Let's Talk About The Ending [super spoilers, duhr]

[DaAznKnight]

Let's Talk About The Ending [super spoilers, duhr]

I posted this on Reddit as well, but I also want to find out what you guys think:

So I just finished the game today, a couple hours ago. Had a small existential crisis, as I wondered what I'm going to do now. Probably the Towel Challenge on Death March.


Anywho, thinking back to the last few moments of the game, after you've kicked Eredin's ass (good fight btw, especially when you're a sword fighting fan). If you recall, after killing Eredin, you go after Avallach (or however its spelled) to find Ciri. Turns out Avallach is helping Ciri end The White Frost. I personally ended up getting The Witcheress ending.


When else in the game is The White Frost mentioned? You'd think an event of such an apocalyptic scale would be mentioned over and over. I felt like the story writers just didn't know how to end it, and threw in The White Frost at the very last second as an excuse to let Ciri die (assuming made all the decisions to kill her).


Can someone explain this part to me? It's like, suddenly Ciri just shows up at the tower and says she's gonna go kill herself now to stop the world from ending.


Moreover, there's no explanation as to how Ciri survived The White Frost for The Witcheress and The Empress endings. She just shows back up. In fact, for the longest time, riding from Vizima to the Inn, I thought Ciri was dead for real (which almost made me reload to many hours back to try again).


Can someone clear this up for me?

 

[CTPhipps]

It's an homage to the books which is poorly alluded to. We get a bit on it in Geralts trek across the multiverse, encountering a world destroyed by ice.

 

[Noobseals]

When chasing wild hunt in Keira's quest, white frost was mentioned by saying "they can summon white frost"

 

[jj284b]

Guys you really didnt played Witcher 1? Its all about White Frost... It was a perfect ending, which finally handled the white frost. In all three games there are plenty of mentions of ilithine prophecies, about end of days, as white frost will come and destroy everything, while world will be reborn etc etc...

 

[227]

There's also a loading screen that says "When the time of the White Frost comes, don't eat the yellow snow."

Seriously.

 

[unwizzo]

there are a few loading screens about Ilthinnes Prophecy and Tedd Deireadh iirc. The Books describe it, the games describe it, though TW1 in more detail, so you could know that, though in tw3 finding ciri is more important through most of the game, the Time of End is still always looming in the background

 

[Sapath]

Had a small existential crisis, as I wondered what I'm going to do now.

Heh. Same here. After reading the books I still knew the story would be continued with the games, but now that everything is over I feel empty inside. Glad I got the Ciri witcher ending, I would have teared up like a little bitch if I had finished it with the other two.

 

[possumgfx]

Well I played Witcher 1 and the White Frost was never in the focus of the game. It was never in the focus of the second game and even less in the third one. Yes it is mentioned. So is Mahakam. The games central antagonist is the Wild Hunt. We explore why they are hunting Ciri, their motives and their means. We fight their allies, their minions and the riders themselves. Solving the White Frost problem seems to me like first rescuing someone from a burning building and adding curing cancer right away. The White Frost was always introduced as a side effect of the Wild Hunts way of travelling. The cold comes with the Wild Hunt. The fact that Eredin actually seeks to conquer Geralts World is because, so I understood it, his own world is threatened by the White Frost. Now he actually brings it with him when he charges after Ciri? Yes the White Frost is a danger lurking, far more dangerous than the Wild Hunt but its not an urgent one, an immediate one. Its like Ragnarok. It will come but its not something you activly fight and not by just adding the solution to it at the end of the game. Confusing....

 

[inanimate_object]

I posted this on Reddit as well, but I also want to find out what you guys think:

So I just finished the game today, a couple hours ago. Had a small existential crisis, as I wondered what I'm going to do now. Probably the Towel Challenge on Death March.


Anywho, thinking back to the last few moments of the game, after you've kicked Eredin's ass (good fight btw, especially when you're a sword fighting fan). If you recall, after killing Eredin, you go after Avallach (or however its spelled) to find Ciri. Turns out Avallach is helping Ciri end The White Frost. I personally ended up getting The Witcheress ending.


