Yeah and I guess that's what it comes down to. Wiggle-room to allow for multiple interpretations and not to overwhelm newcommers that haven't read the books.
Still think they should've turned up the heat in the dialogue between Geralt and Yen later though, but I guess that's just me.
Yeah and I guess that's what it comes down to. Wiggle-room to allow for multiple interpretations and not to overwhelm newcommers that haven't read the books.
Still think they should've turned up the heat in the dialogue between Geralt and Yen later though, but I guess that's just me.
Have to say that I would have liked this as well, but on these forums it seems like we are on an island in a sea of Triss. Also, full confession: I have not read the books, yet. I am getting them on Monday.
Have to say that I would have liked this as well, but on these forums it seems like we are on an island in a sea of Triss. Also, full confession: I have not read the books, yet. I am getting them on Monday.
This is why I love reading books: the story comes to life, thanks to my imagination. Same goes for the games. Something is missong, or was handled too short? No problem I just think of something.
For example, when Geralt goes to the Isle of mist to get Ciri, Yennefer is inviting Triss to Kaer Morhen. And I'm damn sure, they have some serious girl talk over geralt, even if it's only in my head.
From "Baptism of fire": When Yennefer told the audience about Ciri, Triss Merigold closely watched her friend. Yennefer spoke calmly and without emotion, but Triss had known her for a long time and very well. She had seen her in many situations, including those that had caused stress, tiredness and depression. It was without a doubt that Yennefer was in this kind of situation.
That's a nice quote, but I don't think it implies they're best friends. In all likelihood Phillipa Eilhart would be able to say the same thing, she knows Yennefer very well and has for a long time as well. Many sorceresses probably could say the same thing. Not necessarily the 'friend' part, but again, doesn't imply best friends to me. It does, however, imply that Triss cares, which is probably more than could be said for most other sorceresses (though certainly not all of them).
The more I re-read and the more I talk to people it would appear that there is nothing in the books to imply that they are best friends. They appear to be friends and having been so for awhile (though I believe Triss is significantly younger than Yen so it can't have been for that long). I think @Kallelinski is right. What we have here is friendship within a certain range. They are not best friends, more than anything they trust each other and they are as a result good friends within the context of their profession.
Question is how Yen truly feels about Triss "betraying" her by trying to steal Geralt and then going with the Lodge in regards to Ciri. If anything that implies to me that their relationship deteriorates significantly. Again, I can't recall there being much discussion of this later on. I'm sure Yen recognizes why Triss does what she does, but I would imagine their relationship becoming far less friendly and far more professional. I have no doubt that Yen still feels she can trust Triss when push comes to shove, but can they be considered even good friends after that or have they become more allies than friends? I'm not sure we can answer that question, but I would argue it's become pretty clear that at the best of times they were good friends and we can speculate that this friendship deteriorates with Triss' several "betrayals".
ETA: Actually, I seem to recall a moment in one of the books where Triss discusses using the love spell on Geralt. I think she might mention that Yen is more important to her then than Geralt? I can't remember the details or which book it's in though. So yeah, I suppose they're close, still not sure about specifically best friends though. Also not sure how their friendship changes over time.
That's a nice quote, but I don't think it implies they're best friends. In all likelihood Phillipa Eilhart would be able to say the same thing, she knows Yennefer very well and has for a long time as well. Many sorceresses probably could say the same thing. Not necessarily the 'friend' part, but again, doesn't imply best friends to me. It does, however, imply that Triss cares, which is probably more than could be said for most other sorceresses (though certainly not all of them).
The more I re-read and the more I talk to people it would appear that there is nothing in the books to imply that they are best friends. They appear to be friends and having been so for awhile (though I believe Triss is significantly younger than Yen so it can't have been for that long). I think @Kallelinski is right. What we have here is friendship within a certain range. They are not best friends, more than anything they trust each other and they are as a result good friends within the context of their profession.
Question is how Yen truly feels about Triss "betraying" her by trying to steal Geralt and then going with the Lodge in regards to Ciri. If anything that implies to me that their relationship deteriorates significantly. Again, I can't recall there being much discussion of this later on. I'm sure Yen recognizes why Triss does what she does, but I would imagine their relationship becoming far less friendly and far more professional. I have no doubt that Yen still feels she can trust Triss when push comes to shove, but can they be considered even good friends after that or have they become more allies than friends? I'm not sure we can answer that question, but I would argue it's become pretty clear that at the best of times they were good friends and we can speculate that this friendship deteriorates with Triss' several "betrayals".
