Combat system

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With my limited experience of the PnP I have noticed that it is very easy to die and even easier to lose limbs. I wonder if and how CDPR can implement that into a video game without either frustrating the player, or even tempting them to just reload the last save to get that leg back.

Of course there is the cyberware you can get to replace limbs and even the option to get an organic one according to the rulebook, but will players willingly take the handicap I wonder when quick load is so convenient?

I think having a leg blown off would impress me rather than annoy me. Sure there will be some people who wanna remain all human, but if they wanna reload the section to keep it then that's up to them. ^^ I'm sure some players will choose to do so, and they have that option but I'm sure there are players who'd keep going on after that happens. I think it'd be rather cool to have the character shaped by combat as well as the character creation system.
 
I think having a leg blown off would impress me rather than annoy me. Sure there will be some people who wanna remain all human, but if they wanna reload the section to keep it then that's up to them. ^^ I'm sure some players will choose to do so, and they have that option but I'm sure there are players who'd keep going on after that happens. I think it'd be rather cool to have the character shaped by combat as well as the character creation system.

That was my thought exactly, but the balancing issues between PnP and video game came to mind and I felt compelled to ask. I suppose one thing that could be done is you fall unconscious from blood loss and wake in the hospital with the choice. Of course that would depend on circumstance. There should be a chance you bleed out and die or the opponents just cap you. This is all hypothesis right now of course.
 
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That was my thought exactly, but the balancing issues between PnP and video game came to mind and I felt compelled to ask. I suppose one thing that could be done is you fall unconscious from blood loss and wake in the hospital with the choice. Of course that would depend on circumstance. There should be a chance you bleed out and die or the opponents just cap you. This is all hypothesis right now of course.

This makes me seriously wonder if they will put something like this in the game. If they do I will seriously be happy because you never really see any amputees in games. We see them in real life, they exist, so why shouldn't we have them in games, and why can't we play as one? I mean your life doesn't end if you lose an arm, why should it in a game? I can only think of Dead Space Extraction that did that, and that was right at the very end of the game. But yeah, I do think there should be a chance that you bleed out too, or they finish you off. I'd just like to see something like this in any game, because I can't think of many amputee characters in anything, let alone as a main character in a video game.
 
I'd just like to see something like this in any game, because I can't think of many amputee characters in anything, let alone as a main character in a video game.

Ironically, this is the exact wrong game for that. Cloned limbs are pretty cheap - 300 eb, I think - and most other people get a cyberlimb. If yo can't afford it, well. It's the Dark future - they don't call 'em Ripperdocs for nothing.

That said, it occurs to me you might see ex-cyborgs who've had their limbs forcibly removed by gangers and so on....

Anyway, I, too want to see de-limbing happening. Followed by cyberware.
 
And please, make the NPC respawn lol
In DEHR, if you kill everyone in the street, pull them in a sewer dump and they'll stay there...
Nice to play in a ghost town, but it just look ridiculous in the end lol.
I'll take ghost town any day over FarCry 2's spawn fest. I personally like to clear areas but that doesn't mean I'll waste every passer by, usually just the aggressive ones.
Then again megacity shouldn't be empty. Need to find good middle ground here.. perhaps something along the lines of Stalker and two Worlds mob movement. Just don't make me fight same guys again on same spot when I backtrack. Skyrim another example of bad spawn system, thank god for mods.
 
I'll take ghost town any day over FarCry 2's spawn fest. I personally like to clear areas but that doesn't mean I'll waste every passer by, usually just the aggressive ones.
Then again megacity shouldn't be empty. Need to find good middle ground here.. perhaps something along the lines of Stalker and two Worlds mob movement. Just don't make me fight same guys again on same spot when I backtrack. Skyrim another example of bad spawn system, thank god for mods.

Yes, I was talking about some kind of GTA citizen poping up here and then, in deus ex, the people you see in the street are the only one supposed to be here, if you kill everyone, nothing happens, it kills the feeling of a living city for me, like you said, they need to find a right middle, but that feeling of "there is only 50 peoples living in this town" makes DEHR looks a lil bland when it should have showed a lot more of peoples, etc...
The game is overall good, but some details like this had makes me rolls my eyes, honnestly.

