I'd take it also, if Costin decides not to. Also for curiosity's sake only, I don't plan on playing it.
I've just received an email with beta key. If anyone's interested, tell me.
I am playing beta now (thanks to Kudos for a beta key), and I really like it so far. It does not look like any other MMO I tried, and I don't even pay attention to other players. I am playing it as SP, and it is fine. To be honest, I don't even see a point now to have this game as MMO. I don't know for how long it will hold my interest, but I will definitely try the full version as soon as it is out. Hopefully they will give us 7-10 days for free, and if I am into it for real, I'll subscribe. It is the first MMO thus far I am even considering of buying. My PC is handling it on my preferred settings just fine,the game looks really well, and I have no fps drops, lags, disconnects, or anything of this sort.
I am a nasty cat with a big sword, as always. I really like that I can play either first person or OTS, and I prefer OTS. I get attached to my cat already and will keep him for the official game if I can.
I am a nasty cat with a big sword, as always. I really like that I can play either first person or OTS, and I prefer OTS. I get attached to my cat already and will keep him for the official game if I can.
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Even if the game recruited the very best voice actors out there, I'd still not give two shits.
I just wonder. Who the fuck asked for this game?
I hope it fails, and I hope it fails hard. I'm sick and tired of all these MMOs. We could've gotten much better games ffs, rather than yet another shitty WoW clone.
If anything, why didn't they make some kind of innovative Co-op game? Something where you have a home, you chill there, you create a character, pick your equipment, and then fuck off to the local tavern to meet some other players and embark on some journey. I mean seriously, for fuck sake, why does EVERY MMO have to be the same. The same hud, the same gameplay, the same talk about end game, the same hype about PvP (as if that's the mark of a quality MMO), the same theme park MMO presentation.
What a stagnant and creatively deprived genre. I don't care about what voice actors it has and I don't give a shit about the game in general.
Can't wait for Dark Souls 2 and Witcher 3. Proper games with narrative, gameplay and a fixed goal to provide something unique to the medium
I just wonder. Who the fuck asked for this game?
I hope it fails, and I hope it fails hard. I'm sick and tired of all these MMOs. We could've gotten much better games ffs, rather than yet another shitty WoW clone.
If anything, why didn't they make some kind of innovative Co-op game? Something where you have a home, you chill there, you create a character, pick your equipment, and then fuck off to the local tavern to meet some other players and embark on some journey. I mean seriously, for fuck sake, why does EVERY MMO have to be the same. The same hud, the same gameplay, the same talk about end game, the same hype about PvP (as if that's the mark of a quality MMO), the same theme park MMO presentation.
What a stagnant and creatively deprived genre. I don't care about what voice actors it has and I don't give a shit about the game in general.
Can't wait for Dark Souls 2 and Witcher 3. Proper games with narrative, gameplay and a fixed goal to provide something unique to the medium
But isn't that the biggest fucking crime an MMO can commit? If you're playing it as if it was an Singleplayer game, why the fuck does it have to be an MMO for then? The essence of an MMO is to force players to engage with each other and make sure that it is creative and enjoyable for everyone. It's a theme park MMO, so it's going to rely on players finding the questing and dungeons exciting and obviously grinding is gonna be a big factor (an aspect I'm absolutely sick off).
The future of MMO's are sandboxes. You know, like EVE Online is. An MMO where the players ARE the quest givers. They are the conflict creators. They are autonomous and free to pursue their own agenda, rather than being told what to do. And contrasting that with what other players want, a lot of cool shit can happen. The hight of drama is conflict, and if you create a game where there's something special for everyone which you really want to possess, and some other dude wants it too, real cool stuff can happen. Magic man. I implore anyone interested in sandbox MMO design to read up on the crazy cool shit that happens in EVE as a result of the players being free to pursue their own agendas.
More games should opt for that design approach yet no one is... I don't get it.
Fuck it, I'll just leave this video here.
Glad to hear it isn't that bad of a game. I won't play it because I refuse to pay monthly fees for any videogame, but I have to ask: does it have a decent character creator?
I would say that part at least of the game is horrible. Also the world feels...kinda empty.
Towns and Villages are bigger though at least then in Skyrim.
This. So much this.
