How is netrunning going to be handled, if at all?

[Sardukhar]

This is a terrible topic. Just terrible. Worst I have ever seen on any message board anywhere.



Why is there no poll?


I SHALL ANSWER YOUR PETULANT QUERIES.

1. Much of that gear boosts INT. INT is used for a whole range of skills, from A/Notice for Solos, to Stock Market for Corps, to Design Aerogyro Engine for Techies. So the same INT-assisting cyberware and drugs can be used across the board. The other specialized gear is programs and decks. I could see programs being used by both Runners and Techies and Medias and Cops to hack into any system, so there's that.

2.I think that would be cool, but I think using a wireframe or negative of the existing maps would be more efficient and except for specialized Data Fortresses, even cooler. So you could wander around in Netspace, reading the data transmissions from people, cars, AV4s, whatever.

3.In Multiplayer? Real problem. I would guess the same way you communicate in WoW across instances and dungeons - text, voice, etc. In SP, no real problem - the NPCs talk to you by voice over your data line.

4. See above for commo - as for tactically, Netrunners can hack and overcome security on raids, 'bots on attacks, enemy players cyberware in close combat. They are the wizards of the modern world, after all - have their spells affect that world.

5. A character should be able to hack most any enterable building to read the memos and emails there and steal any money they find. They should be able to make raids on purpose-built Data Fortresses like Arasaka, Militech, NCPD and the like, where they conduct more pillaging, take control of system remotes, leave software bugs for cool plot stuff later, spy on NPCs for plot reasons that give them an advantage later or bypass a fighty/sneaky section, etc. Outside of buildings and DF, they should be able to mess with the controls of any nearby Remote, like cars and AVs and store doors and so forth, glitch cyberware, explore a Virtual Night CIty and be hunted by Admins, AI and Icemen.

OFF TO BED. To dream of leprechauns and sausages.

 

[Suhiira]

No poll because there are multiple questions ... silly Canuck.

OFF TO BED. To dream of leprechauns and sausages.

I am soooo not going to ask.

 

[Lolssi83.811]

Not so invested in this and I'd be fine with Deus Ex multitool level of hacking
But I think if it should take account if you can pull of the hack without being noticed. Do the job without being noticed = perfect. Get the objective done but trip few alarms/security measures = your physical world location is compromised.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

I can't think of hacking as anything but glorified mini-games unless they include math problems or something.

But then the math whiz would find it too easy and the average gamer would find them too hard.

I can't think of a hacking mini-game which was not annoying. Alpha protocol and Bioshock probably were the worse offenders.
Hacking in DHXR was truly not fun.

Perhaps the best way to do it is the way Fallout 1 & 2 and Morrowind did it: simply as an abstraction. Basically try it until it works.

Unless they do a completely seperate world, kind of like in the Shadowrun in Kickstarter or System shock.

It would be interesting in Multiplayer. Practically, it would add a different dimension to defend from. or vector of attack depending on your POV.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

I have really no qualms for specialized gear btw, hopefully there will be lots and lots of different skills.

you should maybe have script kiddie tools in your iphone or wtv which will easily bypass a lock or whatnot.

simply because I hate mini-games.

2.I think that would be cool, but I think using a wireframe or negative of the existing maps would be more efficient and except for specialized Data Fortresses, even cooler. So you could wander around in Netspace, reading the data transmissions from people, cars, AV4s, whatever.

Perhaps they could make it a mini-minecraft?

Since hackers are essentially programmers, it would provide an abstraction that is close enough for gaming purposes without turning it into a mini-game.

3.In Multiplayer? Real problem. I would guess the same way you communicate in WoW across instances and dungeons - text, voice, etc. In SP, no real problem - the NPCs talk to you by voice over your data line.

4. See above for commo - as for tactically, Netrunners can hack and overcome security on raids, 'bots on attacks, enemy players cyberware in close combat. They are the wizards of the modern world, after all - have their spells affect that world.

That is a bit of a pet peeve in video games. Comms (as in everywhere else) is usually neglected and it happens magically.

They should do the same as in the real world. With advantages and benefits.

Use an iphone or the corporate network, run the risk to have them intercepted. Use the net, you're open to being hacked.

For max security (and max headaches) get a TEMPEST radio with military encryption and frequency hopping,
HOWEVER, risk triangulation by an electronic warfare team.

