The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

[Vigilance.492]

why would you waste potions on random bandits and wolves?

Why not? And isn't that the whole point?
Again, I could be wrong here, this is simply the impression I got from statements and developer interviews, but it seems they were upset about two things with Alchemy from the previous games: A. People's inability to interact with it at all & B. People hoarding potions to save them for stronger situations later, and not letting themselves experiment and just use potions consistently.

Now ultimately you can't fix A unless you FORCE people to use potions/bombs/oils. Like the Werewolf encounter in the 35 minute demo is a scenario where it seems practically forced, or else the enemy is near-impossible to kill. However I'd wager most encounter won't be designed like that.

B however is the more prominent issue it seems, and something CDPR felt like they could fix through the changes they've made in 3. So doesn't not using your potions against "random" encounters defeat the whole purpose? If people STILL feel the need to hoard their potions for bigger encounters like the Noonwraith or Golem, then hasn't the new design "failed" (Or I guess just not lived up to its full purpose)? Alcohol seems to be completely abundant and that doesn't seem like a reason to be coy about potion use, and everything about the way the new system is designed gives me reason to believe people SHOULD be using potions for EVERYTHING, even random encounters with wolves and bandits.

Quickly scrubbing through those videos actually does show some depleted potion charges and one guy even has an oil applied to his weapon, so these things aren't being entirely neglected. The combination of inexperienced players and the aimlessly-wonder-the openworld-style of these previews is not really conductive to drawing conclusions about what does and doesnt work.

Well I scrubbed through to combat encounters of like 4-5 and only noticed one or two potion depletions and that was it. Still seems pretty pathetic to me considering what the new system was meant to achieve.

Also once again there's this notion that because these guys are "inexperienced" it doesn't have value. As I said in my previous post, I'd say a strong portion of the people here on the forums are the dedicated fans, most of which probably had no issues with a little herb farming and re-brewing. We are not the people this new system is designed for, we would have experimented and messed around with Alchemy regardless. It was designed as a solution to the A & B problems above, which mostly means the newcomers, inexperienced or simply those that failed to use Alchemy in the previous games, and it really doesn't look like it's having that intended effect.

But eh, once again I'm going full on negative mode about this. I was intending on keeping my mouth shut until the game came out and we saw it in action for ourselves, but I just can't help but feel really disappointed when I see a change made for a purpose, which has affected a part of the game which I hold so dear and it appears to have failed its purpose - at least based on the (Relatively limited but I still think enough) evidence I see before me right now.

 

[mecha_fish]

+ The difficulty level.

I always found it as a branch of the game that's only truly relevant when you play on Dark. I played TW1 and TW2 on their highest difficulties and I still didn't feel a need to use potions all the time. Not even most of the time.

This is a pretty valid point. I recall that the Joes in the Angry Joe review actually said they boosted their level for their previewing purposes -- and that was just after the Noonwraith fight. So this could add to the reasons as to why the youtubers didn't seem to use alchemy so far. I don't know what difficulty level and how much higher their XP was boosted, but I think it's fairly safe to say they were probably on Normal and obviously boosted enough to only need bread.

I also recall that Hard Mode in TW1 was described as 'alchemy is necessary for survival'. I'm not sure if that mindset has also been taken for tw3.

I think some of the combat mechanics videos will be released later -- one youtuber said they intended to examine alchemy specifically, alongside signs and the other skilltrees in their 'part two'.

 

[azrael.1289]

Also once again there's this notion that because these guys are "inexperienced" it doesn't have value. As I said in my previous post, I'd say a strong portion of the people here on the forums are the dedicated fans, most of which probably had no issues with a little herb farming and re-brewing. We are not the people this new system is designed for, we would have experimented and messed around with Alchemy regardless. It was designed as a solution to the A & B problems above, which mostly means the newcomers, inexperienced or simply those that failed to use Alchemy in the previous games, and it really doesn't look like it's having that intended effect.

Well, the system is for people who took time to brew potions and understood the system in previous games but didn't use them much in battle despite it being a viable alternative simply because of the hoarding mentality. Believe me, there are many gamers like that; gamers are usually hoarders. I don't understand how an auto-refill system changes anything except there is no longer a need to 'save' the potion/herbs for future use. Players who used alchemy and used potions will still do so and people who used alchemy and were reluctant to use them will now do so. That's the problem CDPR wanted to address. It's not more viable(or less for that matter) an option than it previously was nor is it more(or less) needed than it previously was; it just encourages people who learn the system to use it more freely.

