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As mentioned earlier, if you wish to express concern about what has recently happened, fair enough, but turning this thread into a witch-hunt because of events long ago is most definitely not. The forum rules do still apply.
As mentioned earlier, if you wish to express concern about what has recently happened, fair enough, but turning this thread into a witch-hunt because of events long ago is most definitely not. The forum rules do still apply.
The relevant part is that he hasn't changed at all at a Community Mananger. I like many others were willing to give him a chance despite knowing fully well what he had done in the past. My personal logic was that for all I can say about him and Bioware employees they at least bothered to interact on the forums with their fans, something CDPR doesn't seem to give a damn about, so I had hoped that would change at least.
But fine to mention his actions at CDPR. He threw a completely fabricated excuse about YT compression being the reason of Elder Blood, and then telling us to essentially STFU because Witcher 3 would get a number of articles praising it to the sun and then calling people still talking about the downgrade "tools" and finally the KKK comparison.
I hope this doesn't apply "to events long ago", because all of these took place recently when he was and still is CDPR's community manager for NA.
EDIT: On a final note. I really hope CDPR doesn't remove him for just the one tweet, that would unleash the hounds of hell on their heads. I can already see the headlines accusing CDPR of misogyny for siding in some way with GamerGate.
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Thanks for taking the time to explain. It's unequivocally clear why & how people manage the capacity to be upset at what Chris said. And, thanks again for the elaborate explanation. Wow, what a mess.
So... professional people (journalists or devs or whatever) handle of this information via a anonymous media like Tweeter? Incredible, unbilieveble...
And anonymous people, anonymously judging anonymous people from a hashtag?
Oh, Lord, I am too old for such technological advancement. My brain is too used to contact more ... tangible to give them some credibility.
And anonymous people, anonymously judging anonymous people from a hashtag?
Oh, Lord, I am too old for such technological advancement. My brain is too used to contact more ... tangible to give them some credibility.
In light of recent events, as well as past sayings, I think it may have been a mistake on CDPR's part to hire Chris as a CM. Insulting many people by saying they are "tools" left a very bad taste, but comparing some of us to racist terrorists is really crossing the line. I don't think this antagonizing behavior is healthy to this community, and certainly not something I want to see associated with CDPR. I hope CDPR is in search for a new CM. I propose @Kinley for the job. He can do no wrong, and I already see him as an unofficial CM anyway.
I didn't want to form an opinion straight away so I waited a bit to mull things over. Having done that for a while now, I am disappointed and a bit saddened.
I didn't know Chris before and only had what users here who came from BSN had to say about him - which was almost entirely negative. They linked to a few of his posts which I found obnoxious and not appropriate for a community manager. But I gave him the benefit of the doubt - I didn't know the context in which his posts were made, and maybe they were just a few unfortunate yet forgivable blunders. But following this site for a while now and very closely I have a clearer, first hand impression of Chris' conduct and I know the context this time around, and I find it counter-productive to CDPR in general and the community in particular.
When the downgrade thread was still all the rage, and Chris finally spoke out about it and called people tools, I quickly approved his post because I was caught up in the commotion myself. In retrospect I realize how ugly that was, coming from someone in an official capacity. I didn't agree with what I thought was downgrade hysteria, and it was refreshing to see someone from CDPR speak a bit more bluntly. But now I realize how maddening it must have been for people on the "receiving end".
The way I understand a community manager's role (and I may be wrong), the person mediates between the fans and the company, encourages the growth of the community and reconciles fans (or better yet and more impressive - even non-fans) who are upset. I believe that not only has Chris not managed to restore friendly relations with people who were upset over some concrete case, he even succeeded in alienating fans who didn't have any prior problem at all.
Comparing GamerGate to the KKK is so absurd I honestly feel embarrassed this is even coming up. I won't get into that actual argument - because it is irrelevant. The mere fact that Chris has managed to spark this conflict inside the community - when there wasn't even one before! - is what I consider a terrible failure in his role. CDPR has somehow managed to steer away from the GamerGate scandal. And Chris, single-handedly, shoved the company right into it by one careless Tweet, and has people actually opening this can of worms. Why... who knows. Freedom of speech. This is not responding to some ongoing argument in the community, such as the downgrade threat, in a controversial manner. Chris just created a whole new argument in the community out of nothing.
How does a community manager do that? Why would a community manager even bring this up? What purpose does this serve? Hyperbole doesn't excuse it because of his role. Hyperbole is something that should be reserved for random trolls in YouTube comment sections, not a person who fills a role of communication, and represents a company. How can a role of communication be fulfilled by someone who doesn't restrain the way he communicates? In a way I would have been less bothered if this came from one of the actual developers of the game. But Chris is much more the face of the company than Miles is, for example. Miles was hired to create badass levels, so even if he Tweets something political I consider stupid, it doesn't reflect much on CDPR. But Chris is under a different capacity. This is the main person the community has interaction with. His job, the way I understand it, is about speaking for CDPR and winning good faith for them. When your role is so heavily invested in public relations, then I believe you should seriously restrain your own privilege of speech because of your responsibilities. And not provoke people over... over nothing. This boggles my mind. It's like going out of your way to anger people when your role should be winning them.
