Insanity Mode wipes saves being considered - PLEASE DO THIS

[thislsmadness]

I must admit to being a little disappointed. Good to see insane mode is still there, but I'd have definitely liked an option to play on the hardest difficulty without permadeath.

Ah well, hopefully there'll be a cheat, or someone will come up with a mod that gives you the same difficulty without the permadeath.

Yeah, Im hoping Hard is still the same difficulty just without the pressure of permadeath. Isnt that pretty much how it worked out in Witcher 2?

 

[dragonbird]

Well, the article said that Dark (Insane) was harder than Hard, so if it's accurate...

Sad.

 

[JackieEstacado]

Honestly, I think that permadeath in an open world game is just too much. I mean, we already know that if we fail a quest, we can't repeat it at any difficulty, be it easy or dark. If the checkpoints are far from each other, than I think that it will be enough.
What is important to me is that monsters and enemies in dark mode are BLOODY, INSANELY DIFFICULT to kill, not because they have more HP or shield, but because they are far more dangerous. This is what makes the highest difficulty funny and rewarding.

I mean, everyone says that Dark Souls is difficult, but that is an artificial way of creating hardships in a game, because going through a stage for the 200th time, killing the same baddies that you have already slaughtered 199 times blindfolded, dying in a boss fight and being forced to start everything from the beginning is not funny. At all.
You have already shown your capability of defeating those enemies, so there's no point in getting back to the beginning of the world's creation.
I have tried to turn my console off every time I was going to die and guess what? The game turned out to be an average difficulty action rpg, because the only problem were the nonexistent checkpoints.
Try to play Vanquish at Legendary mode and you will see what real difficulty is. Checkpoints are the same of Normal mode, it's just the enemies that turn out to be incredibly tough. Vanquish also has one of the best A.I.s of the last gen, sharing this feature with Max Payne 3. Anyway, I am digressing.

Getting back to the topic, I hope that the real difficulty of the game will be A.I. wise.

 

[Garrison72]

That's disappointing if the hardest difficulty is permadeath. I've beat all Witcher games so far on their hardest mode and it looks like I may not get to do that in TW3. Seems it'd be easy enough to implement both, like they did in TW2. I agree with the above poster that permadeath in such a large, open game is a little crazy. I can't see it being any fun.

 

[thislsmadness]

Well, the article said that Dark (Insane) was harder than Hard, so if it's accurate...

Sad.

I dont think they say anything about hard mode, just comparisons of Dark to Normal. So Im still hopeful!

 

[Scholdarr.452]

If there is permadeath the game has to be 100% bug free. If not every bug could lead to Geralt's death, no matter how good or hardcore one is.


If you want to implement permadeath make it at least optional for every diffuculty mode.

 

[TouPoutsou]

I am dissapointed as well. I mean why fix something that is not broken. TW2 system was just perfect. Perna death for the ones who want it, and an even harder more with extra items, to make the experience even more rewarding.

JackieEstacado: In Dark Souls, and especially Dark Souls 2, the difficulty of the FIGHTS, forget the backtracking, in max difficulty(NG+7), is much much higher than TW2 on dark mode.

 

[shawn_kh]

I always play on dark mode and I have not had any gratification to play on Insane difficulty, because it gives you the satisfaction and rewards you with especial armors.
That being said my opinion may be biased, but I don't think having perma-death is practical in a game that is 100+ hours long. This is especially the case since enemies do not scale in the Witcher 3, so walk the wrong way for 5 minutes and you're dead.
I also bet not all but a good chunk of the players played the game on insane, but they quit the game when they knew they were going to die. What's the point if you are going to cheat ?!?!?

 

[Yasakani]

I think the best way to go about this is implementing the Permadeath as a feature for each of the difficulty levels. It's just a toggle and it allows the option of playing Permadeath on easy or hard level. If anything, the implementation should be easier since it doesn't depend on difficulty level.

Personally I would either play normal/hard first with Permadeath than doing this hardest difficulty with Permadeath.

 

[TheMorbidAtheist]

OP's question has been answered.

http://www.vg247.com/2015/02/05/dark-difficulty-and-permadeath-how-hard-is-the-witcher-3/

Permadeath is in Dark Mode. Possible to die five minutes before the ending and rage. Normal mode difficulty is between Skyrim's hardest and Dark Souls' hardest. Developers aimed at Normal being "easy to learn but hard to master".

YES!
So it has been confirmed.

Will start the game on Dark Mode on the first run.

 

[Vigilance.492]

Personally I don't mind having permadeath there as an option on a difficulty mode, it's a crazy achievement kind of thing, and especially if you have enough game knowledge and skill to complete a 30-50 hour RPG without dying then kudos to you.

However what is kind of silly is if Dark mode is harder than hard AND has permadeath. What if someone finds Hard mode still not quite enough of a challenge and Dark would be perfect, but they don't bother with it because it has the permadeath attached to it?

