They could still use the old system (or a new system that doesn't involve infinite potions) without doing away with the hard-to-find ingredients. These rare ingredients could apply an extra effect on the potion, or for different potions required to more easily defeat a tough opponent (such as the Kayran fight in The Witcher 2).
After giving it some thought, the auto-refill thing is strange. However, i do prefer it to constantly having to travel around picking herbs and farming ingredients.
I think they actually can give us some potions from the start. But as I understand all potions are upgradeable, and that is what rare ingredients are for.
I think a better alternative would be the ability to purchase or receive potions from herbalists or alchemists you meet in your travels. Take the herbalist woman from the E3 demo, for example. To thank you for your help you can visit her and share all your known recipes with her, and she'll sell you those potions (in limited amounts over time) for a cheap price.
I think CDPR would somewhat solve the issue they are having, with people not using their potions freely in the game, waiting for that big boss fight, simply by implementing potion making in the monster hunting quests. The quests exist already, it can't be that hard to add an optional objective with potion preparation, like in TW2 fight with the Kayran. In the end, nobody is going to drink a potion, on a random drowner or bandit encounter, unless it is the Swallow potion.
Agreed.
It's pretty easy:
Make herbs and other ingredients available for purchase, then make those herbs collectable in the world itself and required to be used every time you make potions.
Then add the upgrade system and require rare ingredients for it.
Also add the "support potion" and "mutagenic potion" category system. (hopefully with mutagens being not the same as "mutagenic potions")
There you have it.
If you want to make it even easier then go ahead and let 1 potion be consumable/usable 3 times until it is empty, then enable players to later on craft or buy bigger vials in order to be able to drink 4 or 5 times from 1 potion.
That way the whole thing is as simplified as possible for those who want and as complicated and immersive for those who want it that way.
In these past months, I was really looking forward to the game's alchemic system, to see what they could come up with. Why the change? It sounded great from the tidbits of information we had gathered. So, the following is how I thought alchemy could have been like, based on what we knew and what I think can solve the apparent issues that required auto-refilling potions. As always, this is to be intended as nothing else than constructive criticism pointing at what I, in my humble opinion, honestly believe would make the game better. Needless to say I'm also rooting these ideas in this thread's feedback, and mostly in the first game's system.
First of all, no auto-refill. Sorry, but that's just a bad thing for me.
"Meditation" and "support" potions: the most powerful potions are to be consumed during meditation, the weaker "support" ones anytime. "Meditation" potions have a higher toxicity, and their effects are more powerful and last longer than those of a "support" potion. Alternatively, "meditation" potions can also be at the same level of "support" ones but their effects can be activated on command.
You have a limited amount of "support" potions you can carry and thus use in a single battle (say, three in total, such as one Swallow, one Golden Oriole and one Tawny Owl) and you always have to keep an eye on toxicity levels. You also can't have too many potions in your inventory at a time, and meditating for one hour resets all your potion effects and toxicity.
There still is a spot for "mutagenic" potions (you drink them during meditation and their effects, as well as their toxicity, last forever until you deactivate them), but I'm not really keen on this idea. Toxicity levels could become really hard to keep track of, and I liked the concept of rare monster ingredients which unlocked unique abilities; this could also add to customization and replay value.
Upgrading potions: Not a bad idea, but I believe this should be relegated to rare formulas instead of rare ingredients, perhaps found in those "witcher hideouts" of the monster slayers of old. Rare ingredients could be used for mutagenic potions as in the first game (as indicated above) or to enhance a regular potion, but this could lead to frustration in the case of it going to waste.
Plentiful ingredients: every plant gives, for example, five ingredients; they don't have only one flower or leaf, after all. This way you can make several concoctions before being worried about running out of stock, and you won't need to chase every last celandine you spot in the corner of the map. There would be a dedicated and limited space in the inventory for them (say, thirty ingredients per primary substance), and if you really hate wandering the wilds for ingredients, you could stock up on everything you need at a herbalist's (who would NOT sell witcher potions, obviously, but you can sit by their fire and make them yourself).
Additional substances: also known as Albedo, Nigredo and Rubedo, which confer secondary effects to the potions you prepare. Possibly limited to only one between "meditation" and "support" potions, but not necessarily.
Alchemical bases: alcohol and the White Gull potion as a base, with varying degrees of quality. In the first game quality dictated the number of ingredient slots for a potion, so that you could only make the best potions with high-quality bases; this could be modified or expanded upon with adding positive or negative side effects, modified duration, basic power of the potion, and so on. Alcoholic bases would have their separate slot in the inventory as well, and you should be able to use a single bottle several times (also not to make Geralt carry ten bottles of vodka in his bag).
Bombs and oils: Mostly identical to the first game's system. Black powder and grease as bases, not sure about additional substances but there could be creative uses for them.
