Over-complexity of TW3

[TouPoutsou]

Over-complexity of TW3

Reading info about the game, it just strikes me at how ambitius this game really is. It seems like it aims on picking all elements of different RPGs, combining them and pushing them to the extreme.

1) Graphics: This game is set out to have the best visuals of any open world RPG so far.

2)Story Driven Focus, dialogues and meaningfull choices: This so far has been the strongest element of the witcher games, and IMO the previous titles did this better than any other game. Especially in TW2 where according to your choise half the game would be different. However this time, this system is supposed to work in an open world enviroment.

3)Sandbox: Massive Open world X x times bigger than Skyrim with non linear gameplay.

4)Action Combat: With tens of new attack animations CDpr seem to be aiming to push the complexity of the action combat of the game to Souls series levels.

5)Leveling and build design: We have the new big skill tree, and the whole thing(which i do not completely understand) with rearranging our activated skills according to each fight, which moves us to:

6)Tactical Combat: Every fight needs to be approached differently and planned ahead. Both in action elements, and in how we are going to arrange our skills.

So all in all the games seems to take aspects of story driven RPGs, sandbox RPGs, action/dungeon crawler RPGs, and strategic/tactical RPGs, picking from the best games of each genre, combine them all together, and making it work. You can't get any more ambitious than this. The real quetion is if all these elements will work together, and if it is possible for the game to be relateively bug free. For me there is no middle ground here. This game will either be the best RPG of all time-all things considered, or a failed experiment. While i am abit concerned, i really beleive it will be the best game, since i really have faith in CDpr. Do you have any opinion on the matter? Are you a fan of this over complexity? DO you think it will work?

 

[JackalJ]

1) CDPR and the Red engine are starting to get known for great visuals, and I doubt they will disappoint us in TW3 or in any future games they will release. And great graphics on the pc platform these days is not that common any more. Most are just ports, ports which look not that much better on pc while the pc can handle it. CDPR are one of the few developers to actually push most systems out there.

2) Like you said the Witcher games were always heavy story driven, so no surprises here.

3) Yes, you could argue that Sandbox is a bad move, especially since CPDR never really did a open world like this. But sometime got to be the first time. And a bug free open world game at launch is something I have yet to see, so I wouldn't really think bad of CDPR if there are bugs.

4, 6) Tactical combat is something the Witcher games always tried and did use, and by learning of the systems they have build over the last 2 games it's something they can do. I have no doubt they will give us some awesome combat, from what I've seen it's already there.

5) Well it's a RPG, so you kind of have to have leveling and the 'builds' you refer to are also part of the tactical combat part.

So yes they combine a lot of the systems from 'other' RPG's, but hopefully do a much better job of using them. If we look at Skyrim and DA:I we can see traces of all those aspects as well, only (I hope) CDPR will do a better job of combining, implementing and give some depth to those systems.
Am I worried for the game? I am, yes. But that's because we have yet to see most of the game's systems in depth and don't know that much about them. But if I'm to believe CDPR, what they tell us here on the forums and in interviews. Then they will give us one of the best games we have seen in a while for pc (and consoles). And hopefully give publishers and other developers some proof that it might pay off to hold off releasing a game and Polish it instead.

 

[wichat]

As you said, it sems like a crazy challenge.

But the greast inventions or ideas were made by people who thought that impossible is an opinion.

I'd feel sad for CDPR is they fail but never desappointing.
they dream, they dare... and hope they reach.

Yes, I believe that CDPR belongs to this group of people who likes to face the "impossible" challenge.

Why not? no statistics nor surveys reflect reality,

And someone must be the first to create something new

 

[TouPoutsou]

As you said, it sems like a crazy challenge.

But the greast inventions or ideas were made by people who thought that impossible is an opinion.

I'd feel sad for CDPR is they fail but never desappointing.
they dream, they dare... and hope they reach.

Yes, I believe that CDPR belongs to this group of people who likes to face the "impossible" challenge.

Why not? no statistics nor surveys reflect reality,

And someone must be the first to create something new

Beautifully put, i agree

Jackalj, Yeah i agree with your post. You can find traces of all these aspects in other games. However TW3 seems like it aims to invest alot in all aspects. EG. skyrim was doing the sandbox thing pretty good, but it was really lacking in the story/choices aspects, and in combat, both in action and tactical perspective. However it was always supposed to be a sandbox RPG, so it was sucessfull doing what it was supposed to. Same with DA:I, which (to me-totally personal opinion), seems to be doing the tactical combat well, but is really mediocre on other aspects. On the other hand TW3 seems to take most RPG subgenres, and wanting to compete with the best of them in all aspects. What can i say, i am equally excited and concerned at the same time. I wish for the best.