When else in the game is The White Frost mentioned? You'd think an event of such an apocalyptic scale would be mentioned over and over. I felt like the story writers just didn't know how to end it, and threw in The White Frost at the very last second as an excuse to let Ciri die (assuming made all the decisions to kill her).


Can someone explain this part to me? It's like, suddenly Ciri just shows up at the tower and says she's gonna go kill herself now to stop the world from ending.


Moreover, there's no explanation as to how Ciri survived The White Frost for The Witcheress and The Empress endings. She just shows back up. In fact, for the longest time, riding from Vizima to the Inn, I thought Ciri was dead for real (which almost made me reload to many hours back to try again).


Can someone clear this up for me?

There's nothing to clear up. You are exactly right. The White Frost is a Deus ex Machina ending that was put in the story at the last minute almost certainly because of how the writers fumbled the Wild Hunt. Because the main villain of the story is never given any depth, characterization or motivations beyond wanting to kill the lead, it robs the player of any sense of satisfaction when Eredin dies. Seriously, you don't feel ANYTHING, not joy, not dismay, not sadness because you don't know Eredin at all, you don't know the main villain which you have worked to finally throw down. So now the writers are stuck in a difficult situation. The antagonist is dead, but there is no sense of emotional resolution. So they throw in a ham-fisted concept like the White Chill and the White Light. It is screaming Deus ex Machina. The reason why you haven't gotten any satisfactory answers in the thread is because there are so many apologists on the thread. That they would attempt to say a pee joke in a loading screen and brief mentions of the White Frost in a DIFFERENT GAME makes the White Frost a natural ending to the saga, says more about the extent to which they will go to defend utterly contrite writing than it does about the quality of the ending.

The story, particularly the end, reeks of writers baffled of what to do next, and lacking any dramatic finale decide to throw in a random natural disaster as the climax of the story. A final conflict whose resolution we never witness. The end is exactly the confusing mess and throwaway writing you thought it was.

 

[TudorAdrian]

The story, particularly the end, reeks of writers baffled of what to do next, and lacking any dramatic finale decide to throw in a random natural disaster as the climax of the story. A final conflict whose resolution we never witness. The end is exactly the confusing mess and throwaway writing you thought it was.

Hit the nail on the head!

 

[Anwell]

I think part of the problem with the white frost, is that this is the last witcher game with Geralt. So they try to tie up all the loose threads from the books. I dont think Ciri would ever be truly free until the white frost is dealt with. Now she is free from the hunt, as well as the prophecy hanging over her head. Its poorly executed, and the wild hunt is a bad villain, especially by CD projects standards. I like their writing better when its more their own, not so restricted by the books., which I think its part of the problem. Not that it excues them for writing Eredin so poorly, he was actually more interesting in TW1.

 

[Folkrom]

i agree about the white frost suddenly making an appearance, i was all "ok!, so the infamous white frost shows up, but why? it was barely mentioned in W2/3"
would be great if a dev could shed some light on this...

 

[SpacemanCometh]

Eh. I don´t think it was that big of a logical leap to conclude the game with the White Frost stuff. For someone who only played W3, sure, it might seem like it comes out of left field but I feel like if you played the full series there was plenty of story content alluding to the white frost.

They could maybe have made it a bit more apparent in W3 sure, but I can´t agree that it seemed tacked on if you look at the series as a whole.

 

[inanimate_object]

Eh. I don´t think it was that big of a logical leap to conclude the game with the White Frost stuff. For someone who only played W3, sure, it might seem like it comes out of left field but I feel like if you played the full series there was plenty of story content alluding to the white frost.

They could maybe have made it a bit more apparent in W3 sure, but I can´t agree that it seemed tacked on if you look at the series as a whole.

For a game which has so little to do with the previous games, it is a bare-bones excuse to try and justify its ending with the precursor games that it ignored up until this point.

 

[Redemyr]

I agree with what people are saying here. The devs should have avoided actual story lines from the book and stick to writing their own, based on the books. They proved they were really good at it. So many things suffered because of that approach.

