Oversexualizaton in Cyberpunk

[thewarsend]

Guys, guys please calm down. Relationship and sex stuff is a big part of Cyberpunk, but it is not the whole cyberpunk. From what i read from "some" of Azriel's posts, (i'm sure he didn't mean as such) he would almost suggest cybernetics should be replaced with sex and we should get upgrades after watching cyberporn and sex minigames with lots of... Sorry, i lost my train of thought, what was i saying?

Oh, yeah.. Cyberpunk is not a game that can be simplified as such. It has much more dept and complexity than that. While i wouldn't want undersexualization of cyberpunk, while i didn't think it was possible to oversexualize it until now, i just realize it is just as bad. Sexualization should be just right. A lot more than Witcher 2, but a lot less than a.. i don't know... a... sex game.. thing? Anyway, jokes aside and in all seriousness, we are all adults and there should be good amount of mature content but it is important to keep it balanced and not over do it. I doubt i would watch anything like cyber porn or whatever in game.

By the way, i just realized that the title is misspelled.. Cannot be unseen..

Oh, totally. That's how I always win arguments—baiting until someone says something stupid and indefensible. Would you believe that you're the first person to call me out on it? That's actually kind of surprising now that I think about it.

But he started it. For real this time!

You sly dog! Is that how you win our argument about potatoes? Not to mention our argument about quantum entanglement!
I knew it!

CD are the right for the job, as you said the already profed it with their Witcher games, they know how to handle sexual content

I fully agree.

 

[227]

By the way, i just realized that the title is misspelled.. Cannot be unseen..

That's... seriously going to bother me now that you've pointed it out.

You sly dog! Is that how you win our argument about potatoes? I knew it!

We've never argued about potatoes. Never. NOT ONCE.

I know this because I haven't been able to talk about potatoes ever since a potato cannon killed my father. Now I look at them in all their starchy glory and see only a maelstrom of death and despair, a reminder of our mortality and the inevitable end we must all one day face. Because potatoes.

 

[ReptilePZ]

Wow, you must really hate Samwise then.

 

[braindancer12]

We've never argued about potatoes. Never. NOT ONCE.

I know this because I haven't been able to talk about potatoes ever since a potato cannon killed my father. Now I look at them in all their starchy glory and see only a maelstrom of death and despair, a reminder of our mortality and the inevitable end we must all one day face. Because potatoes.

looks like the time has finally come.....the age of potatoes!

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I think that some of the best discussion in this thread has come up in the last 2 or 3 pages.

Azriel, 2872489242 and U-571, have all made good points, (as have other members.) Overall I would like to think we can agree on the following as a consensus for 2077:


- The use of sexualised images, footage, (not to be confused with actual imagary of sex itself,) and the 'implication' of the act itself should be expected to be used prevelantly in advertising, (and to a greater extent than today.)

- Actual sexual acts should not be 'abundant' and not 'usually' to be carried out in public. They should be reserved for 'appropriate' venues such as brothels, strip clubs, parlours and private residences. The very occasional drunk couple in a dark alley could potentially be acceptable.

- With affluence comes the illusion of self restraint. The social elite may have more wealth and power but they are just as depraved, if not more so. However, this is doubtlessly not the public image that said social elite would wish to portray. We can probably expect there to be much more 'modesty' visable in the higher class areas. That being said there would still be plenty of that kind of 'product' available if you know where to look, or it will be advertised in a much more 'tasteful' manner.

- In lower class areas modesty should probably take a back seat. Pimps, prostitues, drug dealers and illicit braindance dealers all mixing it up on the strip.

- Sexual devience and fetishes can be expected to be both varied and creative. People are always looking to push boundries. An underground market for simulated, (and probably actual,) taboo/illicit sexual acts, (possibly including snuff,) can reasonably be expected. (Think '8mm' and 'Strange Days'.)

- Sexualisation in fashion can probably be expected to exceed current day trends, but that is not to say that it will appeal to everyone, (or even all the time.) It may also be reasonable to assume that ones sexuality could play a much more important role in establishing ones identity.

- It should be reasonable to assume that 'alternative' sexualities, (including homosexuality, bisexuality, polyamory and asexuality,) should be much more accepted than in current society and carry much less stigma.


How does this summary sit with everyone?

 

[azriel77]

Guys, guys please calm down. Relationship and sex stuff is a big part of Cyberpunk, but it is not the whole cyberpunk. From what i read from "some" of Azriel's posts, (i'm sure he didn't mean as such) he would almost suggest cybernetics should be replaced with sex and we should get upgrades after watching cyberporn and sex minigames with lots of... Sorry, i lost my train of thought, what was i saying?

