Combat in The Witcher 3

+
My major concern is the dash/dodge system. To me back dash looks broken and should be toned down, or at least balanced to give the side pirouettes and the other elusive maneuvers the same effectiveness. There should be moments in which one maneuver is dangerous and another is safe.

Also enemy A.I. should be at least decent (please, no one would walk on a Yrden sign cast three meters away) and diversified according to the opponent's belonging group (thug, soldier, knight, swords master and so on...).

The game was demoed in easy and with lack of many AI routines, such as group communication and organization of their attacks together, all of this has been confirmed already. No wonder an unfinished alpha AI doesnt look promising.

And about Yrden, I would be a bit more forgiving with what happened in the demo. You have to take into account these are probably stupid bandits AKA low level/danger enemies, and more importantly, they dont know what the hell does yrden do, hell they dont even know if its a sign or a spell or whatever mutant bs a witcher could do. Its not like yrden makes this impressive 3D shield with purple walls that clearly tell you hey dont come closer, it just puts some signs in the ground, which looked at from the bandit's perspective it wouldnt be THAT visible, and that obvious that its forming a circle around Geralt. Then of course IF they notice the signs they would then have to figure out if what it is and so on.

I know you want smart enemies, and me too, but assuring that all of them no matter how simple and regular should not make mistakes and that they have the same information and perspective the player has is immersion breaking and artificial, to say the least.

The backwards dash, do you mean toned down as in made less effective? because that dash barely lets geralt escape from the werewolf's attacks for example, I agree that the dodges should be balanced, except for the special moves, but as it seemed right now the dash is as useful as it needs to be for a tough fight, not for some easy difficulty random bandits in the swamp.
 
The game was demoed in easy and with lack of many AI routines, such as group communication and organization of their attacks together, all of this has been confirmed already
Really? It would be a great if it was official. Can you share the link? Not that I don't believe you, but I want to be sure that this is not just gossip from the community.

You have to take into account these are probably stupid bandits AKA low level/danger enemies, and more importantly, they dont know what the hell does yrden do
If I was an illiterate, ignorant thug, If I saw someone writing down strange signs on the ground, exactly because I don't know what's going on and don't know what that "strange light" is, I'd think twice before stepping on it. Fear of the unknown is natural, it's the basic reaction of every life form in the animal reign.
Walking straight on a "strange light" cast by someone you addressed to as "freak" some seconds before isn't believable at all and it's not a mistake a thug would do (Remember the "Sodd off you freak!" line?).
It would be normal if he rushed head down towards Geralt with ineffective or predictable slashes: that is a plausible mistake, not walking into something menacing and unknown.

it just puts some signs in the ground, which looked at from the bandit's perspective it wouldnt be THAT visible
At that distance even my blind grandmother would see that coming.

I know you want smart enemies, and me too, but assuring that all of them no matter how simple and regular should not make mistakes and that they have the same information and perspective the player has is immersion breaking and artificial, to say the least.
I don't want enemies not making mistakes, I want them to do plausible mistakes, just as I said before.

The backwards dash, do you mean toned down as in made less effective? because that dash barely lets geralt escape from the werewolf's attacks for example, I agree that the dodges should be balanced, except for the special moves, but as it seemed right now the dash is as useful as it needs to be for a tough fight, not for some easy difficulty random bandits in the swamp.
The success ratio of that maneuver in the demos has been ridiculously high, its animation is clunky and unpolished and it has proven to be the evading move-to-go for practically every attack. What I want to say is that, in order to allow variation, strategic depth and the use of side pirouettes, there should be some limitations on backdash properties. In fact, who would care to perform side pirouettes or other dodges if the backdash itself will do the trick 100% of the time?
 
Last edited:
If one wishes to watch the Polish or Russian 35 minute game play demo it would appear that the combat features vary according to the player . For instance there are more combos shown on the Russian and Polish demos and well as less backpedaling or maybe the correct term would be back dashing . Yes the demos were played on easy with a sort of godmode enabled mainly because no one want to see the protagonist die during a game demonstration .
 