ETA: Actually, I seem to recall a moment in one of the books where Triss discusses using the love spell on Geralt. I think she might mention that Yen is more important to her then than Geralt? I can't remember the details or which book it's in though. So yeah, I suppose they're close, still not sure about specifically best friends though. Also not sure how their friendship changes over time.
The reason this forum is so skewed towards Triss is probably due to it being a direct line of complaint to CD Projekt Red so to speak. I mean there's a thread with hundreds of pages specifically full of people complaining about the "lack" of Triss content.
I really liked Yennefer in the game and while the game was a little "pushy" with the romance regarding her and Geralt, there were a lot of quests I really enjoyed from the perspective of the two being broken up and those were extremely well done because while the romance colored their encounters, I very much enjoyed the scenes where it was clear they were amicable exes as well.
The Favorite Moments of "Lilac and Gooseberries" from a Yennefer-Geralt Friendshipper
1. Yennefer arriving with Nilfgaard: That was a great moment for me becasue it's one of shock and betrayal as well as suspicion during an early part of the game. Geralt is looking for Yennefer and you can tell he's desperate, worried, and kind of terrified something has happened to her. The opening scene of the game shows her on a battlefield trying to avoid being killed and you assume Nilfgaard is hunting her down like a dog. Then you see her arrive with the Black Ones and it's a gut punch. Geralt is wondering, "What have you done, Yenn?" Then she explains why she's working for them.
And Geralt starts to do so too.
2. Yennefer and Queen Bran: Yennefer is a political animal in a way a certain other Sorceress isn't. Yennefer is good at playing the Game and easily slides into the role of being an important feature in Skellige. It's clear that the Cersei Lannister of the Island has all manner of ideas and is used to getting her way while Yennefer just causally deflects her without a care in the world. To me, I can't help but think if Yennefer had been there at the ball, she would have been there to prevent the massacre.
I just love how Geralt sits back and thinks, "Queen Bran thinks she's in Yennefer's League or a peer? Not even CLOSE."
3. The Theft Of the Mask: I was roleplaying from the Friendshipper Perspective with the Heist as Geralt and Yennefer were never going to be together again but the enjoyment those two had on the Heist was an easy-going collection of banter. A reminder of the good times which didn't require a romance between those two. Yennefer knows she can count on Geralt to be at her back even if it requires betraying someone he counts as a friend.
4. The "Gilligan Cut" of the Mask: I felt guilt over it when the Mask was revealed to be cursed but there was a HILARIOUS moment when Geralt is arguing with Erimond about the morality of using the Mask and then Yennefer just uses it while they're talking, essentially using Geralt as a distraction.
That was great.
5. The Summoning: A gut-wrenching moment and one of the most iconic in the game because Yennefer knows exactly what she's doing. Yennefer doesn't believe in Freya or the gods (which is kind of weird since she's met one) but knows this is a point of no return. Geralt is used to comforting spirits but Yennefer doesn't care.
She'd burn the world for her daughter.
Geralt was willing to as well but in the Friendshipper Path, he's also someone who knows Ciri might not want that.
6. Taking Responsibility: Even when they're still broken up (remember, there's no romance between Geralt and Yennefer at this time), Yennefer is protective of Geralt and his ability to continue working here in Skellige. She's perfectly willing to burn every bridge in Skellige if she has to as long as it gets her closer to Ciri but isn't going to drop that on Geralt alone. I also love how she just flat out IGNORES everyone who tries to shun her.
She's used to being hated and doesn't care. Skellige, though, is the last place on Earth save Kaer Morhen which Geralt can be treated as something other than a freak.
7. "The Breakup Speech": Yennefer explaining to Geralt that she didn't believe in his amnesia and that she felt his sleeping with Triss was a deal-breaker was a great moment. It was handled with cool professionalism. There's been too much between them for Yennefer to go all crazy like in the books. She's cool, calm, and professional but the eternal dance between them is over and they're going to just do their best to move on with their lives for Ciri's sake.
I really liked that.