I never suggested that, I just said the game should not be toned down to appease the morale crusaders.

Oh, yeah.. Cyberpunk is not a game that can be simplified as such. It has much more dept and complexity than that. While i wouldn't want undersexualization of cyberpunk, while i didn't think it was possible to oversexualize it until now, i just realize it is just as bad. Sexualization should be just right. A lot more than Witcher 2, but a lot less than a.. i don't know... a... sex game.. thing? Anyway, jokes aside and in all seriousness, we are all adults and there should be good amount of mature content but it is important to keep it balanced and not over do it. I doubt i would watch anything like cyber porn or whatever in game.
.

That is pretty much what I have been saying.

 

[braindancer12]

I think that some of the best discussion in this thread has come up in the last 2 or 3 pages.

Azriel, 2872489242 and U-571, have all made good points, (as have other members.) Overall I would like to think we can agree on the following as a consensus for 2077:


- The use of sexualised images, footage, (not to be confused with actual imagary of sex itself,) and the 'implication' of the act itself should be expected to be used prevelantly in advertising, (and to a greater extent than today.)

- Actual sexual acts should not be 'abundant' and not 'usually' to be carried out in public. They should be reserved for 'appropriate' venues such as brothels, strip clubs, parlours and private residences. The very occasional drunk couple in a dark alley could potentially be acceptable.

- With affluence comes the illusion of self restraint. The social elite may have more wealth and power but they are just as depraved, if not more so. However, this is doubtlessly not the public image that said social elite would wish to portray. We can probably expect there to be much more 'modesty' visable in the higher class areas. That being said there would still be plenty of that kind of 'product' available if you know where to look, or it will be advertised in a much more 'tasteful' manner.

- In lower class areas modesty should probably take a back seat. Pimps, prostitues, drug dealers and illicit braindance dealers all mixing it up on the strip.

- Sexual devience and fetishes can be expected to be both varied and creative. People are always looking to push boundries. An underground market for simulated, (and probably actual,) taboo/illicit sexual acts, (possibly including snuff,) can reasonably be expected. (Think '8mm' and 'Strange Days'.)

- Sexualisation in fashion can probably be expected to exceed current day trends, but that is not to say that it will appeal to everyone, (or even all the time.) It may also be reasonable to assume that ones sexuality could play a much more important role in establishing ones identity.

- It should be reasonable to assume that 'alternative' sexualities, (including homosexuality, bisexuality, polyamory and asexuality,) should be much more accepted than in current society and carry much less stigma.


How does this summary sit with everyone?

first thanks for the summery chris, great job as ever

i think can agree to most of this and its awesome to see the different viewpoints on this topic, Azriel, 2872489242 and U-571 and other members really got good points about the sexuality

 

[azriel77]

I think that some of the best discussion in this thread has come up in the last 2 or 3 pages.

Azriel, 2872489242 and U-571, have all made good points, (as have other members.) Overall I would like to think we can agree on the following as a consensus for 2077:


- The use of sexualised images, footage, (not to be confused with actual imagary of sex itself,) and the 'implication' of the act itself should be expected to be used prevelantly in advertising, (and to a greater extent than today.)

- Actual sexual acts should not be 'abundant' and not 'usually' to be carried out in public. They should be reserved for 'appropriate' venues such as brothels, strip clubs, parlours and private residences. The very occasional drunk couple in a dark alley could potentially be acceptable.

- With affluence comes the illusion of self restraint. The social elite may have more wealth and power but they are just as depraved, if not more so. However, this is doubtlessly not the public image that said social elite would wish to portray. We can probably expect there to be much more 'modesty' visable in the higher class areas. That being said there would still be plenty of that kind of 'product' available if you know where to look, or it will be advertised in a much more 'tasteful' manner.

- In lower class areas modesty should probably take a back seat. Pimps, prostitues, drug dealers and illicit braindance dealers all mixing it up on the strip.

- Sexual devience and fetishes can be expected to be both varied and creative. People are always looking to push boundries. An underground market for simulated, (and probably actual,) taboo/illicit sexual acts, (possibly including snuff,) can reasonably be expected. (Think '8mm' and 'Strange Days'.)

- Sexualisation in fashion can probably be expected to exceed current day trends, but that is not to say that it will appeal to everyone, (or even all the time.) It may also be reasonable to assume that ones sexuality could play a much more important role in establishing ones identity.