Making MMOs out of popular franchises is a hell of a risk. If it bombs, not only does a fuckload of money go down the shitter but the franchise is also stained. World of Warcraft worked because it took the MMO concept and made it palatable for the masses. Of course the franchise mattered too but you simply can't just replicate that success anymore.
No matter how good the TRADITIONAL formula gets (as evidenced in Mists of Pandaria), there needs to be something completely new for MMOs to make WoW players even consider abandoning their MMO. MOP's gameplay is as good and fun as it's ever been but even WoW players are getting tired of the same formula - even if it's good. A NEW MMO needs to do a whole lot more than being a good traditional MMO.
Do Bethesda really expect me to abandon my orc shaman in which I have poured 270 days of game time? The game not only needs to be good, it needs to be spectacular and from what I've seen TESO is not that.
I also think the subscription model was a spectacularly stupid idea. The game simply isn't worth 15 dollars a month PLUS the game. As a F2P it would have been one of the best out there though and I really feel it's gonna go F2P really soon.
I would have liked a 4 player coop mode for a TES game a whole lot more, instead they make this.
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Yeah, subscription is something I really do not like. If it were free-to-play, I wouldn't hesitate for a second. Right now I am ready to play a free period and see how it will turn out.
For the record, I do not like MMOs. So I do not mind playing it as SP, with occasional coop or something.
For the record, I do not like MMOs. So I do not mind playing it as SP, with occasional coop or something.
As a veteran MMO player I strongly disagree with the notion that a free 2 play MMO is a good idea. Name me one that has done it without becoming pay to win, or being a complete shit of a game if you don't spend money on it.
Guild Wars 2 is not free to play. You have to buy the game, and also it does nickel and dime people with it's shop.
Subscription is the best MMO model, IF the developer does not also charge you for extra content like pets/mounts etc. WoW does this and get's away with it given it's strong fanbase, but other MMOS...not so much.
Guild Wars 2 is not free to play. You have to buy the game, and also it does nickel and dime people with it's shop.
Subscription is the best MMO model, IF the developer does not also charge you for extra content like pets/mounts etc. WoW does this and get's away with it given it's strong fanbase, but other MMOS...not so much.
I have to (partially) agree there, after all the developer has to make the money somewhere. However, the fixed $15/mo fee has never appealed to me, I'd just end up feeling guilty for not taking advantage of the time I paid for. I tried free-to-play MMOs before and man, they were bad.
GW1 and GW2 are the only MMOs I played for real, though I have a lot of second-hand experience with WoW, and I'd spent quite a bit of time explaining GW2 to WoW refugees and getting headaches over some of its mechanics. It's interesting seeing different reactions - some get excited that there is no stat grind, no shared loot/nodes, no insta-death, no competing against others (in PvE, that is). Others frown, because that's what keeps them going in such games.
I've been reading a bit about ESO over the past few days and it seems what people dislike is that it follows known models all too closely. So the question is: why would people pay the $15 subscription for a reskinned MMO? Yes, WoW gets away with a lot, but there are reasons for that. I wonder if other MMOs would do better with a lower fee, or a combination of lower fee and a quality cash shop. But knowing Bethsda's practice of keeping their Elder Scrolls prices as high as possible for years and years, I guess we'll never find out.
GW1 and GW2 are the only MMOs I played for real, though I have a lot of second-hand experience with WoW, and I'd spent quite a bit of time explaining GW2 to WoW refugees and getting headaches over some of its mechanics. It's interesting seeing different reactions - some get excited that there is no stat grind, no shared loot/nodes, no insta-death, no competing against others (in PvE, that is). Others frown, because that's what keeps them going in such games.
I've been reading a bit about ESO over the past few days and it seems what people dislike is that it follows known models all too closely. So the question is: why would people pay the $15 subscription for a reskinned MMO? Yes, WoW gets away with a lot, but there are reasons for that. I wonder if other MMOs would do better with a lower fee, or a combination of lower fee and a quality cash shop. But knowing Bethsda's practice of keeping their Elder Scrolls prices as high as possible for years and years, I guess we'll never find out.