8. "Well He is Her Father": When you bring Uma back to the Emperor of Nilfgaard and Yennefer struggles to rationalize working with Emhyrs. This is a great complicated scene where she's desperately looking for a reason to continue working with him. It's not because Emhyrs is a good person, he's not, but because she wants to believe there's something decent inside the man and that someone who loves Ciri like that can't be all bad.
Geralt's response in my case? No, there's nothing good in Emhyrs. Which hurts Yennfer because she is now the most powerful woman in the world at Emhyrs side--but it doesn't matter because Ciri is more important.
9. The Cross-dressing Drunk Dialing Megascope Scene: Just pure humor value of a Monty Python-esque level. What sort of alcohol is capable of getting three Witchers completely ****-faced? I have no idea but Yennefer's moment with those three is pure classic comedy. Plus, Yowsa, she's attractive.
I really hate the Lake Teleport scene as funny as it is in some ways because it kind of reverts her character a bit from the cool acceptance she had earlier. Still, this is a great "Boys will be boys" exasperation.
10. The Sadness of The Voyage back to Skellige: Yennefer is off to one side while Ciri is happy, laughing, and playing with her father. Ciri has grown up into a beautiful young woman and she's a Witcher. Not a Sorceress. Ciri still loves her mother, there's no doubt about that, but in terms of morality and the kind of person she wants to be--it's with Dad she's found her place.
This may change with the Empress version but I consider this to be the "canon" version. Yennefer's feelings don't change but its heartbreaking and sad to know your child will never share a certain relationship with you that she does with your ex.
11. "Sisters Before Misters": Geralt summons Triss to Kaer Morhen because they're in love but as we see if he chooses Yennefer, the friendship between Yennefer and Triss will never die. Triss betrayed Yennefer horribly several times but forever is a long time to hate and the redheaded sorceress has known betrayal by the Lodge as well as learned the meaning of self-sacrifice due to her association with Geralt. When Triss arrives at Kaer Morhen, the two immediately start planning how they're going to protect Ciri and walk together, thick as thieves, with Geralt behind them. Yennefer has put her jealousy and anger behind her--forgiving both. In the end, they will always have a place in each others' hearts, all three of them.
While not canon in my playthrough, I also take the view that Yennefer and Triss love each other (platonically or otherwise) too much to hate each other over Geralt. If he can't choose between them like Archie with Betty or Veronica, the two of them decide to choose their friendship over their romance with Geralt. They BOTH deserve better and will stand by each other no matter what, even if they're going to probably forgive Geralt as a friend.
all i can say is, it's good to see that there are triss fans that can get or atleast try to get yen, and not be all WHA WHA yen is a bitch BLABLALBA i hate her with no good reason, some of the points and the whole discussion in this thread has been quite a nice change of pace than whats happening in most of the "ALL MUST HATE YEN" threads, kudos to you peeps, may you keep your open mindedness.
I posted this in the Triss thread, but I wanted to ask you guys here what you thought:
I got the impression that they did a bit of a rewind on Geralt's and Yen's romance in Witcher 3. Having just finished reading the books, their feelings for each other by the end of Lady of the Lake are pretty intense. It took them 20 years, but it seemed like they finally "got it" after the assault of Stygga castle. I found it pretty surprising how lukewarm their relations were in Witcher 3 when, to me anyway, it seemed like their passion for each other became more intense the further into the books you got.
Yeah they had an extremely long period of an "on-off" fascination with each other, but that changes to something more as soon as Ciri joins the picture. The dialogue between Geralt and Yen is always quite passionate, even if they hide it, coloured by years of regret and longing. I never got that same impression in the game. When you go to King Bran's wake in the game, I would've loved to have seen some interactions between the two in the vein of the sorceress' ball in the books. Basically Yen keeping a very close eye on Geralt as he interacts with and fends off other guests. That was one of my favourite scenes from the books, because it showed a lot aspects of their relationship.
Just feels like they reverted their relationship to the days prior of Ciri's arrival.
I think the fact that Ciri is still out there is tuning it down to begin with. The first meeting with Yennefer would be totally different, if Ciri wasn't in danger. Getting Ciri is more important, top priority and everything else is second, we saw that in the books too.
