Yennefer of Vengerberg (all spoilers)

[CTPhipps]

I don't know about that. It seems to me that Ciri just wants to be a normal person. She doesn't want to save everyone. I mean not only does she state this multiple times throughout the game, but at the end of the books she literally abandons the world to its own fate (she leaves it to die by the white frost). Also you have to realize that Ciri willingly joined a group of bandits during the books. It's not like those bandits were good, either. At the end of the day Ciri just wants independence and the right to choose her own destiny.

Yeah, this is why I consider the Sapkowski ending to be kind of "meh" and I much prefer Game Ciri.

 

[Kallelinski]

My guess is that

Spoiler

Yennefer reacts like this out of shame for her own colleagues, what they did, as they are indirectly responsible for what happened with Ciri and had already plans for her since centuries.

And Triss can't be involved, because, well, i would assume she is half the age of Yennefer, so it's almost impossible.

I should maybe spoiler more, just to be sure.

 

[keldrath]

Yup, but..

Spoiler

‘This is what I mean,’ she said coldly, pointed to the chaos of the fruit. ‘For these are the possible genetic combinations. And we know only what we see here. That is, nothing. Your mistake has been avenged, Francesca, by producing an avalanche of mistakes. The gene appeared by chance, after a hundred years, during which events may have occurred, of which we have no knowledge. Events kept secret, hidden, covered up. Children of premarital, extramarital, secret adoption, even swapped. Incest. Crossbreeding, the blood of forgotten ancestors which then revives in later generations. To conclude: a hundred years ago you had the gene in your hand and it escaped you.
Mistake, Enid, mistake, mistake! Too much spontaneity, too many accidents. Too little control, too little interference with chance.’
‘We were not,’ Enid an Gleanna, pursed her lips, ‘dealing with rabbits, which can be locked in a cage and their parks chosen for them.’
Fringilla, following the gaze of Triss Merigold, saw Yennefer’s hands clench suddenly the carved arms of her chair.

This is what now unites Yennefer and Francesca, Triss thought feverishly, still avoiding eye contact. The calculation. Because, what they did had something to do with parks and breeding rabbits. Yes, their plans for Ciri and Kovir’s king, although seemingly unlikely, are completely real. They have already done this. They place who they want on the thrones, they create links and dynasties as they wished, as it is more convenient for them. The used charms, potions and aphrodisiacs. The kings and queens enter into foreign marriages, often morganatic, against any plan, intentions and treaties. And then those who want children and should not are administered secret measures to prevent pregnancy. Those who did not want to have children, but it was necessary to do so are instead or the promised cured were given placebos, water with licorice. Hence, all these incredible connections. Calanthe, Pavetta... Ciri. Yennefer was involved in it. And now regrets it. And she is right. Heck, if Geralt finds out about it...

[...]

She felt the eyes of Francesca and Philippa on her. Triss, however, whose gaze she was trying to attract, avoided her eyes. Damn, thought Yennefer, with effort keeping an indifferent expression on her face. What damn snare entangles this girl? Damn, how can I look in the witcher’s eyes…

Well and that's it. We don't learn much more than this about that. It is at least doubtful, whether, who and how much everyone is involved.

Spoiler

As i said Yennefer is 102 years old in Witcher 3, so if they stopped the research almost 100 years ago, she can't be much involved in it anyway. If a sorcerer has finished the training, s/he has to look for a job, that's means usually working for another sorcerer until the apprentice has finished his/her journeyman's examination. Tissia de Vries was the direct mentor of Yennefer, so it's no surprise that she got involved then, as she worked for her most likely.

I think that none of the younger (<150 years) sorcerers can be involved, just because of the time difference.

I don't trust Triss's appraisal of the situation especially considering Yennefer didn't even know who was involved with the genetic manipulation, that's how we know who was, because she asked. Yennefer clearly didn't like how they were trying to manipulate Ciri though, and she was only just then learning just how special Ciri was.

 

[Vargeras]

Yeah, this is why I consider the Sapkowski ending to be kind of "meh" and I much prefer Game Ciri.