Ok, I respect the nda and keep my word, but I'll discuss a few things in the public domain from a gamers point of view, other details will have to wait. The nda is lifted for media, and I suspect for the rest of us soon as the last beta didn't have our identifier seeded throughout the screen. A few general points first: I've beta'd many MMO's, beginning with 6 months of WoW (those and the first 3 months were an amazing time), lotro, eve, e&b, WARrggh, more I no longer recall. I subbed codemasters Lotro for 2 years and agree it's the better model for real content updates, improved community, and just general vibe, and the righteousness to demand dev action. Mostly I last only a few months with perhaps a winter month return yearly. Tor I lasted a month sub - I had the sense not to buy until 9 months post release, it was obvious it was rushed out the door even though I hadn't beta'd that one, it was going to be a bit longer but I wanted in before it went F2P, enjoyed the SP & some story and maxed quite a few toons, discovered endgame was non-existent, raids unchallenging, and it suffered from a generally toxic atmosphere, never could make enough friends to lift it out of the rut. Eve, although I've only subbed for 4 months since release - due really to not being able to devote the required time to it for many years post release - is the best MMO there has been IMHO, for complexity, unforgiving ruleset, & player freedom. But it intimidates me to get to grips with it in it's later years, just haven't got the time. Great community though. Lotro Europe, on the Snowbourn server we betas populated had the best community I've ever met in an online game. The gameplay was fun, particularly group play, the story adequate, the world faithful, The Rift when it appeared my favourite raid ever, thursday & sunday nights raiding that dungeon with some excellent international players remains one of my fondest multiplayer experiences. Moria was great too, excellent underground design, though wick dungeon grind originally. Best clan I've ever been in "The Last Alliance" also known as The Grumpy Old Gits, are still people I miss, and were hard to leave, but F2P - although reasonably implemented - and moving to Turbine, killed it for me.
Plus I'm one of those Morrowind nuts. Daggerfall was my first but buggy as hell, all I really got out of that was the impression this world was for me, if only I could rely on it to work, and it meant MW was an anticipated game bought day 0, and on my desktop to this day. Not my first Open World though, I was an eleven year old Commander Jameson, I was Elite.
And heres the thing, Community will make or break Teso imo, and theres a chance it may achieve the quality I experienced in Lotro, due to the age of many TES fans ameliorating the emotional excesses of the console generation, although the one shard thing - is there one chat for everyone in a zone? I assume so but still not sure, and that could seriously backfire. Among other things because attracting from beyond the MMO regulars will be necessary for success, and they may have trouble guilding. The TES series has a lot of single player only types, who really should try it, but might not stay.
Because it is a good game, far superior to 'rim & OB, better than Morrowind? I'm going to say yes. Graphics obviously. Story is back with a vengeance, Failure is back, books are there & expanded appropriately, NPC's are generally interesting and there are non-generic MMO quests - it seems to me the majority are so, the World changes as you act in a rather subtle way with the curious implementation of instancing that is more like a "layering" of each players game over another. If theres mobs in an area you've to kill for a quest implying you are clearing the area and you complete the quest, the mobs disappear, and appropriate changes may begin. Often you only see other players around quest givers, but just for a split second, you could almost - and probably do most of the time - miss their brief appearance as the layering divides you, it isn't jarring.
@Dona; I disagree "that it follows known models all too closely" if that refers to mechanics, I really don't see that. True theres MMOs I haven't seen especially recently (GW / TSW / I really don't follow these things too closely anymore). A lot of people in beta didn't seem to grasp a basic mechanic of the game, you have five action slots at any time, thats basically all the skills you can bring to a battle, there's no way to quick swap this action bar, and though add ons are in the menu I doubt such will be modded in as what you have slotted is what advances in level. Leveling up, new skill acquisition through numerous methods, and how you can individualise your character is all out there (heavy armour mages etc is your choice, you level the skills you decide to use), and I find it novel. I didn't spend much time on creation screen, just enough to see there was the largest amount of sliders effecting vertices that I think I've ever seen, but theres an official vid of that out I thought. PVE agro seems to be as you'd expect, The Trinity is valid but is it the only way? Perhaps not.
