[Spoilers]Lets recap all three games and discuss Alvin [Spoilers]

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[Spoilers]Lets recap all three games and discuss Alvin [Spoilers]

Keep in mind all three games are supposed to be one story as if told in a book. And this is NOT a knock on the games.

The Witcher 1

1) Geralt appears alive after everyone thought he was dead.
2) Geralt runs into almost all of his old friends
3) A boy with elder blood appears named Alvin from chapter 1 - rest of the game, turns out to be the big bad boss of the entire game (The Witcher 1)
4) Bandits raid Kaer Morhen in order to steal the witcher mutagens and potions in order to make new Witchers accept without free will and modified.
5) The Witcher dismantles Salamandra.
6) Geralt only remembers a little bit of his past.

Questions why was Alvin (The Flaming Rose Grand Master) even intended in any of this story? Why was he so important? Though he was linked to Elder Blood there was really not reason to have him at all. What made him stand out so much that The King of the Wild Hunt stopped looking for Ciri in full compacity in order to send him wraith form over to try to collect him as he lie dying at the end of the game as an adult?

The Witcher 2

1) Geralt is in Prison because of the last events that took place between the first and second game.
2) Elder Blood is only mentioned in books throughout the entirety of the game. It plays no important roll.
3) The Wild Hunt no long seeks after Geralt and has vanished.
4) Geralt fights a Dragon and either undoes the spell or kills it or leaves it be to heal later (we never see a conclusion to this in the third game, though one of the endings shows an option for the dragon to be healed, however if you didn't and didn't kill her the option was never carried over into the third game to heal Saskia).
5) You always end up with Triss at the end even if you don't "save her".

The Witcher 3

1) The wild hunt has returned????
2) Ciri now plays a part in the game yet she was never mentioned but one time in the Witcher 2 and no where else (in a flash back, that is if you even make the right choices to get that scene unlocked).
3) Shani is missing
4) Most of the quests do not tell the story of the Witcher, it's more a do as you want game as if the story is done, appart from the 5-10 hour main story arc (yes there are people completing it in that time or less).

So basically my question is this, Why was Alvin so important that they made him the big bad guy of the entire first game, and yet he has no mention afterward in any of the games?

The only Mention that Alvin gets is on the Tree in the Elf guys secret laboratory north of Undvik (if you went there). His name is in the tree next to Ciri's Tree yet not connected accept down at the root of the 6 elf-human hybrid children that came from Ithleen the original Elder Blood that was supposed to mate with another 100% pure elf Elder Blood to create the most powerful in the universe being. But Ithleen betrayed the idea and went with a human instead. Thus Ciri's line and Alvin's line though two different branches. Yet they never mention that "Oh remember Alvin, so that is why they were after him." or anything like that and it's only been a year. How do you forget a child you were teaching in less than a year?

Also how is it that the King of the Hunt has Elder Blood and can teleport anywhere at will (during last fight) to any planet any time and yet he still needs Ciri and her blood? What was he going to do take her virginity and get ultimate power? Was this a rape hunt? What was this? It's never explained. Also to note The Elf guy helping Ciri said that The King of the Wild Hunt could not teleport like Ciri because he didn't have elder blood, who can do it at will, yet we see in the final battle that he teleports Geralt and himself to several locations at will, even back to his how world. So kinda contradictory.

So basically how does Alvin stack into this as a prime essential? And what does Elder Blood have to do with anything? (yes yes I know that he doesn't have the power to transport entire armys to earth to take it over because the white frost is attacking his planet at the next conjunction but still he wasn't even supposed to be able to teleport himself anywhere he wanted because he didn't know how (remember the quest were you go through teleporters to find the general guy of the elves? During that dialogue between planets and time The elf guy says that the King of the Wild Hunt can't teleport at will because he doesn't have Elder Blood and that is why he needs Ciri's blood is because he needs it to teleport at will anywhere and to teleport more importantly the entire army in one teleportation to the planet Geralt is from. Yet the contradictions come forward in the last battle where he clearly can teleport at will). As I always say if you're going to do it do it right the first time or not at all in every point.

Any thoughts?
 
How does Alvin fit into the story? Not at all.
tw1 was nothing more then a {fan contribution? Im missing a word here} towards the book.
They took many things from the book and made their own stuff with it (Alvin is exactly a copy of Ciri, which is simply impossible, then the Lady of the Lake reference and many more), with tw2 they tried to avoid too much deviant stuff but it still had not much in common with the book, except the names and the world in general. And with tw3 they try to go back to the roots, stay more true to the book (which is also way many Triss-Lovers are upset).

So you can easily forget tw1+2 except for the general story.


Edit: in the books the Story about the WIld Hunt and the White Frost and why they all want Ciri is different from the game. The problem is, that Sapkowski never really explained everything, instead he left many things open ended - so much room for interpretation here.

