Jobs Store Support Register
THE WITCHER
THE WITCHER 2
THE WITCHER 3
THE WITCHER TALES

The Yennefer/Triss choice in TW3

+
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Belzebutinov

Senior user
#1,301
devilsadvocate said:
Agree. But, and this is a big but, Ciri is not a child anymore. If CDPR had chosen use a child-Ciri, I would agree that the infant character could have restricted Geralt for having a choice. But we dont know how adult Ciri will behave in TW3, and in fact she is one of the characters who should be more different from the books, just because this growning. Some core facts about her and her skills or feeling wont change of course (sure, she will love Yen and Geralt as parents, and Tris as a big sis, and so) but I bet writers have tried to develop her in some ways that maybe will surprise us, all-knowing twa... I mean, us, the readers.
Click to expand...

This is actually an excellent point. I personally think we do have something of an idea as to what adult Ciri should be like because, let's face it: she's practically an adult by the end of the series. She's practically an adult by he year count of course, but more importantly she's an adult because of the things she's lived through. She's been through more than most teens should ever go through, and she is in every way a functioning adult by the time the story is done.

However, and to your credit, you are perfectly correct in asserting that we have no idea of what she's been through since. Hell, for all we know, with her time-travelling capabilities, she could perfectly well tell Geralt "Look, if you choose X over Y/if you do A instead of B/..., the end result is ¤¤¤. I know, because I was there when you made that choice, and I came back in time to let you know." Obviously, explained like that in 20 words it sounds (... is) cheesy, but you get the idea.

Moreover, it would tie in with the very strong "Destiny" thematic which, until now, has always suggested that ever since Geralt chose the Child, he chose a very specific path. Despite the fact he can't see all ends, his path has an end which, in all likelihood, is not his to choose.

Book spoiler, to further out my argument.
I'll add this argument, but as a spoiler for those who aren't done with the books. Geralt cast Ciri aside at first. Not that he didn't like her: he (correctly, IMHO) decided his lifestyle was in every way inappropriate for a child - even more so for a child who obviously needed a lot of care. He cast her aside, proceeded to nearly die, and got carted away... to her. Then, he finally got the fucking hint. If CDPR chooses to actually kill people off to force our choice, it will be perfectly legit. I just hope you can save lives by being savvy.
It would be a nice nod to those who read the books too: if you follow what should be his Destiny, you lose the ability to choose what you want to do (since you're following a path); if you choose to fight Destiny, you get freedom - or the illusion thereof - but you pay for it in blood. Could be a nice conundrum :D
 
Last edited:
S

StaGiors

Forum veteran
#1,304
What I'm thinking is, that we will not get to choose, until the game has played out for quite a while. If we meet Yennefer at the start, I doubt there will be any conversations about relationships. Neither Triss nor Yennefer would bring it up, because Ciri is more important, and I assume that Geralt could use both of their help, to find her. Along the way many things could happen, and as @Belzebutinov said, we might not have a choice at all. This of course goes both ways. True, if Yennefer turns her shiny purple eyes on Triss, she would back away, if not immediately, eventually.

However, Yennefer being Yennefer, might snap at Geralt for wasting time, for dragging her along with him, while she would be more efficient searching for Ciri on her own. And take off. And then we are suddenly left with Triss.

My only hope is that there is enough time for character development, I don't doubt CDPR will find that time. I do not want to see just Yennefer's good side, I do not want the "choice" to be instant. I want her to give Geralt trouble, I would like that the differences between their characters are shown. That way it will be much more rewarding, when people find out about their similarities.

For me, if CDPR portrays Yennefer, the way they should, there is really no choice to be made. Triss is in Geralt's eyes a child. She is young, and while he cares for her, it is not the same, as he does for Yennefer. Triss is in that way more like Ciri, rather than Yennefer. At least that is my impression.
 
