Activated Skills Tree

[Aes Sídhe]

Activated Skills Tree

This thread is for discussing The Skills System as information becomes available. I'll repost the original Info from Shavod, and my own impression of what it implies (note I've edited my original post a little because I think my using the word "bar" was wrong and could add confusion. Please discuss your thoughts of upsides, downsides, and any relevant comparisons.

- skill tree is really massive. There are 5 trees (according to witchersite there was 4, so I'm not sure who is closer to the truth), each has 5 tiers and each tier contains 5 skills. Every skill has 3 or 4 levels to unlock. Even though later Geralt will gain more skill points per level it's still will be impossible to unlock all of it

- after unlocking the skill it needs to be activated. You do that by putting it into separate tree, which contains a limited number of slots (it will increase with character's progress). Activated skills affects Geralt's fighting style. Activating set of skills from the same category will increase it's effects. It adds another layer to preparations and tactical planning, as you have to choose an appropriate set of active skills depending on what kind of opponent you going to face (for example, if you going to fight with heavily armored knights, you can activate Igni upgrade that allows you to melt armors)

- there are four slots for mutagens, which also affects your abilities

- there is one thing I'm not sure about. In the Onet article there is a sentence: "For example Igni sign has four levels, each with unique perks, one of them is armor melting". It may be my misinterpretation, but I think it means that each skill level is like a different skill and you can switch between all unlocked levels of a skill for other bonuses, like one level of Igni allows you to melt armor, but another gives it a wider range and so on. Again, that's just my interpretation of this one line of this one article, so don't quote me about it

The "Activated Skills Tree" thing, lets look a bit closer at that:

Heres how I am reading this: this is an alternative / replacement / adaptation of the fast / strong / group stances in TW1, something we didn't have in TW2, if we view a skill tree branch something like a stance, then concentrate related skills in the "Active Skills Tree" we will be better at that kind of fighting style - we'll be more in that stance - than if we have a more mixed Active Skill Tree. If I'm visualising it correctly to me this is an interesting, conceptually sound, and new character skill method. Depending on how deeply this is implemented with monsters & the lore Geralt determines about them this may actually make cookie-cutter & one-build-suits-all-combats setups more a hindrance than a help.

Just like Geralt mentally & physically favouring a certain stance, a certain fighting style for a particular battle, instead of being able to mix every fighting style concurrently with no adverse effect on any of those differing stances moves. Actually sounds totally appropriate to me. We could hope theres also a way to maintain and swap between previously constructed skill trees (though outside of combat, or at least with ~30 secs of peace for mental refocussing).

Stances & fighting styles are I believe part of established Wicther lore, also a part of the games series history, and even the actual history of sword-fighting & combat. We have experts in medieval sword fighting on the forum, hopefully they'll chime in on this subject, but often in a fantasy book the protagonist will fight in a certain style, be unable to best his opponent with that style, and chance a risky move from another style to gain advantage. I know from martial arts that some moves central to a particular form can afford swapping to another form, I really see this system as something akin to that ability to vary your style within a fight.

Note I also don't think that what you put in the Activated Skills Tree will somehow become a set of skills you can use from the number keys for instance, at least that is not discernible from what we know, hence my removal of the word "bar" from my original post.

**********************************************************​

Activated skills determine tactics. You choose (activate) some of them and you have resources to manage (stamina and adrenaline), so behaviour in combat depends on skill choices. In other words, to use your build properly, you cast signs, parry, dodge and hit with you sword more or less frequently. Some skills grant additional signs modes or special blows.

There are 3 types of armor elements: light, medium and heavy. Protection they grant is less important than synergy with combat tactics they are designed for. For example heavy armor favors agressive swordfighting. But you can mix armor elements to balance bonuses they offer.

If you like to tweak and customize, you'll find it attractive, I think.

Here's the way the skill development works.

There are 4 groups of skills. Swordsmanship, Alchemy, Signs and Miscellaneous. The fifth group some folks were talking about is Mutagens.

As you level up the character, you unlock various skills. You can then assign them to one of the slots. Assigning a skill to a slot makes it active - you can activate and deactivate skills at will making custom builds to suit your current needs best. There are up to 12 slots (+ 4 for mutagens) which are being unlocked as you progress - mutagens modify skills making the skills stronger. To make mutagens even more effective, it's best to use the same type of mutagen and skills in one combination.

We've talked about it but ultimately there will be no presets.

 

[TheDeathRun]

Was it clarified whether the swapping/activation of skills could be done whenever and wherever (even during combat) or if it had to be done during meditation?

 

[wichat]

I like the TW1 system combat, I like how Geralt use a different style for differents types of enemies: strong, fast and group. Though I still missunderstaning the real difference between the 2 swords, silver and steel. This and the combination of oils force me to read all information abouts enemies, and makes be enjoying about this diversity of them.

If CDPR have made a mixture or hybrid of this system it could be more interesting to me.

 

[KA1N3R]

I was pretty concerned when all the previews mentioned 12 slots, but 30 are enough IMO

 

[Aes Sídhe]

Was it clarified whether the swapping/activation of skills could be done whenever and wherever (even during combat) or if it had to be done during meditation?