When Yennefer was freed from her petrification, she immediately was looking for Ciri. The same goes for Geralt. Sure, Geralt couldn't be sure, whether Yennefer was also involved in the Thanedd Coup, but he goes also on a journey to find Ciri until he arrives at Toussaint and meets Fringilla. Finding Ciri was almost impossible after all this time, so Geralt, unable to find neither Yennfer nor Ciri, gets a little bit depressed and stays at Toussaint for a while until he learns where Yennefer is being held. Within a day he leaves everything behind and tries to get Yennefer.
, but you are right, when you have found Ciri and reconfirm your relationship with Yennefer, they could have make it more passionated again. That wouldn't have upset the Triss-fans, as they would never have seen this, and at the same time, Yen-fans would have got for what they were waiting 2 1/2 games
But as i said, i am quite satisfied with it overall. It's not perfect, but it gave me a good closure for the series.
ETA: Actually, I seem to recall a moment in one of the books where Triss discusses using the love spell on Geralt. I think she might mention that Yen is more important to her then than Geralt? I can't remember the details or which book it's in though. So yeah, I suppose they're close, still not sure about specifically best friends though. Also not sure how their friendship changes over time.
. . . she had seduced the witcher - with the help of a little magic. She had hit on a propitious moment, a moment when he and Yennefer had scratched at each other's eyes yet again and had abruptly parted. Geralt had needed warmth, and had wanted to forget. No, Triss had not desired to take him away from Yennefer. As a matter of fact, her friend was more important to her than he was. But her brief relationship with the witcher had not disappointed. She had found what she was looking for - emotions in the form of guilt, anxiety and pain. His pain. She had experienced his emotions, it had excited her and, when they parted, she had been unable to forget it. And she had only recently understood what pain is.
The moment when she had overwhelmingly wanted to be with him again. For a short while -
just for a moment - to be with him.
making it even worse.
Triss wanted the same as Yennefer has with Geralt, as she never had this kind of relationship (for the record, Triss wasn't/isn't the only one with this desire, at the Thanedd banquet almost every sorceress had her eyes on Geralt, well, except Philippa maybe). So she thought Geralt is the factor, which could give her the same feelings as Yennefer feeling.
Did it work? Seems so, when Triss meets Geralt at Kaer Morhen in the books, she is quite pushy to do it again with Geralt, but this time Geralt declines all offers. It seems to me that Triss also stopped pursuing it at all later, realizing that it wasn't exactly a nice way and maybe even realizing that she can't replace her or she was simply used by Geralt as a substitute. It's not only Triss, who made bad decisions. Triss might have used magic to seduced him, but it never occured to me that it totally against Geralt's will.
So i wouldn't blame Triss alone for this, Geralt, being the "nice guy", does his part too. It wasn't the first nor the last time that he took a woman as a substitute for Yennefer, only to realize after one night or some days that he can't replace her with another woman. The very first book even
That's something i am a little bit disappointed, since i thought the first 5-8 hours would be about finding her, while introducing her character to the player, but instead of that we find her quite quickly (or rather she did find us) just to part ways again.
It took me around 20-25 hours before i saw her again, because i had to finish all main story related quests in Velen/Novigrad first. I also thought that we would see at least one battle between the North and Nilfgaard, as the guy in the tavern at the start tells you a story about a sorceress with black hair, appearing in battles and making ruckus.
Reminded me of those really expensive items you always gather in RPGs, but never use. What's the purpose of an item you can only use once, but you never use it doesn't matter how urgent it is? THAT was an urgent situation, so the use of it justified it, at least for me.
To be honest she is rather cool or cold most of the time with Geralt sleeping with others. Only Triss was making her furious, as she thought from all she wouldn't do. Unlike others saying that Geralt is a dog to her she accepts quite reasonable what he is/was doing, unless you are rubbing it into her face, what is always a bad idea.
I never fully understand Emhyr's motives in the game, as they seem quite different to the books. That sentence "I will give her what she deserves." sounds so much more evil than good. But depending on what ending you get, it clearly shows that he actually wanted to help her after all, what is really weird considering what happened in the books at the end:
grave book spoiler about Ciri & Emhyr:
After Ciri is crying about leaving Geralt and Yennefer to die, Emhyr sends Ciri back to them and spares their lifes, he also leaves Ciri in their custody. Apparently he refrains from marrying the real Ciri (and making incest...) or even making her at least a successor to her.
