Watch_Dogs coming out on all "home consoles" this holiday season

[Sardukhar]

I think you're vastly overestimating word-of-mouth sales while ignoring the possibility that the sales figures reflect the huge amount of money that was pumped into advertising regardless of fans' actual opinions of the game.. Can that really be ignored as a vocal minority solely because of sales and your own personal enjoyment of the game?

Yep. Because of sales. If sales fall off fast, we'll know it was hype. If they do not, it wasn't. They haven't so far, so far it wasn't.

Not to mention, most reviews are positive as well. Roughly 80% or 8/10 seems common.

So it's selling well (market) and reviewers(pros) like it. Yeah, looks like a minority fan backlash to me.

 

[227]

Not to mention, most reviews are positive as well. Roughly 80% or 8/10 seems common.

By reviewers who were literally bribed with a free Nexus 7.

So it's selling well (market) and reviewers(pros) like it. Yeah, looks like a minority fan backlash to me.

Its metacritic scores are almost identical to those of Mass Effect 3, which also sold well and received universal critical acclaim (including more positive reviewer scores than Watch Dogs). Would you say that the backlash to ME3 was a minority fan backlash, as well? Do you really believe that there's a large group of gamers who spread games' virtues through word-of-mouth, but never share this opinion on the internet where it would counter (and far outweigh) the negative user reviews? I fail to see how that makes any sense whatsoever.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

Much of this has to to with expectations. I was expecting a GTA-style, person-of-interest themed game set in Chicago. Got all that. My expectations were met and exceeded.

I haven't had the game nor did I really follow the hype. Reading the reviews, it doesn't sound so bad except for the fact you can't punch people in the face. I pretty much knew the hacking was going to be simplistic: it simply has to appeal to a broad demographic. It can certainly be praised for trying to innovate --however feebly-- in a conservative and risk-averse market, .

I truly wonder what people were expecting out of it?

I was a bit disappointed by differences between the PS4 and E3 footage but that's about it.

In any case, any publicity is good publicity. Wolf of Wall Street had a similar marketing campaign. The trailer does not really truly portray the movie, but it did generate buzz and that's what important.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

Its metacritic scores are almost identical to those of Mass Effect 3, which also sold well and received universal critical acclaim (including more positive reviewer scores than Watch Dogs). Would you say that the backlash to ME3 was a minority fan backlash, as well? Do you really believe that there's a large group of gamers who spread games' virtues through word-of-mouth, but never share this opinion on the internet where it would counter (and far outweigh) the negative user reviews? I fail to see how that makes any sense whatsoever.

Angry customers are much more motivated then happy customers.

If it bleeds, it leads and all that.

 

[227]

Angry customers are much more motivated then happy customers.

It's a wonder ANY games have positive user reviews, then.

I wonder why there seem to be fewer angry people for those other games?

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

It's a wonder ANY games have positive user reviews, then.

I don't remember the stats,if you own a restaurant the ratio of happy vs. angry customers that will leave reviews is like 1 to 25.

It might be different for games, I dunno. I don't really hang out around gamers except on this forum.

 

[227]

It doesn't really matter. The comparison is what matters; comparing one game to another means that the ratio of angry people to happy people who would leave a review is irrelevant since both games are on an equal playing field and subject to the same ratio. One game having a ton of angry user reviews and the other being filled with glowing user reviews says something about the way the game is viewed at large, then, rather than just the whims of a vocal minority. Full stop. If that weren't true, then negative reviews would dwarf the positive reviews for every game.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

Not really, because the marketing was handled differently for W_D .

 

[227]

Not really, because the marketing was handled differently for W_D .

All developers claim that their game is the second coming, and the only real difference with WD is the amount of money put behind it. Are you really saying that the amount of money put into a game's advertising is inversely proportional to how much users come to like that game regardless of said game's actual merits? Wasn't Assassin's Creed IV hyped every bit as much as WD, though? Please explain your reasoning.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

Of course not, please don't put words in my mouth.

Based only on what I saw in this thread (namely the angry review), it looks like Ubisoft pulled a fast one with the marketing and that people are ---quite understandably--- angry with the product they bought.

Let's say that for each 1000 happy customer, 1 leaves a review, and for each 100 unhappy customer, 1 leaves a review

Let's say Game A has 100000 happy customer and only 1000 unhappy customers.

100 good reviews and 10 bad reviews.

But let's say game B has 100000 happy customers and only 20 000 unhappy customers.

100 good reviews and 200 bad reviews,

Now let's say that that 500 of these unhappy customers not only disliked the game but felt they've been outright scammed or had and so the ratio goes down from 1 to 100 angry people commenting now it's 1 to 20. That's because they're core gamers that hang out in forums.

see where I am going?

But really it's not a topic I am very knowledgeable about because post-2003 games tend to be crap. I wouldn't know anything else beyond what was said in this thread.

