How to beat Monster Pointslam

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DRK3

Forum veteran
Im making this thread not for us to complain more about how brainless yet so strong Monster relicts is, but to take the matter into our own hands and discuss counters and ways to beat it.

- First of all, we all call it 'pointslam', but that isnt accurate, when two of their key pieces are engines, and without them they would not be as scary. Im talking about Witch Apprentice and Selfeater. Amazing how these cards appeared around a year ago but they still dominate MO. And how Witch apprentice is only 5 provisions when its a bronze and better than most 6 and 7 provision cards.

- The playerbase has part of the blame. Everyone has a choice in what to play, but there is a huge tendency for the meta to gravitate either towards toxic decks or very simple (the so-called "brainless") decks that are very reliable.

- I thought going into Pro rank early on, when there's only the very good players there, would allow me to dodge finding these basic decks... Unfortunately i was wrong. It seems golden nekker is out of favor, and 10+ provision relicts are back on track (SWK, Mammuna, Gerni), probably due to Triss MS, but the deck is still mostly similar.
As much as i love Triss as a character, this card has dumbed down the game even further.

Anyway, i decided to do something about it, humility aside, its one of my specialties: make an anti-meta deck against MO relicts.
I took a break from making the lives of ST and NG players miserable - my usual victims - and focused on destroying and humiliating MO relicts, without any care on how good it is against other decks.

I started with NR, half siege engines, half nasty stuff (scorch, igni, censer, vincent meis... a lot of tall punishment). I was successful, not only did i win on this matchup, i made every single opponent forfeit, including one of the most experienced and respected pro players, who sadly was using these brainless crap.
If requested, i can share the deck here, maybe even make a small guide.

I am planning to make decks for other factions to counter this plague, but feel free to share your own decks, tips, cards that are relevant on the subject. :howdy:
 
I’m planning to make a deck against relicts as NG with a lot of tall punish, Canta-Location for stealing Aero, Coup on new Triss etc.
Would love to see the deck you were using although I hate playing NR it would be good to see if I missed something.
 
...and they have audacity to complain about Mill - a simple solution to all toxicity our mildly competent developers create. ;>

You forgot about that deck often uses Aerondight - with extremely toxic mechanics.
I don`t get, how it does not have a power cap (max 12), as well as Melusine should have - it could be done to Harald, so why not limit toxicity more ?

It`s so easy to get the minimum req. for the blasted sword trigger - it should not be so.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
I’m planning to make a deck against relicts as NG with a lot of tall punish, Canta-Location for stealing Aero, Coup on new Triss etc.
Would love to see the deck you were using although I hate playing NR it would be good to see if I missed something.

Here. I dont have the time right now to make a full guide, but i'll share some of the major points:

- Using tall punishment that targets a single unit isnt effective against MO relicts because you're trading poorly in provisions: paying 8,9+ provisions to kill a 9-10pt unit, but they only paid around 5 provisions for it. That's why Igni and Scorch are great here.

-The deck thins a lot to make sure you get these key cards, and to not need to spend oneiromancy to get them.

-Reinforced ballista and ballista to line up the scorch/ igni. Usually you dont even need it, they put a lot of 9pt units and they rowstack, i usually avoid hitting these 9pt units, even though is suspicious when im wasting damage.

-Siege master is amazing for ornate censer. Their fruit of ysgith is usually at 2pt or more so its no problem.

-Vincent meis also trades really well with all these tall units in case you missed scorch /igni.

-Boiling Oils mostly to deal with selfeaters, you just need a reinforced ballista on the board for 6/7 damage

-Foltest pride in case they play Gernichora, although usually they dont get sabbath for it.

-Seltkirk and Margarita as backup in case you need to counter a witch apprentice or selfeater. BTW pinging the 9pt units to 8 and waiting until witch apprentices are at 8 also makes up for huge scorches/ ignis.

-Be careful with AA, i like to use it on reinforced ballista, dont use it on ballista cuz you dont want 8/9pt units on your side.

-Inspired Zeal cuz Seltkirk and Raffard's vengeance are great, although Stockpile might also be an option, with a few adjustments.

