I have no doubt CP2077 will be beautifully rendered, gameplay will be solid, and will have deep rpg mechanics. The ONLY thing I truly hope CDPR implements is co-op. I've played TTRPG's since I was ten(now 41) and never once did I play alone. I believe the true crux of creating a game based off of a TTRPG is to create or come close to the "lasting appeal" that TTRPG's have. Many of us are STILL playing TT games we started playing 30 years ago. I think this can be achieved via the obvious dlc, but also through implementing randomly generated "dungeons", areas, "quarantine zones(?)" that can be played with a crew (Bloodborne's Chalice Dungeons). Solely single player games have a rather short life expectancy. Adding co-op/multiplayer functionality extends this life expectancy considerably. Add randomly generated content to this and we come close to the lasting appeal that TTRPG's have.
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Don't forget this is sci-fi, the most memorable science fiction has always been the ones that use imagination to create a world that could happen. Asimov was a biochemist, Star Trek writers would talk to their physic nerd friends.
In a corporate run world, wouldn't a system where you level up with money make sense? Think about it, if you want to be a good-guy-crusader, you're not going to get ahead in the world. As an authority figure, if you take that bribe to look the other way, you can afford that gene therapy you always wanted to make yourself compatible with the latest cybernetic modifications. Without them you won't move up the ladder, you won't be able to attain revenge, or accomplish any personal goals. Not that it should be impossible to be a paragon and advance, but being Ned Stark all the time is dangerous and diifficult. Just like real life!
In a corporate run world, wouldn't a system where you level up with money make sense? Think about it, if you want to be a good-guy-crusader, you're not going to get ahead in the world. As an authority figure, if you take that bribe to look the other way, you can afford that gene therapy you always wanted to make yourself compatible with the latest cybernetic modifications. Without them you won't move up the ladder, you won't be able to attain revenge, or accomplish any personal goals. Not that it should be impossible to be a paragon and advance, but being Ned Stark all the time is dangerous and diifficult. Just like real life!
Then I would rather have that there was two "level" things... the one for your skills and other such character related stuff. And another one for your... social rank or something... where your social rank would open up new doors for you in anything from which shops you can get in to, to possibly what level of medical care you can get, etc.
I agree. I also thought that maybe instead of arbitrary difficulty levels where the enemies multiply and gain higher hp, why not let the choices you make in the game determine the difficulty?
Wanna be a revolutionary? Well, noone ever said going against the flow was easy.
Wanna be a revolutionary? Well, noone ever said going against the flow was easy.
No, no. It's totally easy. Going against the flow? Yeah, easy. Peachy easy.
Just saying.
I mentioned before a counter-revolutionary character I once played in Cyberpunk (dinosaur of a police detective that totally distrusted ALL cyberware). Fun character and of course he had a briefcase full of gadgets and gizmos that allowed him to see, hack (sorta), and otherwise do what was needed. Doubt CP2077 will support this sorta thing (kinda needs a human GM) but it would be damn nice if it did.
Hm.
It kind of should.
I am a huge proponent of the Cyberpunk Theme that Metal is Better than Meat. Not only does Mike Pondsmith say it, it's kind of the idea behind replacing your bits with better bits.
However.
It has many flaws and costs and, frankly, a clever player can get past almost anything (that isn't a straight-up fight vs some borged Solo) with a little effort.
What part of the game would prohibit that playstyle? Yeah, cyber makes it a lot easier and, frankly, cooler, but with Battlegloves and Smartgoggles and the like, I can't see why it wouldn't be doable.
Also presents a cool alternate playstyle for those of you who just -have- to be "alternative".
Meh. In the CRPG SR out now, they equip you with an NPC for the job on the occasional time you need one. Which in DF, iirc, is about twice.
That's different, anyway. We're talking about being effective without cyberware, not being a one man army. Of course you occasionally need professionals - so do the borgs.
Ain't that the truth. Heck, I have a totally non-cybered character, and he can take on borgs and win. He's that much of a badass.
Yeah... going the Borged up way (semi or fully so) is just eaiser and quicker (asuming you have the money for it)... Getting that good without it is more difficult, and takes longer... but it is still possible. It's all just about knowing how to deal with each situation in the best way, and being prepared for it as best as you can as well.
Fighting a Borged up opponent? Probably a good idea to use some kind of EMP, or other types of equipment and/or weaponry that effects those parts of the Borged up person. A weapon that releases a high electrical charge right into the Borged persons replacement leg (for example), and suddenly their mobility goes away... if it's an arm you lower their ability to fight... the chest and the Borged person will possibly temporarily lose their ability to breath or the heart to pump around their blood, or other such goodies.