Can't think of anything else at the moment, and I just wrote what came off the top of my head. Feel free to add your thoughts and ideas. As far as I'm concerned, I believe alchemy should reward foresight and carefulness, yet not discouraging experimentation and audacity. I think this system, while maybe not perfect, would be great at achieving just that.
First of all, no auto-refill. Sorry, but that's just a bad thing for me.
"Meditation" and "support" potions: the most powerful potions are to be consumed during meditation, the weaker "support" ones anytime. "Meditation" potions have a higher toxicity, and their effects are more powerful and last longer than those of a "support" potion. Alternatively, "meditation" potions can also be at the same level of "support" ones but their effects can be activated on command.
You have a limited amount of "support" potions you can carry and thus use in a single battle (say, three in total, such as one Swallow, one Golden Oriole and one Tawny Owl) and you always have to keep an eye on toxicity levels. You also can't have too many potions in your inventory at a time, and meditating for one hour resets all your potion effects and toxicity.
There still is a spot for "mutagenic" potions (you drink them during meditation and their effects, as well as their toxicity, last forever until you deactivate them), but I'm not really keen on this idea. Toxicity levels could become really hard to keep track of, and I liked the concept of rare monster ingredients which unlocked unique abilities; this could also add to customization and replay value.
Upgrading potions: Not a bad idea, but I believe this should be relegated to rare formulas instead of rare ingredients, perhaps found in those "witcher hideouts" of the monster slayers of old. Rare ingredients could be used for mutagenic potions as in the first game (as indicated above) or to enhance a regular potion, but this could lead to frustration in the case of it going to waste.
Plentiful ingredients: every plant gives, for example, five ingredients; they don't have only one flower or leaf, after all. This way you can make several concoctions before being worried about running out of stock, and you won't need to chase every last celandine you spot in the corner of the map. There would be a dedicated and limited space in the inventory for them (say, thirty ingredients per primary substance), and if you really hate wandering the wilds for ingredients, you could stock up on everything you need at a herbalist's (who would NOT sell witcher potions, obviously, but you can sit by their fire and make them yourself).
Additional substances: also known as Albedo, Nigredo and Rubedo, which confer secondary effects to the potions you prepare. Possibly limited to only one between "meditation" and "support" potions, but not necessarily.
Alchemical bases: alcohol and the White Gull potion as a base, with varying degrees of quality. In the first game quality dictated the number of ingredient slots for a potion, so that you could only make the best potions with high-quality bases; this could be modified or expanded upon with adding positive or negative side effects, modified duration, basic power of the potion, and so on. Alcoholic bases would have their separate slot in the inventory as well, and you should be able to use a single bottle several times (also not to make Geralt carry ten bottles of vodka in his bag).
Bombs and oils: Mostly identical to the first game's system. Black powder and grease as bases, not sure about additional substances but there could be creative uses for them.
Can't think of anything else at the moment, and I just wrote what came off the top of my head. Feel free to add your thoughts and ideas. As far as I'm concerned, I believe alchemy should reward foresight and carefulness, yet not discouraging experimentation and audacity. I think this system, while maybe not perfect, would be great at achieving just that.
sorry if answered before but quick question :
Are we limited to one(or a certain number of) each potion type or do we still get to create however number we like and have them refilled with every meditation ?
It would be very interesting to be limited to one of each potion per encounter, coupled with ability to use them in every fight, it would be pretty great.
Somewhat similar to Estus or Magic uses in Dark Souls.
EDIT : Oh nevermind.That's what Toxicity is for anyway.probably pointless to use more than one of each potion.
Are we limited to one(or a certain number of) each potion type or do we still get to create however number we like and have them refilled with every meditation ?
It would be very interesting to be limited to one of each potion per encounter, coupled with ability to use them in every fight, it would be pretty great.
Somewhat similar to Estus or Magic uses in Dark Souls.
EDIT : Oh nevermind.That's what Toxicity is for anyway.probably pointless to use more than one of each potion.
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TW1 system was perfect! For the sake of simplification if it is indeed required, I guess I could live with the removal or simplification of the alcohol requirement.
But CDPR, please, just give us a dev-diary video explaining how your system works. It doesn't have to be edited in some fancy way or contain anything else other than your explanation of how the alchemy system works and how it affects ingredient gathering.
The impression I'm getting from the current system is that alchemy will be completely abandoned within the first ten hours of the game, because everything would be unlocked and upgraded at that point. And NOT unlocking some potions until much later in the game is a no-no unless they are specifically designed to be OP, that would take away from the tactical aspect earlier in the game, just like having to finish most of chapter one in TW2 before you unlocked riposte, effectively lowered the combat-enjoyment prior to that.
I'd like to finish by reiterating what I think would encourage more players to use potions.