No clarity on that yet, tbh although I made a suggestion for it, it's not a deal breaker for me, unless & until we see it in action and swapping / reassigning either in or out of combat becomes a chore.

But I always think it adds to tactical gameplay if, by gainng myself 30 secs of peace in a combat, I can change my fighting style or tactics.

 

[BroccoliSouP]

I dislike this in rpg but it all depends on execution. If they did it correctly it will be fun to try things. Other way there will be just few broken combinations and skill trees will suck.

 

[thislsmadness]

I just hope that there is a way to set up a bunch of "loadouts" to make managing that many skills intuitive.

 

[TheDeathRun]

No clarity on that yet, tbh although I made a suggestion for it, it's not a deal breaker for me, unless & until we see it in action and swapping / reassigning either in or out of combat becomes a chore.

But I always think it adds to tactical gameplay if, by gainng myself 30 secs of peace in a combat, I can change my fighting style or tactics.

Hm alright thanks. Unless there's some new information released I don't think we can say too much yet. There are just too many things we don't know and too many unanswered questions; e.g. "activating set of skills from the same category will increase it"s effects" - what does a category encompass? Do all Igni effects constitute a category? Or maybe it's all skills that incur damage-over-time on opponents? Possibly skills that ramp up health regeneration on Geralt?

Also there's the matter of when we can switch skills. If it's out of combat only, I think it adds a new layer of strategy, because you'll be forced to think very carefully while picking the skills with which you'll face a werewolf, leshen, griffin, etc. since you can't swap 'em mid-fight. On the other hand, at non-boss times you'll then be incentivized to find some generic combination of skills in order to face the random encounters you'll have on the road (bandits, wyverns, harpies, etc.). Doesn't sound particularly tactical in the latter scenario. Conversely if you can swap skills during combat, there will be no layer of strategy in the form of pre-preparation before facing bosses, but it would suit random encounters somewhat better.

But all this is just speculation at the moment because we don't have enough information. The only things we know are that the maximum number of slots is 30, there are no load-outs/skill-sets between which we can swap (if there were the maximum slots thing would make no sense). We have no idea when skills can be activated/swapped, what categories of skills there are (aside from all of them being passive), and we don't even know how skills with different levels will work (sure, Igni will have "melt armor" and "spray wide" but skills clearly won't just include signs). As of now, too little information is present to make any attempt at an informed guess of how well the system will play, so I'll reserve those for later.

Maybe a video focusing on combat or character development (or both, since they're more or less related) will appear as we near the game's release. TW2 had one and it was really informative, so here's hoping.

(Personally though, I was quite pleased to hear of this system. It's a change from the otherwise standard skill tree we've come to expect in games like this, and I love that CDPR isn't just sticking entirely to what worked before, but experimenting beyond that to bring us an even better game. )

 

[Yellowcardus]

This is just my interpretation but i thought it's more like modifiers/mutators (pun intended) where Geralt has a huge set of skills but is incapable of using all of them at once so he has to pick before hand what to use.

HOWEVER if changing the active skills is only allowed outside of combat than i think that's a mistake.

I'm a huge fan of brewing and imbibing potions before the fight and - belive it or not - i had no idea you could drink a potion mid combat in the original Witcher until i read it on the forums during my second playthrough. Possibly because the prologue only asks you to drink potions outside of combat. ( I think it even emphazises this with both Leo and Vesemir asking you if you drank your potions).

But i think having no way of changing your active skills is different. Unless they are based around drinking a potion (cannot be activated otherwise) or equiping an item. Geralt (and thus the player) should be able to shuffle them around even in the heat of combat.

You could argue that this makes it less tactical or even defeats the purpouse of the feature. But for me it beats runnig away from a fight and hiding behind a rock just to enter the same menu you could have entered midfight.

 

[Shavod]

Again, that's just my interpretation of this one line of this one article, so don't quote me about it

I told you something...

View attachment 10587

Spoiler

Just kidding.

 

[Aes Sídhe]

I told you something...

I thought that was just for the benefit of your professional reporting followers...

As should be obvious, I'm completely unprofessional.


I think its way too early to say whether hot-swapping in combat would be a bonus to tactical gameplay or not, thats the kind of conclusion that requires full knowledge of all factors involved in a combat. The REDs will know, the playtesters will be reporting on it, we will have to wait. Like I said, I can go either way on this one, with the latest info if anything we could say we have further proof the game will have an involving combat system, deliberately, so I'm not jumping to any conclusions other than the REDs are looking to make something suitable for the series, and not some wild departure to appease the masses like some people have feared.

 

[Xvenger]

from what it feels and sounds like to me, the activated skills system were meant to complement with other skills that you would be doing. If CDPR were serious in what they claim that each skill will have its own personal visual change/effect and no passive skills, then we're in for quite some fun experimentations which I believe any real rpg fan should be hype about it. IF done right, this should mean that the gameplay aspect of the combat system just got a lot more depth than just swinging your sword and timing your dodges.