What is completely contrary to what game-Emhyr wants, since it looks like CDPR changed his stance quite a bit, making him a much better person than you might think, as he wants the best for her now, whatever he thinks is the best for her. I doubted his motives until the very end, because i didn't believe him. Emhyr might be her biological father, but aside from that nothing connects them anymore.
Yennefer worked for the same reason(s) Letho did, she was forced to do so. Either she starts looking for Ciri, what she would have done in any way, or she will rot in a prison cell. After finding Ciri there is no more reason to work for Emhyr, so byebye. It is quite amusing that Philippa tries to convince Geralt to prompt Yennefer to give up her position at Emhyr's court, so she can fill it. Shows how few as possible she understands that there is something else than business.
I really hate the Lake Teleport scene as funny as it is in some ways because it kind of reverts her character a bit from the cool acceptance she had earlier. Still, this is a great "Boys will be boys" exasperation.
Louis CK - A man will rip off your arm and throw it into a river, but he will leave you as a human being intact. He won't mess with who you are. Women are non-violent but they will shit inside of your heart.
Maybe the biggest problem here is that Ciri abdicated
her magical powers, making her unable to use them as normal sorcerers do.
She was also always the wild one, playing mostly with boys. The lab scene is also quite synonymous for that, as it shows Geralt and Ciri messing up the place by force, while Yennefer is reluctant to do that, too, well, she has her fun to, but in a much more delicate way.
Would have been nice to see those three in a more formal situation.
all i can say is, it's good to see that there are triss fans that can get or atleast try to get yen, and not be all WHA WHA yen is a bitch BLABLALBA i hate her with no good reason, some of the points and the whole discussion in this thread has been quite a nice change of pace than whats happening in most of the "ALL MUST HATE YEN" threads, kudos to you peeps, may you keep your open mindedness.
One of the weird things about fandom is for them to divide into teams and this can never get more ridiculous than when people get so invested in a character they start bashing other characters, as if this were a sports team.
For me, this is exemplified by Leliana and Morrigan in Dragon Age: Origins. They're polar opposites, night and day, but they're both awesome female characters. They're both sexy, interesting, wonderful people with their share of flaws.
Indeed, they actually have more than surface similarities with Triss and Morrigan beyond being a redhead as well as a black haired sorceress. Triss is the "good" one of the pair who is seemingly noble, sweet, and innocent but she's hiding a pretty damning secret as well as a manipulative side. Yenner is a lot more ruthless than Triss and a lot less sympathetic to the surrounding peoples. She's also an atheist.
However, Morrigan is PASSIONATELY devoted to the Grey Warden if you manage to get through her thick skin just the way Yennefer can be if you devote yourself to her. Yennefer has your back in a way which Triss does not because the latter is a muddled mixture of feelings and conflicting loyalties.
Leliana is loyal to the Chantry to Justiania to her God and to her lover
Triss is loyal to the Mages to Kovir to Geralt to Yennefer and to Phillipa and the Lodge
Morrigan is loyal to her child and her lover
Yennefer loves Geralt and Ciri, screw everyone else.
They're complex characters and if you can't appreciate BOTH then you're missing out.
I never fully understand Emhyr's motives in the game, as they seem quite different to the books. That sentence "I will give her what she deserves." sounds so much more evil than good. But depending on what ending you get, it clearly shows that he actually wanted to help her after all, what is really weird considering what happened in the books at the end:
I think the choice of Charles Dance for Emhyr is an inspired choice because it puts people in mind of Tywin Lannister and you can immediately "grock" where CD_Red might be going with his character and values.
Emhyr is a ruthless monarch who murdered the people of Cintra but he's after Cirilla because he sees it as the possible means to save the world. The thing is, that DOESN'T absolve him of all the evil things he does (and hesitates to do) as part of his quest.
My Geralt was suspicious of Emhyr from the start because while he let Ciri go in the books, the simple fact is he could be like Triss and "change his mind." He might have decided, as the White Frost approaches, he could suck it up with the whole wedding his daughter thing.
Geralt never gets a chance to ask him about that.
It's also possible that Emhyr wants to secure his legacy as ruler of Nilfgaard at all costs. In which case, any feeling he might have for Ciri is secondary to the fact she's his heir and blood--which means, at the end of the day, she's still just an object to him, not a person.