They should have made a true continuation of W2 instead of this half and half adaptation/sequel.

Consider the differences between W2 and W3. You fight two bosses in each, the ones from w2 they made up and the ones from w3 they adapted from the books, storyline included.

The dragon for example. She was introduced early on, then really developed on the middle depending on your choices and the way you deal with her again depends on your path.

And then we have Letho, one of the best antagonist ever, and one you can really connect, but also hate. You get so much mixed feeling about him. On one hand, he killed Broltest and kidnapped Triss. On the other, he actually saves her depending on your choice, and he reveals his past and his motivations for doing what he did. You are really torn.

I don't recall many lines from W2, but Letho's "wanna fight?", said with such sadness, especially for such a tough character all around, is just touching. It really reaches the player and has them think on what to do. And then the way they let you deal with him is superb.

And then you get that ending, with Geralt and Co walking away, great music in the background, idk, it gave me the feels on a level W3 didn't at all.

 

[dzbrown]

First of all...just want to say that I loved the game. Currently going through some post-game depression as a result of how good it was. Regarding the ending, I feel they were all decent but had some small gripes about them:

Gripe #1: If you choose all of the 'good' options for Ciri, you are effectively being incredibly supportive of her and allowing her to choose her own path. This seems weird at the epilogue because you are convinced she should be a witcher. Earlier on, you were basically saying "do whatever you want to do" and happy with the result. I can only speculate that being a Witcher is what she wanted in the 'good ending'. In the Empress ending, it seems there is this sadness that permeates the entirety of it even though just a few hours before you were basically just allowing her to decide for herself and it's not like Geralt has never been at court (he was Foltest's bodyguard) and plus Ciri can easily travel through time and space.

Gripe #2: This one may offend some members of Team Triss, but I did feel that her leaving unless you basically asked her to stay even though Ciri was still very much in danger and she was supposedly really 'in love' with you, regardless of your choices at that point, that she would see Geralt's mission as more important than ferrying a bunch of refugees to a distant kingdom. Clearly these refugees are adults and could potentially speak for themselves upon arriving in Kovir. Putting this dilemma in play actually took away any sort of feeling that Triss really did care about Geralt (again, decisions aside). If you know the person you love is trying to save a "sister-like figure" and prevent certain doom, would you really need for that person to confirm your love before you would do it? I don't know. It seems a bit half-baked to me.

Gripe #3: No mention of Dandelion or Zoltan (these two especially given what they've been through in the last three games) in the epilogue. It was as if they were more acquaintances than real friends, which I feel is mistaken.

Gripe #4: This one might just be unnecessary, but why wasn't there any mention of what happened to the Lodge? Given that Witcher 2 is all about them and Witcher 3 is rounding them all up to help you with your mission with Ciri, but after all is said and done they just vanish. The only real mention of them are two of your potential love interests: either Yennefer living in the north somewhere (if you didn't choose her), living with her in some unknown location (if you did) or Triss in Kovir (if you did or didn't choose her), and one small nod to Philippa wanting to usurp Yennefer's position of being an advisor to Emhyr/Ciri.

Gripe #5: Why would Geralt retiring with Yen be boring? It might have just been a cheeky comment, but wasn't it true that Geralt wanted to leave the life of a Witcher and put down the sword before his murder in Rivia? This seems to be what Geralt wants the most. Not necessarily choosing Yen per se, but just settling down and leaving the path.

Gripe #6: This one is a bit trivial but I felt the Eredin and post-Eredin fight was extremely anti-climatic given his role--though sometimes more of a cameo--in the first two games. I actually felt the fight against Imlerith was far more satisyfing from a post-fight perspective than Eredin's fight ever was.

I guess that's it. I hope I'm not coming off as being too nit-picky, because I really did absolutely love the game, and I do realize there are so many variables to consider when crafting an ending based on so many decisions, but it did feel a little weird given some of these character's roles in previous games and how some of them were marginalized in the epilogue of the trilogy's conclusion.

