn't do the GIG or fails a GIG, maybe on purpose. I don't know what roleplaying is and I don't care of that discussion but for me as player I really liked when previously had a freedom not to do something and players may come to decision like that, what will their V does or does not from different points of views, you wrote about moral but considering background information given gig concerning council woman Cole, from ethical point of view, or both.

Failing a GIG then, I didn't try this, but another GIG from Dino, I think it's called "Lack of Empathy". Owner of club has been dealing with snuff video stuff and collaborating with Gottfrid and Fredrik’ from "Dirty Biz". With 1.5 I don't know if killing that NPC locks out progression with Dino or not. That would be, one more element to player freedom, failing an individual gig. Time being a limiting factor for most people, with current design how many players dares to even try? It's first GIG in Dino's line and failing that might lock player out from all the rest. Like I wrote, I don't know if that's the case, but I don't see checklist design encouraging experimentation.

What's the goal here? While I can get you are offering a solution, there's that it looks like more of the same in more complex manner.


What I think could be done now, with the game we have with if any modders would take this under consideration:

  • Return GIG's unlocking to Street Cred, not everything necessarily comes available at once, but there could be intervals like 20, 30,40, even perhaps 45 to 50.
  • Enable access to rewards from Fixers in alternate way. If player does all the gigs for fixer (no matter in what order) they will get item as reward for free. If player doesn't do all the gigs, reward items would become for sale at Street Cred 50 regardless and fixer would be willing to sell them to V for Eurobucks. There could be alternate modified SMS message from fixer to inform player about that.
  • If news item related to Council Woman Cole is removed from game or hard to access, explore possibility to use in-game Net pages, particularly if news item for consequence for doing that GIG would be made available for player via WNS and N54 pages.
I'm on Xbox but if I were on PC I for one would like to find something like that.
My issue is with pacing and how it fits in the lore. In every SP open world rpg one of the most important/difficult things to design is balancing of Freedom, Character Progression/Difficulty and Immersion.
You need to lead player to quests and encounters to the player in immersive fashion, but also "gate" harder ones in a way that feels organic, intutive, while still making the world feel open and inviting to explore ( so there aren't constant "roadblocks").
CDPR really does this exceptionally poorly, both with levels/difficulty and with quests.
"Old system" of gigs makes V feel like you're the greatest/only merc in town, all the fixers at your beck and call, constantly monitoring you and giving you gigs at your convenience.
They went too far with making access to content as convenient as possible ( skipping introduction to fixers altogether, and "low level" quests) so it strips the world of connection to the player and turns into a giant checklist.
Now they added "progression" of a sort, but in a very simplistic and inorganic way, without really fixing core issue. ( I guess this shows there are no shortcuts to good design)
By having first segment more linear, with a few gigs and direct dalogue with fixers, it serves a narrative/worldbuilding purpose of introduction, and progression.
Then after this, majority of gigs becomes accessible ( 75% or so, in the area) and player can simply ask for specific type of gig in any location, nearest to your own: this is where you give the player more agency and freedom, while reducing backtracking. This is also good way to have more accessible difficulty ( so if you're specialized into stealth, you can ask for those type of gigs first)
Then last, after you've done those, fixers will call you and offer you more complex gigs ( like Sinnerman).
 
I've not seen a lot of chatter about this and 1.5 landed when I'd finished almost all of the gigs on the V I was playing at the time but I've started a new V and have cleared Watson, Westbrook and almost Badlands with this new method. In case you don't know what I'm talking about, I mean the new way fixers don't allow you to take any gig in any order. They only allow you to take a handful and then you unlock more as you finish each "batch" for them. They send you a motivational text message and I guess the intention was for this to feel like some type of RPG quest progression system.

Well, I did give it a chance but I just dislike it overall but think it could be changed a little to make it better and retain the feeling of progression with the fixer. I think 1.5 has improved the game in many ways, including the way you get a nice little reward for completing each fixer's gigs in total but this change just has not improved the game in my estimation.

I think I know what they were going for but it just falls very flat. What it ultimately results in is a much more linear feel. This is not good in my opinion. It also means that, if you're completing a single fixer's gigs in sequence, you're often lead on a little merry-go-round chase where they're annoyingly sending you back-tracking to locations you were only just at. I just didn't enjoy this at all. It felt disjointed. It didn't feel better. And in some cases it was annoying.

I think the idea isn't that bad and perhaps it could just be tweaked a touch. For example, Regina has 22 gigs in total. But she offers them roughly two at a time, which is horrible. I'd say it would be fine if she offered batches of 10, then 10 and then 2 final "end game" gigs. That would retain the feel of progression but keep it very much non-linear. In fact, I'd suggest they all work this way. Half up front, half once you've done those and then 1-2 final jobs (ideally just one to be honest) to "round it up".

Anyway, that's how I feel about it. TLDR:

Pros:
  • I like how it adds a feeling of progression with the fixers
  • The end reward is a nice touch
Cons:
  • The number of available gigs at any time is far too limited (as low as just 2 at a time)
  • It makes the process feel way more linear and anti-open world.
  • They're often far flung about the region, which results in a lot of back-tracking, often enough annoyingly so.
Suggestion:
  • Change it so the fixer offers roughly 50% of their gigs initially then the rest after they're completed, with one or two "finale" gigs at the end once you've done them all (or in the case of low total gig counts, like Wakado's 8, just allow us to do all but 1-2 initially).
I honestly gave it a full swing and a fair shake and I think it has some merit but the current implementation just doesn't make the game better so perhaps a compromise might help improve it.
So it's exactly how I imagined when reading the patch notes. Less freedom of choice since you can't just do those quests you want to.
 