- It should be reasonable to assume that 'alternative' sexualities, (including homosexuality, bisexuality, polyamory and asexuality,) should be much more accepted than in current society and carry much less stigma.


How does this summary sit with everyone?

This is really good and I agree with this mostly, It was not mentioned, but I would argue the internet would be a wildcard area just considering what is on the net now and what technology is like in the books.

 

[Decatonkeil]

I think that some of the best discussion in this thread has come up in the last 2 or 3 pages.

Azriel, 2872489242 and U-571, have all made good points, (as have other members.) Overall I would like to think we can agree on the following as a consensus for 2077:


- The use of sexualised images, footage, (not to be confused with actual imagary of sex itself,) and the 'implication' of the act itself should be expected to be used prevelantly in advertising, (and to a greater extent than today.)

- Actual sexual acts should not be 'abundant' and not 'usually' to be carried out in public. They should be reserved for 'appropriate' venues such as brothels, strip clubs, parlours and private residences. The very occasional drunk couple in a dark alley could potentially be acceptable.

- With affluence comes the illusion of self restraint. The social elite may have more wealth and power but they are just as depraved, if not more so. However, this is doubtlessly not the public image that said social elite would wish to portray. We can probably expect there to be much more 'modesty' visable in the higher class areas. That being said there would still be plenty of that kind of 'product' available if you know where to look, or it will be advertised in a much more 'tasteful' manner.

- In lower class areas modesty should probably take a back seat. Pimps, prostitues, drug dealers and illicit braindance dealers all mixing it up on the strip.

- Sexual devience and fetishes can be expected to be both varied and creative. People are always looking to push boundries. An underground market for simulated, (and probably actual,) taboo/illicit sexual acts, (possibly including snuff,) can reasonably be expected. (Think '8mm' and 'Strange Days'.)

- Sexualisation in fashion can probably be expected to exceed current day trends, but that is not to say that it will appeal to everyone, (or even all the time.) It may also be reasonable to assume that ones sexuality could play a much more important role in establishing ones identity.

- It should be reasonable to assume that 'alternative' sexualities, (including homosexuality, bisexuality, polyamory and asexuality,) should be much more accepted than in current society and carry much less stigma.


How does this summary sit with everyone?

Nah, people at home connected to XXX Braindance with their pants all jizzed and shit. The real thing is so demanding!

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

This is really good and I agree with this mostly, It was not mentioned, but I would argue the internet would be a wildcard area just considering what is on the net now and what technology is like in the books.

Good point.

I am not sure about how the net will be portrayed. In 2024, the net effectively went to hell with the Data Krash. I would like to see the net work in a manner somewhere between GitS's cyberspace and how it worked in 2020. If that does happen then I would like to 'travel' to nodes and intereact with data caches/forts like they are some sort of localised environment/building. In that situation I would kind of expect sexual content to be represented in a similar manner to 'real life'.

Nah, people at home connected to XXX Braindance with their pants all jizzed and shit. The real thing is so demanding!

Now, I am not saying that XXX-Braindance would not be common, it would probably be very common. However, there will always be those who will not be satisfied with anything less than the 'real thing', no matter how good the simulation. Remember this scene?

Hell, the real ting may end up being cheaper than Braindance. Afterall it is all but impossible to impose any sort of 'consistency' in that situation. There are just too many factors.

This would apply to all things though, not just sex, but just about every emotional and/or physical experience.

 

[227]

- With affluence comes the illusion of self restraint.

Great line. Says so much in so little.

An underground market for simulated, (and probably actual,) taboo/illicit sexual acts, (possibly including snuff,) can reasonably be expected.

I could get on board with something like that, but with a caveat; something like that would probably have to play a role in the overarching story lest it come across as superfluous fan service. If you listen closely, you can hear the sound of FOX news getting an erection over the mere possibility of having fresh fuel for their anti-game hate machine.

Looking back, Vampire: Bloodlines handled a bit of snuff stuff relatively well, and the reason it worked so well was that it tied into the story. The sexuality was also handled decently in that game, being prevalent without ever coming across as egregious or unexplained (for example, V.V. and how she's more than just the sex doll she pretends to be).

The only other thing I could disagree with in your post would be the occasional drunk couple having sex in a dark alley, but I'd totally be on board with that if given the opportunity to mug them in their moment of vulnerability. Opportunism > good taste.

 

[braindancer12]

Good point.

I am not sure about how the net will be portrayed. In 2024, the net effectively went to hell with the Data Krash. I would like to see the net work in a manner somewhere between GitS's cyberspace and how it worked in 2020. If that does happen then I would like to 'travel' to nodes and intereact with data caches/forts like they are some sort of localised environment/building. In that situation I would kind of expect sexual content to be represented in a similar manner to 'real life'.