Last edited:
B

Belzebutinov

Senior user
#1,305
I very much like Triss as a character, and I feel that CDPR really made an interesting choice by giving her such a prominent role in the games up to now. But from a romantic standpoint, you have to call her what she is, for Geralt: a fling. She did her best trying to convince him otherwise, but in the end she is no more and no less than a passing sex interest to him.

This isn't to say that Geralt doesn't have genuine feelings for her: they're just not what you'd call romantic feelings. Triss is one of his absolute best and most trusted friends (despite the fact she repeatedly abused his trust on a number of points), and one of the precious few people he feels comfortable having around Ciri. When you think about it, that's a pretty huge sign of trust, as, to the best of my knowledge, the only people he trusts to look after Ciri without trying to harm her or use her are his witcher brethren - all five or so of them -, Yennefer, and finally Triss. Maybe Nenneke too (or whatever her name was), but that's about it.

So in the end, I really feel that even if Geralt was actually given a choice - which, as I've explained, I think is damn unlikely - he's already made it: Triss is a friend. Yes, they got it on a few times, because Geralt is indeed a hard dog to keep on the porch, and Triss is quite the attractive lady, but that's hardly more than par for the course. Triss knows this and I can't imagine she seriously believes she can replace Yen, so I fully expect her to just shrug it off, like she always has. My best guess is you'll probably have the possibility of having a last romp or two with her before finding Yen (think of it as break-up sex!), but that'll probably be the most choice you'll get.
 
S

StaGiors

Forum veteran
#1,307
Marcin Momot said:
I know... but can't tell:troll:
Click to expand...

 
B

BILBO.BAGGINS

Senior user
#1,310
@Belzebutinov @StaGiors
I totally agree on how Geralt feels about Triss.They are just f^ck buddies.(and they are not even that in the books.Apart from their fling,which started by Triss using a little magic,there're a couple of instances when she tries to throw herself at him and Geralt puts her in her place. )All that you say is true in canon,but the problem is,as was made obvious after 130 pages,that the majority of people are either neutral/flexible or don't give a damn about canon at all.
It's really laughable though,that the canon becomes important and something to be respected when it comes to Yennefer's curly raven hair. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
C

cbutz89

Rookie
#1,313
A possible solution to a lore problem

This post will be about Geralt Yennefer/Triss choice. If this creates redundancy or pulls the conversation away from the CGI, continue on. If you are interested take a read!

If you do not have time or patience to read the post, please skim through the TLDR summary.
One issue is how can geralt choose Triss if he and Yennefer are linked?
I have been thinking about this “choice” between Yen/Triss/ or no one. Keep in mind that CDPR probably already knows how they are going to solve this and all this speculation is just that: speculation. Anyways I have a theory as to how having a choice may fit in with the lore. I have read some of the books but not all of them so there may be understanding errors.
First I will define or contextualize two things, and it will be interesting to see how CDPR’s view on these two concepts:
1. When I talk about“Choice”: Basically it is any method CDPR uses for the player to choose When I say choosing/choice/choose, it can mean anything from a choosing of Yennefer/Triss/None via a dialogue selection, or an action such as giving something to Triss/ Yen/ or Yarpin, or the choice being a culmination of how you treated and responded to characters, etc.
It could be Geralt stating, through a dialogue choice, that the “Last Wish” link is severed (More on that later)..

2. How CDPR defines nature of the Last Wish link between Geralt and Yennefer:
We know that the fates of Yen and Geralt are linked, but how much and what is inked? Is it:
A. Linked in fate and love. They are linked as if one dies, so does the other, AND linked in love? Here, their fates are sealed together banded in a voluntary love that the Last Wish entrenches forever. If one dies the other does as well, and the binding of fate sealed the fate of their love lives and destined them to be together. Their feelings towards one another will never end and cannot end due to the Last Wish. They are linked in fate and love.
Their love can be voluntary but it never ends.
OR
B. Linked in fate but not love. They are linked in fate, but the love between them was voluntary and is not bound by entrenched forever. They can stop having those feelings towards one another and choose to love others? They are linked in Fate but not Love.
I feel the books heavily leaned towards (A), but how CDPR views this then opens up options to give players a “choice.”