 

[EliHarel]

I have a confession: I never really understood what people mean by sandbox.

I just take that to mean "open-world", but people keep saying it in addition to open-world, so maybe I'm missing something.

But anyway, yeah. Other than MGS 5, I can't think of another game that's nearly as ambitious overall.

 

[TheDeathRun]

CDPR has always been ambitious, and I don't say that as a bad thing. It was apparent even in TW1 - the game was made by a small number of people (some of which had no prior experience with game development at all) and yet I personally felt that it had many things its peers didn't at the time, be these things experimental or not. TW2 was no different. It was made on an entirely new in-house engine, and in look and feel was completely different from TW1 (whether that's good or not isn't my point). Ambition was clear in that they didn't just experimentally use new game mechanics and systems (they hadn't made games with these before), they did their best to flesh them out as best they could. Therefore I really don't see how TW3 is any different. Once again, CDPR is aiming far higher than before and in today's gaming industry this is to be applauded. I can see why people might be concerned - this kind of ambition and goal always comes with inherent risks. But I'd rather they aim high than fall back solely on what they know and churn out TW2.5.

As for the combination of all these systems... well I can't say much. Nobody except CDPR and the playtesters know how well they mesh together. I think it'll be fine; none of these systems conflict with each other (except story and sandbox but that's been discussed to death so I won't repeat that here) so theoretically there's no real reason the probability of the whole thing being a mess would be high. Given CDPR's track record, and since there's been no major reshuffling of personnel, they'll more likely than not be smart about it and should know how best to pull this off.

However, I really have to disagree with this:

For me there is no middle ground here. This game will either be the best RPG of all time-all things considered, or a failed experiment.

Correct me if I'm interpreting this wrongly, but what you're saying seems to be that this game will either be a masterpiece or a mediocre flop that aimed too high? If that's the case then I must say you're setting yourself up for disappointment. The definition of masterpiece is highly subjective, so there is absolutely no way TW3 will satisfy every individual and you or I or the next gamer could be one of those unsatisfied with it. And that's perfectly fine. But to automatically consider the game a mediocre flop as a consequence... I think that's taking it a bit too far unless you truly truly think that to be the case after playing.

If you want to avoid disappointment, then don't expect the game to be the revolution of gaming. That doesn't mean be a cynical nitpicker who tears all the pre-release materials apart with self-regulated, only-negative feedback. We should all support CDPR, especially now when they're in crunch time and mashing bugs. Just keep your expectations realistic - for example I expect the game to be as good as TW2 (to me) was. That's all I expect, and that means I'll be happier with TW3.

 

[Ljesnjanin]

DO you think it will work?

I don't know, but I believe it will...

But if CDPR provide me epic conclusion to Geralt's story, interesting quests, well written characters, choices & consequences - I will be happy gamer...And since story telling is the strongest part of previous Witcher games, I am confident that WH will not disappoint me...

Visuals, animations, leveling, world size are not that important to me...if they turn out to be the best ever - great, if they don't - great again...

 

[moonknightgog]

I don't know, but I believe it will...

But if CDPR provide me epic conclusion to Geralt's story, interesting quests, well written characters, choices & consequences - I will be happy gamer...And since story telling is the strongest part of previous Witcher games, I am confident that WH will not disappoint me...

I disagree in this regard.
IMHO the strongest part in The Witcher was the quest design...and the C&C system.
The Witcher is an example of excellent quest design. The investigation in the Chapter 2 in The Witcher was a textbook example of quest design.

That is the most important part in an open world RPG, IMHO.

 

[TouPoutsou]

However, I really have to disagree with this:



Correct me if I'm interpreting this wrongly, but what you're saying seems to be that this game will either be a masterpiece or a mediocre flop that aimed too high? If that's the case then I must say you're setting yourself up for disappointment. The definition of masterpiece is highly subjective, so there is absolutely no way TW3 will satisfy every individual and you or I or the next gamer could be one of those unsatisfied with it. And that's perfectly fine. But to automatically consider the game a mediocre flop as a consequence... I think that's taking it a bit too far unless you truly truly think that to be the case after playing.

If you want to avoid disappointment, then don't expect the game to be the revolution of gaming. That doesn't mean be a cynical nitpicker who tears all the pre-release materials apart with self-regulated, only-negative feedback. We should all support CDPR, especially now when they're in crunch time and mashing bugs. Just keep your expectations realistic - for example I expect the game to be as good as TW2 (to me) was. That's all I expect, and that means I'll be happier with TW3.