Borged up people are difficult to beat yes... but it's not impossible, and with the right euipment it might even be easy. Unless of course the Cyberpunk rp has added stuff to these things that shields the components compleatly from anything emp or electical and what not. At which point I would think that was dumb, since I feel that there should always be downsides to everything, and that there should always be ways to take down anything no matter how well protected it might or might not be.
Fighting a Borged up opponent? Probably a good idea to use some kind of EMP, or other types of equipment and/or weaponry that effects those parts of the Borged up person. A weapon that releases a high electrical charge right into the Borged persons replacement leg (for example), and suddenly their mobility goes away... if it's an arm you lower their ability to fight... the chest and the Borged person will possibly temporarily lose their ability to breath or the heart to pump around their blood, or other such goodies.
Borged up people are difficult to beat yes... but it's not impossible, and with the right euipment it might even be easy. Unless of course the Cyberpunk rp has added stuff to these things that shields the components compleatly from anything emp or electical and what not. At which point I would think that was dumb, since I feel that there should always be downsides to everything, and that there should always be ways to take down anything no matter how well protected it might or might not be.
K. To put it in as few words as I can, my dream RPG for CP (or any other title, really) is one that emulates a PnP session as closely as possible. It doesn't matter what the perspective is, it doesn't matter what the graphics are, it doesn't matter whether I can move the PC step by step or if I can only interact with a provided interactive scene.
What matters, is that the game provides a wide variety of possible interactions with the world and the narrative (of which not all need a grounded ultimate purpose for the given goal, but still feel they matter on some level), a solid and reactive goal to reach with as many as possible routes, as much reactivity to what I do and how I do it, and most importantly that everything I can physically do that is governed by the provided set of rules (skills and stats - of which there should be as many as there are meaningful interactions) works through the player character that I have built and progressed as it does in PnP.
If I had my way, the game would work much like this game with Cyberpunk 2020 rules implemented verbatim, heavily buffed up interactivity, a deep branching story and with all the visual and audible quirks the tech today is capable of. Well... buffed up everything but with similiar hands on gameplay.
What matters, is that the game provides a wide variety of possible interactions with the world and the narrative (of which not all need a grounded ultimate purpose for the given goal, but still feel they matter on some level), a solid and reactive goal to reach with as many as possible routes, as much reactivity to what I do and how I do it, and most importantly that everything I can physically do that is governed by the provided set of rules (skills and stats - of which there should be as many as there are meaningful interactions) works through the player character that I have built and progressed as it does in PnP.
If I had my way, the game would work much like this game with Cyberpunk 2020 rules implemented verbatim, heavily buffed up interactivity, a deep branching story and with all the visual and audible quirks the tech today is capable of. Well... buffed up everything but with similiar hands on gameplay.
Yeah, but you didn't need cyberware in Shadowrun.
You shouldn't need it in Cyberpunk. Although, you know, it -is- "cyber" punk.
But that's a fight of a different colour.
I can't see it being necessary in our Dream RPG. Make it easier, yes, but necessary, I hope not.
This... This times a lot. I'd like to see them make it a big intricate feature, but I'd be satisfied even if it was just handled like an updated, sandbox version of the Sega Genesis Shadowrun's netrunning.
Just a style thing, but I think it'd be awesome to have the HUD change drastically with different helmets/masks/implants (assuming there being a first person option).
I'd also like to amend the million requests for multiplayer by saying private server/session based multiplayer with co-op functionality. Include the deathmatch arenas if you want, but not at the expense of co-op (good lord, co-op would make this game truly perfect).
I know it isn't going this direction, but seeing the posts requesting they turn this game into an MMO make me shudder, and thus I feel compelled to rant the following rantation: We've all had enough of the same friggin game wall-papered with different canon -- features adjusted *just enough* to vaguely justify the words "it's nothing like wow". We all know how that story ends: the drooling fanboy community spews garbage about how it isn't going to be wow right up until the game's launch/free-to-play abandonment. Then they all jump back online, erase all their old posts and say "called it. wow clone. garbage game."
That being said, I've been looking forward to this exact game coming out since well before anyone imagined it could even be a video game... We're talking dial-up days, here. lol
Cheers
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*nods*
Yeah... in the end it does not really matter how a game was made, what it's influences where... or not. What matters in the end is "is the game fun to play?" and all that.
WoW never really... worked for me. At three different times I did try the game... first time was a 2 week free kind of a thing for the official game, and then 2 more times with a week each on some private server that a friend of mine (and my brother on another one) wanted me to play on. But I could never really get into it. All the mechanics where fine, and the world it's self was fine, and playing the game in general was fine... I could just never get hooked into it as others did. I actually like their RTS Warcraft games a lot more then WoW. No... my mmos (and I have two of them really)... THE mmo for me... was City of Heroes. I think that is the game I have played the most out of any other game I have ever played in my life, spent about 3.5 years playing that game almost every day. The second mmo I also really liked was Final Fantasy XI... but due to CoH I never played it as much as I would have wanted to (maybe 6 months in total), and due to finally "being done" with CoH in 2009, I was also at the same time done with mmo's in general (since then I have tried several others, but rarely for more then a week or two)... which ment that I never played FFXI more then those initial 6 months. It did saden me a lot when I found out that CoH would be, and eventually was, closed down in 2012 though.