 

[Jou05]

There's nothing to clear up. You are exactly right. The White Frost is a Deus ex Machina ending that was put in the story at the last minute almost certainly because of how the writers fumbled the Wild Hunt. Because the main villain of the story is never given any depth, characterization or motivations beyond wanting to kill the lead, it robs the player of any sense of satisfaction when Eredin dies. Seriously, you don't feel ANYTHING, not joy, not dismay, not sadness because you don't know Eredin at all, you don't know the main villain which you have worked to finally throw down. So now the writers are stuck in a difficult situation. The antagonist is dead, but there is no sense of emotional resolution. So they throw in a ham-fisted concept like the White Chill and the White Light. It is screaming Deus ex Machina. The reason why you haven't gotten any satisfactory answers in the thread is because there are so many apologists on the thread. That they would attempt to say a pee joke in a loading screen and brief mentions of the White Frost in a DIFFERENT GAME makes the White Frost a natural ending to the saga, says more about the extent to which they will go to defend utterly contrite writing than it does about the quality of the ending.

The story, particularly the end, reeks of writers baffled of what to do next, and lacking any dramatic finale decide to throw in a random natural disaster as the climax of the story. A final conflict whose resolution we never witness. The end is exactly the confusing mess and throwaway writing you thought it was.

/thread

 

[Redemyr]

Gripe #2: This one may offend some members of Team Triss, but I did feel that her leaving unless you basically asked her to say even though Ciri was still very much in danger and she was supposedly really 'in love' with you, regardless of your choices at that point, that she would see Geralt's mission as more important than ferrying a bunch of refugees to a distant kingdom. Clearly these refugees are adults and could potentially speak for themselves upon arriving in Kovir. Putting this dilemma in play actually took away any sort of feeling that Triss really did care about Geralt (again, decisions aside). If you know the person you love is trying to save a "sister-like figure" and prevent certain doom, would you really need for that person to confirm your love before you would do it? I don't know. It seems a bit half-baked to me.

Gripe #3: No mention of Dandelion or Zoltan (these two especially given what they've been through in the last three games) in the epilogue. It was as if they were more acquaintances than real friends, which I feel is mistaken.

I guess if there were a such a thing as a teams I would be placed in Triss team. And that doesn't offend me in the slightest, in fact it is one of the points I made earlier in her big thread, it doesn't make sense for her to leave Geralt, regardless of romantic entanglements. She should go to Skelligue with him or at least be shown pursuing some other leads somewhere. This provided the mages are already in the boat, I guess if you don't help her then she dies trying to get them out and is unavailable for the rest of the game (unless you use the lamp).

And I would have loved for more Dandelion and Zolan, A scene similar to what happens with the witchers for example.

 

[CTPhipps]

First of all...just want to say that I loved the game. Currently going through some post-game depression as a result of how good it was. Regarding the ending, I feel they were all decent but had some small gripes about them:

Gripe #1: If you choose all of the 'good' options for Ciri, you are effectively being incredibly supportive of her and allowing her to choose her own path. This seems weird at the epilogue because you are convinced she should be a witcher. Earlier on, you were basically saying "do whatever you want to do" and happy with the result. I can only speculate that being a Witcher is what she wanted in the 'good ending'. In the Empress ending, it seems there is this sadness that permeates the entirety of it even though just a few hours before you were basically just allowing her to decide for herself and it's not like Geralt has never been at court (he was Foltest's bodyguard) and plus Ciri can easily travel through time and space.

Gripe #2: This one may offend some members of Team Triss, but I did feel that her leaving unless you basically asked her to stay even though Ciri was still very much in danger and she was supposedly really 'in love' with you, regardless of your choices at that point, that she would see Geralt's mission as more important than ferrying a bunch of refugees to a distant kingdom. Clearly these refugees are adults and could potentially speak for themselves upon arriving in Kovir. Putting this dilemma in play actually took away any sort of feeling that Triss really did care about Geralt (again, decisions aside). If you know the person you love is trying to save a "sister-like figure" and prevent certain doom, would you really need for that person to confirm your love before you would do it? I don't know. It seems a bit half-baked to me.

