Combat system

[Calistarius]

Lastly, for now, although a long text speech/monologue may be convenient for you to write, ( I should know this - stop smirking!), it is less convenient for others to read and parse. A lot of your ideas will be missed. Consider building tighter arguments or focussing on key points.

I do everything I can to not write large. To keep it small and to the point and all that. Unfortunatly I just eventually reach a point where I am unable to reduce my post anymore, where it feels like if I remove more my post will not make sence anymore, or my point will not come across, or what ever. It's not a matter of refusing to write small, it's a matter that in many cases I am just compleatly incapable of doing so. Details are extreamly importent to me, and as such I have a really hard time sifting out the "unimportent" stuff... stuff which to me is actually really importent and relevant to my point. Which is why I have always envied people who are able to convay their thoughts with only a few words or sentences. But be asured that even though my posts are big... they could be bigger... I have had posts in the past which when posted where still massive, but where the original size was 10 times the size... those are posts which have taken be pretty much an entire day to "fix". XD

Anyway... I do apologise if I seemed confrontational in my previous post/posts. Certain "tones" sometimes creaps into my posts even if I do not feel that way, or intend the post to have that "tone" or not.

 

[Suhiira]

Regardless, let's avoid terms like consoleporn and carebear - they are mental shortcuts and rarely as accurate as they are insulting.

My apologies, I just found the "accurate" connotation amusing and didn't consider the "insulting" implication.

 

[braindancer12]

We
Are
Watching.

Gang, stay polite and stay friendly.

The idea here is NOT to convert the other guy to your point of view. It's a forum and that thinking tends to lead to confrontation.

The idea is to explain your point of view and explore others', then use that to re examine your own, if you'd like.

So it's okay if we go over the same ground with new people, or even each other - sometimes we repeat ourselves and someone chimes in with something new.

Some times we refine our argument or clarify it for others.

Regardless, let's avoid terms like consoleporn and carebear - they are mental shortcuts and rarely as accurate as they are insulting.

Try not to gang up on a minority view too much -it isolates other people and builds resentment. Either chime in with your own twist or raise a new point, don't just group-echo each other and smack the other guy into muck.

Lastly, for now, although a long text speech/monologue may be convenient for you to write, ( I should know this - stop smirking!), it is less convenient for others to read and parse. A lot of your ideas will be missed. Consider building tighter arguments or focussing on key points.

It's not a fight - you don't have to counter punch each "attack", especially if someone else already has.

Now, I must return to the Real World. It's ugly and sharp but hey, at least it has cake.

wow what a speech! i am impressed, i will give you a REDpoint for it, you earned it, spend it for what every you want.....

 

[Suhiira]

wow what a speech! i am impressed, i will give you a REDpoint for it, you earned it, spend it for what every you want.....

Careful, we have to watch Sards' "Egometer", let it get too high and something might explode ... maybe Dragon?

 

[braindancer12]

Careful, we have to watch Sards' "Egometer", let it get too high and something might explode ... maybe Dragon?

dont worry i am always checking Sard with my egometer while giving him compliments, safety first

 

[dragonbird]

And I have safety valves. So no risk of explosion.

 

[Calistarius]

And I have safety valves. So no risk of explosion.

Those can be tampered with though... just look at Mythbusters work with water heaters.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

You people are giving sard way more attention than is good for him.

 

[crimzonwarrior]

Well I am picturing something about on par with the Witcher 3 system. Except focused around classes this time out. So you would have cyborgs that have heavily enhanced reflexes, metal armor, and melee vs cyborgs with what ever else specialized in hacking, fire arms, mix, social, etc.

 

[Suhiira]

Well I am picturing something about on par with the Witcher 3 system. Except focused around classes this time out.

I'm REALLY hoping for no "classes" just "roles".
A class system (D&D for example) is built around restricting abilities to the classes, you HAVE to be X "class" to have Y "ability". Fine and dandy for a party based game but horrible for a single character one.

 

[Suhiira]

"The main thing is to make the skills have a tangible effect on the gameplay to make it worth having and improving them, and to make it fun to find out what all you can do with them if/when you have them."

I think that's really, really important, those bits. I like the rest, but I hope that if REDs see nothing else, they see that.

Hear, hear!

While I can sort of understand where the "let player skill decide" crowd comes from (after all they were raised on Mario and FPS games) CP2077 is suppose to be a ROLE PLAY game thus character skills, not player, should ... must ... be paramount. If for no other reason then to make CP2077 a different game play experience from today's generic shooters.

Does anyone really want the game to be "just another shooter"?