Anyway... I am being off topic... again. XD
So...
My ideas for dream rpg's? That is a bit of a difficult question. I like a lot of different types of RPG's... on both ends of the spectrum of realtime vs turnbased... and on both ends of a lot of other spectrums as well. I think I like turnbased just a tad bit more (because part of the initial thing that really hooked me on rpg's where because I was/am also a pen and paper rpg'er)... but I am not so attached to it that I can in no way like realtime with or without active pause (or what ever they call it) etc... some of my favorit RPG's realtime with or without active pause after all. I am not sure I know which aspect of RPG's I should talk about... but eventually I did think of one.
I have always loved RPG's where you have a team of characters with you, that takes part in the fight (and maybe even other aspects of the game). I know this originated from my pen and paper rpg'ing, which of course is played with many people with their own character. But for electronic gaming it was games like Final Fantasy VII (and other FF games), and all of the Suikoden games I played, that where the first games that started to set those hooks into me for liking team based games. Although, I do recall playing Secrets of Mana on the SNES befor I played those, but at that time I had not yet become a pnp rpg'er yet. On PC, a few years later, games like Fallout (1, 2 and Tactics), the original XCOM games (known as UFO: Enemy Unknown to me, which I played befor Fallout), and a few others like Mech Commander (1 and 2), and later on Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, and to a minor degree Balders Gate (which I played pretty late actually), where other games that also solidified the love for team based games.
In certain games, like Elder Scrolls games, it can be really annoying though (I almost never use the companions in Oblivion or Skyrim for example, or in Fallout 3 and New Vegas either for that matter... and if I did use them I always put them on ranged combat or tell them to wait at a spot as I did the dungeon or something... normally I prefer to run alone in those games), but I was compleatly fine with it in Mass Effect and feel it worked better there for some reason then in the other games I mentioned. Also, as much as I like team based games, I am not so much for multiplayer in games or co-op either for that matter. In most mmo's I spent most of my time soloing. And even in City of Heroes, where I was part of several super groups (guilds), I spent more then half, if not more then 60-70%, of my time in the game soloing. So where I do not have the control over the other player characters in a pnp rpg, and do not mind that I do not have that control over them... I prefer to as much as possible have the control of all of my teams characters console/computer games. But mostly the reason I prefer to play solo or singleplayer games is because playing console/computer games tend to be my "alone time", where I get to wind down and not have to worry about anybody else around me, or anything else for that matter.
Anyway... so... in my idea for a dream rpg, and if it is certain kinds of rpg, I would love for there to be the element of having an entire team to control. At a minimum I would want to have 3-4+ team members. Because with 3-4 in a fantasy game I would have the melee warrior ("me")... the mage/priest type of character... and then the ranged type of character, and the thief like character (if you had 4 characters), but would be combined if you had 3 characters. Preferably though I like 6+ characters in the team. This gives a bigger flexebility in how the team is built I feel. A normal fantasy build for me with 6 players is: 2 melee warriors, 1 thief, 1 ranged, 1 spell based damage dealer, 1 healer. A variation is 3 melee, 1 thief, 1 ranged, and 1 mage/priest.
Without having read the previous 300 pages of this thread I'll just go ahead and try to give a brief description of what I'd love to see 
I guess the shortest description I can come up with would be VtM Bloodlines in huge with more freedom and a more lively city. What I specifically loved about the game was the awesome character creation process, generally the characters in game, the city-by-night atmosphere as well as your own apartments complete with incoming emails, radio and television.
The elements in detail would be:
Character creation including classes and selectable gender (imho very important).
A player home, which greatly helps role-playing (especially tv and radio really enhanced the atmosphere) - another great example for this aspect would be Alpha Protocol. A bad example would be the Saints Row series where there's almost nothing to do in your home and you can buy a lot of houses/apartments which makes it hard or even impossible to relate to them as *your* home.
Memorable characters that accompany you throughout the adventure. I don't necessarily mean companions - but rather important characters that play a role in major plot events. The Witcher is a great example for this. In contrast to this would be an open world rpg where you meet lots of characters and quest givers but fail to remember any of them because the interaction with them is too limited and you meet too many of these fire and forget characters.
If there's a party the companions should be competent with little to none player input - like for instance in Mass Effect. I really dislike rpgs where you have to micro-manage your party since it really breaks immersion and role-playing. Example: I'm currently playing Neverwinter Nights 2 and when my character get's knocked out I just watch and hope the ai can win the fight without me - otherwise it's a reload.
