Thank you for the respect and continuing the conversation.
No need for thanks, it's a very interesting conversation and very few people are actually able to properly voice and discuss their stance without falling into the pitfalls of one side or another.
This is refreshing is what it is.
I feel though, for the reasons I listed, that anger can be a reasonable answer. And everyone is different, maybe pretending everything is fine and doing mental gymnastics to defend every single aspect of the game or company would be less healthy for a person that doesn't have the character for it. But I'm nitpicking this aspect to make a point, not as an answer to what you said, because you also recognize that atitude as maybe as bad. And that's where I think the anger still comes from. I get angry at that sometimes. At the fact that so many conversations that start by analyzing one aspect of the game, or the development of it,... end by some people coming in and saying the argument doesn't make sense because that game also does it, because covid, because... and then patch 1.5 changes things that were previously defended as they were but the new official is the new perfect version XD what bothers me is that any argument is seen as pro or counter, an attack or a defense, the same tribal radical and simplistic view that is contaminating everything.
I don't think these immediate defenders of any criticism realize the devs of the game, when they go out to read what the audiences are saying about the game, disregard them as useless feedback. What use is the opinion everything they do is perfect?
While I agree with almost 100% of this, I want to address two very minor point.
First, clarifying my position. I do believe that people who fall squarely into the definition of "fanboyism" (I hate the term but it is what it is and a very accurate depiction of some) are absolutely as detrimental as the "haters" (another term I hate). To the game and the developers. When I say I think one is "better" than the other, I mean that purely from an individual standpoint - for their own good. Being very angry over a video game for such a long time isn't mentally healthy behavior and I can't help but assume it translates into every aspect of their lives too and being angry at everything is just bad for you.
Just to re-iterate, I don't think you fall within that category at all.
Secondly, as much as I agree with you that there are people who go to great lengths to protect the game and shut down any conversation about the negative points... The reverse is true too. There are plenty who go to absurd lengths to attack the game and turn every conversation into "the game is crap and so is CDPR". Both are equally annoying in my mind. Neither is objective.
With that said, I believe it's "normal". In a "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" kind of way. One cannot exist without the other I presume.
About the question, what would it have changed?
In my opinion it would change these aspects in the community. They didn't shift to a humble position and establish dialogue with the community. Not as a company like, for example, Pawel Sazco started doing after awhile. As a company they talk to investors and players run after this. I saw somewhere back in the Witcher days there was a site (reddit of the time or something) where devs were in communication with players about the patches etc... I think a lot would have changed with this. I agree with you, actions are more important than words. But maintaining a conversation, having respect for the player base is more an action than a set of words in my opinion.
I understand your position and I, at least, partially agree with it but I have to wonder, would it really reflect on the community? My experiences point to the contrary. I do believe it would reflect on those who have been following CDPR for a long-time but the "newcomers" for lack of a better word.... I don't think it would change anything for them. At least, not in my experience.
On a personal/player level what would it have changed? If they had been more transparent about what the next patch had in store and more approximate date for when it would come out, I wouldn't have spent now weeks of not playing because maybe next patch is coming and I should reinstall and new character. Is it worth it finishing this character, should I put it away for now not to get tired of it because that feature will come later,... basically one of the best games I played, the actions of the company management made me have the worst kind of "relation" to interacting with it.
Well, that's another topic entirely. I do agree that at this point, it's probably time to open up communication channels more and see how it goes. Clear the air so to speak. Be a bit pro-active instead of reactive. As you mention below though, none of us has any clue as to the internal happenings at CDPR, and as someone with very intimate knowledge of the inner workings of corporate structures, I find it hard to blame them at this point in time.
And to answer to the popular opinion that the audience is very mean and stupid and if they kept talking they would continue being misinterpreted I say, that is also a consequence of the lack of honing their mistakes. They brushed off responsability in that 20 second apology and 7 minute justification video and went silent. People are actually very forgiving for those who really repent, but without that and silence, there will be speculation, and maybe not the best one.
I don't think most people consider the audience to be stupid but I do think the audience is mean. More specifically, I think the internet is mean and sometimes just plain evil. A lot of people turn into fucking animals because anonymity provides them with this sense of security and somehow invalidates common sense and decency for them.
I'm partially inclined to agree they brushed off responsibility with the apology video. The fact they made the video at all acknowledges
some degree of responsibility but I do feel like it was somewhat dismissive and didn't accurately picture how bad things were for many, especially on old-gen consoles. Few companies bother with apologizing and fewer actually do anything about it.
I'll take the currently debated FF14 as an example. It's launch was abysmal. The team behind it clearly didn't understand what people wanted out of an MMO. At all. It was just a badly designed game that looked good. SE, who isn't exactly in the habit of apologizing, offered their apologies and some compensation but then also turned around and changed the team in charge and rebuilt the game and eventually transformed it into the most successful MMO since 2020.
That's the perfect scenario - both an apology coupled with actions. Which I'd argue CDPR did. Again, maybe not to everyone's liking (you can't please everyone anyway) but there was an apology and the subsequent actions proved they were serious about it wouldn't you agree? If not, I'm curious, is there a point where CDPR could've done enough for you to accept and move on from their lack of a "proper" apology?
CDPR hasn't been very vocal either and I wouldn't be surprised if they have experience something similar.
Oooh, they have. That's fact. Probably still happening in fact.