This system isn't a solution to inexperienced players who refuse to learn the alchemy system no matter what the system is; and CDPR doesn't want to fix that. Why should they force everyone to use potions even on easiest difficulty?

The reason you don't see a point to this system is because I'm guessing you weren't one of those people who didn't use potions regularly. I on the other hand find it refreshing because I had a shit ton of most herbs and potions in previous games and still didn't use them as a part of my regular combat. Now, I'll be much more liberal in my use of potions. So, I see the benefits almost immediately.

 

[thislsmadness]

Why not? And isn't that the whole point?
Again, I could be wrong here, this is simply the impression I got from statements and developer interviews, but it seems they were upset about two things with Alchemy from the previous games: A. People's inability to interact with it at all & B. People hoarding potions to save them for stronger situations later, and not letting themselves experiment and just use potions consistently.

Now ultimately you can't fix A unless you FORCE people to use potions/bombs/oils. Like the Werewolf encounter in the 35 minute demo is a scenario where it seems practically forced, or else the enemy is near-impossible to kill. However I'd wager most encounter won't be designed like that.

B however is the more prominent issue it seems, and something CDPR felt like they could fix through the changes they've made in 3. So doesn't not using your potions against "random" encounters defeat the whole purpose? If people STILL feel the need to hoard their potions for bigger encounters like the Noonwraith or Golem, then hasn't the new design "failed" (Or I guess just not lived up to its full purpose)? Alcohol seems to be completely abundant and that doesn't seem like a reason to be coy about potion use, and everything about the way the new system is designed gives me reason to believe people SHOULD be using potions for EVERYTHING, even random encounters with wolves and bandits.

No, I don't think they intend for you to be burning potions in every fight. Just think of it rationally... does CDPR expect players to take the time and meditate after every combat encounter? If that was the intention then they should have gone with duration timers more like the first Witcher where potion effects were more like maintenance buffs that lasted for hours. I think the expectation is that players will use potions when the need them but they will do it without any hesitation -- the bolded middle bit of that still needs to exist, whether its by forcing it by disadvantage, encouraging it through advantage, or just pushing players to their challenging limits.

Well I scrubbed through to combat encounters of like 4-5 and only noticed one or two potion depletions and that was it. Still seems pretty pathetic to me considering what the new system was meant to achieve.

Also once again there's this notion that because these guys are "inexperienced" it doesn't have value. As I said in my previous post, I'd say a strong portion of the people here on the forums are the dedicated fans, most of which probably had no issues with a little herb farming and re-brewing. We are not the people this new system is designed for, we would have experimented and messed around with Alchemy regardless. It was designed as a solution to the A & B problems above, which mostly means the newcomers, inexperienced or simply those that failed to use Alchemy in the previous games, and it really doesn't look like it's having that intended effect.

But eh, once again I'm going full on negative mode about this. I was intending on keeping my mouth shut until the game came out and we saw it in action for ourselves, but I just can't help but feel really disappointed when I see a change made for a purpose, which has affected a part of the game which I hold so dear and it appears to have failed its purpose - at least based on the (Relatively limited but I still think enough) evidence I see before me right now.

I don't think the design of this has anything to do with inexperience, its an attempt to address hording. I can't speak for everyone else here but I am a total horder. I was recently playing Dark Souls 2, guess which items I use all the time and which items I almost never used until the final encounter? Etus Flasks are very similar in function to this new Alchemy system, and I'll gulp those down when I need them. Meanwhile, there are times Id rather just die and start over than eat a powerful life gem.

Addressing inexperience is something that is done through education, encouragement, and reinforcement. Again, people have to be placed in circumstances where they have a reason to explore more advanced gameplay systems. I've barely seen people using any sign other than Igni, no one is swapping out skills, or throwing bombs, or using adrenaline, or the side step, or riposte or parry. Seems strange to just dismiss all of these combat systems as potential failures just because inexperienced youtubers didn't use them all the time in footage where they are mostly goofing off and exploring.

 

[Vigilance.492]

No, I don't think they intend for you to be burning potions in every fight. Just think of it rationally... does CDPR expect players to take the time and meditate after every combat encounter?