It's why I got the Witcher ending, probably.
The thing is, I don't actually think Yennefer was being forced to work with Emhyr. I think she was voluntarily doing so once she was released from prison. It was a conveinance for her but I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't like the position. I also think Emhyr would have preferred Yennefer as his magical advisor to anyone else.
To be honest she is rather cool or cold most of the time with Geralt sleeping with others. Only Triss was making her furious, as she thought from all she wouldn't do. Unlike others saying that Geralt is a dog to her she accepts quite reasonable what he is/was doing, unless you are rubbing it into her face, what is always a bad idea.
The issue is, I believe, for a lot of players that Yennefer's romance with Geralt is counter-intuitive to the way romances are normally portrayed in video games but true to the books. The "Geralt is a dog" treatment only happens if you portray Geralt as respectful, polite, and good-natured to Yennefer;
In which case, it seems like she's insulting him for no reason all the time. Interesting, if you do this, her reactions change and she's kind of weirded out and uncomfortable. Which was a VERY nice piece of subtle characterization.
The "proper" way to do the romance of Yennefer/Geralt seems to be constantly getting up in her face.
Geralt calling her out on:
1. Working with Emhyr
2. Stealing the Mask
3. Endangering innocents
4. The Necromancy
5. Bringing Ciri to Emhyr
And so on and so on.
The Vitirol should fly between them and, in its own sick way, what would be emotional abuse in another relationship is actually just they show their affection. The two of them are always up in each other's faces and that's why they've had so much trouble. It's actually why I tended to lean to Triss/Geralt, ironically, because "this is a very high maintenance relationship."
But maybe Geralt wants that.
It's up to you.
I do think the fact Yennefer is put off by polite/respectful Geralt shows that CD_Red knew what they were doing, though, and realizing that they may have drifted apart. Their friendship is well-handled even if they're not lovers anymore and it's good after "The Last Wish" Geralt tries to reassure Yennefer that "I still want to hang out." It's just that's not what she wants.
One of the weird things about fandom is for them to divide into teams and this can never get more ridiculous than when people get so invested in a character they start bashing other characters, as if this were a sports team.
I am playing video games since almost 20 years, having internet for almost 15 years now and this was always the reason why i never invested myself much into gaming communities except this one here. Maybe the books also increased my desire to talk about it, i can't rule that out, since The Witcher is for me as for others is LotR or Harry Potter.
But sometimes i have to withhold myself from going into the "wrong" threads, as i can be quite stubborn or appear to only defend my opinion, not always easy to explain my own stance opposed to others with completely different ones.
It is indeed a little bit sad that the most active threads are only about the lovers of Geralt, as there is so much more about the world. We don't even have one Ciri spoiler thread despite her important role in the whole game.
listed by replies:
The choice-thread is obviously the biggest one, but the reason for that is quite simple, as you could (and still can) post and talk about anything related to them with no specific topic anymore.
I still wonder how i managed that, almost one post each page...i also still miss some people from that thread, as i thought they would be also interested in this thread as well, guess they haven't finished the game yet.
Generall speaking i have the feeling that much more people are here in this forum to criticize instead of discussing, one doesn't rule the other one out, but there is a thin wall between discussing a problem and flaming/blaming.
The thing is, I don't actually think Yennefer was being forced to work with Emhyr. I think she was voluntarily doing so once she was released from prison. It was a conveinance for her but I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't like the position. I also think Emhyr would have preferred Yennefer as his magical advisor to anyone else.
While the game quite simple explained how and why she worked with Emhyr, i have feared the worst before Witcher 3.
From Yennefer being still inprisoned and you have to rescue her by giving Ciri to Emhyr to Yennefer being brainwashed by Emhyr and openly attacking Geralt, while searching for Ciri to give her to Emhyr.
Or you find her during a battle, no memories at all, and you have to help her recover her memories. Depending on what you tell her, she changes her personality. Making it possible to create another Philippa or worse or a 2nd Triss, oh the horror
There were times when i wondered how CDPR is going to portray her in any good light, if you compare her with Triss. They have to make her look so much better, so people wouldn't dislike her at the very first moment. Sadly it seems it didn't worked that well out, as many see the more content for Yennefer is even a negative thing, but as we have seen in this thread not all are so quick finalizing their opinion.