And, well, this + the stupid IA didn't make me enjoy the combat side of the game honnestly, a mega-city populated with 50 brain-cancerised retards lol.
If the game take days, ect... in count, if, let's say I kill the guard in front of a building, i can expect them to be back tomorrow.
Same if i kill a citizen, he should be somewhat "automaticaly" replaced, so the street feels "living", not just an handfull of people just to say "ok guys, here is your 5 random citizen, get on with it."
 
Well, if someone really wants to try to kill everyone in the city I'd say ... Let them try.
This assumes the police/National Guard/whatever exists in the game and is competent/well armed.
We all know in reality such a thing is essentially impossible let's hope CP2077 makes it so as well.
 
Well, if someone really wants to try to kill everyone in the city I'd say ... Let them try.
This assumes the police/National Guard/whatever exists in the game and is competent/well armed.
We all know in reality such a thing is essentially impossible let's hope CP2077 makes it so as well.

This, If you start a shoot in the streets, It should work somewhat like GTA with the stars system.
At first, they send you a police car or two, then a bunch others, of course the usual policemen should be pretty badasses (hey, they're supposed to be trained and flirting with Night City's crap in their everyday-job, so the "donuts-eater" should probably be the one in the office more than the one after you), but if they aren't able to get you, then they call the Max-Tac/Psychosquad, which is, somewhat like the swat, bigger badasses with railguns, weaved skin, and stuff like this.

Even with a bunch of cybernetic on yourself, being chased by a few police-car, some AV4, all shooting at you, and just add some "heroic citizen" who'll try to shoot you too, that's the kind of "epic" cyberpunk police chase I'd like to see, having to steal a car, hidding from the AV, etc...

When police comes, you have to shit yourself!
Plus, we'll probably have the Trauma Team to help, so if it's well handled, even if the damages are lethal you'll always have some sort of escape route to get you out of troubles

As for the "make new people pop up", it was more in the vein of
"In a city with so much people inside it, you'll never clean a block of it, there'll always have new peoples to pass by"
than
"Let them re-pop as you kill them"
 
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At first, they send you a police car or two, then a bunch others, of course the usual policemen should be pretty badasses (hey, they're supposed to be trained and flirting with Night City's crap in their everyday-job, so the "donuts-eater" should probably be the one in the office more than the one after you), but if they aren't able to get you, then they call the Max-Tac/Psychosquad, which is, somewhat like the swat, bigger badasses with railguns, weaved skin, and stuff like this.

Sounds good to me.
 
I also think it would depend on where you are when the call comes in, or what you've done.

No reason for it to start with a car or two - it could well start with ten cars. Or C-SWAT.

That's a different subject than the Combat System, though. Sort-of. A combat system where it's virtually impossible to kill fifty responding cops in armour would seem to be at least the minimum for Cyberpunk.

Unless you were in a Dragoon or ACPA, of course.
 
Ironically, this is the exact wrong game for that. Cloned limbs are pretty cheap - 300 eb, I think - and most other people get a cyberlimb. If yo can't afford it, well. It's the Dark future - they don't call 'em Ripperdocs for nothing.

That said, it occurs to me you might see ex-cyborgs who've had their limbs forcibly removed by gangers and so on....

Anyway, I, too want to see de-limbing happening. Followed by cyberware.

Perhaps we would not see people that don't have some kind of prosthetic limb, but we'll probably see a lot more amputees in this game than perhaps any other. I'd still consider people who use cybernetic limbs to be amputees. After all, the definition of an amputee is a person who has had a limb removed. I suppose that many people wouldn't even think that they're amputees seeing as they can get limbs that look just like their old ones. The reason I still consider people who'd use cybernetic limbs amputees is because of the definition of a prosthetic limb. So I guess I can think of a few amputee characters, mostly from Deus Ex. I guess you're not likely to see an amputee without a prosthetic of some kind in any futuristic setting though, unless it's down to some kind of moral or religious reasons. Some people reject blood transfusions for religious reasons, I could see people rejecting cybernetic limbs for the same reason. I'll admit though, I'd like to see a game where you'll lose your arm and it'll stay like that for the rest of the game, perhaps some kind of survival game because I'll understand if they don't give you that option in this game when, like you said, the limbs are so cheap. I wonder if you don't have the money to pay for the cybernetic limb, will your character just bleed out? Or will you be given some time to pay the amount back?