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I'm REALLY hoping for no "classes" just "roles".
A class system (D&D for example) is built around restricting abilities to the classes, you HAVE to be X "class" to have Y "ability". Fine and dandy for a party based game but horrible for a single character one.

Agreed, but one would still hope that the choice of the "role" isn't just cosmetic or mere flavor. That there are inherent traits that separate a cop from a rockerboy, corp, and a solo (beyond the one special ability).

 

[Nars]

Hear, hear!

While I can sort of understand where the "let player skill decide" crowd comes from (after all they were raised on Mario and FPS games) CP2077 is suppose to be a ROLE PLAY game thus character skills, not player, should ... must ... be paramount. If for no other reason then to make CP2077 a different game play experience from today's generic shooters.

Does anyone really want the game to be "just another shooter"?

Since when having real time shooting mechanic makes game a shooter?

 

[crimzonwarrior]

I'm REALLY hoping for no "classes" just "roles".
A class system (D&D for example) is built around restricting abilities to the classes, you HAVE to be X "class" to have Y "ability". Fine and dandy for a party based game but horrible for a single character one.

I like classes because when you use a roll, or a free form system you miss out on potentially super focused based abilities limiting gameplay. For example say there will end be a "heavy body" , and "maneuverable type body" setup. With the heavy body being slower moving, but being able destroy large structures, kick down doors, throw guys a mile away, and the maneuverable type body being able to move faster than bullets, move like a ninja, fall a thousand feet without damage.

This creates two radically different ways of playing, and more diversity as apposed to being like the Skyrim protagonist where you can just do everything, but because you can do everything the extremes of what you can do are limited. So you can be a Juggernaut wizard rouge however the difference between those gameplay types is almost non existent. Being a rouge is reduced to using a bow/dagger while squatting, being a warrior is standing while holding a two handed weapon, being a mage is standing while throwing flickers of light slightly different than the bow. When you can do "everything" than "everything" has to be taken consideration to every other ability you can use. Which leads to a single class with a bunch of gimped shallow mechanics.

However I am not saying that we shouldn't have the ability to "change" are nature as that would lead to stale gameplay even with very deep mechanics. I just think that those mechanics should definitely demand their pound of flesh from you. With the ability to use other abilities switched out in exchange for something else.

 

[Suhiira]

The problem in a single character NON party game is you wind up with some game elements you cannot perform due to your "class".

Again using D&D as an example, if you're not a rogue you can't pick locks, if you're not a cleric you can't heal.
NOT good for a single character game.

 

[Suhiira]

Since when having real time shooting mechanic makes game a shooter?

If that real time shooting mechanic is PLAYER based rather then CHARACTER SKILL based it's a shooter.
As simple as that.
No amount of other character skill based interaction in the game changes the fundamental fact that the games combat mechanics are "shooter" not "RPG".

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

I don't think that stats should affect gunplay.

But it should affect certain things.

For example explosives.

Explosives are very much underrated and underappreciated in video games and it would be more then appropriate to have a stat that dictated how powerful of an IED you could make.

 

[Nars]

If that real time shooting mechanic is PLAYER based rather then CHARACTER SKILL based it's a shooter.
As simple as that.

So whenever I start Witcher 2 I'm playing a Hack and slash game, not RPG? Now it all makes sense.

As Dragonbird mentioned, there is much more to the game than it's combat mechanics. Besides, character skill can have significant influence on real time combat. You only making it easier (more natural) so it's your job to put sights on target without game double checking it (dice roll) every time.

 

[Suhiira]

So whenever I start Witcher 2 I'm playing a Hack and slash game, not RPG? Now it all makes sense.

As Dragonbird mentioned, there is much more to the game than it's combat mechanics. Besides, character skill can have significant influence on real time combat. You only making it easier (more natural) so it's your job to put sights on target without game double checking it (dice roll) every time.

You assume that since you grew up playing shooters putting pixel crosshairs on a pixel target is easy and natural. It may be for you because you grew up doing it, it's unnatural and anything but easy for a good many folks.
Different people, different opinions.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

So whenever I start Witcher 2 I'm playing a Hack and slash game, not RPG?

As far as combat goes, why not. That's pretty much how it plays. Would that make you think less of the game?

Witcher 2 is the sort of typical action RPG where the character = your agility on controlling him + the gear you get, and while there is an ability tree, all it does is give gentle buffs on a pre-mastered skill, that do stack up but none of which are really all that necessary when you know what you're doing.

Can't blame Witcher for doing that, as that's how it was intended, but I wouldn't want quite that from CP2077.

PLEASE NO GRIND!

Gotta agree there. Wouldn't want the game to devolve into a tedious grind (ala TES).