Well, personally as a fanboy i will love the game no matter what. But generally speaking, for the general player base that's what i mean. The game WILL NOT be mediocre, i have no doubt about it. It will be at least "good". However since it over ambitius it can create the feeling that it aimed for the stars and did not deliver, as you said. That;s my main concern, and that's what i mean as "failed experiment". Previous Wticher games focused far more in story than anything else, and they did deliver. TW2 IS a masterpiece for me, but i DO want something more of TW3(yeah greed), since it does in fact promises to deliver more.

I should mention that i don't mean to be negative in any way in this thread. I admire CDpr for costantly aiming higher and evolving. You can see the drastical changes between TW1 and 2, and the third is going to be massively different as well. On the other hand i am very dissapointed with eg. From Software. Now with bloodborne they are releasing their 4rth game that essesntially in it's core is identical, spreading over 3 franchises(demon souls, dark souls, bloodborne).
.

 

[AvengerGrim]

I have a confession: I never really understood what people mean by sandbox.

I just take that to mean "open-world", but people keep saying it in addition to open-world, so maybe I'm missing something.

Me neither, The very idea of "open-world" as a genre implies freedom of action, going wherever you want and doing whatever you want (to some degree), which is more or less the definition of a "sandbox RPG".

As for OP, to be honest, the biggest challenge I see with The Witcher 3 is the idea of a truly story and dialogue focused open-world game and I really think CDPR can pull that off, I am sure of it, they have the talent for it!

 

[moonknightgog]

Me neither, The very idea of "open-world" as a genre implies freedom of action, going wherever you want and doing whatever you want (to some degree), which is more or less the definition of a "sandbox RPG".

As for OP, to be honest, the biggest challenge I see with The Witcher 3 is the idea of a truly story and dialogue focused open-world game and I really think CDPR can pull that off, I am sure of it, they have the talent for it!

The fact is...TW3 is not a sandbox.
Sandbox doesn't mean "open world". Sandbox is a superstructure in which you can modify the world as you like (Minecraft) or a game with a lot of tools and a big variety of approches that you can use to beat the game (Dishonored).

 

[blameless75]

For me there is no middle ground here.

Oh rly

 

[barzozwierz]

/sigh
I don't really care for open-worldness or the graphics, I'm able to enjoy text based games. For me 2, 5 and 6 are selling points of Witcher series, if those are not improved upon previous title, dumbed down in some way, or sacrifices were made to make this game more exploration-friendly, i'm not touching any game anymore unless it's proudly advertised as 'not open world'.
I've seen a video in which consequences of PC's actions were explained to affect groups/other areas, this concept seems brilliant (had a sort of 'finally! someone cares about creating software, not emulating movies' moment) in theory but I'm a skeptic waiting for the execution.

 

[ONLY_ONCE]

Yes, this will All work, and it's about time someone did it.
So give a Big thanks for CDPR Team doing it

 

[wichat]

3rd game, 3 years, all platform and 200 people doing all that?

So give a Big thanks for CDPR Team doingTRYING it

 

[ONLY_ONCE]

HaHa.. I never try anything, I just do it. There is no try, there is only do. If you will it, there is no dream dude.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

From a game design point of view I dont think what CDPR are trying to do is THAT hard or unreliable, so I think when it comes to the fun element, the game will be just fine, and probably excellent.

The more real problems to come out of this monster of a game are the bugs, performance and all that, and I think that there's no way around it, TW3 will be very very buggy and possible unstable in my opinion.

However bugs and stuff tend to break your experience mostly when you feel the game has no "argument" to be buggy, or when the bugs are just downright game breaking, I think neither will happen with TW3.

And if the game does end up very well polished and bug free, well that would be a great surprise, hope it becomes true.

 

[KingHochmeister]

CDPR are just really crazy talented developers.

Hell, if Witcher 3 lives up to the hype and it is a damn good story-driven "Multi-region" Open world RPG, their next goal will hopefully be making genuinely interesting custom-made main characters in Cyberpunk 2077, they are really crazy, and that is why we love them

But I have it in mind that Witcher 3 will disappoint in some way or another, it is a very ambitious project, but I really hope they will deliver.

 

[Nathonas]

First of all I disagree the game either has to be "the best RPG of all time" or a "failed experiment". There is plenty of room for a middle ground. Having said that, I think the game could very well be the best of this decade, and ONE OF the best RPGs of all time. As long as they get the core Witcher feel down, everything else is just extra icing on the cake.

Projekt Red's track record with the first 2 witcher games has shown excellent writing, and improvement of more technical aspects of games like graphics and combat (TW2 had FAR better combat than TW1 for example) . I don't think they're doing too much. I think they've matured and gotten enough experience to fix some of the shortcomings of the previous Witcher games.

I'm not expecting the best game of all time, but I am expecting another high quality RPG which will be even better than the previous Witcher titles.

 

[wichat]

I'd not say "better" but different. A matter of taste, I think...