Sapkowskis ending would have been perfect if the story would have stopped 25 pages earlier

 

[CTPhipps]

Sapkowskis ending would have been perfect if the story would have stopped 25 pages earlier

"And then everything went to hell" IS a running theme of the books, at least.

 

[Jarlhen]

Here's one thing that I've never quite understood and something someone can hopefully help me with. I keep seeing Triss being referred to as Yen's best friend. I've read the books and I can't recall this ever being mentioned. It would appear, to me, that they are friendly work colleagues when the book starts. Then they become perhaps a bit more friendly with Ciri as the link between them. Then Triss takes the Lodge's side in regards to Ciri which Yen sees as a betrayal. Although I'm sure they're still friendly as Yen no doubt understood how Triss was thinking, I can't remember them ever being seen as best friends. If 0 is enemies and best friends is 10 I'd put them at about 6 (though probably higher in terms of trusting one another). But that's how I remember it, I could be entirely wrong. So, am I? Am I entirely wrong? Anyone got some quotes I've forgotten about?

 

[CTPhipps]

Here's one thing that I've never quite understood and something someone can hopefully help me with. I keep seeing Triss being referred to as Yen's best friend. I've read the books and I can't recall this ever being mentioned. It would appear, to me, that they are friendly work colleagues when the book starts. Then they become perhaps a bit more friendly with Ciri as the link between them. Then Triss takes the Lodge's side in regards to Ciri which Yen sees as a betrayal. Although I'm sure they're still friendly as Yen no doubt understood how Triss was thinking, I can't remember them ever being seen as best friends. If 0 is enemies and best friends is 10 I'd put them at about 6 (though probably higher in terms of trusting one another). But that's how I remember it, I could be entirely wrong. So, am I? Am I entirely wrong? Anyone got some quotes I've forgotten about?

Yennefer mentions Triss several times during the short story and later they get confirmed as ex-lovers. Given Yennefer doesn't have ANY friends other than Geralt and Istred, this is kind of important.

 

[Eruvadhor]

Yennefer mentions Triss several times during the short story and later they get confirmed as ex-lovers.

You keep posting on this and no one replies. I seem to recall being under this impression at multiple points in the novels, but don't recall where. Do you have quotes or chapters where this information can be found? I'm certain many would be interested who didn't pick up on this. Thanks.

 

[Jarlhen]

Yennefer mentions Triss several times during the short story and later they get confirmed as ex-lovers. Given Yennefer doesn't have ANY friends other than Geralt and Istred, this is kind of important.

Yes. but none of this has anything to do with being best friends. And you also can't say she doesn't have any other friends. In fact, Yen appears to have decent relations with several sorceresses. And Yen has slept with many individuals over the years, again, this is no indication of their friendship status. Triss plays a pretty miniscule role in the short stories, and her role in the big series, while important, is also quite limited. I feel your essentially saying that you have a feeling or perhaps you want them to be best friends, but I don't feel what you mention actually supports it. Don't take that as being rude, I was just looking for something more.

ETA: These are from the Last Wish. The first is in regards to some nudity, the second is in regards to an "incantation". That's all the mentions of Triss I can find in the Last Wish.

'Don't be embarrassed,' she said, throwing an armful of clothing on the hook. 'I don't faint at the sight of a naked man. Triss Merigold, a friend, says if you've seen one, you've seen them all.'

'That exorcism of yours . . .' The towel flew off its peg and suddenly began to wipe the rest of the outlines. 'Triss is going to kill herself laughing when I tell her. Who taught you that, witcher? That incantation?'

This is from the Sword of Destiny where Geralt finds out about the people who died at Stodden Hill. Yen isn't involved other than at one point he fears she will be one of the names.

“Every child knows the names of the fourteen carved in stone at the top of the hill. You don't believe me? Listen: Axel known as Raby, Triss Merigold, Atlan Kerk, Vanielle of Bruga, Dagobert of Vole...”
“Stop, Yurga.”
“What's wrong, my lord? You're as pale as death.”
“Nothing.”

Triss Merigold, chestnut hair, cheerful, ready to burst into laughter for no reason at all, like a child. He liked her. It had been mutual.