Make the effects of potions more powerful, visceral and exciting, examples:
Blizzard - Gives Geralt the ability to perform group-finishers on weaker enemies (only a limited number of times per ingestion)
Wolverine - Geralt deals more damage to additional opponents hit with his sword
Thunderbolt - Increased chance of dealing critical damage and/or staggering an opponent
Petri's Philter - Visually increases the power of Geralt's signs, Aard has greater area of effect and higher chance of knockdown for instance
Come with more suggestions guys, thinking of this was fun
But CDPR, please, just give us a dev-diary video explaining how your system works. It doesn't have to be edited in some fancy way or contain anything else other than your explanation of how the alchemy system works and how it affects ingredient gathering.
The impression I'm getting from the current system is that alchemy will be completely abandoned within the first ten hours of the game, because everything would be unlocked and upgraded at that point. And NOT unlocking some potions until much later in the game is a no-no unless they are specifically designed to be OP, that would take away from the tactical aspect earlier in the game, just like having to finish most of chapter one in TW2 before you unlocked riposte, effectively lowered the combat-enjoyment prior to that.
I'd like to finish by reiterating what I think would encourage more players to use potions.
Make the effects of potions more powerful, visceral and exciting, examples:
Blizzard - Gives Geralt the ability to perform group-finishers on weaker enemies (only a limited number of times per ingestion)
Wolverine - Geralt deals more damage to additional opponents hit with his sword
Thunderbolt - Increased chance of dealing critical damage and/or staggering an opponent
Petri's Philter - Visually increases the power of Geralt's signs, Aard has greater area of effect and higher chance of knockdown for instance
Come with more suggestions guys, thinking of this was fun
I am quite worried by this announcement. The potions system in TW1 was unmatched by any other cRPG, added depth to the game and made it unique. It's true, the ingredients weren't exactly rare but the addition of the special modifiers was what really made it great. You could churn out basic potions like no tomorrow but suddenly, in order to have their more powerful versions you had to carefully partition, plan and mix and match the right ingredients for what you wanted. It added another layer of complexity that made the system incredibly fun and immersive. Also, there was the fact that the potions lasted a significant amount of time (hours in game) which not only added to their usefulness but also made you commit in your choices.
I really hope this decision is reversed and the system is revised to something more immersive and closer to the lore. As was pointed out earlier in the thread, the potions are a basic tool of the witcher's arsenal and the player should be able to acquire most of them in the beginning of the game. Also, once consumed, the system should commit the player to his choice by having the effect be long-lasting. What would have been really great (although probably too late to have something like this now) is a system a bit like the monster hunt hints but where before entering an area Geralt could spots subtle signs that hint as to what type of creatures are populating it and thus the player could be able to plan accordingly and prepare the potions/oils/bombs needed.
I really hope this decision is reversed and the system is revised to something more immersive and closer to the lore. As was pointed out earlier in the thread, the potions are a basic tool of the witcher's arsenal and the player should be able to acquire most of them in the beginning of the game. Also, once consumed, the system should commit the player to his choice by having the effect be long-lasting. What would have been really great (although probably too late to have something like this now) is a system a bit like the monster hunt hints but where before entering an area Geralt could spots subtle signs that hint as to what type of creatures are populating it and thus the player could be able to plan accordingly and prepare the potions/oils/bombs needed.
I absolutely can't understand why devs changed TW1 potions system? That was comfortably, logical, unique. That worked fine. It's perfect for Witcher.
1. There was no need to hurry. You drink potion and have enough time to find and kill monsters. Excellent!
2. Toxicity system make it balanced. Gracefully!
3. Potions was interesting. Not just stupid bonus +5/-5. Exciting!
1. There was no need to hurry. You drink potion and have enough time to find and kill monsters. Excellent!
2. Toxicity system make it balanced. Gracefully!
3. Potions was interesting. Not just stupid bonus +5/-5. Exciting!
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You and me both.
I'd love to know what the hell got into them to take the fun and immersive aspect that is the procedure of actually creating potions out of the game.
There has to be another way to make sure that newcomers to the franchise understand the importance of potions and why it's crucial to actually use them before most fights without forcing that watered down iteration of an absolutely solid system on people who have been with the series since its inception.
I think the potions system of The Witcher 2 is the more realistic, but not as good as the previous in terms of gameplay, it´s understandable that the devs want to make a mix of both the systems, I only hope it isn´t a non-sense system, but I have faith on the team. 
But if for some reason anyone in the developers team is reading this thread, PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE, REMOVE THE CAT POTION, I BEG OF YOU, that was non-sense in the previous games, WITCHERS SEE IN THE DARK, with their Witcher/Cat eyes, their spooky eyes, which are the most notorious and principal mutation of them, their eyes are LITERALLY MEANINGLESS in the games, Geralt aside from the potions is literally human, so please, correct that.
But if for some reason anyone in the developers team is reading this thread, PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE, REMOVE THE CAT POTION, I BEG OF YOU, that was non-sense in the previous games, WITCHERS SEE IN THE DARK, with their Witcher/Cat eyes, their spooky eyes, which are the most notorious and principal mutation of them, their eyes are LITERALLY MEANINGLESS in the games, Geralt aside from the potions is literally human, so please, correct that.