Comms could add a whole new dimension to multiplayer.
Awesome.

 

[satibel.853]

I think that having cyberspace as a color changed/ wireframe map could be the easiest thing to do, for enemies, when you enter a protected sector, you have watchdogs (kicks you out of the building/zone), firestarters (can fry your deck/electrodes) and leeches (can swap your brain with a useless program). Basically your weapons are useless,but you can use some crash/kill programs to stun/do damage to your enemies or some invisibility ones to hide. basically the game-play in netrunning is like a survival horror, minus the horror part.
ps: I only watched people playing, and one or two times, so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Personally, I am one of the ones hoping that when CDPR displayed the poster that stated "Two Open-World Environments" they meant that the NET would be one.

I would like to see the net presented as a 3D environment where all the nodes are depicted according to their "virtual presence" and they are located according to their physical place in the corporeal game world. Within the nodes, I would be happy with both a TRON style layout or one similar to GitS.

 

[braindancer12]

Personally, I am one of the ones hoping that when CDPR displayed the poster that stated "Two Open-World Environments" they meant that the NET would be one.

I would like to see the net presented as a 3D environment where all the nodes are depicted according to their "virtual presence" and they are located according to their physical place in the corporeal game world. Within the nodes, I would be happy with both a TRON style layout or one similar to GitS.

this....this is what i want! And i thought the same when i red "Two open-world environments".


by the way we already got a netrunning thread

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/27055-How-is-netrunning-going-to-be-handled-if-at-all

i am sure Sard will merge them together later like the Multyplayer thread....its his Duty

 

[lochnarus]

My main contribution would be that those expensive hacking tools should not be over-powered and/or a permanent "skeleton key" type thing and should be used up in either a one-time or at least (depending on the price) a few times of use.

As for the look...hmmm well I sort of like the way Syndicate did the DART overlay mode (not sure about the bullet time thing though) and the training mode where it was all black and white...i.e. stylish and not necessarily just a wireframe outline. But this is just my own speculative wishes and I have no idea how they'll implement the net in the game world, be it a 3d cyberspace representation of the game's 'real life' or just a node-to-node thing like DXHR.

 

[dragonbird]

this....this is what i want! And i thought the same when i red "Two open-world environments".

Me too. It seemed to be a more obvious conclusion than treating the Wastelands as a separate environment.

by the way we already got a netrunning thread

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/27055-How-is-netrunning-going-to-be-handled-if-at-all

i am sure Sard will merge them together later like the Multyplayer thread....its his Duty

Thank you! Redge hasn't been doing his job recently, and I was feeling too lazy to look for it, and Sard is..., well, he's Sard. Threads merged.

 

[Sardukhar]

Piffle. I would have done it eventually. Maybe. Possibly. I liked Suhiir's title better.

Besides, I'm more of a Freedom guy. Duty is so...grim. And red, too! Also, the LR300 and G36 rock.

 

[Suhiira]

ACK !
I've been merged ... I feel violated ...
Wait ... that's just Sard playing Peeping-Tom again ....

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

Each time Sards use his moderator powers, a kitten dies.

Suck it up buttercup.

 

[dragonbird]

The kittens are safe - it was me who did the merge. That doesn't harm... kittens. Yes, kittens. That was it. Safe. All of them.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I thought I would link how I would like programs, (which I would like to have as a creatable resource by players and NPCs,) in the NET.

I think "Programing 101" from the CP2020 rulebook, (page 167,) covers the basic elements of the idea pretty well:

Pick the programs functions
Pick the programs options (including the ICON)
Pick the programs strength value

The hard part will be the actual 'writing', as you have pointed out. 2020 had the 'random' aspect, meaning you could fail to create a program if it was too complex for you, and it even gave the option to 'combining efforts' with other Netrunners to create really complex software. There was also the 'time' element.

If this style of software creation is implemented, then the 2 obvious options are to either use some sort of programing minigame to represent the chance of failure, or simply use a RNG to determine the result, be it succes or failure.

I would say that this area also has great potential for modding. Imagine all the unique ICONs that could be created by modders for use in the game!

