Oh, and one important information from the video - skill points can be gained from:
- Levelling up
- Places of power (you get the skill point and a buff - skill point only once, but you can come back for the buff multiple times)
- Some quests can also grant you skill points.
The skills and combat in Witcher 3 look very interesting, but the "equip" system really doesn't seem to serve a point. Why is it necessary to block off certain abilities in place of others? Especially when you can quickly switch these skills out for other skills in real time. Not only does this serve no point other than to increase tedium by needing to go between gameplay and the pause menu frequently, but the gating makes many of the skills seemingly pointless by comparison to more desirable alternatives.
For example, I have two sword techniques from the fast attack tree to select between for the purpose of equipping. One gives me the spinning cutting technique while the other increases my base attack by 5% (maxing at lets say 50% fully leveled) for just fast attacks. Why would I ever purchase or use the basic attack upgrade? We only get a very limited number of skill slots to use, and the weakest sword fighting mutagen in the game increases ALL of my sword attacks damage by 40% just by using 3 sword skills. I would be way better off selecting the fast active skill, the heavy attack active skill, and than an adrenaline buff to increase all my attack damage while giving me special techniques and effects in place of a petty single damage increase. The same problem comes up with the Sign intensification skills as the mutagens render them pointless by doing the same thing for EVERY sign instead of a specific one.
As it currently stands almost half the skills are completely redundant and grossly inferior to other abilities; which should become immediately apparent upon playing around with them. I don't understand how such an obvious problem made it into the final game.
If anyone cares to point out something I am missing or correct me, I would love to hear it. Because as it currently stands, this seems like a strange flaw in this otherwise jewel of a game.
I like the fact that you have to choose which skills to equip, it means you have to make tactical choices and find specific combinations that suit your style. It seems quite appealing to me.
What i don't like is that i can change them on the fly anywhere even during combat, as it was said yesterday on the live stream. I think meditation should at least be required for it.
I feel like your issue may be relevant if we started the game with all skills unlocked, but this isn't the case.
I don't have an issue with certain skills becoming redundant as better ones are unlocked, and think I'm going to enjoy the emphasis on setting a good build rather than becoming a walking tank with 50 active skills by the end.
I like the fact that you have to choose which skills to equip, it means you have to make tactical choices and find specific combinations that suit your style. It seems quite appealing to me.
What i don't like is that i can change them on the fly anywhere even during combat, as it was said yesterday on the live stream. I think meditation should at least be required for it.
I feel like your issue may be relevant if we started the game with all skills unlocked, but this isn't the case.
I don't have an issue with certain skills becoming redundant as better ones are unlocked, and think I'm going to enjoy the emphasis on setting a good build rather than becoming a walking tank with 50 active skills by the end.
You're still going to end up as a tank. Just one that has to switch out a sign's or equipment's upgrade for another occasionally. It's not really creating builds, but adding another layer of tedium to your item management.
Well i guess it all comes down to what you prefer to use. In this case you can have either a better fast attack or that whirlwind attack when you hold down the button, or you can have them both at the cost of leaving something else out. It's not bad i think considering that the points we will have at max level wont be enough to max everything. Far from it since it's one skill point each level i believe.
As to inferior skills, there will always be skills that don't appeal to people but i am sure everything can be useful. I do not believe that CDPR would have made 3-4 good skills and the rest useless.
I like the fact that you have to choose which skills to equip, it means you have to make tactical choices and find specific combinations that suit your style. It seems quite appealing to me.
What i don't like is that i can change them on the fly anywhere even during combat, as it was said yesterday on the live stream. I think meditation should at least be required for it.
I feel like there must have been some misunderstanding.
It is in fact NOT possible to switch out skills mid-combat. Players will have to get out of combat state before they can switch equipped skills. Same, incidentally, goes for equipped items.
Once you are outside combat (so without any monster still targeting you), you can do these things. In this case, you could also meditate of course, so the effect is more or less the same.