If we go on to the actual series Triss is very much so involved. So it becomes more difficult to just search for her name, I'd have to re-read all of it Hence why I'm asking here! Is there anything that actually links Yen and Triss as best friends or even close friends for that matter? I also can't remember them being ex-lovers, I'd definitely need a quote for that. But I still don't feel that's indicative of much. Sorceresses, including Yen, are known to be quite free in who they chose to bed. As you may recall, there's a fair bit of drama between Geralt and Yen in regards to this (both of them being guilty of course).

 

[Zyvik]

Yennefer mentions Triss several times during the short story and later they get confirmed as ex-lovers. Given Yennefer doesn't have ANY friends other than Geralt and Istred, this is kind of important.

She has other friends,besides them.Margarita Laux-Antille,Crach an Craite and Molnar Giancardi

 

[Krull32]

Even in the games you can see, that Yen only wears a facade, it's harder to see, of course, since these kind of things are more easily described in a book, then displayed in a game. But you need to be open minded, willing to understand ones motives and paying attention to details in order to realise that. This counts for every character of course.

Agree and well said. It takes a while to look through her facade.

I should first preface this by saying that I have only played the games and have not read the books (they are on order). I also chose Yennefer in the game. I'm also wondering why there are so many posts about Yennefer v. Triss on here and other forums as if people need to justify why they choose one or the other. In the interest of being mildly hypocritical, I am just throwing my hat in with the rest of you.

That being said, I felt Yennefer was a much deeper character. Let me explain what I mean: Triss came off as being more of a 'game character', that is, typically cute, friendly, and, for the most part, riding the coat tails of our much beloved protagonist, Geralt. This combined with her good looks and the assumed ginger obsession, probably seems like the more obvious choice for a lot of people, hence the great lengths people are going through in order to acquire additional content for her. I can understand this. But, and maybe this is just strange game mechanics, there are instances where Triss' character seems flat, one-dimensional and lacking depth due to her more 'game character' attributes. You don't really get a sense, at least in the third game, that there is a rich history between them even though there is, at least according to the games (which is what I am drawing references from).

There is also the observation made about Geralt losing his memory and that he would be able to choose his romantic interest anew. This would all make sense EXCEPT for the fact that Geralt fully regains his memory in the second game. We are never really told what that means and perhaps that is simply a deficiency in the narration.

Now before the hordes of Triss avatars descend on me, hear me out: I understand why you like her. I like her too. I just find that her character is just a little too typical and possessing too many 'game character' traits to keep me interested. There are hints of some complex situations that occurred, mostly in the second game, in their relationship but, for the most part, if you remember many of their interactions it came off as being more of a perpetual dating scenario rather than a meaningful relationship. Perhaps this is due to Triss obsessing over Geralt but her true interests lay at court and the scene on the docks where she is pursuing her 'dream job' and fleeing a real hell is only altered if you truly confess your feelings for her, then she just decides to stay. There should just be more tension in this scene, on the one hand she has this great job awaiting her and the promise of a better life and on the other hand she has the person she supposedly loves who is also trying to find and save a sister-like figure to Triss. Instead, the scene is rather flat, you either tell her you love her, or the more subtle "Stay with me" with some other strategic prompts to get her to stay. This scene should have had more depth, but because she comes off more as a 'game character', it is cut and dry.

As someone mentioned in this thread, Yennefer is a maze and Triss is more linear. I think that speaks volumes to my point.

Now, let's discuss Yennefer. I can see how people see her personality as being abrasive, complicated, and difficult. But she just comes off as a much deeper character. You can see, or maybe not see for some, that she has a troubled past, that she has some real issues outside of Geralt, that she has become cynical with the world, and that there is a much deeper history between the two of them rather than the 'perpetual dating scenario' that you find with Triss and Geralt. This can come off as bitchiness, but I didn't see it that way (and I also didn't read the books). It came off as being more real.