Now, I am not saying that XXX-Braindance would not be common, it would probably be very common. However, there will always be those who will not be satisfied with anything less than the 'real thing', no matter how good the simulation. Remember this scene?

Hell, the real ting may end up being cheaper than Braindance. Afterall it is all but impossible to impose any sort of 'consistency' in that situation. There are just too many factors.

This would apply to all things though, not just sex, but just about every emotional and/or physical experience.

good point chris

 

[thewarsend]

I think that some of the best discussion in this thread has come up in the last 2 or 3 pages.

Azriel, 2872489242 and U-571, have all made good points, (as have other members.) Overall I would like to think we can agree on the following as a consensus for 2077:


- The use of sexualised images, footage, (not to be confused with actual imagary of sex itself,) and the 'implication' of the act itself should be expected to be used prevelantly in advertising, (and to a greater extent than today.)

- Actual sexual acts should not be 'abundant' and not 'usually' to be carried out in public. They should be reserved for 'appropriate' venues such as brothels, strip clubs, parlours and private residences. The very occasional drunk couple in a dark alley could potentially be acceptable.

- With affluence comes the illusion of self restraint. The social elite may have more wealth and power but they are just as depraved, if not more so. However, this is doubtlessly not the public image that said social elite would wish to portray. We can probably expect there to be much more 'modesty' visable in the higher class areas. That being said there would still be plenty of that kind of 'product' available if you know where to look, or it will be advertised in a much more 'tasteful' manner.

- In lower class areas modesty should probably take a back seat. Pimps, prostitues, drug dealers and illicit braindance dealers all mixing it up on the strip.

- Sexual devience and fetishes can be expected to be both varied and creative. People are always looking to push boundries. An underground market for simulated, (and probably actual,) taboo/illicit sexual acts, (possibly including snuff,) can reasonably be expected. (Think '8mm' and 'Strange Days'.)

- Sexualisation in fashion can probably be expected to exceed current day trends, but that is not to say that it will appeal to everyone, (or even all the time.) It may also be reasonable to assume that ones sexuality could play a much more important role in establishing ones identity.

- It should be reasonable to assume that 'alternative' sexualities, (including homosexuality, bisexuality, polyamory and asexuality,) should be much more accepted than in current society and carry much less stigma.


How does this summary sit with everyone?

Did you avoided using my name because my name doesn't have a number attached to it? You discriminatory... number person you.. Alright Mr. 2020.. You, Mr. 77 and Mr. 12.. and Mr. 227.. I'm seeing a pattern here..

Errr... TWO CAN PLAY THAT GAME..

Wait... TWO! Who is 2?

 

[braindancer12]

Did you avoided using my name because my name doesn't have a number attached to it? You discriminatory... number person you.. Alright Mr. 2020.. You, Mr. 77 and Mr. 12.. and Mr. 227.. I'm seeing a pattern here..

Errr... TWO CAN PLAY THAT GAME..

Wait... TWO! Who is 2?

oh god...thats a conspiracy! Maybe we are in the Matrix and everyone with a number is a machine....

 

[Sardukhar]

My takeaway from all this is definitely the biting. Yeeeeeeep. Good. To. Know.

 

[crrpt_dntt]

- The use of sexualised images, footage, (not to be confused with actual imagary of sex itself,) and the 'implication' of the act itself should be expected to be used prevelantly in advertising, (and to a greater extent than today.)

- Actual sexual acts should not be 'abundant' and not 'usually' to be carried out in public. They should be reserved for 'appropriate' venues such as brothels, strip clubs, parlours and private residences. The very occasional drunk couple in a dark alley could potentially be acceptable.

Sexual devience and fetishes can be expected to be both varied and creative. People are always looking to push boundries. An underground market for simulated, (and probably actual,) taboo/illicit sexual acts, (possibly including snuff,) can reasonably be expected. (Think '8mm' and 'Strange Days'.)

Some very good ideas there. I'd probably squeal like a little girl hearing that couple clanking in that alley^^

Let me just add one thing for consideration. Your first point might ultimately have to be extended to a huge part of the more explicit imagery in the final game. I really would like to see the game in an as-true-to-life fashion as it can be, but maybe we shouldn't get our hopes up too high in expecting CDPR to overexceed current (accepted) limits within the realities of illustration of actual sex imagery.

As we know, the publishers aim to bring this game not only to PCs but also to the console market, making a huge effort to creating a brand with hopefully many follow-ups to come.