It should be noted that if CDPR’s view on the link between Geralt and Yennefer is ( B ),in fate but not love, then they can state that the fates of Geralt and Yennefer are linked, but both can choose to love whoever they see fit. Geralt freely chose to love Yennefer.
If CDPR views the link as (A),in fate and love, then there are two scenarios that potentially could give Geralt “choices”

If the link is A, then depending on what Geralt (player) chooses will determine what universe that Geralt is in and the nature of the link between Yennefer and Geralt. In one universe the link can be broken by death, the other it cannot be broken by death. Therefore Geralt would either be in Universe I or II and we would know which one he is in by his, or our, choice.

Universe I: The death of Geralt and Yennefer did not break the link they had/have.
If Geralt chooses Yennefer, then that reveals that Geralt is in a WItcher Universe where the Last Wish was not broken by death. He will always love Yennifer as they are destined for each other. Geralt cannot chose Triss in this reality, nor chooses no one, as he is compelled to be with Yennefer. Therefore choosing Yennefer reveals that this is the universe Geralt is in. This universe also fits in with the novels more. Also remember this only applies if CDPR views the link as A; in fate and love.

Universe II: The death of Geralt and Yennefer broke the link they once had.
This universe is revealed if Geralt chooses Triss , someone else, or no one.
Remember, in this universe the link between Geralt and Yennefer was one that bound their fate and love in one another; link A, in fate and love. Once both died and came back the link was severed thus giving Geralt, technically the players, the option of loving someone else. Geralt could mention that he cannot feel the bond between Yennefer and himself. This universe would be more appealing to those who have not read the books, or those who have but favored Triss, or lone wolf Geralt. Remember this is not the link described in B, but is still A.A just has been broken. Also Geralt, in this universe could still technically choose Yennefer even if the link is broken.

Conclusion:
Yes it takes some twisting to achieve, but it can be done, possibly. This is pure speculation and probably is not near what CDPR is thinking at all. I am just trying to reconcile the idea of choice between book fans/ gamer fans and the established lore of books and games. This theory is not perfect and probably has enough holes to be labeled Swiss Cheese. Thank you for your time.


TLDR:
Geralt having the ability to “choose” depends on how CDPR defines the link between Geralt and Yennefer and that link can be broken by death. CDPR can define the link between Yennefer and Geralt in two ways: A. The Last Wish linked Geralt and Yennefer in fate and love (they will never stop feeling this way about each other no matter what and their lives are connected; live/live, die/die) B. The Last Wish only linked Geralt and Yennefer in fate but not love. They are always connected but their love and feelings are voluntary and can end.

If CDPR chooses B then Geralt can freely choose whomever he wants, though in the books he freely chooses Yennefer. Therefore he can choose anything. Linked in fate but not love.

If CDPR chooses A, then there are still several options for a “choice.” Remember the link between the two is of fate and love, but can that link be broken by death? Depending on Geralts choice can reveal the nature of the universe the player is playing in.
Universe I: Geralt chooses Yennifer: That reveals that they are in a universe where the link and bond between Yennifer and Geralt was not broken by death. This fits more with the books/bookfans. Therefore he will always choose Yennifer in this universe.
Universe II: Geralt chooses Triss, someone else, or no one else. The link and bond between Geralt and Yennifer broke due to death. Geralt can choose Yennifer, Triss, etc., although if he chooses Yennifer one may not know which universe they are in and it might as well be Universe I. He can choose anyone in this universe.
 
Last edited:
S

StaGiors

Forum veteran
#1,314
@cbutz

Thank you for your post.

I hope mine helps you.