 

[227]

I still don't know why these thousands and thousands of people are, as Sadpanda put it:

buying it and recommending it to people to buy, as evinced by sales numbers.

... but not leaving any reviews online. Do people who enjoy things use snail mail to spread the word? Do they call their friends up on the telephone? Why exactly are they recommending the game everywhere but the internet?

Also keep in mind that fans are just about as fanatical with their positive feedback (even if just to counter the bad reviews of that thing they enjoyed: see what Sard is doing in this thread for a small-scale example of this) as those who leave negative reviews. We can't say if there are a million people who enjoyed the game while remaining mysteriously quiet, but we can say that the game is viewed extremely poorly by the community at large compared to other big releases because of the vast difference in negative versus positive user reviews and scores.

 

[Sardukhar]

but we can say that the game is viewed extremely poorly by the community at large compared to other big releases because of the vast difference in negative versus positive user reviews and scores.

Which community? I don't see that community. My favourite review sites are RPS, Eurogamer, PC Gamer and Destructoid. Positive reviews and generally positive feedback.

This huge fan backlash you are talking about isn't visible to my eyes. Or the many, many people buying the game.

As for leaving positive reviews, no. Poet is correct about negative feedback numbers, as well. Happy people don't bother to post - why would they? We tell our friends or maybe mention it in a forum thread on the communities we frequent, but that's about it. Especially when sales are going so well. No need.

Happy hardcore fans will metacritic, cross-post, promote, sure. But angry hardcore fans AND angry regular players feel equally trapped and spread that ire. Same as restaurants.

This is the only site I've said word one about WD, by the way. These two forums. Because I like the people here and I think some of them might like the game.

You say there is a huge negative feedback. I say prove it, sales seem great. You say sales aren't a reliable indicator of market popularity? I think?

In which case, who cares about this invisible massive fan feedback?

As for user enjoyment...if so many people are buying the game and hating it, where are the thousands of angry reviews and crashing sales? Have you READ the metacritic ones? They are hilarious. "Not GTA". "Car handling terrible." "One button hacking is all missions are." One of my favs: "Tris game is broken. Is not normal with a pc gamer with hi specs the FPS goes 15 on ultra." Yeah.

"This game is a mockery to any intelligent gamers in this world. It's clear to me that Ubisoft Montreal payed the critics who gave it anything over a 70 as any semi-intelligent human being would vomit in disgust at this pathetic display of next gen"

"This game uses Uplay, a DRM system that has lead to several reports of players being unable to start their purchased game. Even if you buy the game from Steam, it still insists on installing and using that other DRM system. "

"It looks like a game from 2008, it doesn't respect ANY physics... Driving is the most terrible thing I've ever seen, "

"Absolute **** how Ubisoft completely reduced all visual graphics and effects to cater to the underpowered console market. F*ck their marketing and completely capitalist money hungering f*ckery."

Heh. Capitalist money hungering fuckery. Heh. I love it.

"This game is beyond horrible.

Im playing this one PC, one thing i noticed straight off the bat, horrible horrible sleeping dogs driving and movement. ITS NOT AN ARCADE THIS IS MEANT TO BE NEXT GEN,"

Beyond horrible, INDEED.

"Boring ... Repetitive ... A game without a soul.
Here are the missions :
1 - Go to a ramdom grey building
2 - Hack a machinethinguberprotected without being spotted
3 - Hurray !
4 - Repeat."

It LACKS SOUL.

"Worst game of 2014? Could be. I thought Thief was bad but oh man, this game thinks way too much of itself as being the coolest open world action game out there. For a "next-gen" game, it lacks detail, reflections and atmosphere. "

Worst game of 2014. Now there's a rational review. Yeah, these people aren't affecting sales because they are obviously idiots. I read this stuff on metacritic, I'd go with the reviewers. I'll tell Rock Paper Shotgun and PC Gamer guys to enjoy their Nexus 7, though. Do these models live longer than 5 years?

Anyway. Dead horse beaten. I hope Ubisoft enjoys their well-earned money, fixes uPlay and makes a sequel. I'm sure they will the first and last, maybe the second.

-----


I just managed to hack a CTOS main station by riding a guard's cmara towards the unviewable switch, blow a nearby fuse, guard investiagtes, I hop from the camera to the codelock and hack it. From way out in the periphery. No guards killed, not seen, one guard KOed. Pretty cool.

 

[227]

Holy wall-o'-text, Batman.

You say there is a huge negative feedback. I say prove it, sales seem great. You say sales aren't a reliable indicator of market popularity? I think?