I fight with my wife all the time, we have both had difficult pasts and we are both very different people and perhaps because of this, I resonated with Yennefer far more. I can see that underlying their relationship, there is something more, something deeper, but that the vagaries of circumstance and the complexities present on the continent have forced both of them to adapt thereby making their relationship much more multifaceted than a cut and dry romance. There is history there and you can see it. There are two different personalities there and you can see it. There are two philosophical systems at play within each of them and you can see it. You can see what might be observed as 'contradictory forces', but often, as in literature, relationships of this nature become far deeper, and far richer because of it. So while on the surface, she can just seem like she is trying to control Geralt or give him a hard time, it's believable, and you can also see in other instances when the facade weakens and her true feelings come forth. All of this made me like her all the more because she seemed like a far more believable person than the alternatives.

I don't think there is any warranted criticism for people that pick Triss, but I also don't understand the shallow interpretations that people have of Yennefer. Maybe people prefer the simpler option of the two: one that just wants to be with you, comes off as being more friendly of the two, doesn't really give you a hard time, and is generally the 'cutsey, girl next door, damsel in distress' kind of vibe. I get it, I really do. But for me, and I think for several others (especially those on this thread, not to mention the people that have a broader sense of the total lore of the world and the protagonist in particular) can see the forest for the trees and others are only looking at surface level characteristics and behaviors without ever questioning why they might be there.

If you want to pick Triss just because she is more your type, then that makes sense to me. If you want to pick Triss just because 'you hate Yennefer and think she's a bitch', that seems rather silly, for there is far more than meets the eye.

I think that is enough for this wall of text.

Happy Trails.

That hits the Nail on the Head. Very good Post.

 

[Gilthoniel]

So, I ordered the books the other day and I'm really looking forward to reading them.!

I think this is really great that some gamers want to find out about the characters more and buying the books. You won't be dissapointed dzbrown.

---------- Updated at 04:14 PM ----------

One evening, of her own initiative, unasked, casually, joyfully and embellishing a great deal, she told the enchantress about her first meeting with the witcher in Brokilon Forest, amongst the dryads who had abducted her and wanted to force her to stay and become one of them.

“Oh!” said Yennefer on listening to the story, “I’d give a lot to see that – Geralt, I mean. I’m trying to imagine the expression on his face in Brokilon, when he saw what sort of Surprise destiny had concocted for him! Because he must have had a wonderful expression when he found out who you were?”


Ciri giggled and her emerald eyes lit up devilishly.


“Oh, yes!” she snorted. “What an expression! Do you want to see? I’ll show you. Look at me!”


Yennefer burst out laughing.


That laughter, thought Ciri watching swarms of black birds flying eastwards, that laughter, shared and sincere, really brought us together, her and me. We understood – both she and I – that we can laugh and talk together about him. About Geralt. Suddenly we became close, although I knew perfectly well that Geralt both brought us together and separated us, and that that’s how it would always be.


Our laughter together brought us closer to each

I really wish there would be more interaction between Yen and Ciri in the game.

 

[jockmick]

Yennefer mentions Triss several times during the short story and later they get confirmed as ex-lovers.

I would love to hear you elaborate on this. I can't recall anything in the books that implied Yen and Triss were lovers. In the second chapter of Blood of Elves, Sapkowski writes that Triss had had a fascination with the same sex, but I can't recall reading she ever had a relationship with Yen.

 

[saricc]

Yeah, this is why I consider the Sapkowski ending to be kind of "meh" and I much prefer Game Ciri.

She's the same in the game. Ultimately her past isn't changed at all, however, and in the end she still just wants to be independent. Through multiple dialogues she talks about how she wishes she could just be normal, or atleast that people would stop trying to use her for whatever (that includes saving the world). That's why she faces the Wild Hunt and the White Frost. She wants to stop running. But before that? She abandoned the world to it's fate. She only came back to it to save Geralt and Yennefer from The Wild Hunt.

Didn't you choose the ending where Ciri becomes a Witcher? That's the exact same ending as the books. She chooses her happiness over her destiny. Or in this case her happiness over her blood right (which she doesn't want to have anything to do with).

 

[CTPhipps]

I would love to hear you elaborate on this. I can't recall anything in the books that implied Yen and Triss were lovers. In the second chapter of Blood of Elves, Sapkowski writes that Triss had had a fascination with the same sex, but I can't recall reading she ever had a relationship with Yen.

