To say something positive about V3.0 (yes I said positive don't shoot me) the Meta characters mechanic works very well for me. With time I'm growing lazy, so anything that can speed game and make game mastering labors less burdensome is welcome.
Well I had high hopes for V3, seeing how long it was in the making. The background had some work to it, but the rules just seemed a regurgitation of stuff that was in the Fuzion core book without expanded upon them. I would have LOVE to have seen the rules to be more integrated with the Cyberpunk world. This was around the time when what D&D was evolving into in 3.5 I was expecting to see more fun things you can do with the rules. Granted, I understand that the players and ref should be responsible for being the creative force behind what the rules can be used, but it helps foster creativity to give some examples on what is possible. Also, not all players and referees have the time to come up with new ideas, especially if you have a full time job.
Like the rest, I thought the artwork was, well, horrible. I'm sure there was some effort in creating the dolls and trying a new style of artwork, but it felt cheap and lacking. Cyberpunk deals with a lot of adult themes(drugs, sex, violence) and to have the art look like my baby sister had a go at it, really gave me a bias on anything that was good in it. Style over substance...
Like the rest, I thought the artwork was, well, horrible. I'm sure there was some effort in creating the dolls and trying a new style of artwork, but it felt cheap and lacking. Cyberpunk deals with a lot of adult themes(drugs, sex, violence) and to have the art look like my baby sister had a go at it, really gave me a bias on anything that was good in it. Style over substance...
:').... no need to say more haha.
Cyberpunk 2020:
Cyberpunk V3 / 203X: (the actual pictures in the source book)
♫♫ High Tech Cyberdolls! ♫♫
Thought the french edition had better pictures in it:
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i don't know where the server is located, but that vile green filth certainly fails the miller test in my eyes. such foul smut, avert thine eyes children
My eyes!
It burns!
My eyes are bleeding!!! (or rather exploaded...!)
It's like watching a poledancing of a leprotic!
It burns!
My eyes are bleeding!!! (or rather exploaded...!)
It's like watching a poledancing of a leprotic!
I think we all agree that v3 was a nice idea but, without pointing any fingers, it coulda been done better... But seriously. V3 sucks in every aspect if you take time and think about that aspect. One of minor reason for it sucking dick is the lazines of Mike. Srsly. Half of the book is a copy paste, with all mistakes, from 2020. Magical bracelets? FUCKING CITY-IN-SPRAY??? Giant city on a giant tank?????? All powerful altcults, not confined to geographical bonds, yet confined to single geographical point. Nonesenses following nonsenses following inconsequences. Did I mentioned magical bracelets and copying half of cp2020 without any regard to the mechanics changes? V3 tries to be cyberpunk, posthuman, postapocalypse and dungeons and dragons. And falls short every time.
I haven't heard of either of those games, which is the forbidden game? and whats wrong with it? are the two questions that come to the forefront of my mind.
What I liked about Cyberpunk 3.. I liked that Net runners had to be local. The parts where Black Ice had a physical presence so no one was left out. Some of the new tech was interesting.
However, the system had a lot of holes in it. I would have said it was Mike's first amateur attempt at a RPG, had I not known him for about as long as the internet has been the WWW. I preferred the Line art of original Cyberpunk, but I didn't have nearly the problem with the dolls that others had. In a way, the dolls sort of reinforced the setting, when looking good is as easy as walking into a in and out sculpt shop, probably eventually looking as plastic as dolls, especially in cheap shops.
The new Archtypes were interesting to me, though the familly/corp/tribe thing seems to reinforce that you were unlikely to be part of a mixed group.
The corp as a meta character is quite a nice piece of work though. It allows you to have a score card, in a way.
However, the system had a lot of holes in it. I would have said it was Mike's first amateur attempt at a RPG, had I not known him for about as long as the internet has been the WWW. I preferred the Line art of original Cyberpunk, but I didn't have nearly the problem with the dolls that others had. In a way, the dolls sort of reinforced the setting, when looking good is as easy as walking into a in and out sculpt shop, probably eventually looking as plastic as dolls, especially in cheap shops.