Gripe #3: No mention of Dandelion or Zoltan (these two especially given what they've been through in the last three games) in the epilogue. It was as if they were more acquaintances than real friends, which I feel is mistaken.

Gripe #4: This one might just be unnecessary, but why wasn't there any mention of what happened to the Lodge? Given that Witcher 2 is all about them and Witcher 3 is rounding them all up to help you with your mission with Ciri, but after all is said and done they just vanish. The only real mention of them are two of your potential love interests: either Yennefer living in the north somewhere (if you didn't choose her), living with her in some unknown location (if you did) or Triss in Kovir (if you did or didn't choose her), and one small nod to Philippa wanting to usurp Yennefer's position of being an advisor to Emhyr/Ciri.

Gripe #5: Why would Geralt retiring with Yen be boring? It might have just been a cheeky comment, but wasn't it true that Geralt wanted to leave the life of a Witcher and put down the sword before his murder in Rivia? This seems to be what Geralt wants the most. Not necessarily choosing Yen per se, but just settling down and leaving the path.

Gripe #6: This one is a bit trivial but I felt the Eredin and post-Eredin fight was extremely anti-climatic given his role--though sometimes more of a cameo--in the first two games. I actually felt the fight against Imlerith was far more satisyfing from a post-fight perspective than Eredin's fight ever was.

I guess that's it. I hope I'm not coming off as being too nit-picky, because I really did absolutely love the game, and I do realize there are so many variables to consider when crafting an ending based on so many decisions, but it did feel a little weird given some of these character's roles in previous games and how some of them were marginalized in the epilogue of the trilogy's conclusion.

1. Given the horrific history Geralt has with Nilfgaard, invading his homeland three times and committing countless atrocities to capture Ciri, it's easy to understand why he and Ciri feel that her becoming Empress is the "end" for them. It's also something Ciri doesn't want to do and is the sacrifice of her personal happiness for the arguable greater good. I don't think a "Happy Ending" for Ciri ascending the throne would fit the saga as it's not Return of the King. Kings and Queens, with rare exceptions, are portrayed with a grossly cynical eye unlike other settings.

2. People who talk about Triss not being supportive of Geralt strike me as very troubling. Geralt spends a huge amount of time going after contracts on monsters, helping out locals, and interfering in the political process of natives. Why? Because he's a good person who can't turn his back on the innocent. Triss takes care of her mage friends by sending them to Korvir and then proceeds to meet up with Geralt at Kaer Morhen. From there, she's with the team even if she doesn't say much.

The only thing she doesn't do is go to Skellige with Geralt and we know that's because Yennefer was there.

3. Yeah, Dandelion and Zoltan needed an epilogue along with Priscilla. Something like, "Zoltan proceeded to become the King of Gwent and eventually became the producer of the cards, purchasing the company with money he made in tournaments. He is now richer than some Kings." Dandelion and Priscilla proceed to get married and he settles down (or not), too, as a potential ending.

4. I confess, I really was disappointed with the portrayal of the Lodge of Sorceresses because I think they royally backtracked on them. The Lodge, rather than Letho, were the chief villains of AOK and they were horrifically evil. The fact you have to make peace with them isn't a problem I had but I wanted to have a confrontation with Phillipa. I don't think she's a Neutral Figure but every bit as evil as Radovid.

5. Geralt leaving the Path is something he claims to want to do but, bluntly, we know that's not in his nature. Geralt ends up sacrificing himself to prevent a pogrom in Rivia because he can't turn his back on evil. Retirement is something I think isn't really in his nature.

6. I thought it was a fine fight but, honestly, think it would have been better to have Ciri kill Eredin. We didn't get a chance to kill Avalarch or the White Frost in a boss fight and that was cheap.

 

[saricc]

It's mentioned throughout the books and the games. You have to look deeper however, so if you don't it will kind of catch you off guard.

(though in the books it's pretty much just slow climate change/it's only supposed to consume the North and not the whole world or other worlds),

I dunno. I was satisfied with the ending, personally. There was enough mentions of the White Frost that I suspected it would be involved in some way, shape, or form.