I feel that Chris, despite having agreed with him on some occasions, is managing to antagonize and alienate the community rather than bring it together. Maybe there is a lot he does behind the scenes which I am unaware of, but as it stands, I honestly do not understand what are his positive contributions, while in contrast I am seeing (and feeling myself) many of the negative ones.
There is also an additional problem here. According to the forum rules,
You might say that Chris is not to blame because people on the internet will always find something to whine about. Maybe. I feel that's dodging it, because there are plenty of serious posts here, and I believe a community manager should never become a source of contention to begin with. That in and of itself is a grave failure. Especially when he's the one actually bringing up completely new issues to the table which the community wasn't even torn over before. I am not here as long as others, but still, in my time I do not recall Marcin ever being the source of so many negative emotions in all his time and answers, than Chris managed to be in a much smaller amount of public activity. I actually don't recall Marcin ever being the source of some anger. Overall, I find this bearing very negative impacts on the community. I can't speak for everyone, but as for myself, I find this a disappointing turn of events that does more to turn me away from the community and CDPR (emotionally, anyway - too soon to say about participation) than pulling me deeper. It's turning into just another game forum. And that's why I mentioned in my opening line that I'm a bit saddened.
P.S.
The Bear as CM? Boy oh boy. One Kinley please.
I didn't know Chris before and only had what users here who came from BSN had to say about him - which was almost entirely negative. They linked to a few of his posts which I found obnoxious and not appropriate for a community manager. But I gave him the benefit of the doubt - I didn't know the context in which his posts were made, and maybe they were just a few unfortunate yet forgivable blunders. But following this site for a while now and very closely I have a clearer, first hand impression of Chris' conduct and I know the context this time around, and I find it counter-productive to CDPR in general and the community in particular.
When the downgrade thread was still all the rage, and Chris finally spoke out about it and called people tools, I quickly approved his post because I was caught up in the commotion myself. In retrospect I realize how ugly that was, coming from someone in an official capacity. I didn't agree with what I thought was downgrade hysteria, and it was refreshing to see someone from CDPR speak a bit more bluntly. But now I realize how maddening it must have been for people on the "receiving end".
The way I understand a community manager's role (and I may be wrong), the person mediates between the fans and the company, encourages the growth of the community and reconciles fans (or better yet and more impressive - even non-fans) who are upset. I believe that not only has Chris not managed to restore friendly relations with people who were upset over some concrete case, he even succeeded in alienating fans who didn't have any prior problem at all.
Comparing GamerGate to the KKK is so absurd I honestly feel embarrassed this is even coming up. I won't get into that actual argument - because it is irrelevant. The mere fact that Chris has managed to spark this conflict inside the community - when there wasn't even one before! - is what I consider a terrible failure in his role. CDPR has somehow managed to steer away from the GamerGate scandal. And Chris, single-handedly, shoved the company right into it by one careless Tweet, and has people actually opening this can of worms. Why... who knows. Freedom of speech. This is not responding to some ongoing argument in the community, such as the downgrade threat, in a controversial manner. Chris just created a whole new argument in the community out of nothing.
How does a community manager do that? Why would a community manager even bring this up? What purpose does this serve? Hyperbole doesn't excuse it because of his role. Hyperbole is something that should be reserved for random trolls in YouTube comment sections, not a person who fills a role of communication, and represents a company. How can a role of communication be fulfilled by someone who doesn't restrain the way he communicates? In a way I would have been less bothered if this came from one of the actual developers of the game. But Chris is much more the face of the company than Miles is, for example. Miles was hired to create badass levels, so even if he Tweets something political I consider stupid, it doesn't reflect much on CDPR. But Chris is under a different capacity. This is the main person the community has interaction with. His job, the way I understand it, is about speaking for CDPR and winning good faith for them. When your role is so heavily invested in public relations, then I believe you should seriously restrain your own privilege of speech because of your responsibilities. And not provoke people over... over nothing. This boggles my mind. It's like going out of your way to anger people when your role should be winning them.
I feel that Chris, despite having agreed with him on some occasions, is managing to antagonize and alienate the community rather than bring it together. Maybe there is a lot he does behind the scenes which I am unaware of, but as it stands, I honestly do not understand what are his positive contributions, while in contrast I am seeing (and feeling myself) many of the negative ones.
There is also an additional problem here. According to the forum rules,
Because we do not have the option to discuss moderation in open (which is something I find distances the moderators from the community as well and creates an antagonistic and suspicious atmosphere more often than not), our only route is to go through Chris. But as it stands Chris is doing nothing to inspire confidence in this small community. He is doing the stark opposite I feel. The main channel I have for disputes with moderators is a "judge", so to speak, who does not appear welcoming in the least, or open to discussions with an attentive ear. As it stands I, personally, have no problem - because I don't have any ongoing conflicts with the moderators. But boy, would this suck if I were on the other side of things, wanting to be part of a community of a game I love, but feeling myself utterly secluded due to my opinions with no channel to go to which I can trust.