I feel like there must have been some misunderstanding.
It is in fact NOT possible to switch out skills mid-combat. Players will have to get out of combat state before they can switch equipped skills. Same, incidentally, goes for equipped items.
Once you are outside combat (so without any monster still targeting you), you can do these things. In this case, you could also meditate of course, so the effect is more or less the same.
Thanks for clearing that up, that is great. I was certain i heard Miles talking about it but with the sound being weird sometimes during the stream i must have heard wrong.
I feel like there must have been some misunderstanding.
It is in fact NOT possible to switch out skills mid-combat. Players will have to get out of combat state before they can switch equipped skills. Same, incidentally, goes for equipped items.
Once you are outside combat (so without any monster still targeting you), you can do these things. In this case, you could also meditate of course, so the effect is more or less the same.
Is there is any incentive to ever equip the pure "stat" boosting skills? Do they provide some additional type of damage or effect that the macro increase from Mutagens don't?
Actually I was hoping you could switch skills mid-combat, so that you can adapt to an evolving situation. I like the idea of not being able to use eveything at once, but it doesn't make much sense for Geralt to just completely forget how to do a cleave or a whirlwind for instance. Some "changing stance" animation or something that makes you vulnerable when you change would have been a good compromise I think (something similar to switching swords, it's not something you want to do regularly in the heat of a fight but you can, especially if you take some distance first).
Hopefully, in most cases you will be able to spot your foes before they target you and pick your skills accordingly.
Fast skills: Muscle Memory. (5) Damage in fast attacks +5% and Adrenaline +1% per point (assume others scale similarly, though additional effects per point possible too). Precision Cutting. (5) Critical +2%, damage +15%, Adrenaline +1% (from lvl 8+) Mill. (5) Prolonged attack on all enemies around. Consumes vigour, then adrenaline. +1% Adrenaline. (from lvl 20+) Mutilation. (5) Causes bleeding 25pts per second, 5 seconds. +1% Adrenaline. (from lvl 30+)
Strong Skills: Strength training. (5) Damage from strong attacks +5%. Adrenaline +1% Crushing. (5) Critical hit +2%, Damage +15%, Adrenaline +1% (from lvl 8+) Unweaving? (5) Increased damage in proportion to consumed stamina. Ignore defences, increase criticals by 10%. Adrenaline increases damage by 100% per point. +1% Adrenaline. (from lvl 20+) Staggering Blow. (5) Reduces resistance to damage by 5%. Adrenaline +1% (from lvl 30+)
Defence: Bounce. (3) Parrying also permits deflection of arrows. +1% Adrenaline. Footwork. (5)Reduces damage taken while dodging by 20%. +1% Adrenaline. (from lvl 8+) Riposte. (3) Another attack after a successful counterattack inflicts damage increased by 30 % per point.+1% Adrenaline. (from lvl 20+) Murderous Precision. (2) Each point of Adrenaline gives a +1% of an instant kill. +1% Adrenaline. (from lvl 30+)
Ranged: Reflex. (3) Slows time by 15% per point during aiming. +1% Adrenaline. Cold Blood. (5) Each shot increases Adrenaline by 0.04 points. +1% Adrenaline. (from lvl 8+) Anatomy. (5) Increases critical hit chance by 15%. +1% Adrenaline. (from lvl 20+) Sore point. (5) Critical hit disables monster specials for 5 seconds. +1% Adrenaline (from lvl 30+)
Battle Trance: Focus. (5) The decrease in adrenaline after receiving damage is reduced by 20%. + 1% Adrenaline.
??