Except that potions have 2/2 uses (And more once upgraded), so it's not like you would be meditating after every encounter, and how frequent are encounters anyway? It doesn't seem that crazy based on the footage we've now seen. Seems perfectly reasonable to use a potion for most encounters, and if you were someone who used potions in the previous games you generally always had a potion up whenever you went out somewhere with assumed danger.

As for hoarding, I understand, but I still think there's better solutions to the problem than the way the new system is designed. Of course this has already been discussed at length throughout the thread.
Ultimately this whole issue is highly subjective, apologies if I made it sound like I was talking facts and data, I probably did come across like that. For me, I don't see this new system giving enough advantages and reaching its true purpose, while ripping out multiple elements that made the systems in the previous games so special. If it eliminates hoarding for some folk, great I guess, but for me it's just not worth the sacrifice of certain elements and I believe the same result could have been achieved without ripping that stuff out.

If the entire point of the system was solely to stop hoarding, then to an extent I'd say it succeeded, because in the Youtuber's footage I see people who mostly just avoided it, rather than it being a hoarding issue. However I think it's pretty evident, not only in the gameplay implementation, but through developer interviews that the purpose goes far beyond just that. It's by that description that I believe it really hasn't lived up to its purpose, and it's why I find myself pretty damn disappointed in the finalized changes.

 

[Cochus1]

Its not directly related to Alquimia but i dont know where to post it: Does anyone know the use of food and drinks??

 

[moonknightgog]

Let's be honest, you could beat both previous games easily without using any potions. So if it's a gimmick in 3 because of that reason, then it was a gimmick in the previous games.

Actually...it's not true. At least in my experience. I just finish The Witcher 1 yesterday for the third time, and a lot of enemy encounters require the use of the right potions, the right combinations between Albedo, Rubedo and Nigredo (Drinking an Albedo potion help you to drink more potions and to not saturate the toxicity bar ...but you have to choose the right Albedo potion. For example, it is bettere drink first swallow than black blood, because the latter have a lot more toxicity) and the right oil.

 

[mecha_fish]

Its not directly related to Alquimia but i dont know where to post it: Does anyone know the use of food and drinks??

minor health regeneration, as they were in tw1. i can't say anything about non-alcoholic drink benefits-- i haven't paid attention to whether a youtuber has drunk something or not. you can get drunk on alcohols though.

 

[thislsmadness]

Except that potions have 2/2 uses (And more once upgraded), so it's not like you would be meditating after every encounter, and how frequent are encounters anyway? It doesn't seem that crazy based on the footage we've now seen. Seems perfectly reasonable to use a potion for most encounters, and if you were someone who used potions in the previous games you generally always had a potion up whenever you went out somewhere with assumed danger.

If you are "suppose" to be utilizing potions in every encounter why would you limit yourself to a single charge? Or are you suggesting that people only use what they need... just not when they need it? That seems completely unreasonable to me. If their intent was that you would be using them in every single encounter then the design is counter intuitive to that. As I said, if that is what they wanted, they should have given them timers similar to the previous games.

As for hoarding, I understand, but I still think there's better solutions to the problem than the way the new system is designed. Of course this has already been discussed at length throughout the thread.
Ultimately this whole issue is highly subjective, apologies if I made it sound like I was talking facts and data, I probably did come across like that. For me, I don't see this new system giving enough advantages and reaching its true purpose, while ripping out multiple elements that made the systems in the previous games so special. If it eliminates hoarding for some folk, great I guess, but for me it's just not worth the sacrifice of certain elements and I believe the same result could have been achieved without ripping that stuff out.

If the entire point of the system was solely to stop hoarding, then to an extent I'd say it succeeded, because in the Youtuber's footage I see people who mostly just avoided it, rather than it being a hoarding issue. However I think it's pretty evident, not only in the gameplay implementation, but through developer interviews that the purpose goes far beyond just that. It's by that description that I believe it really hasn't lived up to its purpose, and it's why I find myself pretty damn disappointed in the finalized changes.

Its possible I've missed some discussion on it. However, the only two reasons I've seen cited is the intent is to address hording and to make the alchemy tree more appealing. I've never really heard anyone say that they changed it to make it "noob friendly" or anything along those lines. I know that that is the impression that al ot of people here get when a developer says they are making something more accessible.