If one wishes to watch the Polish or Russian 35 minute game play demo it would appear that the combat features vary according to the player . For instance there are more combos shown on the Russian and Polish demos and well as less backpedaling or maybe the correct term would be back dashing . Yes the demos were played on easy with a sort of godmode enabled mainly because no one want to see the protagonist die during a game demonstration .
I, remember reading in a preview of the gameplay demo of gamescom 2013, that the one who was playing the demo die 1or 2 times, maybe that's the reason why the latest gameplays were played on easy
 
After watching both Russian and Polish demos Im starting to love the combat more and more. For some reason russian/polish demos has a lot more badass combat action than the english one. Anyway.. Im excited! By now or atleast by the release - the combat should be even better :)
 
Really? It would be a great if it was official. Can you share the link? Not that I don't believe you, but I want to be sure that this is not just gossip from the community.


If I was an illiterate, ignorant thug, If I saw someone writing down strange signs on the ground, exactly because I don't know what's going on and don't know what that "strange light" is, I'd think twice before stepping on it. Fear of the unknown is natural, it's the basic reaction of every life form in the animal reign.
Walking straight on a "strange light" cast by someone you addressed to as "freak" some seconds before isn't believable at all and it's not a mistake a thug would do (Remember the "Sodd off you freak!" line?).
It would be normal if he rushed head down towards Geralt with ineffective or predictable slashes: that is a plausible mistake, not walking into something menacing and unknown.


At that distance even my blind grandmother would see that coming.


I don't want enemies not making mistakes, I want them to do plausible mistakes, just as I said before.


The success ratio of that maneuver in the demos has been ridiculously high, its animation is clunky and unpolished and it has proven to be the evading move-to-go for practically every attack. What I want to say is that, in order to allow variation, strategic depth and the use of side pirouettes, there should be some limitations on backdash properties. In fact, who would care to perform side pirouettes or other dodges if the backdash itself will do the trick 100% of the time?

Sorry but I can't offer you a link, i've seen way too many articles and interviews, pretty much all of them actually. The easy thing is well known in the forums already, and has been said many times by different CDPR people, other users can confirm this. The comment about advanced new AI features for enemies not being implemented in the E3 build yet was made only once as far as I know, in a video interview with Damien Monnier, E3 or any other event after that. I could be remembering wrong, but thats where I think I heard it, I think he got excited telling the interviewer the interesting things enemies would be able to do in TW3 and then added that it wasnt implemented on the demo yet but it was coming.

The interpretation of how a bandit thinks can go several ways actually, that one you make is valid, but to me one of those thugs that literally doesnt give a F and tries to push his way around whatever comes at him is also plausible and believable. If we were dealing with your type A of Thugs, I think they woudnt even fight Geralt in the first place. For example to me it'd be much more important that they get seriously scared when Geralt uses Igni the first time, rather than the obscure Yrden. But anyway, point is, I think its not a straight up error that some dudes wouldnt care about Yrden and its symbols, I can totally believe and understand bandits what would still go up front, its perfectly fitting. Now if ALL of them are like that, and all human soldiers even, that'd break immersion definitely.

Hey with grass and different bumps/levels in terrain and distractions of combat and watching Geralt, I could see how one of those guys might miss the symbols, or some of them in order to get its a circle, especially the ones closer to them, but thats just my perspective :p

Yeah I get what you mean with the backdash, but to me in some examples Geralt was very close to being hit, to the point the player likely was unsure if it would avoid damage or not. The animation is indeed clunky and unpolished, I think most people can agree.
I'm just not seeing it too OP vs the other moves yet, we have limited footage unfortunately, and in easy. One thing that definitely makes it "better" than other dodge moves and the go-to panic maneuver, is the simple fact that it takes you backwards, and not sideways or forward, that alone, because of what direction it is, aside from the animation or speed, is naturally going to make it more "safe". However, Im just neutral on this, I think the footage is too little and not representative of common combat, in some places it looks too good, in others its almost not enough, so, I dont know.
 