The Game just says, that the White Frost is some kind of (magic) phenomenon that apparently onyl Ciri can destroy, thats why the WIld Hunt is after her.
 
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How does Alvin fit into the story? Not at all.
tw1 was nothing more then a {fan contribution? Im missing a word here} towards the book.
They took many things from the book and made their own stuff with it (Alvin is exactly a copy of Ciri, which is simply impossible, then the Lady of the Lake reference and many more), with tw2 they tried to avoid too much deviant stuff but it still had not much in common with the book, except the names and the world in general. And with tw3 they try to go back to the roots, stay more true to the book (which is also way many Triss-Lovers are upset).

So you can easily forget tw1+2 except for the general story.


Edit: in the books the Story about the WIld Hunt and the White Frost and why they all want Ciri is different from the game. The problem is, that Sapkowski never really explained everything, instead he left many things open ended - so much room for interpretation here.

The Game just says, that the White Frost is some kind of (magic) phenomenon that apparently onyl Ciri can destroy, thats why the WIld Hunt is after her.

Yeah and thats why TW3 is a terrible sequel to the games and final chapter of the trilogy
its sadly more a sequel of the books, why they decided to suddenly pander to book fans is beyond me though..

Anyway might explaining the reasons the Wild hunt wants Ciri in the books and how is the White frost different ? (it can only be better since in TW3 it was pretty bad and half assed)
 
Short Version: At one point the White Frost is explained as nothing else but an (natural) Ice Age. But then again, nothing is certain here, it has never been explained completely.
Ciri has the Power to jump through time and space, and the Wild Hunt (and many others actually) want Ciri (or more precise: her child) to open a Great Portal so that everyone from the doomed world can move to another world (like a huge Stargate Exodus).
Then again, this never happens in the books, since they end before any matters are resolved, so nothing is really certain.


PS: i like it that they pander to the book fans, I wouldn't have bought the game otherwise
 
How does Alvin fit into the story? Not at all.
tw1 was nothing more then a {fan contribution? Im missing a word here} towards the book..

I think the word you are looking for is fanfiction.

Alvin, yeah, he was Ciri-reincarnated. As was Triss a mix between Yen and herself.

From what I remember the only events that carry out and have a degree of significance in W3 are the fact that Geralt became Foltest bodyguard and the fact that the formula to create witchers was stolen.

The events of W2 carry over to a greater degree. the memory restoration, the assassination of kings previous to the invasion, Triss and Geralt's past, Phillipa's eyes. Other small bits that I don't remember. Some don't or haven't been seen yet, like Iorveth, Saskia.

Incidentally if Yennefer had died in a Nilfgardian dungeon the emperor would have still summoned Geralt to find Ciri, Geralt would have agreed and the overall story would not have changed that much.
Iirc it was the emperor who first got news that Ciri was alive and thus released the sorcerer. In fact if Yennefer hadn't been around, the emperor would have contacted Geralt much sooner and a lot of bad stuff might have been avoided.
 
When i met Alvin in the Witcher 1 that was weird. Who is this child? Maybe the Ciri's son or her grandson? How you know the alvin's name is in the Genealogical tree? In TW3 there's a note written for A (Alvin) to Geralt. Talking about the Wild hunt and his fail, trying to defeat it. For me, CDP make a mistake creating this character.

And one of some mistake that upset me was this " it was the emperor who first got news that Ciri was alive" Geralt always got dreams and nightmares about Ciri and vice versa. The Prologue was the demonstration. How Ciri knew about Geralt was part of the Wild Hunt? Dreams... As a fan of the books you know that is impossible that the emperor was the first, But for the plot of the game you know that it was necessary.
 
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When i met Alvin in the Witcher 1 that was weird. Who is this child? Maybe the Ciri's son or her grandson? How you know the alvin's name is in the Genealogical tree? In TW3 there's a note written for A (Alvin) to Geralt. Talking about the Wild hunt and his fail, trying to defeat it. For me, CDP make a mistake creating this character.

And one of some mistake that upset me was this " it was the emperor who first got news that Ciri was alive" Geralt always got dreams and nightmares about Ciri and vice versa. The Prologue was the demonstration. How Ciri knew about Geralt was part of the Wild Hunt? Dreams... As a fan of the books you know that is impossible that the emperor was the first, But for the plot of the game you know that it was necessary.

Well, I only read half the books, liked them though I came into this universe through the games.

I'm curious, why do you call it a mistake? Geralt suspected Ciri might have been in danger because of the dreams, but he's just one man and as far as he knew she was in another world. The emperor, however, has access to a vast network of spies (which I hate when they are played against me in Gwent) and has a need to find her as well. So it is logical that Emhyr would get the news earlier.
 