Personally, at glance, I still think that this system marries the spirit of each previous system. On one hand you have active usage/toxcity management of the first game and the lean toward preparation from the second. For me, the only valuable gameplay system lost is the experimentation/discover mechanic from the first. I'm excited to give ti a go myself and a handful of inexperienced youtubers who are just pretty much just mashing sword attacks and roll are not going to detract from that.

 

[ljehwog]

Actually...it's not true. At least in my experience. I just finish The Witcher 1 yesterday for the third time, and a lot of enemy encounters require the use of the right potions, the right combinations between Albedo, Rubedo and Nigredo (Drinking an Albedo potion help you to drink more potions and to not saturate the toxicity bar ...but you have to choose the right Albedo potion. For example, it is bettere drink first swallow than black blood, because the latter have a lot more toxicity) and the right oil.

It's just sad to see a well put together alchemy system with just the right amount of intricacy getting the step-motherly treatment like this.

Anyone in the know if a new version of the Witcher's modding toolkit will see a simultaneous release with the game? The sooner this mess gets fixed with a proper "Classic Alchemy" mod the better.

 

[Vigilance.492]

If you are "suppose" to be utilizing potions in every encounter why would you limit yourself to a single charge?

Most of the encounters in recent footage barely lasts more than a minute or two. So yes, just dropping a single swallow, thunderbolt etc, charge seems perfectly reasonable to make that encounter go a little more swiftly or recover lost HP etc. Or at least that's how I view the systems new design, it definitely seems like people should be constantly using potions, even for "insignificant" encounters.
It's only on the really big boss battles where you'll be using multiple charges, possibly even your entire potion reserve, to take it down, and you're pretty much expected to be meditating after those kind of large encounters.

I've never really heard anyone say that they changed it to make it "noob friendly" or anything along those lines. I know that that is the impression that al ot of people here get when a developer says they are making something more accessible.

Accessibility is definitely the word I would use, and not with the kind of negative connotation that "noob friendly" would imply. One of the key aspects of the new system was to encourage more people to use potions, by reducing herb farming, the constant re-brewing and just generally making it easier to interact with, you encourage more people to get into it. Then there's hoarding which is a part of it, and also encouraging people to experiment more.

From the information we know, and what we've seen, I just don't think the system has lived up to its goals, or at least not in general, and it has sacrificed many elements of the system that I loved to achieve those goals. Again, it's a very personal thing, but I'm just really not feeling the success behind the system, and there was so many other ways they could have gone about Alchemy which could have been better.

 

[thislsmadness]

Most of the encounters in recent footage barely lasts more than a minute or two. So yes, just dropping a single swallow, thunderbolt etc, charge seems perfectly reasonable to make that encounter go a little more swiftly or recover lost HP etc. Or at least that's how I view the systems new design, it definitely seems like people should be constantly using potions, even for "insignificant" encounters.
It's only on the really big boss battles where you'll be using multiple charges, possibly even your entire potion reserve, to take it down, and you're pretty much expected to be meditating after those kind of large encounters.

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree here. Without even touching the system I can say, without a doubt, that I'm not going to just burn though potions on fodder enemies that are dead in seconds and I can't imagine why anyone else would. Having to meditate after every encounter, or every other encounter, or every 3 encounters, just sounds like a whole new level of tedium to me, especially when you start to pile on toxicity management. Now if I run across a group of bandits that have maybe caught me off guard or I misjudge a dodge and they've done some damage to me, of course I'm going to replenish that health instead of dying and being sent back to a checkpoint.

Accessibility is definitely the word I would use, and not with the kind of negative connotation that "noob friendly" would imply. One of the key aspects of the new system was to encourage more people to use potions, by reducing herb farming, the constant re-brewing and just generally making it easier to interact with, you encourage more people to get into it. Then there's hoarding which is a part of it, and also encouraging people to experiment more.

From the information we know, and what we've seen, I just don't think the system has lived up to its goals, or at least not in general, and it has sacrificed many elements of the system that I loved to achieve those goals. Again, it's a very personal thing, but I'm just really not feeling the success behind the system, and there was so many other ways they could have gone about Alchemy which could have been better.

Here is what Konrad said when he introduced the system:

Of course, we approach the alchemy a different way too. I don’t know how you play, but when I’m playing, I’ve always got a bunch of elixirs and bombs and everything in my inventory, because there will always be a better time to use it, but I never use it.