Anyway, yeah, de-limbing during combat is a cool idea, it'd be interesting to see people's reactions to it happening to their character for the first time. After all that'll be a pretty damn unique feature if it were put into the game. It would also be cool if we were to see someone's cybernetic limbs being removed from gangsters. That's something I really want to see because it was talked about in Deus Ex Human Revolution but I never saw any of it, just the limbs afterwards.
 
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I also think it would depend on where you are when the call comes in, or what you've done.

No reason for it to start with a car or two - it could well start with ten cars. Or C-SWAT.

That's a different subject than the Combat System, though. Sort-of. A combat system where it's virtually impossible to kill fifty responding cops in armour would seem to be at least the minimum for Cyberpunk.

Unless you were in a Dragoon or ACPA, of course.

Yup, I was just saying this as a global idea, sure if you blow up a building an start shooting all around with a .50cal, they'll throw you 10 AV filled with psychosquad agents.
The same goes in GTA, if you take a tank or something, your "wanted" level goes up quicker, CDPR just need to "fix" this to Cyberpunk, adjusting your "wanted" level according to those parameters.
My overall idea about it, is that Night City would be like Megacity in Judge Dredd, more crime than cop, so they'd send a patrol first to examine the scene and call backup if they need to, sure, if someone call them and explain you're a bulky cyborg, killing everyone at sight, here come the Max Tac, but it's up to CDPR to implement it in a good way.
 
Perhaps we would not see people that don't have some kind of prosthetic limb, but we'll probably see a lot more amputees in this game than perhaps any other.

Maybe CP2077 will take the opportunity to update their medical technology.
Remember 2020 was written in the mid-80's, now it's 2014 and we can do a lot of things that were unimaginable in the 80's.
That and contrary to comic books and FPS games limbs very rarely get blown off people in real combat, other then by artillery, bombs, and other higher-yield high explosive stuff. Mangled yes, blown off ... no.
 
Maybe CP2077 will take the opportunity to update their medical technology.
Remember 2020 was written in the mid-80's, now it's 2014 and we can do a lot of things that were unimaginable in the 80's.
That and contrary to comic books and FPS games limbs very rarely get blown off people in real combat, other then by artillery, bombs, and other higher-yield high explosive stuff. Mangled yes, blown off ... no.

Ahh yes, but this isn't real combat. None of us would fight against someone wielding a rocket launcher in the city that we live in (unless you live in Syria), or say against some crazy person with mantis blade arms. In the game, I'm guessing we're going to be going up against something like that at some point. I'd imagine unless you're wearing something that can protect against something like that, you're going to have a problem. I'd like to see my character lose a limb or two, but make it through it. Doesn't have to be through explosion, some dude with some serious strength and cybernetic limbs could probably tear the arms or legs right off my character. As long as he doesn't finish the job though, I'd like to see my character make it, with medical assistance obviously. I'd imagine the damage wouldn't be restricted just to limbs though. Someone in my family once picked up a grenade, it exploded, she survived, but she was blinded. Also I'd like to point out that it doesn't have to be a fire fight that someone loses their limb in. A few months ago some guy that lives near me got his arm petty much hacked off by a machete. Now before you feel sorry for him, he deserved it, but that's not the point. Your character could just be going around the wrong neighborhood or perhaps s/he pisses off the wrong people, and suddenly gets attacked with bladed weapons. Could get amputated there, no big guns or explosions needed.
 
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Just because it's a game doesn't mean it can't be as "realistic" as possible (keeping in mind playability).

Sure, things do happen real life that are amazing (the guy that took 5 bullets to the head and didn't realize he'd been shot till a couple days later when he went into the hospital to complain about the headache that wouldn't go away). But it's usually best to try to represent the "most common" case in a game rather then the "one in a thousand".
 
Just because it's a game doesn't mean it can't be as "realistic" as possible (keeping in mind playability).

True, mostly here, it's an RPG, not an adventure game or a shooter, so no need to have an "arcade" kind of damage (like, for example 1shot = -4hp, etc...), if I was playing to let's say Tomb Raider or Crysis and I'd die if I took a bullet or a hit at the wrong place, it would be really boring, but in a RPG you can do whatever you want, gameplay wise.
Just look at Shenmue, the game is great though it has it's own gameplay, totally different from any games at the time.