This subject was the one thing I was concerned about the W3 coming in the most. If it was virtually the same concept of the somewhat simple & linear path of the leveling system in W2, then I feared it would take a knock off the gameplay elements of an rpg that many people in this generation of gaming are expecting in such a vast world. I believe it worked alright for the W2 since there's technically only around 35 hours worth of gameplay for it. But now if we copy paste the same thing on a 100+ hour game like W3, well then I hope you get a lot fine ass epic battles cuz I get the feeling that would get old fast.

Reactions for this would likely vary since I don't see them being able to implement a system like this without it looking really complex for any newbies at first glance and it just may overwhelm some people, but I think for it to be truly effective, it cannot and should not be simplified.
The potential is here to make the game have a high replay value for combat junkies. It is what's gonna determine whether I want to just run past and skip the wolves in the corner since killing them would feel like a chore OR make me enjoy hours and hours of customizing my activated skills slots (like in Final Fantasy Tactics) testing out hundreds of ways on how to deal with them. I really hope for all our sakes it's the latter.

 

[wichat]

from what it feels and sounds like to me, the activated skills system were meant to complement with other skills that you would be doing. If CDPR were serious in what they claim that each skill will have its own personal visual change/effect and no passive skills, then we're in for quite some fun experimentations which I believe any real rpg fan should be hype about it. IF done right, this should mean that the gameplay aspect of the combat system just got a lot more depth than just swinging your sword and timing your dodges.

.

Don't awaken in me false hopes so cruelly, please!!

I want to remain the more skeptical as possible but reading all the posts and interviews I'm becoming weaker and weaker in front the temptation...

 

[Xvenger]

Don't awaken in me false hopes so cruelly, please!!

I want to remain the more skeptical as possible but reading all the posts and interviews I'm becoming weaker and weaker in front the temptation...

haha im not. It takes quite a lot of creativity and though for it to be successful and like I said it could easily back fire into this one convoluted mess.

I have a theory that the reason that the ppl at the hands on press event couldn't comment too much into the leveling system was a.) they only leveled a few times within the 4 hours and didn't get a proper feel for it and, b.) the interface is not an easy thing to decipher as some ppl even hinted this.
I also get the feeling a lot of these skills are not gonna be so "flashy" to see for obvious reasons that you're not a mage spamming all these bright colors.

How that for deflating the hype?:rly?:

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I don't like that new system at all.

Micromanagement is good for tactial party RPGs imo. But for a solo action RPG like W3 it just sounds over-complicated and a real pain in the ass in the long run, sorry. It may sound good on paper to have "another tactial layer" but in practice you have to adjust your skills every now and then. Many people - like me - will just be too lazy for that because it's imo not an interesting or fun activity to change skills all the time before fights in such a game and so we'll probably end up with a "bad build" most of the time.

Another problem is that it imo adds more "gamey" stuff to the game, taking away from the immersion and story-focus by kind of forcing the player to go to the menu and adjust Geralt'sskills every now and then. But in a game like W3 the less gamey stuff the better. They should try to avoid gameplay and story interruptions as much as possible.

I honestly don't know why they cut VATS but let stuff like that in. VATS would have added to the tactical depth or the combat depth of the game. This weird "you get skills but you can't use them all at the same time" on the other hand doesn't really add anything than just micromanagement. Simply put, it adds "work" without proper compensation... :/

 

[TouPoutsou]

I really cannot understand what this supposed to mean. Maybe it is not clear enough, maybe my english is not up to par, or maybe i'm just stupid :hmmm:

 

[Agent_Bleu]

--- deleted post ---

I'm going to sit here patiently and see what moderators are going to do about this post of yours, and its lovely tone and really edifying language. And then I'm going to draw some conclusions. Right, @gregski?

Activated skills determine tactics. You choose (activate) some of them and you have resources to manage (stamina and adrenaline), so behaviour in combat depends on skill choices. In other words, to use your build properly, you cast signs, parry, dodge and hit with you sword more or less frequently. Some skills grant additional signs modes or special blows.

There are 3 types of armor elements: light, medium and heavy. Protection they grant is less important than synergy with combat tactics they are designed for. For example heavy armor favors agressive swordfighting. But you can mix armor elements to balance bonuses they offer.

If you like to twieak and customize, you'll find it attractive, I think.

Thanks!

I am really excited about the new system.
In principle it sounds wonderful, second to none, well maybe except for a revamping of character progression, but still, in its RPG orthodoxy, the system strikes me as a definite improvement over TW2's.

Good job. Keep it up!

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Can the player create hotkeyed skill setups? Constantly activating and deactivating stuff individually would seem kind of... a hassle.

If not yet, that should definitely be put in.

 

[dragonbird]

One post has been deleted, please keep it polite.

 

[EliHarel]

I'm still not capable of visualizing anything, but it sounds complex, so that's cool. TW1 and TW2 were weak in the leveling-up and character build department and I'm glad to hear TW3 is trying to be much more in-depth about the mechanics and options you have.