So we had a really long think about what to do with this, because we put a lot of work into alchemy, and people don’t use it. Then once, I woke up with the idea -- which I shared with our team, and they liked it very much

So its not a case where brewing and collecting herbs is "too difficult". Its a case where people have have this stuff and they still arent using it.

 

[moonknightgog]

So its not a case where brewing and collecting herbs is "too difficult". Its a case where people have have this stuff and they still arent using it.

Then...make potions absolutely necessary in order to win a fight.

So we had a really long think about what to do with this, because we put a lot of work into alchemy, and people don’t use it.

I use it, Konrad. I use it.. And I appreciate all the work you have put in the alchemy in the last 2 games (expecially the first).
What I'd like to have is a very complex system...not something made in order to not bother "lazy gamers" to learning how alchemy system works.

 

[thislsmadness]

Then...make potions absolutely necessary in order to win a fight.

All fights? That would be ridiculous. However, I do hope that the more challenging encounters such as the monster hunts do require smart potion use and management, particularly on hard/dark mode.

 

[moonknightgog]

All fights? That would be ridiculous. However, I do hope that the more challenging encounters such as the monster hunts do require smart potion use and management, particularly on hard/dark mode.

No, not all fights.
Trash mobs with low level comparing to Geralt could be faced without potions.
But...for the others...yes, it should be...if not necessary, at least higly recommended.
This is one of the reasons I would like to have a much more darker night. Because in this way, I have to use Cat potion, so I have to use Alchemy.
When I face a vampire, I should be forced or encouraged to use Black Blood potion.
And so on...

 

[thislsmadness]

No, not all fights.
Trash mobs with low level comparing to Geralt could be faced without potions.
But...for the others...yes, it should be...if not necessary, at least higly recommended.
This is one of the reasons I would like to have a much more darker night. Because in this way, I have to use Cat potion, so I have to use Alchemy.
When I face a vampire, I should be forced or encouraged to use Black Blood potion.
And so on...

Sure, I agree. There isnt any indication that we wont see things like this.

 

[Assalander]

I have nothing against auto-refilling, on the contrary. It doesn't mean the the system will necessarily be dumbed down (it was already in AoK anyway), it just removes the tedious parts. Once you brewed a specific potion, almost any noob would know how to do it again, so what's wrong with automating the process? Same for the ingredients, I often end up hating alchemy in RPGs because of the hoarding it forces me to do, so I won't miss that. I understand though that it's a matter of personnal taste. I hope they let you the choice of which potions you want to auto-resplenish though, as it would allow some people to just not automate anything, and avoid wasting your alcoholic bases on potions you don't currently want.

And speaking of alcohol (we're near Beltane after all, btw do you think CDPR will do something more for this occasion?), I hope they have reintroduced the concept of better quality and rarer alcohols necessary for the most powerful potions...

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

What are the benefits of using potions in TW3? honestly. If we want to analyze this, everything has to be considered, the whole context.

What do potions give me that's good, in a game where dying has no real consequence, where how you win fights pretty much has no real consequence or a serious one, and where action based difficulty is medium to high, thus encouraging to be a "better player" rather than buffing your stats?

That last point is particularly important, because when I see people talking about TW1, it gets rarely mentioned. In TW1 there almost wasnt any "player combat skill" other than choosing your style, clicking at the right time, and using stuff some times, so the fights more or less played the same and the defining difference was made by stats and special effects, which are in the realm of potions and strategical planning (leveling and picking skills).

In practice, all you get is a good bonus to make a fight easier in TW3; now that can be useful for extremely difficult fights, but extremely difficult fights are moderately rare in a balanced game, unless you make most fights winnable without potions (TW1, TW2), or most fights too hard or impossible without potions (TW1 FCR).

At the end of the day, I think a ton of the problems people have with alchemy, of the 3 games, with autorefilling, and even things that the developers want to solve, simply have to do with potions not giving you enough benefits, they just arent that important. From time to time in TW games I face X monster that is relatively difficult to beat and so on, what do I do? I die 2 or 3 times and then beat the crap out of it; not only its perfectly viable, but it can be even more enjoyable than using potions, that way I get to experience the monster's might first hand, and also beat it at its own game, and after some struggle too, which adds to the excitement and etc.
Plus lets not forget that if in TW3 you are expected to use potions all the time, and yet the enemies arent brutally hard, drinking potions will ruin your action experience by making combat way easier with no challenge, something that greatly discourages their use, since I want have fun, and sword fighting is much more fun than clicking on herbs in the ground and then double clicking to drink.