Why Alvin is necessary

Alvin is the villain of the The Witcher and he's a perfectly serviceable one. He's also one which fits the Witcher's mythology extremely well in that he's probably a cousin of Ciri a few times removed, perhaps a illegitimate grandson or granddaughter of one of the Cintran royal family. Either way, he represents a number of things which are important to the greater mythology of the Witcher universe.

1. The Prophecy of Ithline is one which is absolutely true. Alvin takes us to the future with his time-travel abilities and demonstrates that the world will be destroyed by the new Ice Age. It's not a false prophecy but one which is coming and is going to happen soon.

2. He demonstrates what Ciri has the potential to become. As a self-taught magician, Alvin possesses the power to conquer Temeria and form a massive power-base which, unopposed, would have conquered the North.

3. He makes the storyline about Ciri less of a fantastic one than a scientific one. Breeding a super-being like the Kwtiz Haderach doesn't just create a single Chosen One but an entire bloodline of people with Eldar blood and exceptional magical abilities. Alvin is there to demonstrate that Ciri could have been born under exceptionally different circumstances.

4. Alvin demonstrates that if Ciri doesn't do something about the White Frost the world is doomed. It is her responsibility to save the world and he can't do it--he has a plan but without him, there is NO plan.

What is Alvin's greater role in the saga?

He doesn't have one because he's a single video game villain, A False Dragon to quote the Wheel of Time, and he failed in his task.

But he adds dramatic weight to Ciri's story as well as highlights Geralt's desire to have a child and be with the woman he loved.
 
Alvin is the villain of the The Witcher and he's a perfectly serviceable one. He's also one which fits the Witcher's mythology extremely well in that he's probably a cousin of Ciri a few times removed, perhaps a illegitimate grandson or granddaughter of one of the Cintran royal family. Either way, he represents a number of things which are important to the greater mythology of the Witcher universe.

1. The Prophecy of Ithline is one which is absolutely true. Alvin takes us to the future with his time-travel abilities and demonstrates that the world will be destroyed by the new Ice Age. It's not a false prophecy but one which is coming and is going to happen soon.

2. He demonstrates what Ciri has the potential to become. As a self-taught magician, Alvin possesses the power to conquer Temeria and form a massive power-base which, unopposed, would have conquered the North.

3. He makes the storyline about Ciri less of a fantastic one than a scientific one. Breeding a super-being like the Kwtiz Haderach doesn't just create a single Chosen One but an entire bloodline of people with Eldar blood and exceptional magical abilities. Alvin is there to demonstrate that Ciri could have been born under exceptionally different circumstances.

4. Alvin demonstrates that if Ciri doesn't do something about the White Frost the world is doomed. It is her responsibility to save the world and he can't do it--he has a plan but without him, there is NO plan.

What is Alvin's greater role in the saga?

He doesn't have one because he's a single video game villain, A False Dragon to quote the Wheel of Time, and he failed in his task.

But he adds dramatic weight to Ciri's story as well as highlights Geralt's desire to have a child and be with the woman he loved.

Very interesting points. This needs to be mentioned in the game by Geralt and by other characters so the players get a better feeling of the last sequence.
 
But yes, I think it's relatively okay Geralt doesn't like to talk about Alvin.

"Hey Ciri, I adopted one of your relatives while you were gone. I screwed up, though, and had to kill him. So, uh....how's you?"

---------- Updated at 05:49 AM ----------

Very interesting points. This needs to be mentioned in the game by Geralt and by other characters so the players get a better feeling of the last sequence.

On a more serious note, I think they were cutting down on references to past games for new players. Which is irritating because there's no reason NOT to discuss Alvin, the Order of the Flaming Rose, Iorveth, and others.
 
But yes, I think it's relatively okay Geralt doesn't like to talk about Alvin.

"Hey Ciri, I adopted one of your relatives while you were gone. I screwed up, though, and had to kill him. So, uh....how's you?"

---------- Updated at 05:49 AM ----------



On a more serious note, I think they were cutting down on references to past games for new players. Which is irritating because there's no reason NOT to discuss Alvin, the Order of the Flaming Rose, Iorveth, and others.

Well, if anything it's for newer players that these references and explanations should be around, so they can at least be told about what happened. Or like they did in DA they can add an NPC that sells W1 and W2 in Novigrad.
 
You get a Letter from Alvin explaining some things in TW3 so he does exists. But anyway I think you should look at the game not as one continuous Novel but rather three "short" stories that just happen to be set after on another. THey play in completely different (with the exception of the palace in vizima and Kaer Morhen) parts of the Kingdoms and the only combining feature are Geralt and his closest friends
 
Short Version: At one point the White Frost is explained as nothing else but an (natural) Ice Age. But then again, nothing is certain here, it has never been explained completely.
Ciri has the Power to jump through time and space, and the Wild Hunt (and many others actually) want Ciri (or more precise: her child) to open a Great Portal so that everyone from the doomed world can move to another world (like a huge Stargate Exodus).
Then again, this never happens in the books, since they end before any matters are resolved, so nothing is really certain.