P.S. - you dont need to worry about Triss Meteor Shower if there are no units for her to boost :ohstopit:
 
How to beast monster pointslam = row punish, locks or removal for witches, purify in case of defender
 

Here. I dont have the time right now to make a full guide, but i'll share some of the major points:

- Using tall punishment that targets a single unit isnt effective against MO relicts because you're trading poorly in provisions: paying 8,9+ provisions to kill a 9-10pt unit, but they only paid around 5 provisions for it. That's why Igni and Scorch are great here.

-The deck thins a lot to make sure you get these key cards, and to not need to spend oneiromancy to get them.

-Reinforced ballista and ballista to line up the scorch/ igni. Usually you dont even need it, they put a lot of 9pt units and they rowstack, i usually avoid hitting these 9pt units, even though is suspicious when im wasting damage.

-Siege master is amazing for ornate censer. Their fruit of ysgith is usually at 2pt or more so its no problem.

-Vincent meis also trades really well with all these tall units in case you missed scorch /igni.

-Boiling Oils mostly to deal with selfeaters, you just need a reinforced ballista on the board for 6/7 damage

-Foltest pride in case they play Gernichora, although usually they dont get sabbath for it.

-Seltkirk and Margarita as backup in case you need to counter a witch apprentice or selfeater. BTW pinging the 9pt units to 8 and waiting until witch apprentices are at 8 also makes up for huge scorches/ ignis.

-Be careful with AA, i like to use it on reinforced ballista, dont use it on ballista cuz you dont want 8/9pt units on your side.

-Inspired Zeal cuz Seltkirk and Raffard's vengeance are great, although Stockpile might also be an option, with a few adjustments.

P.S. - you dont need to worry about Triss Meteor Shower if there are no units for her to boost :ohstopit:

Congrats on creating yet another netdeck. With instructions for complete d-players, no less.
Relicts was the last monster deck where one could avoid broken cards and that could work with different draws. And I'll still play it - because fruits is the only decent ability in the Thronebreaker tree.
Also. one should really, really avoid calling anything brainless while using Ornate Censer.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
I wanted to return to this thread for a reason...
I may have left implied MO relicts is the most problematic deck in the current meta, which i believe is not the case, there are a few that are far worse and much harder to counter, like Stockpile Siege which is the leader ability that consistently generates the most points in the game by far, even if we exclude the Radovid's extra charges.

But we'll stay on-topic, and discuss countering MO here, and for other decks we'll do it elsewhere.

Some other decks that beat MO pointslam, IN THEORY:

-The aforementioned siege deck, it has no problem against MO. This is easy to explain - a control engine deck will be very favoured against a pointslam / boost engine hybrid that has very little control.

-MO vampires. I haven't seen this particular matchup, but the point potential of fleders plus all the other bleeding engines is probably enough to beat relicts, and the Regis Reborn finisher is bigger than anything relicts has access to.

-SK rain. This deck felt out of favour for no reason (maybe a meta where GY hate was omnipresent, but that is gone now) and it can still destroy most decks, due to the potential of messenger of the sea, which is similar to Fleders (can come out at 6+, out of most removal reach) but has an even bigger potential with Skellige storm and Rioghan (the latter isnt even neccessary, its overkill)

-NG assimilate. Doing what NG does best and using MO strengths against them (selfeaters and witch apprentices), with added assimilate value.

-This last one is not a deck, but a strategy - incubus is very popular in MO relicts decks to cheaply revive their best bronzes... but all those bronzes are 5 or 6p, so if you stick exclusively to 4p bronze units or even not include bronze units, only bronze specials and/or tokens, their incubus is guaranteed to brick.
 
NG assimilate
Haven’t seen them since GN came.
I guess it’s just a pointslam deck, that’s been powercrept by other much stronger pointslam decks (mostly SK and MO).
Haven’t actually seen any good NG deck (except the GN variants which is :-/)
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
Haven’t seen them since GN came.
I guess it’s just a pointslam deck, that’s been powercrept by other much stronger pointslam decks (mostly SK and MO).
Haven’t actually seen any good NG deck (except the GN variants which is :-/)
Actually, for the past week or two there's been a resurgence of NG Assimilate: ive faced them on pro rank lately, yesterday saw some players took it to the open qualifiers (but closed the stream when i noticed not a single deck different from metadecks, at least from those 2 players :shrug:)

Even saw some meme on reddit on how NG Assimilate is always strong, because it mirrors the strengths of the opponent so it isnt as easily powercrept.
 
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