The new Archtypes were interesting to me, though the familly/corp/tribe thing seems to reinforce that you were unlikely to be part of a mixed group.
The corp as a meta character is quite a nice piece of work though. It allows you to have a score card, in a way.
The other thing that comes to mind with my V3 issues was that it completely rewrote the world. For something you could think was right around the corner kinda became more fantasy sci-fi, which made a lot of the previous supplements obsolete as well as my old campaign notes. When D&D went through its editions, the worlds didn't change much. You still had orcs, elves, gods, dragons, etc. Yes there were some changes but they didn't drastically change the settings like V3 did.
Kind of an argument -for- V3, really, in a setting that is all about change and evolving the human being and culture. Our world changes, and fast recently, so to stay realistic, 2020 would have to change as well.
A friend of mine, and a student of history, ( he has a Master's in same), figured that the 2020 setting couldn't last longer than 30 years, maximum.
I can see your point. But the appeal to 2013/2020 was the familiarity of what we are currently living in. I just don't think it would evolve into what was present in V3. The alt cults for some reason. just didn't work for me. I can see the CP world changing into something like what was presented in Snowcrash, I felt like humanity was evolving into various races, which is not what I expected to see CP2020 become. If I wanted different races I would be playing Shadowrun. I don't know, V3 just didn't give me the feeling of "I'm glad I waited for this."
Of course, I agree. On both points. Maybe in another 100 years for the evolve and, well, I do like the game as a science fiction setting, but it was not what I'd wanted from V.3
Of course, questions is, what -did- we want from V3, back in the day? System weirdness like Deadlift values, drug addiction and cost rules and the Net cleaned up...but what else?
Honnestly everything from V.3 is a problem :/
It looks like an amateur book when it's an official made by the official RT...
Pictures are awfull... I mean, if I was the RT boss and a guy bring me dolls pictures saying me "It's going to look super awesome" I'd told him:
"What the fuck are you on? did you smoked crack or something?" Seriously.
First thing I thought when I saw the original V3 was "wow... is it some fan made 2020 follow-up or something?"
No it was official and it sucked, book was awfull and the setting plain retard.
Not "free bashing" on RT, but come on, it just look like some leaked game concept, nothing more.
Everything screams "unfinished", alt-cult are plain stupid, we've come from ultra-violent gang to.... Alt cult.
IN 10 YEARS, WTF?!
I think they tried to do something new with V3, you know, like "Hey, let's do something really futuristic!". But instead of making a whole new "cyberpunk" game, with a different name, they tried to attach it to cyberpunk, and you don't need to be a genius to know why I doesn't worked...
I think Cyberpunk 2077 Is going to be the "true" V3, with a really advanced technology (just look at the trailer, way more "futuristic" than 2020), they'll probably keep some thing they thought about, like no web "because virus blablablabla *insert background here to make it plausible*", alt cult will probably be erased and gangs will be back, neo corporation will probably be erased, but we'll have a different kind of corporation, etc....
You know, updating 2020 with V3... but in something good, not something you just want to light your BBQ with :/
Well that's how I feel it anyway, V3 really killed the licence, so probably Mike Pondsmith will try to do something better this time.
First, it should have been like 2077, pushed really into the future, like 2100.
If I want to play "cyberpunk 2020"... I play 2020
V3 wast 10year after as I said, so it was just useless.
They could have take the setting, pushing it way further in the future, adding spatial corporations/colony, new kind of weapon, like energy weapon.
Implementing a nice and effective Netrunning system more than the awfull mess from 2020 that no one use, we already had Cybernetics, they could had added Genetics, you know enhancing stuff for your character but in a more natural way, with less humanity's cost, stuff like this.
Or just take 2020, and refine the rules, taking what's there and add stuff for Media, Corporate, Rockerboy, etc... because there aren't many.
Or even take Cyberpunk, but in Europe, 2020 was in Night City, US, 2030 could have been in XXXX City, somewhere in Europe, adding background and all, bringing new stuff, so it would have better fitted together, I don't know :/
It looks like an amateur book when it's an official made by the official RT...