You might say that Chris is not to blame because people on the internet will always find something to whine about. Maybe. I feel that's dodging it, because there are plenty of serious posts here, and I believe a community manager should never become a source of contention to begin with. That in and of itself is a grave failure. Especially when he's the one actually bringing up completely new issues to the table which the community wasn't even torn over before. I am not here as long as others, but still, in my time I do not recall Marcin ever being the source of so many negative emotions in all his time and answers, than Chris managed to be in a much smaller amount of public activity. I actually don't recall Marcin ever being the source of some anger. Overall, I find this bearing very negative impacts on the community. I can't speak for everyone, but as for myself, I find this a disappointing turn of events that does more to turn me away from the community and CDPR (emotionally, anyway - too soon to say about participation) than pulling me deeper. It's turning into just another game forum. And that's why I mentioned in my opening line that I'm a bit saddened.
P.S.
The Bear as CM? Boy oh boy. One Kinley please.
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Come Monday, CD Projekt RED have the unmissable opportunity to distance themselves by issuing a public statement.
Regrading the hypothetical sacking of TheEvilChris, my opinion is its necessity depends upon circumstances which at the moment I cannot establish. Again, besides that tweet, did he pressure the Calgary Expo into closing that booth? If so, in what capacity? Was the booth closed because that tweet had «North America community manager at CD Projekt RED» stamped on?
But let's go with the best case scenario and assume it was indeed an isolated inconsequential misstep. CD Projekt have a range of course of actions at their disposal: they can reprimand him in private for not postfacing that tweet with a disclaimer, they can issue the aforementioned public statement, they can reflect upon what the role of community manager entails and, while they're at it, reflect upon the forum rules, their practical application, how have people in charge of enforcing them performed, and finally make the appropriate and necessary changes.
As I and others have pointed out, disputes with moderators have to go through TheEvilCHris. In light of recent and distant events, who here now thinks he possesses the required qualities of impartiality and fair-mindedness? Who here would trust him with sorting out a severe conflict with one of the moderators? The suggestion to have Kinley as community manager would be a splendid first step though, one I wholeheartedly endorse anyway.
Kinley bear, you'd do great.
And make @EliHarel a moderator! It's a must! I hold this truth to be self-evident. The guy is a bottomless well of reasonableness!
( except- whenever he disagrees with me, then he's invariably wrong )
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And a further reminder, we will not tolerate this thread being turned into a witch-hunt based on anything that happened in the distant past.
(Yes, another deletion)
(Yes, another deletion)
When your main responsabilty is mantain an online community i don't see it extreme at all.
Was it a stupid comment? Yes.
Should he be fired for it? No.
Should he issue an apology? In my opinion, yes.
Should you boycott TW3 because of this? Fuck no. It's just one guy, not the entire studio that said this, and he didn't even work on the game itself.
Should he be fired for it? No.
Should he issue an apology? In my opinion, yes.
Should you boycott TW3 because of this? Fuck no. It's just one guy, not the entire studio that said this, and he didn't even work on the game itself.
Yesterday I tweeted a comment that compared GamerGate with the KKK. This was an insulting and asinine comment that I should not have made. I apologize to everyone whom I offended by saying this.
This comment was made by me on my personal twitter account and in no way represents the beliefs or values of CD PROJEKT RED, their staff or their games. I take full responsibility for the statement and I hope that people reading this understand it was a lapse in judgement by me personally and is not supported or condoned by the CD PROJEKT RED studio.
Once again, I sincerely apologize to those I offended.
This comment was made by me on my personal twitter account and in no way represents the beliefs or values of CD PROJEKT RED, their staff or their games. I take full responsibility for the statement and I hope that people reading this understand it was a lapse in judgement by me personally and is not supported or condoned by the CD PROJEKT RED studio.
Once again, I sincerely apologize to those I offended.
I saw you posted it on your twitter as well. Good job, I think the community here is more mature than the average twitter user.
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An apology, honestly? Seriously, this is what happened:
http://comicsalliance.com/honey-badger-radio-calgary-expo/
For these proceedings, gamergate has to apologize with more tweets than twitter could ever stand.
There should be gaters by the millions distancing themselves from the Honey Badger Brigade, right now.
It's not happening because gamergate is quite the inclusive hate group.
The 'lapse in judgement' here absolutely was to compare gamergate to the KKK. The John Birch Society would have been a much more accurate comparison.
http://comicsalliance.com/honey-badger-radio-calgary-expo/
For these proceedings, gamergate has to apologize with more tweets than twitter could ever stand.
There should be gaters by the millions distancing themselves from the Honey Badger Brigade, right now.
It's not happening because gamergate is quite the inclusive hate group.
The 'lapse in judgement' here absolutely was to compare gamergate to the KKK. The John Birch Society would have been a much more accurate comparison.
Thank you for the apology Chris. But please - Educate your self before making such comments. I would recommend watching them in the order listed.
This two are on me -
I personally am not trying to "publicly excecute" Chris just trying to educate him so he can avoid further problems.
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