The AI looks better to me, and we have to remember this is the devs playing on easy. You can see rush attacks from the werewolf and griffin, the water hags using the swamp to their advantage and using a weapon. The humans now approach carefully and try to counter Geralt. We can't assume too much until we see more gameplay, but it looks promising so far.
 
I remember hearing or reading that the main difference in difficulty level will be in enemy quantity, not in HP or in AI. But, like anything that's said without backing up, take it with a grain of salt.
 
I remember hearing or reading that the main difference in difficulty level will be in enemy quantity, not in HP or in AI. But, like anything that's said without backing up, take it with a grain of salt.

I can confirm it, even if I don't have the link to the interview, I remember very well that they said that the difference will by made by enemies' number at higher difficulties.
I have watched the polish gameplay video right now and I don't see any difference in foes' behavior, especially concerning the thugs patterns.
The main difference was that the enemies come suddenly from blind spots and from unexpected directions and they are a bit more aggressive (only the beasts/monsters, not the humans). Other than that, the A.I. looks still the same, the thug who reached Gerald's side stood still without taking advantage of his position.

Talking about the elusive movements, the player strafed more to the sides than backwards, but no pirouettes to be seen. Probably the developers consider the spinning attacks as pirouettes. We'll see how next build will evolve.
 
Let's hope they release some dev diary's soon along with the specs. And the first dev diary should ether be about the world or the combat imo. But for me if the combat feels responsive and powerfull i'm ok.

Off topic... a bit. Just found this from the witcher tv series (found it on YT today and when I saw this, I just had to post it.)
View attachment 9043
 

Attachments

  • witchersagainstcrossbows.jpg
    witchersagainstcrossbows.jpg
    108 KB · Views: 46
Don't know if anyone has mentioned this: In this game wouldn't it make more sense to limit Geralt to one sword on his back, and the other left on the horse? As I recall it's pretty hard to do a roll or other fancy sword moves with another sword on you back. Besides, in the novels he never carried two swords, the silver one was left on the horse.

There should be at least some movement penalty on harder difficulty. If you're required to meditate for potions before a fight in preparation, shouldn't you also need to prepare your equipment?
 
Don't know if anyone has mentioned this: In this game wouldn't it make more sense to limit Geralt to one sword on his back, and the other left on the horse? As I recall it's pretty hard to do a roll or other fancy sword moves with another sword on you back. Besides, in the novels he never carried two swords, the silver one was left on the horse.

But this wouldn't work. How about when he enters a dungeon his horse can't enter? Or swim to an underwater cave? Games have to compromise on lore/'realism' sometimes to put the 'play' in gameplay. Why limit the player so much, as well as limit the artists/programmers/designers on what environments can be crafted?
 
But this wouldn't work. How about when he enters a dungeon his horse can't enter? Or swim to an underwater cave? Games have to compromise on lore/'realism' sometimes to put the 'play' in gameplay. Why limit the player so much, as well as limit the artists/programmers/designers on what environments can be crafted?

That's why I compared it with potion preparation. In W2 you were "supposed" to sit outside of that cave or monster area and take the potions then proceed. You would do the same with the swords. He could still carry two, it would just limit his mobility.
 
That's why I compared it with potion preparation. In W2 you were "supposed" to sit outside of that cave or monster area and take the potions then proceed. You would do the same with the swords. He could still carry two, it would just limit his mobility.

But that suggests the player knows exactly what is in store for him/her before they enter somewhere the horse cannot. Like in Skellige, you may find yourself swimming a long way underwater before you reach large subterranean areas, and then go on to find what is needed. There may be entire portions of land that cannot be reached via horse (such as climbing). What about Geralt's inventory and carrying weapons? What about locations that require both? (which is why it fails when comparing them to potions) It's not as simple as you think.
 
Last edited:
But that suggests the player knows exactly what is in store for him before he enters somewhere his horse cannot. There may be entire portions of land that cannot be reached via horse (such as climbing). It's not as simple as you think.
Exactly. Witcher series are as close and as realistic to the actual lore as possible, but don't forget that it's also a video game (no matter how amazing it will be), and fun factor should always stay in the first place. I play such games for entertainament, realism is goes after that.
 
Top Bottom