Yep, or in this case - hyperbolic clickbait rubbish. Modders are saving Cyberpunk. This mod is insane. Ugh.
Most of CDPR staff is working on story expansion. And modders truly can't compete with that.
Not like there should be any competition or rivalry between developers and modders.
The "Let There Be Flight" mod [Updated 14.09.2022. 1.6 compatible.] [Available on Nexus] [BETA] [Spoilers]
The LTBF mod was updated 14.09.2022 and uploaded to Nexus. https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/5208?tab=posts&BH=2 Greetings, Made a vid of the "Let There Be Flight" mod, which I'm already totally in love with. Have been doing nothing else since I got it. Should be in the game from...
forums.cdprojektred.com
Which is why I never click on these things, unless the post includes some detail about exactly what the mod does. Whatever this one is might be good. I don't know, because I refuse to click on the youtube link.
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Modders don't have access to the tools to create expansions. Several high quality, game-sized mods created for Skyrim suggest that modders are more than capable and willing, when tools are available.Most of CDPR staff is working on story expansion. And modders truly can't compete with that.
Not like there should be any competition or rivalry between developers and modders.
Meh, even if they'd had the tools, they wouldn't be able to match the writing of professional writers and voice acting of professional voice actors.
Maybe they could with Skyrim, I don't know, but that's extremely low bar.
You'll never get anything close to Hearts of Stone from a modding team, regardless of their determination and tools at their disposal.
You seem to have a lot of contempt for modders, threads like this surely don't help, but on this you are wrong.
The modding community is full of industry professionals. Programmers, artists, writers, sound specialists, whatever you can think of there are many. Plenty are long time industry veterans doing this because they have a passion for it and they can do it without any time and/or budget constraints. Professional voice actors have been hired and sometimes donated their performance for mods big and small. Falskaar for example, a Skyrim mod, had 29 voice actors, some of which are professionals voice actors. The mod itself isn't perfect but it's amazing for something a 19 years old did almost all by himself.
Most modders don't make these huge sprawling mods because what they do is passion work. They're not paid for doing what they do and they just want to do X or Y. They don't want to spend all of their free time over two years developing a mod because it then turns into a job and for the industry professional amongst the community, that's already their job. They don't want more of that.
Am I saying that we'll likely see a huge, quality, expansion sized mod for CP2077? Not at all, even if there was very efficient tools available. All I'm saying is that to act as if it's because modders don't have the talent, technical know how or the experience to do so is just plain wrong.
With that said. You had it right when you said:
Not like there should be any competition or rivalry between developers and modders.
Threads like this one are just plain useless. There is no competition or rivalry. In fact, mod creators are largely thankful to CDPR for the game they released and the subsequent support of their hobby. Without CDPR, their creations wouldn't exist. It's the angry ones that create this false rivalry to drive their agenda. Modders themselves couldn't care less about "competing" with CDPR, that's not why they do what they do.
I didn't say that.
While they efforts are certainly admirable, it would never get close to what a team of professional writers and voice actors hired by CDPR could accomplish. And I've used Hearts of stone as the example.
That's not me being contemptuous, it's me being realistic. I don't hate modding, I don't hate modders, I've used mods in dozens and dozens of games.
So, to repeat: potential story expansion for Cyberpunk by a modding team would inevitably pale in comparison in quality and production value to the official one. That was my point, not that the mods suck or that modders are talentless bunch of amateurs.
So let me repeat again: you are wrong.
Your statement was that modders can't achieve the same level of quality regardless of tools or determination because they apparently can't match professional writers or paid voice actors.
I started with Falskaar but there are other examples.
Enderal: The Shards of Order which later became Enderal: Forgotten Stories. Forgotten Stories was released later and contains all of Shards of Order's content. Boasts 40+ hours of main story content and 90+ for the explorers out there. A solid darker tones fantasy story voiced by a solid cast of both semi-professional and professional voice actors(90 German and English VAs) who all accepted to do it for free. Like Lani Minella who has been voice acting since the mid 90s and has voiced characters in plenty of well known games or Michael Countryman, an actual actor who's had roles on Law&Order and Boardwalk Empire. Lara Trautmann who also did voice acting for... CP2077! Also, Philip Hurd-Wood who voiced King Foltest in the first Witcher game. Among many, many others.
It's also a complete overhaul of Skyrim. Creating it's own world, completely separated from the based game. Essentially being it's own game with an absolute metric ton of custom assets. Also is currently sitting at a 93+% rating on Steam. If you take into consideration that all of that is offered for free and was produced by a team of 14, the final product is absolutely phenomenal and puts plenty of AAA games to shame.
Nicholas Lietzau (the writer) has also started publishing actual Enderal novels that have received solid reviews so far. I have not read the book so I can't speak for it but the reviews certainly paint a great picture after having played Enderal.