?? The shedding of anger. ( 5) Enables releasing signs of highest level and increases power of signs 25%. Requires 3 points of Adrenaline, which is used up. +1% Adrenaline. (from lvl 30+)
Alchemy Tree: (Each point increases potion duration +5%) Potion Brewing: Increased tolerance. (5 ) Increases tolerance to potions by 1% Renewal. (5) Each ingested dose of elixir restores 5 % of the maximum vitality. (from lvl 8+) Delayed decomposition. (5) The effects of potions does not disappear until toxicity has dropped to 90 % of the maximum. (from lvl 20+) Side effects. (5) Taking a potion gives 20% chance to activate the effect of a random potion, without additional toxicity. (from lvl 28+)
Oil Preparation: Poisoned blade. (5) With oil on the blade there is at least a 10 % chance of poisoning the enemy. Chances increased with higher qualities of oils. Deterrence. (5) It gives an additional 5% of defence against monsters. (parrying?) (from lvl 8+) Fixative. (3) Oil duration increased by 33% more blows before it needs renewing. (from lvl 20+) Hunter's instinct. (5) With full adrenaline the damage inflicted by a critical hit on a monster susceptible to oil is increased by 20%.
Bomb Production: Custom throw. (3) Time dilation while targeting a thrown bomb becomes larger by 15%. Pyrotechnic. (5) A bomb, which normally does no damage, in addition to it's normal effects inflicts 30 damage. (from lvl 8+) Optimization. (5) Increases the maximum number of bombs in every pocket by 1. (from lvl 20+) Cluster Bomb. (5) After the detonation the bomb splits into separate exploding fragments. The number of fragments 2 (increases per point?). (from lvl 28+)
Mutagens: Acquired Resistance. (3) For each known alchemical recipe elixir tolerance increases by 1 Transformation of tissues. (5) Each elixir increases the maximum vitality by 200 for the duration of effect (??) (from lvl 8+) Synergy. (5) Increases bonuses guaranteed by the mutagen placed in the mutagen slots by 10%. (from lvl 20+) Adaptation. (5) Increases duration of potions by 10 %
Trials of Grasses: Clarity. (3) When a witcher is poisoned by potions, during a counterattack the enemy is slowed down in time . Endurance to pain. (5) Increases maximum vitality by 10 %, if poisoning potions exceeds safe level. (from lvl 8+) Fast Metabolism. (5) Toxicity of potions falls faster by 1 point per second. (from lvl 20+) Blood shawl. (5) When the witcher is poisoned by potions, each killed opponent increases the chance of a critical hit on the next by 10 % (from lvl 28+)
Utility:(all single point skills, no level limits) Circadian rhythm. During the day regeneration of vitality is increased by 10. After dusk stamina regeneration per second in a fight is increased by 1. Survival Instinct. Increases the maximum vitality by 500. Cat School Techniques. Each light armour piece adds +25% critical damage and 5% for normal damage from quick blows. Griffon School Techniques. Each element of medium and low gear adds 5% to the sign force and 5% for the regeneration of stamina. Bear School Techniques. Each element of heavy armour adds + 5 % to maximum vitality and 5% to damage from strong blows. Steady Shot. Crossbow does 25% more damage ?? ?? Focusing. Points gained in adrenaline can enhance not only damage inflicted by weapons, but also the power of signs. Metabolic Control. +30 tolerance to Elixirs.
(Signs not yet viewed).
Some things are less than totally clear. I've made a best guess at the meaning of some, but they could be intended as something else. There are also a few which weren't shown, including nearly the whole Signs tree.
Bit worried about how to make a "well rounded" witcher with only 12 slots, when there are so many "basic" skills... and (probably) over 240 points of skill tree... and around 60 levels.
All will come clear once the game is in our hands, but I'm puzzling what sort of build order would make any kind of sense.
Where I have "lvl", this is both the number of points needed in the tree, and as far as I can tell the minimum number of additional levels needed to obtain that skill *if all the points are spent in that tree*. Thus with 60 levels, maximum, it would only be possible to gain tier 3 in 3 skill trees, or tier 4 in two, with single points in these higher levels... reduce that by one tree if you want lots of skill points in higher tiers. (Some special events/items/elixirs may grant skill points without level of course ~ there is precedent for that in previous titles... so it may not be quite that tight...)