One last thing about Emhyr (and i think we should maybe move that to another thread) there is also another prophecy about the child with elder blood, which the game didn't covered at all that
she will give birth to a child, which will reign about half the world and its child will reign about the whole world.
If they had included that as well in the game, it would have made much more sense that Emhyr wants her back again, as he is struggling to finish the war on his terms and this would guarantee that his bloodline keeps in charge and actually achieve world domination, what is probably the best case scenario for Nilfgaard.
Well said, I'm in the same boat as you on all those points.
After finishing the books I've got a very different opinion of Emhyr and his role in the game. In retrospect now, I am disappointed that we didn't get to see more information about the political situation and major players in the Empire. Seriously, Emhyr's agenda is so veiled it's difficult to discern what ramifications Ciri's choice to become empress would have. I got that ending on my first playthrough and even though I hadn't read the books at the time, I was put off by it on many levels. Now, I just feel sorry for that Ciri, heh.
I'll be doing another playthrough and being a lot more antagonistic towards Emhyr to see how that plays out and whether that changes anything. Not exactly sure how I will play out that particular arc yet though. I guess I'll end up telling Ciri not to go see him, not sure.
As for Yen, I find it hard to look back at the books and point at any one thing that really shows why they love each other so. It's like you said, they are always up in each other's faces and having conflicting views on matters. Yet, even in those moments you get the impression that they both really enjoy that. I got a strong impression of that reading the books. It's like the hellfire and claws are just par for the course and they both don't mind.
My opinion is that book Geralt's relationship is unlike any other he has. He certainly spends a lot of time with other women, but no one pushes back and is as much of a challenge as Yen. I think that her strength of character is primarily what elevates her in his eyes. The tempestuous nature of their relationship, while causing a lot of pain over the years, is something special and memorable for him. He doesn't like calm, safe and boring. Maybe a by-product of his Witcher's life.
Still, that was mostly my interpretation since Geralt never outlines his reasons of why he loves her so. There's certainly a fascination between them that keeps them in each other's orbit until they manage to climb over the various emotional obstacles they both have that separate them.
As for the breakup, I really don't know how Yen would cope with that. She's always felt extremely possessive of Geralt and even during breakups felt regret and longing for him, certainly in the second half of their 20 year relationship. She's a survivor and a tough cookie, would accept and deal with it, but I don't know if she would really get over it. Like you said she wants Geralt and seeing him reject her and ~choose~ someone else after always thinking of her over their years together + apart would draw on some extremely strong emotions. That's also ignoring Ciri's father/mother relationship with the two of them.
I guess it doesn't really matter since we wont see that play out, but I am convinced there would be some major fallout.
I did replay the Garden of Freya scene a while back and having Geralt have a different stance towards Yen. It was pretty interesting seeing the changes. You could go between two avenging angels kicking over everything looking for their daughter, to Geralt foolishly trying to impose his morals when it's very clear the wind is blowing another direction.
Geralt would take issue with those events in the Garden, but after the events of the last book, I also believe he'd not put up much of a fight about it either. Cool scene in any case.
One last thing about Emhyr (and i think we should maybe move that to another thread) there is also another prophecy about the child with elder blood, which the game didn't covered at all that
she will give birth to a child, which will reign about half the world and its child will reign about the whole world.
If they had included that as well in the game, it would have made much more sense that Emhyr wants her back again, as he is struggling to finish the war on his terms and this would guarantee that his bloodline keeps in charge and actually achieve world domination, what is probably the best case scenario for Nilfgaard.
Just to quickly comment on this. I thought that was the main reason he wanted Ciri.
It seems like he gave up on the idea of fathering a child with her, but he still wants to secure his legacy and keep the empire from falling apart. That means her child needs to be heir to the throne.
Considering how strongly he believes in the prophesy, it does explain his strong motivation to get what he wants. When you go see him during the Witcheress ending you could also interpret his "I never want to see you again, Witcher." line as him feeling angry that his plans to secure his legacy have been ruined. It is, after all, his main concern. Lannister as all heck.
But we never really deal with that part of the prophesy in the game, when it was constantly on everyone's minds in the books, which led to some messed up situations for Ciri. Who knows how that will pan out, if at all.