I think the best way to go about this is implementing the Permadeath as a feature for each of the difficulty levels. It's just a toggle and it allows the option of playing Permadeath on easy or hard level. If anything, the implementation should be easier since it doesn't depend on difficulty level.

This is precisely what I was thinking... Depending on technology it could be that they don't even have to make it a select-able option, just have the game remember at any point during a playthrough that you died (Even if you reload an earlier save it still remembers) and then if you reach the credits in Dark/Hard with no recorded death you get the achievement. Or as you said, have the option (I don't mind if they keep it only as an option for Dark Mode), but it would be nice to know there's still a higher difficulty that doesn't necessarily have to force you into permadeath.

I'd be really interested to try the permadeath mode, much like I still intend to do it for TW2, it would be especially intense considering the length and open world nature of the game (Like you could know where the recipes are for super strong potions/oils, and patterns for really powerful armor/weapons and rush to try and craft that stuff, maybe an interesting Risk vs Reward factor about it)... But it'd be nice for that to be in its own separate category somehow, so you can get a feel for the difficulty mode and THEN go for permadeath when you're ready.

 

[Asmodean778]

I'm not really into the whole permadeath 'thing', myself. I prefer organic difficulty, done well. Rather than a selection slider, that will increase damage taken, and give enemies more hp etc. Really not a fan of that type of 'difficulty'. Good systems, and A.I. can create a lot better difficulty 'settings' than any sliders can imo.

But onto the point: I've never really understood with these permadeath modes, what's stopping the player from just pausing the game if he's just about to die, then loading it lol. Instead of waiting to get hit that last time, or whatnot.

 

[Vigilance.492]

But onto the point: I've never really understood with these permadeath modes, what's stopping the player from just pausing the game if he's just about to die, then loading it lol. Instead of waiting to get hit that last time, or whatnot.

Well most likely you can't save/load during combat, or at least you'd assume the developers would implement that in their permadeath mode.

And yes, there's generally ways you can cheat, like backing up your saves, or in TW2 you could just ALT+F4 is you were about to die. Still, I don't see what the point of even doing the permadeath mode would be if you're just going to cheat like that. Personally if I cheated the permadeath mode just to get the achievement, then I would hate myself for doing that and not actually feel like I earned/deserved it. It's different for everybody, some people don't care, but I can't understand why you'd want to cheat when really that defeats the entire purpose of the challenge behind the permadeath mode.

I agree with you initial comment though, about "organic difficulty", that's definitely preferable. However I still felt like TW2 did difficulty pretty well. Higher difficulties didn't turn enemies into "sponges" with obscene amounts of HP but everything hit much harder, which meant you had to be a lot more precise, tactical, and making sure you were well prepared before entering any possible combat scenario was a big bonus. I guess people who thought the combat system was clunky probably hated the higher difficulties because it meant they needed to be more precise when they felt the system was anything but that, however as someone who quite enjoys TW2's combat, I loved playing on Hard/Dark.

 

[TheMorbidAtheist]

But onto the point: I've never really understood with these permadeath modes, what's stopping the player from just pausing the game if he's just about to die, then loading it lol. Instead of waiting to get hit that last time, or whatnot.

Because we don't have free will so there is no guarantee that people will do it everytime. It's impractical. People WILL take corners when the programing is overcome, when they find it more convenient.

Permadeath is a permanent deterrent against that practice. We won't release a criminal from prison simply because the prisoner promises on his life that he won't do bad things anymore.

Plus, the payoff wouldn't be as rewarding if people did that.

Beating the Witcher 2 on insane was an amazing experience.

 

[CostinRaz]

As someone who has finished The Witcher 2 on Insane multiple times I believe CDPR shouldn't bother doing this. It's just an artificial way to make it rewarding. It would be far better if CDPR designed the gameplay around being very rewarding without such cheap things.

I'll give the best example: Dark Souls. No difficulty settings, no permadeath or anything like that but it felt quite amazing to finish that game, far more so then TW2 on Insane and yes I died multiple times in that game.

I see people talking about limiting saves or something like that: A checkpoint system has no place in a story focused games. Checkpoints need to die in a fire.

If someone wants to impose on themselves a no death run then go for it.

Permadeath is a permanent deterrent against that practice.

How is it? I'm sorry but I fail to see why I shouldn't reload when playing TW2 on Insanity if I am about to die. There's a LOT of points in the game where you can get insta-gibbed, The crossbow section in the mist is REALLY annoying.

Beating the Witcher 2 on insane was an amazing experience.

I will admit that after a dozen failed playthroughs getting that one done felt really REALLY good, but after that it just losses it's charm and you get bored of it. It's just artificial.

Well most likely you can't save/load during combat, or at least you'd assume the developers would implement that in their permadeath mode.