And here I thought we will get a more "active" skill tree as CD Project Red had been stating all the time. They were all like "skills have very little / way less to do with stats and will rather add active skills to your repertoire". Still a lot of "stat-skills" in there IMO.
Anyway, I'm actually glad that it is that way considering that I could not have imagined the balancing and stat-increases another way. If it was armor- and weapon -only stat increase it would have been really unbalanced in general.
On the other hand I do at the same time NOT like those stat-skills because it means we will actively have to choose up to 12 skills to use at any given time, meaning we will have to make decisions between stat-increasing skills and skills that only add "active" moves to the table, which can be hard to balance I imagine.
I am still not really confident in the system and the low number of active skill slots. I mean for 50 levels or so and more than 70 available skills you can only choose 12 in the end? That's only about 6% of the available skills that we can use at any given time, and then only if we are leveled up.
I understand that "upgraded skills" means that we do not have to replace skill X Level 1 with skill X Level 2 since it just ADDS to the stats or adds additional effects to the skill, so we can basically say "I want more sign intensity" and can "equip" the sign intensity skill, and if we level it up the sign intensity added will just INCREASE without taking away any skill slots. On the other hand, if they say "we have more than 70 skills in our tree" do they count 70 individual skills or do they count all the levels of one skill to that number (each skill level counting as 1 skill in this "we got more than 70 skills")?
If you wonder about the numbers, those are just guesses based on comments I read before, the "70 skills" is surely not accurate but I think I heard something along the lines that there are more than 70 skills, Geralt can level up to level 50 or so and that we can - in the end - only choose 12 skills to have "active" (in the beginning only 1 or 2).
It kind of seems really unbalanced to me should "more than 70 skills" really mean 70 individual skills, as in each skill being different and having an unique ability or stat increase to add.
It just seems weird.
Or do I somehow understand this skill tree wrong? Maybe someone can explain it at lenght, with examples.....
What are the skills?
How many levles can skills have?
Does "70 skills" mean 70 individual ones or 70 including each level of a skill (Sign intensity [1/3], Sign intensity [2/3], etc) counted as 1?
If 70 means individual skills, how are we supposed to choose between them?
How do we unlock new "slots"?
Are there active and passive skills (skills that need no slots to be "active") or just the 12 active ones?
If I have skills of the same color what effect has that?
How do skills work with mutagens and what is the difference between skill mutagens and "mutagenic potions" and decoctions?
If I do NOT have skills of the same color/tree what does that mean (no boni?)?
What does it mean if I have skills of only 1 color in all the slots of one set versus having only 2 of the same color and the rest having another color?
Can you give examples?
At the moment it seems a lot like not really creating a "build" of a character as is tradition in RPGs but rather having a small set of "quick abilities" you can have like in "normal" open world games such as Shadow of Mordor" where you do not choose a specific "path" but can change on the fly. Doesn't that eliminate the "hard decisions" within the skill tree, since you can switch as long as you are not in combat? Seems rather too easy to me. And if skill points from places of power are lost if you "respec", does that not discourage changing skill slots? Or is that another form of "respec" (as in resetting every bought skill in your entire tree).
Also, if we have only 12 skills, are 12 enough to really have a powerful and capable character worthy of Geralt? (I mean in the last games we had TONS of skills having all kinds of effects, I myself loved being a "hybrid" with signs as main tree, and swordsmanship and alchemy equally spend. Can I still do that with this 12-avtive-skills system? I want a fighter that is balanced and capable in a fight, adaptive and reasonably balanced, a real Geralt as we had him in the last games.
Not a guy who is only good at signs and then the next fight is only good in swordsmanship and the next fight is all about the potions while sucking with swords and signs. That is kind of very strange and against lore (or let's rather say against immersion of the role-playing) to me.