Pictures are awfull... I mean, if I was the RT boss and a guy bring me dolls pictures saying me "It's going to look super awesome" I'd told him:
"What the fuck are you on? did you smoked crack or something?" Seriously.
First thing I thought when I saw the original V3 was "wow... is it some fan made 2020 follow-up or something?"
No it was official and it sucked, book was awfull and the setting plain retard.
Not "free bashing" on RT, but come on, it just look like some leaked game concept, nothing more.
Everything screams "unfinished", alt-cult are plain stupid, we've come from ultra-violent gang to.... Alt cult.
IN 10 YEARS, WTF?!
I think they tried to do something new with V3, you know, like "Hey, let's do something really futuristic!". But instead of making a whole new "cyberpunk" game, with a different name, they tried to attach it to cyberpunk, and you don't need to be a genius to know why I doesn't worked...
I think Cyberpunk 2077 Is going to be the "true" V3, with a really advanced technology (just look at the trailer, way more "futuristic" than 2020), they'll probably keep some thing they thought about, like no web "because virus blablablabla *insert background here to make it plausible*", alt cult will probably be erased and gangs will be back, neo corporation will probably be erased, but we'll have a different kind of corporation, etc....
You know, updating 2020 with V3... but in something good, not something you just want to light your BBQ with :/
Well that's how I feel it anyway, V3 really killed the licence, so probably Mike Pondsmith will try to do something better this time.
First, it should have been like 2077, pushed really into the future, like 2100.
If I want to play "cyberpunk 2020"... I play 2020
V3 wast 10year after as I said, so it was just useless.
They could have take the setting, pushing it way further in the future, adding spatial corporations/colony, new kind of weapon, like energy weapon.
Implementing a nice and effective Netrunning system more than the awfull mess from 2020 that no one use, we already had Cybernetics, they could had added Genetics, you know enhancing stuff for your character but in a more natural way, with less humanity's cost, stuff like this.
Or just take 2020, and refine the rules, taking what's there and add stuff for Media, Corporate, Rockerboy, etc... because there aren't many.
Or even take Cyberpunk, but in Europe, 2020 was in Night City, US, 2030 could have been in XXXX City, somewhere in Europe, adding background and all, bringing new stuff, so it would have better fitted together, I don't know :/
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Good points. IT definitely would have been great if it include supplement materials into one source. Like the different flavors of the roles.
Agree, one of the most annoying thing in Cyberpunk 2020 is the lack of "hard rules" for some roles, sure there are some in supplements, but I think they should have added some directly in the source book, like the composition roll, investment, etc...
If you've read plenty cyberpunk books, and really "get in" the Cyberpunk 2020 setting you can figure those by yourself, but for a total begginer, I can understand that they feel lost.
Shadowrun 5 and 4 edition make a real good work on world evolution in the cyberpunk aspects of the game, if you get rid of magic, elves and that sort of things I always say that you could get SR4-5 rules and play a very cool cyberpunk game.
If all of you feel like me you have been asking yourselves for a long time, "Why ShadowRun has so many editions, all of them very well done, and CP2020 don't have a single rework?"
I dont want to seem off topic, only note that Shadowrun make a good evolution of the game, started around 2050 and have been evolving up to 2075 keeping the cyberpunk theme and updating the Net in a great way, not simply wiping out the whole internet because is annoying for playing.
If all of you feel like me you have been asking yourselves for a long time, "Why ShadowRun has so many editions, all of them very well done, and CP2020 don't have a single rework?"
I dont want to seem off topic, only note that Shadowrun make a good evolution of the game, started around 2050 and have been evolving up to 2075 keeping the cyberpunk theme and updating the Net in a great way, not simply wiping out the whole internet because is annoying for playing.
Personally, I wanted, I still want... Cyberpunk 2020, but pushed further back... by that I mean I want the world exactly as presented in 2020, but the timeline is stretched out, so that the advanced tech has legacy, cyberlimbs and the like to have been around for more than one generation...
Of course that means updating some of the tech, like cellphones and computers, to more closely match what we hbut ave today, but nothing too crazy...
Of course that means updating some of the tech, like cellphones and computers, to more closely match what we hbut ave today, but nothing too crazy...