Who has been asking for this game? Just about every TES fan not stubbornly wedded to SP. TBH I prefer the idea of SP for TES, but realise this, I've been a fan for 20 years, and ignoring the procedural DF, this is the only way we can reasonably expect to see all Tamriel in any of our lifetimes. Reason enough to give the game a try, at least for the box month. Will it last, I dunno, but the combat both FP & OTS has been fun for me, and if collision detection makes it into PVP that might be the best ever. Crafting is frigging excellent... grind? wtf is that? Doing Stacks over dinner? Thing of the past. Make what you need, no more.
Among beta the chief discussion appears to be the pricing model, my stated opinion is they should drop the sub by half, that would solve the issue for most of us I think, but knowing the suits ruling over there it seems highly unlikely they'd take my advice. But if you think about it, theres a lot more than one game in there by TES' single province standard.
That'll do I think, yep there's important to MMO'er's stuff I haven't discussed, that'll just have to wait.
Plus I'm one of those Morrowind nuts. Daggerfall was my first but buggy as hell, all I really got out of that was the impression this world was for me, if only I could rely on it to work, and it meant MW was an anticipated game bought day 0, and on my desktop to this day. Not my first Open World though, I was an eleven year old Commander Jameson, I was Elite.
And heres the thing, Community will make or break Teso imo, and theres a chance it may achieve the quality I experienced in Lotro, due to the age of many TES fans ameliorating the emotional excesses of the console generation, although the one shard thing - is there one chat for everyone in a zone? I assume so but still not sure, and that could seriously backfire. Among other things because attracting from beyond the MMO regulars will be necessary for success, and they may have trouble guilding. The TES series has a lot of single player only types, who really should try it, but might not stay.
Because it is a good game, far superior to 'rim & OB, better than Morrowind? I'm going to say yes. Graphics obviously. Story is back with a vengeance, Failure is back, books are there & expanded appropriately, NPC's are generally interesting and there are non-generic MMO quests - it seems to me the majority are so, the World changes as you act in a rather subtle way with the curious implementation of instancing that is more like a "layering" of each players game over another. If theres mobs in an area you've to kill for a quest implying you are clearing the area and you complete the quest, the mobs disappear, and appropriate changes may begin. Often you only see other players around quest givers, but just for a split second, you could almost - and probably do most of the time - miss their brief appearance as the layering divides you, it isn't jarring.
@Dona; I disagree "that it follows known models all too closely" if that refers to mechanics, I really don't see that. True theres MMOs I haven't seen especially recently (GW / TSW / I really don't follow these things too closely anymore). A lot of people in beta didn't seem to grasp a basic mechanic of the game, you have five action slots at any time, thats basically all the skills you can bring to a battle, there's no way to quick swap this action bar, and though add ons are in the menu I doubt such will be modded in as what you have slotted is what advances in level. Leveling up, new skill acquisition through numerous methods, and how you can individualise your character is all out there (heavy armour mages etc is your choice, you level the skills you decide to use), and I find it novel. I didn't spend much time on creation screen, just enough to see there was the largest amount of sliders effecting vertices that I think I've ever seen, but theres an official vid of that out I thought. PVE agro seems to be as you'd expect, The Trinity is valid but is it the only way? Perhaps not.
Who has been asking for this game? Just about every TES fan not stubbornly wedded to SP. TBH I prefer the idea of SP for TES, but realise this, I've been a fan for 20 years, and ignoring the procedural DF, this is the only way we can reasonably expect to see all Tamriel in any of our lifetimes. Reason enough to give the game a try, at least for the box month. Will it last, I dunno, but the combat both FP & OTS has been fun for me, and if collision detection makes it into PVP that might be the best ever. Crafting is frigging excellent... grind? wtf is that? Doing Stacks over dinner? Thing of the past. Make what you need, no more.
Among beta the chief discussion appears to be the pricing model, my stated opinion is they should drop the sub by half, that would solve the issue for most of us I think, but knowing the suits ruling over there it seems highly unlikely they'd take my advice. But if you think about it, theres a lot more than one game in there by TES' single province standard.
That'll do I think, yep there's important to MMO'er's stuff I haven't discussed, that'll just have to wait.
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Unexpected last minute beta this weekend, the NDA has been lifted from this beta (so if anyones got a specific question, ask) but it may return in future. This beta seems to be just a stress test as the game seems almost identical to the last time, actually that's a point I meant to make in the above, of all the betas i've been involved in this one has been run the best.