My issue is with pacing and how it fits in the lore. In every SP open world rpg one of the most important/difficult things to design is balancing of Freedom, Character Progression/Difficulty and Immersion.
You need to lead player to quests and encounters to the player in immersive fashion, but also "gate" harder ones in a way that feels organic, intutive, while still making the world feel open and inviting to explore ( so there aren't constant "roadblocks").
CDPR really does this exceptionally poorly, both with levels/difficulty and with quests.
No offence, but that's lot's of words with no academical value and subjective needs.

"Old system" of gigs makes V feel like you're the greatest/only merc in town, all the fixers at your beck and call, constantly monitoring you and giving you gigs at your convenience.
I never got that vibe. I was going jobs for convenience of Fixers, who wanted things done, my V wanted money. V actually encounters some other mercenaries, dead ones.

They went too far with making access to content as convenient as possible ( skipping introduction to fixers altogether, and "low level" quests) so it strips the world of connection to the player and turns into a giant checklist.
It didn't work for you, but it worked for me. I don't consider relationships with fixers normal by any means. Not meeting the fixer is a choice player could, and can still make, to keep those relationships formal. That's practical freedom of choice, my V may have an agency to keep fixers as distant as possible.

Nope, that's only true if player aims to do 100% of the content and on every playthrough. In that case design doesn't matter as product will appear as one giant checklist, regardless of design dictated by goal player has set to him/herself.

By having first segment more linear, with a few gigs and direct dalogue with fixers, it serves a narrative/worldbuilding purpose of introduction, and progression.
Then after this, majority of gigs becomes accessible ( 75% or so, in the area) and player can simply ask for specific type of gig in any location, nearest to your own: this is where you give the player more agency and freedom, while reducing backtracking. This is also good way to have more accessible difficulty ( so if you're specialized into stealth, you can ask for those type of gigs first)
Then last, after you've done those, fixers will call you and offer you more complex gigs ( like Sinnerman).
I'm not sure what to make of this as you wrote earlier about fixers giving gigs to you at your convenience, now it's V asking specific type of gig. You also mentioned lore, but AFAIK, that's not how it works with fixers at all.

Look, no hard feelings but I don't see this is useful in scope of OP, the game we have, nor in a scope of mods.


On topic:

Something I recall someone posted over a year ago was how Street Credit can only go up.

I think something a mod could handle, so PC only but anyway.

- Severe link between Street Credit and store items.
- V can now, after a while, skip a GIG, but with a cost of Street Credit.
- Fixer rewards would come available for only for purchase, at Street Cred 50 even if V skipped gigs from fixers checklist
 
I think something a mod could handle, so PC only but anyway.

- Severe link between Street Credit and store items.
- V can now, after a while, skip a GIG, but with a cost of Street Credit.
- Fixer rewards would come available for only for purchase, at Street Cred 50 even if V skipped gigs from fixers checklist
Honestly, I like the idea of being able to choose the GIGs either by going to see the fixers in person (like a vendor), or from the apartment computer which would have a specialized website named "AfterLife Private Merc Network" for example.
- GIGs would be unlocked by Street Cred (as before).
- Each GIG would have the full description directly on the fixer/website list (as the current fixers messages).
You can accept or refuse each GIGs in the order you want :
- GIGs refused will be definitely unavailable.
- Only accepted GIGs will be displayed on the map.
And finally, a fixer who have all his GIGs completed (or refused), will send a reward depending of the number of GIGs completed. If you refuse all the GIGs, you should get nothing obviously^^.
 
Honestly, I like the idea of being able to choose the GIGs either by going to see the fixers in person (like a vendor), or from the apartment computer which would have a specialized website named "AfterLife Private Merc Network" for example.
- GIGs would be unlocked by Street Cred (as before).
- Each GIG would have the full description directly on the fixer/website list (as the current fixers messages).
You can accept or refuse each GIGs in the order you want :
- GIGs refused will be definitely unavailable.
- Only accepted GIGs will be displayed on the map.
And finally, a fixer who have all his GIGs completed (or refused), will send a reward depending of the number of GIGs completed. If you refuse all the GIGs, you should get nothing obviously^^.
Would work for me.

Reward thing, eddies and bonuses when possible additional objective was met. But I never really went to these special rewards from fixers we got in 1.5. They would make more sense to me if they weren't gifts but fixer would be selling some special stock, cyberware, a weapon, a car, what we have now and perhaps fixer could sell those items with a discount if V had successfully completed 20 / 50 / 100% of gigs for each particular fixer.

Whole messages things from fixers now, how they tell V is moving up, it undermines Street Credit that should be city wide reputation creating a dissonance. Then, it can be seen convenient for them to gift V items to keep V available for them for possible future GIG's and considering how short lived mercenaries can be and that Fixers are perfectly aware of that as they handle the business. Wouldn't it be even more convenient for them to try selling those items for V?

I don't say that rewards for doing all the gigs for particular fixer couldn't be free and I guess that's something that can make some players at least feel like their V is Night City legend. I see carrot hanging from a stick though and not in-universe sense.
 
Wouldn't it be even more convenient for them to try selling those items for V?
In fact, like for cars, no problem (even cheap) :)
But for example, the Wakako's katana, if we read the description "it has been gathering dust for ages in Wakako's office...", I conclude that it is a (very) special "gift" for someone who brought her a lot money/reputation (by completing all her GIGs with success). So the fact that she would simply sell this katana won't really make sense (or maybe yes, but at a "very prohibitive" price, let's say 150K eddies).
 
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