So my questions is, if I would NEVER change my skills slots. Let's assume I reach the point where I got... Idk.... 6 skill slots (so the half) and I decided upon a certain set of skills, and I would level them up accordingly (trying to get the maximum level of those particular skills ( [3/3] or [5/5] )) and each time I'd get a new slot I would add a skill and keep it forever, for the whole game, and I would choose a hybrid skill set, so majority of signs (aard, igni, quen, intensity, etc.), and equally swordsmanship and alchemy for the rest, a real hybrid build. If I had those 6 skill slots and never changed the skills I already choose, is there a way to successfully go through this game, having a fair chance of beating all enemies (with skill of course, but it should not be "almost impossible" in a sense that you feel that the game is not made for a not-changing skill tree if you know what I mean) and keeping those skills you chose? Or does the game REQUIRE me to change my skills on the run regularly ("require" as in "the game is intended that way and one can feel that the game is not made for a not-changing skill set").
Please, someone enlighten me, explain that skill tree to me properly and answer the latter (bold) question I asked. Thank you very much in advance.
And here I thought we will get a more "active" skill tree as CD Project Red had been stating all the time. They were all like "skills have very little / way less to do with stats and will rather add active skills to your repertoire". Still a lot of "stat-skills" in there IMO.
Anyway, I'm actually glad that it is that way considering that I could not have imagined the balancing and stat-increases another way. If it was armor- and weapon -only stat increase it would have been really unbalanced in general.
On the other hand I do at the same time NOT like those stat-skills because it means we will actively have to choose up to 12 skills to use at any given time, meaning we will have to make decisions between stat-increasing skills and skills that only add "active" moves to the table, which can be hard to balance I imagine.
I am still not really confident in the system and the low number of active skill slots. I mean for 50 levels or so and more than 70 available skills you can only choose 12 in the end? That's only about 6% of the available skills that we can use at any given time, and then only if we are leveled up.
I understand that "upgraded skills" means that we do not have to replace skill X Level 1 with skill X Level 2 since it just ADDS to the stats or adds additional effects to the skill, so we can basically say "I want more sign intensity" and can "equip" the sign intensity skill, and if we level it up the sign intensity added will just INCREASE without taking away any skill slots. On the other hand, if they say "we have more than 70 skills in our tree" do they count 70 individual skills or do they count all the levels of one skill to that number (each skill level counting as 1 skill in this "we got more than 70 skills")?
If you wonder about the numbers, those are just guesses based on comments I read before, the "70 skills" is surely not accurate but I think I heard something along the lines that there are more than 70 skills, Geralt can level up to level 50 or so and that we can - in the end - only choose 12 skills to have "active" (in the beginning only 1 or 2).
It kind of seems really unbalanced to me should "more than 70 skills" really mean 70 individual skills, as in each skill being different and having an unique ability or stat increase to add.
It just seems weird.
Or do I somehow understand this skill tree wrong? Maybe someone can explain it at lenght, with examples.....
What are the skills?
How many levles can skills have?
Does "70 skills" mean 70 individual ones or 70 including each level of a skill (Sign intensity [1/3], Sign intensity [2/3], etc) counted as 1?
If 70 means individual skills, how are we supposed to choose between them?
How do we unlock new "slots"?
Are there active and passive skills (skills that need no slots to be "active") or just the 12 active ones?
If I have skills of the same color what effect has that?
How do skills work with mutagens and what is the difference between skill mutagens and "mutagenic potions" and decoctions?
If I do NOT have skills of the same color/tree what does that mean (no boni?)?
What does it mean if I have skills of only 1 color in all the slots of one set versus having only 2 of the same color and the rest having another color?
Can you give examples?
At the moment it seems a lot like not really creating a "build" of a character as is tradition in RPGs but rather having a small set of "quick abilities" you can have like in "normal" open world games such as Shadow of Mordor" where you do not choose a specific "path" but can change on the fly. Doesn't that eliminate the "hard decisions" within the skill tree, since you can switch as long as you are not in combat? Seems rather too easy to me. And if skill points from places of power are lost if you "respec", does that not discourage changing skill slots? Or is that another form of "respec" (as in resetting every bought skill in your entire tree).