I don't expect you to change your mind. I know better than that but you are wrong on this. Modders absolutely can produce high quality products that rival with, if not outperform, major games out there.
Again, to be clear, I am not saying modders will produce a better expansion size addition than CDPR. It's extremely unlikely. In large part because there is no tool worthy of that name currently available for CP2077, and I doubt there ever will at this point, but in much larger part because most modders that could produce something of equal quality have no interest in these large expansion sized mods and the incredible time commitment they require both to create and support.
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Ya so far i havent seen a single quest mod for Cp2077 and im guessing its because modders are lacking the tools too make them. Even if they got the tools im guessing it will be hard too make animations and so on since they use some third-party software for facial animations and motion capture too do other stuff.
Im not entierly sure but Creation engine has quite another way of doing it, they could possibly reuse the walk and so on animations already in the game (just like cdpr does) also im guessing the "cinematic" FPP walk and talk system kinda limits what you can do while modding...
Im not entierly sure but Creation engine has quite another way of doing it, they could possibly reuse the walk and so on animations already in the game (just like cdpr does
) also im guessing the "cinematic" FPP walk and talk system kinda limits what you can do while modding...All I can say, based on what I've seen from these two mods is: we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I think modders can't achieve the same level of quality than Devs who work for studios, because indeed, they don't have access to the same ressources/tools. Like in motor sports, amateur teams don't have "less talent", they just don't have the same means/ressources. So at the end, "amateur" teams can't compete in the same "category" than professional teams.
Let's say for Cyberpunk, Devs have to be sure that their content works on 3 (very) different platforms (PC/PS/XBOX) and be sure the new content don't break anything else in the game (or at least, as sure as possible^^). And that all the dialogues are available in the 11 languages which is clearly in my opision, not possible to achieve for modders (already require 22 different voice actors only for V voiced).
Tbh it depends on what they make. Voice acting and diffrent languages arent requred too make a good story. Also depends on what you would call quality, if you cant like a story because it doesnt have voice acting in 11 diffrent languages i guess its not quality for you if it doesnt have that. Most mods arent expansion sized tho and for assets/gfx/animations they can often beat the original work by a mile. I kinda agree with @GrimReaper801 that the big expansions for skyrim is very well made and rival Bethestas own expansions.
As too voice acting, theres actually tools too make it too:
What I mean, it's that it can't be any competition anyway.
About my "languages" example in Cyberpunk, I mean that Devs can't "avoid" to provide full voice acting (in all languages provided by the game), when modders can (and probably will anyway). I can't imagine the expansion only available in Polish... The same idea about tools that Devs have access and modders don't.
It's just not comparable and nothing to do with "talent/skill".
Well they could have done it in english only witch is pretty standard. And i kinda agree with resources, some modders manage too pull off stuff that devs have issues with too. But theres no competition, since these mods are free. They just do it for the love of the game or fun. Some have even gotten hired by game companys due too the great work they have done. I just think taht saying lower quality is kinda wrong, depends on the mod/game.
I could even say that the modders are particularly "smart" and resourceful because in Cyberpunk they manage to do really good things with very, very limited resources/tools.
And the fact that there is no quest mod in cyberpunk, probably means that it's "just" impossible to achieve for modders (until a modding tool will be released which is always planned I think).
It's the main reason, yes. Without proper tools, it's almost impossible to access the game in a way that would allow seamless addition of quests. It would likely require manual activation on the user's end through CET of many different components. Not an ideal scenario for end users and creators alike.
Im not entierly sure but Creation engine has quite another way of doing it, they could possibly reuse the walk and so on animations already in the game (just like cdpr does
I'm not too worried about animation or the way things currently work. If the goal was to provide tools in the same way Bethesda does, modders would be able to make use of JALI through the game. Other animations than those already in-game would likely require manual creation. Mocap isn't unheard of in the modders world but it is pretty rare.
I didn't expect this to go any other way. As I said, the goal was never to convince you otherwise. I know better than that.
That's the misconception here.
Plenty of mod creators are not amateurs. They are professionals. Gaming industry professionals. They have access to their tools and game development main resources are money and people. Modders don't work for money. I've had a modder give me a virtual tour of his in-home professional sound recording studio. The same thing you'd see at CDPR. In his house. Because the man is a professional and he often works from his place. There are certainly certain tools that are more rare or difficult to come by in the modder community. Like the aforementioned mocap. I know it's been done before but it's excessively rare.
You are right that the one resource they have a in short supply is people. Modding teams are rarely composed of more than 10 individuals. It doesn't mean they can't create something that would rival AAA games. It only means it would take them far more time and it's that part that most aren't willing to do and I don't blame 'em.
Very right on that. It's amazing what they've achieved with so little tools worthy of the name. That only goes to show what could be achieved with proper tools. CDPR delivered a great game but they also delivered an amazing world full of possibilities.