Geralt's last wish, was pretty weird. He didn't link himself to Yennefer. He didn't link himself and Yennefer with bonds of Love or Fate. What he asked for is this: He asked, for his destiny, to be put in Yennefer's hands. He surrendered himself to her, completelly. Yennefer had doubts, that even a genie could grant that wish, but it seems to have worked so far.

I find it extremely.. what's the word.. interesting, that Geralt "died" in Yennefer's hands. The Sword of Destiny has two edges, one is you, and the other one is Death? Geralt seems to believe so. So he died in her arms, both parts of his Destiny literally in Yennefer's hands. That was pretty cool I think.

Could a bond like this break by death? Well Yennefer died too, so who can really tell. But the circumstances of their deaths were rather obscure. One can argue that they actually did not die, because if you die, you are dead, you can't return to the living.

So, yes CDPR has an issue to deal with, and that is, if players should have a choice between Triss and Yennefer. I think the players should have a choice. But to me, the choice is clear, from the start. It doesn't matter to me what Yennefer or Triss do in the game, what they have done in the past, or anything. For Geralt, there is no choice. In my opinion, and according to my interpretation of the books.
 
Last edited:
D

Devils4dvocate

Senior user
#1,315
See what we did? Now we know that the CGI trailer will focus on Yennefer, and it will be showed soon, and Triss will appear and all my dreams will be true.

Also, we know maybe I tend to overanalyze. A bit.

@cbtuz

We and others in this thread have already mentioned the Last Wish as a narrative point which CDRP could (or even should) refer (or even use), directly or indirectly, to solve the Yenn/Triss conflict. Although you put it into words very nicely.

Anyway, I came up with some alternatives even if the writers consider Geralt and Yenn are bonded in fate and love (even through dead) to make a decision possible. One would be constructing a story in which Geralt confronts fate (like he tries to do sometimes in the first novels) and make a plot about free will vs fate. Other would be "upgrade" the Triss-Geralt relationship whith a magical narrative trick similar as the one Sapkowski used in the Last Wish .I have tried explain both possibilities in previous posts.
 
C

cbutz89

Rookie
#1,316
@StaGiors
Thanks for explaining that to me, that kind of complicates my theory! @devilsadvocate
That is an interesting alternative. I have also thought of perhaps using a narrative trick to elevate the Triss/Geralt relationship. I figured that the LW was probably covered. I apologize if the post created some redundancy in the conversation. I actually thought about posting a few days ago but decided not to. Ultimately I thought I'd share my thoghts on the subject. If it pulled away from the conversation of the upcomming Yennefer CGI trailer please feel free to ignore it and move on!

As for the trailer, I am anticipating it. I have no idea what the context will be other than the scenes witht he crow in the head.
 
S

StaGiors

Forum veteran
#1,318
@cbutz

Oh no do not worry about that, the previous topic was kind of dying away anyway. It was not the OP's topic either, it was just Marcin trolling us. :p

It is always fun to read new forum members' fresh ideas so thanks for sharing.

Welcome to the forums, have fun posting and reading. This thread is actually one of my favorites, so try roaming through the pages, if you are interested in the topic.

Cheers! :cheers:
 
P

prelate

Rookie
#1,319
I don't know what is happening. Just lost track of it. I'm too dumb for you guys. Simple - "yes, you'll be able to be with Triss instead of Yen" would suffice.

So ... yeah..
 
C

cbutz89

Rookie
#1,320
@StaGiors and Devilsadvocate
okay great, just wanted to check my bases. In my lurking days I would read through threadsand find sometimes new posters would recycle old conversations when newer ones were discussed. I'll make sure to post around some more. I've been lurking off and on for the past few years. Thanks for the welcome!
@prelate

As simple as that would be,it probably is seen as taking away from pre-launch hype and speculation or they could see it as spoiling too much.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Gameplay suggestions
0
373
The Witcher 3 REDkit Playtest
1
271
Autosave Settings
1
131
The system of grenades carrying
5
370
Please, for the love of Silverhand, let us remap our gamepads.
0
113
Top Bottom