So I cant help but to wonder what CDPR or Konrad really want? do they want people to use potions a lot of times? thus making encounters not challenging at all as for action based gameplay? or are fights so hard that you cant even play the game without drinking potions?

People didnt hoard potions because they were limited, people did that because the game didnt offer enough benefits or rewards for using them, and auto-refilling isnt going to change that much, as well as the activation system which will make them more convenient and less risky but still, not that important.

Overall, my take is that the new potions in TW3, like I said in a very old post, arent going to be terrible nor amazing, the system is going to be very similar to the past games, except for TW1 with FCR, because so far it seems none of the defining aspects of the implementation are being changed greatly, just some superficial ones are getting tweaked, polished maybe, but nothing substantial.

Now It's too late to change things, but I think they would've avoided many problems if they had made the uses for potions less linear, and not binary. If you take potions to win fights, but that is something you can already do with your sword and signs, and additionally the game doesnt care if you use potions or signs, its no surprise people dont use potions for whatever reason.

 

[rotcevantys]

Honestly, I think the whole being able to metabolize your potions after drinking them at will is awesome. It definitely adds some fantasy immersion in the game. Gives the feel that a Witcher really is genetically different from normal people, being able to control metabolism. But I only have the question of, can we still drink more potions in the middle of a fight. What is the time it takes to drink a potion, is it still viable to make an emergency pot mid fight even though it can b risky? ?? Or is their a potion lockout when in big fights

 

[Solid_Altair]

Kind of makes my point.

"Analytical Players" are the kind of people who would experiment and use the system even if they had to re-brew everything. They are the people who understand what Alchemy means, and many of those people gain extra pleasure from the act of having to craft everything and consider it that enjoyable extra step of preparation rather than just slotting the correct infinite potion into your pockets.
Those are the kind of players that used and experimented both the Alchemy systems in the previous games, and having to re-brew or farm a few herbs never stopped them from doing that.

The new system is mostly designed to achieve things like stopping people from hoarding, and encouraging more folk in general to use Alchemy. Which if the Youtuber's is anything to go off, those kind of people are clearly just ignoring the system almost entirely anyway. Makes the big system change seem pretty bloody pointless to me.

I'd say your description is of a grindy player, not an analytical one. And "what alchemy means" was just a bad habbit of RPGs, that is fortunately fading away.

We are actually discussing two points. One is the ease of refilling potions (you still need alcohol, but it should be plenty). I think it's quite clear that you don't like this one and would prefer a system like Skyrim, where crafting more potions of the same type is just as hard as crafting the first one, which leads to grind... not skill, not choices, just boring repetition.

The other point that prevents against hoarding is a limited slots for potions you can use in a single fight. This way, you can't spam items against a boss. Since you can't use the all at once in the big challenges, hoarding becomes even further pointless. Do you like the slots limitation?

And as for the youtubers as examples, you gotta consider they barely had enough time to get the ingridients to craft/unlock the potions (Gopher's preview). Many of them were utter noobs who spammed attacks and barely used signs. An extensive use of potions will take some time happen in the game, both because players will need time to craft/unlock them and because many will focus on becoming familiar with swordplay and signs, first.

---------- Updated at 11:27 PM ----------

And speaking of alcohol (we're near Beltane after all, btw do you think CDPR will do something more for this occasion?), I hope they have reintroduced the concept of better quality and rarer alcohols necessary for the most powerful potions...

Check out Gopher's preview part 2. It seems we can spend mutagens we don't want, in order to make super-potions. I don't know if this applies to only craft/unlock or to refill, too.

I wouldn't like having better alcohols, or else we would hoard them. lol

The new system is fine. It's already been proven to work wonderfully, in Inquisition. I didn't use potions a lot on other games, but use them a lot in Inquisition. Problem solved.
_______

As for the discussion about using potions in every fight. I suppose it will be worth it if if saves you enough time to compensate for the time (and pause/break) of meditating. And I also see the option of using potions in consecutive easy fights, without meditating in between.