Short controlled betas are better than the mmo standard months & years (which has more to do with marketing imo), too many people are there to try out or play, not test.. Teso devs send out a questionnaire after each session and judging from the - excellent - questions included - some are asked each & every survey, some are added just for that session - i'm left with the impression that these guys have some serious project management skills engaged here. Of course they have their own vision and what we finally get will be mostly that, but they are polling the gamers for views & responding to them, for instance general difficulty has been consistently rising. Collision Detection is being trialled for npcs this weekend (the only significant mechanic altered since last beta), and hopefully this is just the scenic route for its PvP implementation next.
I dunno.... Is there any other game out there that lets - any amount - of people fight eachother in a way resembling Skyrims sword & shield gameplay (free targeting, skill use based on stamina / magicka, light strike / heavy strike / interrupt / block) ? 'Cos forget everything else if Collision Detection makes it to Cyrodil (a friggin' insanely massive PvP map, with ~30 major keeps & ~100 other capturable locations... I'm still thinking this PvP might be the best.
Oh and first to PM me gets a beta invite code.
Short controlled betas are better than the mmo standard months & years (which has more to do with marketing imo), too many people are there to try out or play, not test.. Teso devs send out a questionnaire after each session and judging from the - excellent - questions included - some are asked each & every survey, some are added just for that session - i'm left with the impression that these guys have some serious project management skills engaged here. Of course they have their own vision and what we finally get will be mostly that, but they are polling the gamers for views & responding to them, for instance general difficulty has been consistently rising. Collision Detection is being trialled for npcs this weekend (the only significant mechanic altered since last beta), and hopefully this is just the scenic route for its PvP implementation next.
I dunno.... Is there any other game out there that lets - any amount - of people fight eachother in a way resembling Skyrims sword & shield gameplay (free targeting, skill use based on stamina / magicka, light strike / heavy strike / interrupt / block) ? 'Cos forget everything else if Collision Detection makes it to Cyrodil (a friggin' insanely massive PvP map, with ~30 major keeps & ~100 other capturable locations... I'm still thinking this PvP might be the best.
Oh and first to PM me gets a beta invite code.
I got another invite code and gave it to my brother, and I made a character and played a bit today.
The character creator is OK, but I found it very hard to vary faces. I tried to re-create my Skyrim character and it was impossible, and for some reasons High Elves no longer can have pitch black eyes, which disappointed me. I liked the shiny accessories and skin/face markings.
Other than that, it plays a lot like Skyrim, and other people commented that it reminds them of Morrowind, which is oddly true. Overall, I am not impressed, my character looked weird, graphics are washed out, and the gameplay was extremely clunky and slow. The world felt empty. I don't really know how to describe it... it's definitely Skyrim-like, very single-player-ish (in the beginning, at least), just overall not a game I'd be willing to pay $15/mo for, or even play for too long. I had some fun unleashing my inner puzzle jumper and found ~hidden places up some rocks and such, but that's about as fun as it gets, as the controls feel very imprecise and clunky.
The character creator is OK, but I found it very hard to vary faces. I tried to re-create my Skyrim character and it was impossible, and for some reasons High Elves no longer can have pitch black eyes, which disappointed me. I liked the shiny accessories and skin/face markings.
Other than that, it plays a lot like Skyrim, and other people commented that it reminds them of Morrowind, which is oddly true. Overall, I am not impressed, my character looked weird, graphics are washed out, and the gameplay was extremely clunky and slow. The world felt empty. I don't really know how to describe it... it's definitely Skyrim-like, very single-player-ish (in the beginning, at least), just overall not a game I'd be willing to pay $15/mo for, or even play for too long. I had some fun unleashing my inner puzzle jumper and found ~hidden places up some rocks and such, but that's about as fun as it gets, as the controls feel very imprecise and clunky.
I know... it's weird eh !
Apart from the melee combat which is of course very similar, magic is totally different I think (although magic was so rubbish in 'rim I could be forgetting it), I could only agree with you that It plays like 'rim if you metagame your 'rim into something more than it is vanilla... 'rim not really having any significant character choices unless you force them upon yourself. While the beta is capped at L17, &16 has been my highest level, so i've - we've - absolutely no idea how the game might change over higher levels, it certainly looks like it would be impossible to level every skill - even to just a usable level, or even just the ones you would like - this alone makes 'rim comparisons meaningless to me. Maybe I've missed something by not trying GW or TSW, but last I knew Tabula Rasa was the only non-sticky targeting MMO and it's deceased. Didn't other people tell you it follows mmo mechanics too closely yet you feel Skyrim...? it can't be both.