I'll see what passages I can find which gave me that impression. I wonder if someone ever asked the author and he answered.

 

[Gilthoniel]

I'll see what passages I can find which gave me that impression. I wonder if someone ever asked the author and he answered.

There aren't any passages about this at all...did you really read the books?

 

[CTPhipps]

The problem is that you seem to be assuming that the choice for being a Witcher is a selfish one when I see it as one which is perhaps not as self-sacrificing as the Empress one (given doing so makes her positively miserable) but still a fundamentally heroic and honorable path. It's the equivalent of giving up being ruler of a nation to be a Doctor with Doctors Without Borders. More "Grosse Domestic Good Product" on a strict Utilitarian scale may be done in the Empress ending but that's not meaning being a Witcher isn't a cause of justice in a world which is sorely needing champions.

Besides, Ciri's final choice in the game is to REVERSE her choice to abandon the world. Ciri comes back to the world because she thinks the Wild Hunt has lost her scent but she, ultimately, chooses to stand with Avallach in order to fight the White Frost even though it may mean her death. Ciri is devastated by both Vesemir and Skjall's demise as both men offered up their lives for her.

She is not a woman who wants other people to die for her.

She wants independnece, freedom, and the open road but this is still a woman who is very much Geralt's daughter and one of the singularly most decent, noble, people in the game. I also think of it in the context of military service.

My Great Uncle fought in the Battle of the Bulge and he was an incredibly self-sacrificing and noble person. After helping defeat the Nazis, it might have been MORE noble to stick with the military to continue helping the army in other lands but I don't begrudge him retiring to marry his wife.

Ciri SAVED THE MULTIVERSE -- I think she's earned some peace. Which, ironically, for her is hunting monsters the rest of her life.]

There aren't any passages about this at all...did you really read the books?

It's the impression I got reading them.

I'm not afraid to say I could be reading too much into the subtext of things like Triss considering Yennefer more important than Geralt.

It's been a year since I've read them last after all but that's what I thought.

Of course, I was also under the impression bisexuality was the norm for sorcerers and sorceresses rather than just Triss and Phillipa being bisexual women in general. The idea of age and the perpetual youth of magic being something which changed you with time. I could have been reading, again, my own interpretations into things and I'm not afraid to admit I'm wrong.

 

[Eruvadhor]

There aren't any passages about this at all...did you really read the books?

That's what I always thought and why I'm curious where he's reading this. I recall the Triss same-sex fascination thing, and speculated based on it, but I don't recall a single sentence where it was alluded to it being towards Yen.

 

[saricc]

Ciri is completely in on the plan that involves using Nilfgaardian soldiers in the battle against the Wild Hunt. Maybe she doesn't want people she likes to die for her, but she doesn't make much fuss about those soldiers.

In the books we only know that the white frost will consume the world that Ciri comes from. In the books she and everyone else thinks that only one world is threatened by the white frost. In the games it turns out that EVERY world is threatened (and to be completely honest it's not really known if Ciri can stop the white frost. The elves want to use her as a gateway between the worlds, and everyone else wants to use her for her children and grandchildren that will conquer the world. I don't think it's ever mentioned if she can save the world from it's inevitable climate change/ice age.)

Anyway, the stakes have been raised for Ciri. She decides to stop the White frost because a lot more is on the line (including her two parents which are dead in the books and the reason why she abandons the world to it's fate). By the end Ciri hasn't changed much from the books, imo.

---------- Updated at 09:03 PM ----------

 

[Jarlhen]

I read the books recently and I really can't recall anything that gave me the impression that Yen and Triss were more than, essentially, work friends. Certainly nothing that left me thinking they were lovers. I could, of course, be entirely wrong (I kind of rush-read through it all) so I am more than happy to be proven wrong.

But I keep hearing people referring to them as best friends and I just don't see it. I can't remember anything that implies that they're particularly close. Work friends at best, friendly acquaintances quite realistically. They just happen to both be drawn to the same two people and as a result there is a certain level of trust between them, knowing that the other feels the same for the people they care about. That's far from close friendship to me, that's more like allies. Again, please prove me wrong, I'm happy to concede the point but as it stands I don't know where people are getting this idea from.