And last but not least I really loved the aspect of Alpha Protocol where you never really knew the motives or allegiances of certain important characters or factions. It makes every encounter meaningful since you never know what consequences your actions might have.
I guess those are the most important things from the top of my head Cheerio!
Edit: Stupid me - I forgot one imho very important aspect: Make combat avoidable - either by dialogue/speech skill or by stealth. Great examples of this would be Deus Ex or the Fallout games where you could even do a pacifist run. The exact opposite of that would be the Risen/Gothic series where your experience is tied to killing things which leads to the player exterminating everything that walks (making the player character automatically chaotic evil no matter what other choices you make in quests, also it leaves you with an empty game world) .
I guess the shortest description I can come up with would be VtM Bloodlines in huge with more freedom and a more lively city. What I specifically loved about the game was the awesome character creation process, generally the characters in game, the city-by-night atmosphere as well as your own apartments complete with incoming emails, radio and television.
The elements in detail would be:
Character creation including classes and selectable gender (imho very important).
A player home, which greatly helps role-playing (especially tv and radio really enhanced the atmosphere) - another great example for this aspect would be Alpha Protocol. A bad example would be the Saints Row series where there's almost nothing to do in your home and you can buy a lot of houses/apartments which makes it hard or even impossible to relate to them as *your* home.
Memorable characters that accompany you throughout the adventure. I don't necessarily mean companions - but rather important characters that play a role in major plot events. The Witcher is a great example for this. In contrast to this would be an open world rpg where you meet lots of characters and quest givers but fail to remember any of them because the interaction with them is too limited and you meet too many of these fire and forget characters.
If there's a party the companions should be competent with little to none player input - like for instance in Mass Effect. I really dislike rpgs where you have to micro-manage your party since it really breaks immersion and role-playing. Example: I'm currently playing Neverwinter Nights 2 and when my character get's knocked out I just watch and hope the ai can win the fight without me - otherwise it's a reload.
And last but not least I really loved the aspect of Alpha Protocol where you never really knew the motives or allegiances of certain important characters or factions. It makes every encounter meaningful since you never know what consequences your actions might have.
I guess those are the most important things from the top of my head
Cheerio! Edit: Stupid me - I forgot one imho very important aspect: Make combat avoidable - either by dialogue/speech skill or by stealth. Great examples of this would be Deus Ex or the Fallout games where you could even do a pacifist run. The exact opposite of that would be the Risen/Gothic series where your experience is tied to killing things which leads to the player exterminating everything that walks (making the player character automatically chaotic evil no matter what other choices you make in quests, also it leaves you with an empty game world) .
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For few or more minutes I thought how the game would feel like if you mash up GTA 5 free roam, Deus ex Dystopia and technology (Mix of Human revolution/Mankind Divided and JC Denton's Daus ex) , little bit of destruction of Red faction Guerrilla mixed with Physx technologies.
Dream world for CP 2077:
1. Open world tech-noir environment (must get this right). Huge income disparity. High-tech low-life themes. Entire digital environments to play in. Despair everywhere.
2. Dark color pallet for those not in the highest income levels. Needs to be a day and night cycle for realism IMO but even the days should be dark and grey from pollution. Maybe have corporate heads in sky-rises above the clouds that are completely different tone.
3. Story focused on what it means to be human in a high-tech world, about personal connections in a disconnected world and about fighting (or encouraging) oppression - depending on your choices.
4. Choice and consequence must matter.
5. I definitely think there should be a class mechanic system to accommodate many play-styles. Allow a bit more variety for player characters than has existed in the Witcher series (I know that makes the story part hard).
6. The PC should not be able to become any sort of savior. The entire point of this world environment is that the institutions make that impossible. Make it about changing the lives of the characters around you, not about changing the world (although I think trying to change the world is important).
1. Open world tech-noir environment (must get this right). Huge income disparity. High-tech low-life themes. Entire digital environments to play in. Despair everywhere.
2. Dark color pallet for those not in the highest income levels. Needs to be a day and night cycle for realism IMO but even the days should be dark and grey from pollution. Maybe have corporate heads in sky-rises above the clouds that are completely different tone.
3. Story focused on what it means to be human in a high-tech world, about personal connections in a disconnected world and about fighting (or encouraging) oppression - depending on your choices.
4. Choice and consequence must matter.
5. I definitely think there should be a class mechanic system to accommodate many play-styles. Allow a bit more variety for player characters than has existed in the Witcher series (I know that makes the story part hard).
6. The PC should not be able to become any sort of savior. The entire point of this world environment is that the institutions make that impossible. Make it about changing the lives of the characters around you, not about changing the world (although I think trying to change the world is important).
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