Don't misunderstand me, there are elements in the game I am not convinced about, but as it's beta these things may change, I haven't yet preordered, it's unlikely that I will or that i'll check it out anywhere near release, more likely next year after TW3, if there is any gaming after that
. Like any game you need to be in the mood, and like I tried to point out in my earlier post MMO's rely on more aspects for success than other games that may succeed on mechanics or story alone. In MMOs community is particularly important, it's the ultimate reason i've subbed and paid a company far more than their effort was worth, so I'm waiting for either some friends to go explore with or until after a suitable grace period post launch when the dust has settled its community can be tested for toxicity.
Thing is, I have a sneaky suspicion I can't shake that the MMO community in general has accrued dangerous levels of toxicity anyway, it just seems to destroy everything it touches recently.
I haven't played enough to use magic, though to be fair I have never used it much in any of the TES games. Funny because I always play a High Elf.
I do feel the overall game is like a regular MMO, it is the UI and quest/marker system that reminded me of Skyrim. They use the same graphics, similar conversation panel, same key bindings... but when you scratch beneath that, it's a classic MMO, if that makes sense. So yes, it can be both.
The clunkiness and non-impressive world is what really got to me, and I won't be looking itno TESO anymore for those reasons. I'm curious about what group fights look like, though, because I haven't been in one.
As for the MMO community, there will always be toxic people, especially considering the age of the players. GW2 is probably the least toxic because the game itself promotes friendliness and helpfulness. We do get some crazy cookies, but it's never been too bad. It boils down to gameplay and mechanics, as it turns out - if no-one can 'steal' your loot and gathering nodes, if you get rewarded for resurrecting other people, if group play benefits everyone - there is no reason to be angry at everything and everyone around you.
I do feel the overall game is like a regular MMO, it is the UI and quest/marker system that reminded me of Skyrim. They use the same graphics, similar conversation panel, same key bindings... but when you scratch beneath that, it's a classic MMO, if that makes sense. So yes, it can be both.
The clunkiness and non-impressive world is what really got to me, and I won't be looking itno TESO anymore for those reasons. I'm curious about what group fights look like, though, because I haven't been in one.
As for the MMO community, there will always be toxic people, especially considering the age of the players. GW2 is probably the least toxic because the game itself promotes friendliness and helpfulness. We do get some crazy cookies, but it's never been too bad. It boils down to gameplay and mechanics, as it turns out - if no-one can 'steal' your loot and gathering nodes, if you get rewarded for resurrecting other people, if group play benefits everyone - there is no reason to be angry at everything and everyone around you.
Hi Dona. I played the beta this weekend also. I didn't think it was very Skyrim-like or first-person-playable at all. Can I ask which alliance you were playing? I've heard the Dominion starter areas are better, but in Ebonheart Pact, it all grew same-y and grindy very fast. The classes felt confining and did not seem to me to be well thought-out. Dragon Knight was fun but anything else I tried was very lacking, and there was nothing that suited an archer. I didn't get to use magic much but I really didn't like the pause to summon a spell. With the amount of grindy combat you have to endure, that's just too much and not like the satisfying quick fireball in TESV (though now I recall I have a mod to make casting quicker in Skyrim too...)
The same-ness became especially apparent when I tried to make an orc. After the first adjustment to the look of Stros M'kai, I felt like I was doing the exact same quests as before.
All in all, the best I can say is- it's an MMO. The Elder Scrolls veneer is very thin. I could have easily convinced myself I was in LOTRO. The books and dialogue about lore seem inch deep. Example, on Bleakrock the Nords talk about the old gods, but the wayshrines are the same as they are anywhere and those only serve as fast-travel and revive machines. There's no sense of deep, developed cultures and subcultures. I think if people enjoy grouping and guilding, maybe they can make something of the game. Otherwise I would be bored to tears. As a comparison, I recently played the Falskaar mod and it was much more fun and engaging, with more thoughtful quest design.