PS: i like it that they pander to the book fans, I wouldn't have bought the game otherwise

Why? Didn't you like TW1+TW2?
 
You get a Letter from Alvin explaining some things in TW3 so he does exists. But anyway I think you should look at the game not as one continuous Novel but rather three "short" stories that just happen to be set after on another. THey play in completely different (with the exception of the palace in vizima and Kaer Morhen) parts of the Kingdoms and the only combining feature are Geralt and his closest friends

Really? Where at and what does it say?
 
The Book Vendor at Hierachs Square on the other side of the Kingfisher Inn gives you a quest to find it in his shop, but i can't remember what it says
 
Why? Didn't you like TW1+TW2?
I liked the games in general, but what I hated, was their great distance to the books, simple as that.
And Alvin: I am not saying he is useless for the games, after all they had to fit him in somehow after tw1 to make the games somewhat consistent. But Alvin as he is should not exist. (in the books you have several pages where the lodge of sorceres discuss this topic very explicitly, (in fact it turns out they had a hand in manipulation the elder blood in form of basically "who fucks who", which is interessting because
when Geralt/Ciri/Yen are in Avalac'h's Lab, and Ciri ask Yen if she had something to to with it ( while looking and the genealogical tree) and Yen , hesitantly say no - which is a Lie)
so there is no room for someone else, also why would everyone be after CIri, when there is another child?)
 
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When i played TW1 for the first time,i thought he was Ciri's child with Galahad,but now it's clear,that he wasn't.I guess he was one of the carriers of Lara's gene,so he and Ciri were probably related in some way.
 
I liked the games in general, but what I hated, was their great distance to the books, simple as that.
And Alvin: I am not saying he is useless for the games, after all they had to fit him in somehow after tw1 to make the games somewhat consistent. But Alvin as he is should not exist. (in the books you have several pages where the lodge of sorceres discuss this topic very explicitly, so there is no room for someone else, also why would everyone be after CIri, when there is another child?

The Lodge of Sorceresses shouldn't be trusted if they confirm water is wet.

Alvin is also not born for much of Ciri's life.

He's like ten years younger than her.
 
The Lodge of Sorceresses shouldn't be trusted if they confirm water is wet.

Alvin is also not born for much of Ciri's life.

He's like ten years younger than her.
They didn'T explain that so somewhat else, but discussing it in their own ranks, so no false information here.
Even as a baby, Alvin would have been of interest to everyone who knows about his lineage.
Believe me, Alvin has lore-wise, no place in the story. I hardly doubt they planned the games to be a triology from the beginning, but when they did, they had to fit in everything they came up so far, which in my opinion is the reason why they changed the White Frost in tw3, so they can make it more consitent to what they had before. (which is absolutely ok for the games, mind you, I'm just saying that Alvin originally doesn't fit in).
 
Questions why was Alvin (The Flaming Rose Grand Master) even intended in any of this story?
He should not be here, all of the Elder Blood descendants was known, as they all was breed by sorcerers for a long time. Even children with a small part of Lara Dorren's genes was known and carefully studied.

What was he going to do take her virginity and get ultimate power?
It was believed, that in their world will be a disaster, which will lead to the apocalypse. As Nimue (in The Lady of The Lake) said, the white frost is the natural disaster, that will lead to some sort of an Ice Age (I see the resemblance of a global warming thing there), which will lead to the death of the most population of the witcher world. It will be after 3000 years or so, as she (and other sorcerers) counted. Ciri's child, as everybody believes, if she will breed with someone with a Lara Dorren genes, will be very powerful, and will lead all the people of the witcher world to the new place, safe from frost. The Ciri herself did matter only as a genetical material, because everybody believes that she will not have enough power to do so (we do not know if they are right or wrong, because she never tried to move a bunch of people from one world to another, only herself, Kelpie, Geralt and Yen). So in that case Ciri can not "fight" White Frost, as you can not fight snow, or heat, or global warming with a sword. The elves wanted her genetic descendants to open the gates to other worlds to conquer other worlds, and for one, escape white frost when it will be a real threat. Vilgefortz believed, that with her genetics and his magic he will become god, the Lodge just wanted her child to be their ticket to the control of all North plus it will be easier to breed Elder Blood descendants if they will be under their noses. That's how it was told in the books, which is canon for me.
In the game everyone's reasons was unclear, Wild Hunt seemed unreasonable, white frost was like a big final boss, whom Ciri should fight (how?) in the end. So I did not really understand what CDPR wanted us to tell. But it's okay, the game was good, if you take it as a fanfiction.
 
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