Also, if we have only 12 skills, are 12 enough to really have a powerful and capable character worthy of Geralt? (I mean in the last games we had TONS of skills having all kinds of effects, I myself loved being a "hybrid" with signs as main tree, and swordsmanship and alchemy equally spend. Can I still do that with this 12-avtive-skills system? I want a fighter that is balanced and capable in a fight, adaptive and reasonably balanced, a real Geralt as we had him in the last games.
Not a guy who is only good at signs and then the next fight is only good in swordsmanship and the next fight is all about the potions while sucking with swords and signs. That is kind of very strange and against lore (or let's rather say against immersion of the role-playing) to me.
So my questions is, if I would NEVER change my skills slots. Let's assume I reach the point where I got... Idk.... 6 skill slots (so the half) and I decided upon a certain set of skills, and I would level them up accordingly (trying to get the maximum level of those particular skills ( [3/3] or [5/5] )) and each time I'd get a new slot I would add a skill and keep it forever, for the whole game, and I would choose a hybrid skill set, so majority of signs (aard, igni, quen, intensity, etc.), and equally swordsmanship and alchemy for the rest, a real hybrid build. If I had those 6 skill slots and never changed the skills I already choose, is there a way to successfully go through this game, having a fair chance of beating all enemies (with skill of course, but it should not be "almost impossible" in a sense that you feel that the game is not made for a not-changing skill tree if you know what I mean) and keeping those skills you chose? Or does the game REQUIRE me to change my skills on the run regularly ("require" as in "the game is intended that way and one can feel that the game is not made for a not-changing skill set").
Please, someone enlighten me, explain that skill tree to me properly and answer the latter (bold) question I asked. Thank you very much in advance.
To be honest, this is something I'm hoping will have modders chomping at the bit to change. A mod to increase the number of slots for skills, combined with a mod for higher difficulty (or perhaps even just using a higher vanilla difficulty if that would work for you) to counter the increased power you would have and balance the fights...
As long as I can max out all skills, and THEN pick from them, I'm not bothered really. And I dont see why that wouldnt be the case, the number you can use at one time is restricted anyway...
Though again, hopefully modders will fix that...along with fixing it so we need herbs for potions again. I'll wait and see, but I dont like the sound of this alcohol system, I want a reason to collect herbs throughout the game, not just on the rare occasion when I find a new potion recipe :/
With open world in game it's a balance issue. They can't stop players from grindig EXP so in order to balance game they've made this skill tree. So you can't lvl up Geralt so he will kill everyone with single blow. Yes, many don't like such restriction but in world where monster are not adjustet to player lvl it's kinda good choice. So even if you will decide to grind on NPC or monsters you game still will chalange you because you can't benefit from all skills you have learned.
Given the limited slots you will probably want to max your skills. So if you count 70 skill points available (level 60 + points found int he world) and an average of 4 points necessary to max a skill (most are 5 or 3, with a few at 1), that's very roughly 18 skills you can max (out of 70 available). So basically with 12 slots you still 2/3 of your skills available at any point, not that bad.
But I guess spreading your points to be more versatile will also be an option...
70 skills.
20 in weapons, 20 in alchemy, 20 in signs, 10 in utility.
There is some uncertainty about both the total population of skill points to fill the tree, and the available pool of points.
Weapons - 87-91 pts
Alchemy - 92 pts
Signs ~ 60+ pts (haven't yet looked at the new video for the skill set)
Utility 10 pts
Maxing out seems unlikely tho; 60 skill points from levels leave 190 skill points to places of power and quests. I don't think there'll be that many places of power, maybe quests will give most of the max amount we can get.
And 12 slots. It'll be hard to choose. Experimenting will be fun. Will certainly be leaving some combinations for following playthroughs.