But all that relies on the Net being represented in a very similar manner to how it is described in the 2020 game. I guess the descriptions, for me, always felt like a new take on the classic 'dungeon crawl', (just like the shadowrun example I found on youtube.) I would like to see something more up to date, like this:

Buildings made of code and printed circuitry. Essentially 'recreating' Night City in code, but instead of having a copy, each 'entity' or location in the net would be represented by a structure of code that would show its equivelant prescence in the net.
As an example, lets imagine an 'internet' cafe, or its equivelant. The physical bulding may be small coffee shop or even just a 'hole in the wall'. But in the net, it could be a towering mega structure or a tropical lagoon. The Mega Corps may have massive buildings in outside, but in the net, (unless they want to be particularly visable,) they may have very small and discrete constructs.
I would also like to see a really wide range of ICON styles, all the way from super-simple 2D, 8-bit and 16-bit, right the way up to 'lifelike' representations of people and objects.

I also quite like the look and feel used by Shirow in the GitS series. Locations being represented as 'balls' of data and code.

I particularly liked their take on 'Chat Rooms'. Actually haveing a 'room' with the group sat around a sort of table and acutally talking, (while the immature members show off with gimmicky over the top fashopn or effects - so true,) was a really nice touch.

That just gave me an idea too. How cool would it be to actually have this sort of 'chat room' in the game, where we can talk to other players or meet NPC contacts?

 

[Suhiira]

I like the "code building" - "printed circuit" look.
Maybe just to keep things simple leave buildings/roads the same size tho, that way all they have to do is reskin them and that's fairly easy.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I like the "code building" - "printed circuit" look.
Maybe just to keep things simple leave buildings/roads the same size tho, that way all they have to do is reskin them and that's fairly easy.

Now, I'm cool with that, but I would really like the 'buildings' to be scaled according to their internet presence; so a mega corp office which is maybe the size if a small shop in reality could be seen as a massive structure online, but a bug apartment block could be just a small box with loads of pigeon holes.

 

[Davunk]

I only know a little bit of Cyberpunk 2020 background information.

Is netrunning supposed to be like a Matrix/Tron type of thing? Do netrunners literally go into a Cyberworld?

 

[Sardukhar]

I only know a little bit of Cyberpunk 2020 background information.

Is netrunning supposed to be like a Matrix/Tron type of thing? Do netrunners literally go into a Cyberworld?

Yep. It's a consensual hallucination. Your consciousness is projected into it by your cyberdeck.

 

[Decatonkeil]

I don't think a plain field of circuitry with an "infinite" horizon in which pyramids, spheres and prisms and beams of light float would need that much work. I like it being kind of a parallel to the real world, but maybe if they take it too far it will make the gameplay suffer. I mean, why would say, bridges, brickwalls, windows... have a presence in cyberspace? It should be just the "nodes", the "terminals" that have it. Just make them be around the same relative place as their hardware is.
I kind of stand by my idea that cyberspace should be some kind of deck building card game without the random element of shuffling, where we have a memory limit to how many programs we are running (these programs are played like cards, they're not really cards), have viruses, etc. when we're facing a dataforttress that I imagine like a giant floating rubik's cube, composed of chunks (like those in minecraft) with different properties. At first we float outside of it, trying to weaken its defenses, we launch a cyberattack on a chunk or group of chunks (depending on the program) and break them, some programs will keep on eating adjacent chunks, some chunks would be unbreakable, some would regenerate... when we see we've opened a passageway, we fly inside it, but, how are the chunks around us? Some of them may detect our intrusion and initiate countermeasures (some others initiate them with actions like the ones i described before), some deal damage to our avatar just by passing near them or through them, some teleport us to a random chunk or outside of the datafortress, some make our flight slower or make our cyberdeck eat up memory... it's kind of mining but it's also a labyrinth, some times because of these unbreakable chunks and some times because of a risk vs reward system. We find the data we want to steal and now we have to get out of the datafortress that may be "closing its gates".

Now, my vision of it like a card game comes mostly from the impression some scenes in GITS give me. In MMI and more recently in Arise, Motoko's avatar is commonly seen in the net with a relaxed and dominating attitude (she just sits and leans there not giving much of a crap) in a space that feels like a shrine and some data disks (windows) float in front of her which remind me of a deck of playing cards. She ponders and choses, she draws more of these "cards" containign viruses, etc. That minecraft inspired element comes also from some of the images seen in SAC that chriswebb2020 brought up, specially the balls of data, with a little of how I imagined Neuromancer's cyberspace scenes and how it all looks in the Genesis version of Shadowrun.