Then exit to menu and reload from there and if that doesn't work then alt-tab and cut off the process. Trust me I've seen all of this done.

The only system that works is the one in XCOM, but XCOM is not build upon you losing the ENTIRE game if you lose one battle. The entire idea of Ironman mode is that you have make due despite your decisions wherewas in TW2 one single decision can lose you dozens of hours. Really annoying. Sure you CAN lose in XCOM if you lose too many soldiers and battles but that's another matter.

 

[TheMorbidAtheist]

How is it? I'm sorry but I fail to see why I shouldn't reload when playing TW2 on Insanity if I am about to die. There's a LOT of points in the game where you can get insta-gibbed, The crossbow section in the mist is REALLY annoying. Then exit to menu and reload from there and if that doesn't work then alt-tab and cut off the process. Trust me I've seen all of this done.

Disable loading during [most?] engagements. The F9 option will be disabled and even if you go the menu by clicking escape the saving/loading option will be disabled until you finish the engagement or run away to a nearby safe distance where the foes stop chasing you.

The only system that works is the one in XCOM, but XCOM is not build upon you losing the ENTIRE game if you lose one battle. The entire idea of Ironman mode is that you have make due despite your decisions wherewas in TW2 one single decision can lose you dozens of hours. Really annoying. Sure you CAN lose in XCOM if you lose too many soldiers and battles but that's another matter.

I did beat Xcom on the Ironman impossible difficulty - without losing a single soldier or a single battle.

Oh, and I am still trying to Beat Arkham Origin on the permadeath mode. It's intense. My palms get sweaty every engagement I am in and my heart is racing. I just love experiencing these adrenaline filled moments.

I still want to beat Dead Space 3 on the permadeath mode but the cheap deaths during falling/flying missions kind of ruin that but I welcome my permadeath modes otherwise. It makes me relate to the character I am playing more. It skyrockets my immersion. Still working on Thief's ironman difficulty too.

Only a handful of games implement the option. There just aren't enough sadomasochists out there.

 

[CostinRaz]

Disable loading during [most?] engagements. The F9 option will be disabled and even if you go the menu by clicking escape the saving/loading option will be disabled until you finish the engagement or run away to a nearby safe distance where the foes stop chasing you.

Then everytime I get agroo I can't load? Saving was already disabled in TW2 during combat by the way. It's just an annoyance. It was annoying in TW2 and it would be annoying here as well, especially if they removed loading as well.

It still wouldn't prevent me from going to the main and loading a save or quitting the game and reloading. It would be far better if CDPR instead of focusing on arbitrary difficulty modes that they put in all their effort towards making memorable fights.

 

[TheMorbidAtheist]

Then everytime I get agroo I can't load?

Yes. In real life, when you are in the Alaskan wilderness chased by wolves, you don't get to rescind your decision to be in the wilderness and travel to your past self when you are sipping on your tea inside your warm Anchorage apartment.

I am obviously being cute here. But like I said, I just love the immersion that comes with permadeath modes. It combines real life mode, i.e. death, with a fantasy world. It's like living the fantasy. But with living, comes the dying, for all intents and purposes.

Saving was already disabled in TW2 during combat by the way. It's just an annoyance. It was annoying in TW2 and it would be annoying here as well, especially if they removed loading as well.

I know about the saving thing. I just threw that it to make a more encompassing argument. In real life, when you get attacked by a pack of wolves you don't get to pause and ask for some breathing room, you either fight or flee.

It still wouldn't prevent me from going to the main and loading a save or quitting the game and reloading. It would be far better if CDPR instead of focusing on arbitrary difficulty modes that they put in all their effort towards making memorable fights.

Well, yest it would. The mode I proposed would make you finish the engagement you are in OR make you run away and replenish your stats before you could do anything else. That way, every engagement WOULD be interesting and memorable by default. Every engagement would involve a risk assessment. I still remember some of the fights I was in when I played the Insane mode.

 

[CostinRaz]

Or I could just run away. I could do that in TW2 and I sure as shit will in TW3. I'm fairly certainy

I am obviously being cute here. But like I said, I just love the immersion that comes with permadeath modes. It combines real life mode, i.e. death, with a fantasy world. It's like living the fantasy. But with living, comes the dying, for all intents and purposes.

Games can't simulate real life combat very well for a large number of reasons.

 

[TheMorbidAtheist]

Or I could just run away. I could do that in TW2 and I sure as shit will in TW3. I'm fairly certainy

Well, there you go. And then you would prepare and come back. I am sure you and I did that in Dark Souls many times, except the stakes would be higher here.

Games can't simulate real life combat very well for a large number of reasons.

Well, I know they can't get 100% on a 100% scale, so am not going to argue absolutes here. But if I can get 70% immersion over 50% immersion then I would definitely for the 70%.

But they CAN come close to making your heart race and your palms sweat - very similar to when you are riding a rollecoaster.