Pretty much, which I backed up with SimCity 2013 and Witcher 2 data, which you brushed aside by calling the latter a niche game despite the fact that both were anticipated entries in established franchises (and Skyrim's later success would suggest that city-building is far less mainstream than fantasy RPGs). Then I said this:

and this:

and this:

Spoiler

All to illustrate that the game had a much larger negative reception than most games do. I compared it to Mass Effect 3, which has similar user scores and which received a backlash large enough to cause even the mainstream reviewers to take notice, in order to provide an idea of where the game likely falls in terms of how it's been received thus far.

Then poet threw up numbers that make sense, but that mean virtually nothing since the comparison to something like ME3 (and other games that were received better) still demonstrates an overwhelming negativity to the game. Not universal, no, nor is it something that can really be accurately quantified, but an astounding amount of negativity relative to what most releases experience.

Then you said "THESE PEOPLE ISN'T QUALIFIED BCUZ LOOK AT STUPID THINGS COUPLE OF DEM SAID I ONLY TRUST MY LORD AND SAVOR JOHN WAKKER!"

And now I'm facepalming at you.

In which case, who cares about this invisible massive fan feedback?

No one? I was just annoyed that you don't accept that an abnormal amount of negative feedback translates into the game being poorly received by fans.

 

[Edo34]

Yeah...the game definitely lacks soul(if you can call it that way)and the music(both licensed and the actual soundtrack)are severely lacking in both quality and quantity.I expected much more from the guy that does music for Hannibal.The only track I actually like is the one that plays when you do fixer contracts...it sounds like it's done by Tangerine Dream.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ5ngzsqnmo

 

[vtmb]

Which community? I don't see that community. My favourite review sites are RPS

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/05/27/watch-dogs-pc-review/


Also eurogamer staff often argues graphics in front of poor videos to exploit its community, I'd just shy away from the eurogamer thing as a whole.

 

[Sardukhar]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/05/27/watch-dogs-pc-review/

Yeah, that was a negative review. He said 90% correct, 10% wrong, and spent the weekend giving it the middle finger. This, then, is my gap between what I've been playing and what some people seem to experience:

"From here, I tended to take it stealthily. Hitting a button sticks you to a nearby piece of cover, and you continue to use that to carefully skirt around corners, sprint across open spaces and remain unseen. Get close enough to an enemy and you can perform a swift take down move. Chain these moves together, get inside that server room, and your reward is a Pipemania-with-a-twist minigame, but even this relatively simple performance feels great, and the escape back out into the open world can be exhilarating.

But this is not how it goes."

Only for me, yeah, that was pretty much how it went. I screwed up a few times and alerted guards a few times but, generally, that's how mine went. I did rebind all the keys, though, which helped with crouch and move controls. Their original binds on keyboard were weird.


He also says this:

"Bad men who don’t like Aiden Pearce being a hacker attack him while he’s driving with his niece. His niece is killed in the crash. A year later, Aiden is still searching for the people responsible, driven by anger, grief and guilt, and having split from his hacking partner and gone into semi-hiding. By comparison his sister – his niece’s mother – seems to have grieved and moved on, because it’s important that women not have agency in a story like this. (She’ll spend half the game waiting for you to rescue her from a kidnapping. Other roles for women in this game include: victim, sacrifice, property for sale at an auction.)"

As well as being facetious - having a loved one killed or die is pretty hard to move on from, after a year. If you think you were the cause, even harder. So I have no problem with the revenge motif - it's factually incorrect. Your primary hacker partner is a woman, at least as far as I am in the story. There are only three NPCs that matter to Aidan - his sister, his hired fixer goon Chin, and his new hacker partner, a woman. For what it matters.

"Maybe just every mission, in which the environment is designed both restrictively and inconsistently". I haven't played every mission, but I found my last one, to infiltrate an enemy hacker's mansion and steal his stolen data, was open to sneaking, hacking, melee-stunning everyone or just killing. afterwards, you can just outrun people, out-kill them or sneak away undetected as they swarm.

It's totally possible this gets worse as I get further into the story, but so far, these issues have not been issues for me. I really do think the 8.0 is an accurate score for the game - 7.5 would be fine, also.

 

[Jack_in_the-Green]

This is interesting news... fer me at leastj, since the only gaming forum I roam is CDP RED's.

 

[227]

A billion devs release PC versions of their games with checkpoint saves held over from console versions and everyone just rolls with it. The graphical fidelity of a AAA game is compromised to allow for parity across all versions, though, and internet hell breaks loose.

Seriously, people. I'm all for hating on WD, but let's get our friggin' priorities straight.

 

[Sardukhar]

I kind of think it was always a lie. It is pathetic, and more so since we don't have demos anymore to try before buying, ( this crap just adds salt to that wound), but it joins a long list of how we are screwed by developers.

Again, I think try-before-buy would fix a lot of this crap.

 

[dragonbird]

@Sardukhar - in the unlikely event that Watch Dogs is discounted in the Steam Sale to the value that I think it's worth, is there any reason why I would want the Deluxe Edition?