But here, one of the most interesting thing in the RPG is the realism of the combats, it's a whole part of the Cyberpunk lore IMO, as a GM, I've seen a bunch of "Rambo" player getting calmed down by a few street kids NPC with the right tool at the right time, and that's the funny stuff here, you have to play it like in real life, even if you're rich and with a lot of tools and weapons, you'll think twice before puttng your life in danger, where in an arcade game it's more "I don't give a shit, there are medikits around".
Plus, in the pnp everything is planed for those kind of damages:
- Pain suppresors implants / drugs
- Trauma Team
- Armor implants (underskin-plates, weaved skins, etc....)

The lethality is also what makes the streets so dangerous, you prefer to take your car more than walking on foot and being annoyed by a bunch of stoned punks every block you go throught.

Sure, if you'd like "Cyberpunk 2077" as a shooter, then an health bar, etc... would be welcome, in a shooter you're supposed to.... shoot, and make a huge "High Score".

Here, it's an RPG, "Make a character a live his story", if the rules says "In this world, it's real life, bullets are deadly, so is this overall world, so don't think you're an invincible badass", I'd think "Ok, it's an RPG, so I've to play my story throught this world and adapting my playstyle with it", the same when you play a medieval RPG, you've to play it in a "medieval way".

Here, you should live your journey in a Cyberpunk setting, knowing it's better to talk than shoot, just like in the pnp, when you know that even a granny with a 9mm can shoot you dead, you'll build your character in consequences, more that trying to buff it out like in a beat em all, in the pnp setting, there are no "invincible" guy, all depend on how you build your skills, how much smart you are, and if you can get the right tools for the job.

If you have to rob a bank, it's smarter to dig a tunnel under it and rob it when no one is there than going inside in daylight, shooting at the crowd and screaming "Get the money out you bitches!", sure it looks cooler, but in Cyberpunk; as much in real life, you'll not end your day very well (unless you're a fuckin badass, and even with settings as deadly as in Cyberpunk, it's possible, like I said, you HAVE to be talented and smart, outsmarting the machine, more than being "incited" by the gameplay like "you got the bigger gun = you'll win", like in most shooters)

Plus, the Cyberpunk genre has to be some "hardcore grounded in reallity sci-fi" so I'd say the lethality would add to the deadly feeling, making the game really closer to our world, and more immersive, you'll be probably more carring about your beloved character if he can be putted down in 1 bullets than if he's a Shoot'em up-killing machine.

To finish, nowadays, games are really too much "kids-friendly" I mean, I love difficulty, the REAL difficulty, not when the game is coded by a bunch of monkeys, and so the game is so awfull that it becomes difficult, but the real difficulty, when you take times on a game, making your brain works, thinking about multiple angles to do your job, etc...
I'd like Cyberpunk to be something to "live", having my nerve cracking on some mission "because that freakin corporate security is soooo unkillable and i don't know how to pass through it", you know, something challenging, where I'll freak in front of my screen, but I'll love to freak over it, more than just go through the game, killing peoples, and pimping your body with neon tits.
 
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Amen to that Maelcom404!

I want a realistic combat system, that when you get shot in the head, well you know, you die! That'll make you think twice before jumping out of your nice and comfortable cover. Moreover, if you're just wearing clothes, make those two 9mm bullets that backstreet thug shot you in the back make fighting back REALLY hard, like, nearly crawling.
Also, a combat system that makes you think! Like taking the back door, that open window on the third floor, or the sewers, instead of just running for a front fight, which you'll most likely loose, and die (btw, to me, dying shouldn't be the end, you can always load that last save. Unless, you chose that punishing difficulty level!)
 
Amen to that Maelcom404!

I want a realistic combat system, that when you get shot in the head, well you know, you die! That'll make you think twice before jumping out of your nice and comfortable cover. Moreover, if you're just wearing clothes, make those two 9mm bullets that backstreet thug shot you in the back make fighting back REALLY hard, like, nearly crawling.
Also, a combat system that makes you think! Like taking the back door, that open window on the third floor, or the sewers, instead of just running for a front fight, which you'll most likely loose, and die (btw, to me, dying shouldn't be the end, you can always load that last save. Unless, you chose that punishing difficulty level!)

This, that's also how I see the gameplay, that would push you to make some crazy scheme to avoid those deadly traps, and this is where Cyberpunk starts to be really fun.
 
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