So if CDPR were to sort of overdo things in this first installment, even if only in the opinions of some conservative Sony decision makers, the game would have to be cut in order to be released on the PS4 for example. If this were to happen, many people would obviously be discouraged to buy a dumbed down version and (if they can) buy the PC version. As we can expect CDPR to want to create the same and best possible experience for every customer and tell the same story on every platform their only reaction could be to dumb down the PC version as well so to not create a slope between platform versions. If, on the other hand, they were to ignore the console situation and just release their "real" version as "PC only" it might eventually force CDPR to overthink their involvement with the console market due to lower sales, bad image etc. and I'm sure they'd never want that.

I guess it would still depend on the amount of censorship and public perception as well as public/media propagation of that matter but if you think that possible sequels would probably be placed in Night City as well - depending on the nature of said censored content and its concentration with in the cityscape - it might eventually derogate the console experience of the game.

Just want to say that while CDPR will surely try to transfer as much of the original feel of the CP2020 PnP sessions to the game as possible, at the end of the day they remain a company that has to adapt to certain rules of the trade, especially when they invest as much money and time into their projects as they do.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Did you avoided using my name because my name doesn't have a number attached to it? You discriminatory... number person you.. Alright Mr. 2020.. You, Mr. 77 and Mr. 12.. and Mr. 227.. I'm seeing a pattern here..

Errr... TWO CAN PLAY THAT GAME..

Wait... TWO! Who is 2?

Well, tbf I wanted to acknowledge 77, I didn't mention 12 and I always enjoy jumping on sards bandwagon of number-bashing 90210. Oh, and I took the opportunity to rename U-571.

However, now that you have mentioned it, as Braindancer has mentioned, it may all be a conspiracy and I was previously unaware...

My takeaway from all this is definitely the biting. Yeeeeeeep. Good. To. Know.

Wait, you're having; Pork balls in Chilli sauce on skewers (12), 2 portions of Grilled Dumplings (20+20,) and a Fish Curry (77)

What's a number 227?

 

[azriel77]

I do not see why all illegal areas would be part of the main story, more of a side quest maybe, especially in a city. In real life, when you close a illegal or underground thing(brothel, drug den, etc) two more pops up the next day under new management. Someone else will always come in and take over. I would actually like if you were a cop and someone pointed that out after you close one of them. To show that at best, you can only temporarily stop what is going on. The best you can do is help manipulate which faction takes over and help se the rules they must follow, or perhaps you take it over yourself (that would be cool as hell).

On the net, I would expect there to be dark nets, areas where all the dark and illegal stuff goes on (VR brothels? illegal braindancing, dangerous computer virus, tons of corporate/political/peoples secret/information being traded/sold, assassination contracts, backroom deals...etc.) Probably where most of the hacker hangs out and shady business happens.

Like any recordings, braindancing will be fun for a while, but it will get old and tiring playing the same recordings over and over. So people will always look for the next big thing.

 

[crrpt_dntt]

Like any recordings, braindancing will be fun for a while, but it will get old and tiring playing the same recordings over and over. So people will always look for the next big thing.

That is a good point there. The developers really should consider making additional content in sectors like that only accessible after so much time so that it really feels like a living industry. So for example after 10, 15 hours of gaming or when the player has explored a certain part of the city or used a certain amount of entertainment opportunities additional content would unlock, with new ads throughout the city making the player aware or some of the providers of the more explicit content hinting you on newly available material.

On another note I, upon reading my last post, just realized that it again came out rather definitive. I'm the first one to let himself be convinced that his doubts are exaggerated and CDPR can manage to make everybody happy on that matter as I'd obviously love to see them do the original work justice.

 

[Sardukhar]

I'm the first one to let himself be convinced that his doubts are exaggerated and CDPR can manage to make everybody happy on that matter as I'd obviously love to see them do the original work justice.

I read this as "do the original work juice". Yeah. Gotta stop reading this thread.

It's off topic, ( HOW DARE YOU) but Az makes a good point about the Net: I, too, hope that we see illegal and dark areas of the Net, not just mission-specific areas.

STILL OFF TOPIC. Some mod flog me. (Oooh, on topic).

This was why back in the day, we were talking about having the Net be a virtual representation of the rest of the game world. Same map, just in wireframe or chrome or whatever, no gravity and more hidden spaces. Different skills for different locks, etc. Hack real world cars from their Netspace equivalents. Bars would have their real world space and their code-locked, gated Netspace equivalent.

YOU MAY NOW RETURN TO YOUR SEXY TOPIC.