It is indeed a little bit sad that the most active threads are only about the lovers of Geralt, as there is so much more about the world. We don't even have one Ciri spoiler thread despite her important role in the whole game.
This is part of the reason I take umbrage with the whole, "The Witcher is not a dating sim!" statement, which is nonsensical in the least. It's the kind of attitude which is born from the attempt to limit storytelling and the kind of thing we should get over. My blog, "The United Federation of Charles" has a TV tropes.org page and one of the things posted on it was that its a webpage devoted to taking video games seriously as an artform. Which was never what I set out to do, but does reflect my opinion.
The Witche is about telling a story and romance is a part of that story, just as much as stabbing people. Yes, I'm sure there's one or two Witcher fans which fit the lonely basement dwelling nerd with a bunch of Triss/Yennefer/Ciri fanart and...yeah, I'm not going to continue this example, but I prefer to think peopel are just invested strongly in the characters. I just think they need to be able to accept some distance too.
If Triss and Yennefer can love each other as friends and forgive their past transgressions, we should be able to as fans.
There were times when i wondered how CDPR is going to portray her in any good light, if you compare her with Triss. They have to make her look so much better, so people wouldn't dislike her at the very first moment. Sadly it seems it didn't worked that well out, as many see the more content for Yennefer is even a negative thing, but as we have seen in this thread not all are so quick finalizing their opinion.
I think people really enjoyed Yennefer as a character for the most part but I also think they came into the game with a very specific sort of feeling toward it. Some people wanted to do "Geralt, Triss, and Yennefer" both for the 'huh, huh, huh' reasons and also because this is a very complicated series of relationships for both.
It's just you can't really untangle that very easily in a video game even with as good a writing crew as this.
I also think Triss fans would have been unsatisfied no matter what but I do think YENNEFER's arc is hurt with the skip overs. How does she feel regarding Geralt's choice? Aside from the "lake bit" we never really get any insight into things. Part of why I resist the "not a dating sim" things is I don't consider it any less mature to tackle the kind of intricate storytelling of these characters and feelings than just stabbing Drowners.
For me, I wanted a Yennefer Friendship with, "I want you to be part of my life, Yen, Ciri's life."
And I'd have been okay if Yennefer said, "No, Geralt, I can't do that. I need to find someone else and while I'll be part of Ciri's life. This is the end of us after this."
After finishing the books I've got a very different opinion of Emhyr and his role in the game. In retrospect now, I am disappointed that we didn't get to see more information about the political situation and major players in the Empire. Seriously, Emhyr's agenda is so veiled it's difficult to discern what ramifications Ciri's choice to become empress would have. I got that ending on my first playthrough and even though I hadn't read the books at the time, I was put off by it on many levels. Now, I just feel sorry for that Ciri, heh.
I think the developers really altered the storyline for Emhyr so they could appeal to the Nilfgaardian fanboys because they wanted to portray, "Heroes on Both Sides" or have Nilfgaard win the war because there's a massive skipover of content from the books which the rest of the game DOES NOT skip over. They have references left and right to events in the books but the relationship between Geralt and Emrys is portrayed as cold, antagonistic, and distasteful but CORDIAL.
And I don't think that many players would have much hesitation to have Geralt tell the Emperor to "Plough Off" if they knew:
1. The Emperor killed Ciri's mother, burned Ciri's homeland, and drove her grandmother to suicide.
2. The Emperor wanted to sire a child with his own daughter.
3. The Emperor hounded her across the Continent.
The Tywin Lannister comparison is not inexact as you're sending Tyrion back to the father who did the whole Tysha thing.
To me, it felt like Emrys was trying to buy Ciri's love by giving her a kingdom.
I also couldn't be sure he hadn't changed his mind about not pursuing his incest plan.
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As for the breakup, I really don't know how Yen would cope with that. She's always felt extremely possessive of Geralt and even during breakups felt regret and longing for him, certainly in the second half of their 20 year relationship. She's a survivor and a tough cookie, would accept and deal with it, but I don't know if she would really get over it. Like you said she wants Geralt and seeing him reject her and ~choose~ someone else after always thinking of her over their years together + apart would draw on some extremely strong emotions. That's also ignoring Ciri's father/mother relationship with the two of them.
Yeah, nothing can change the fact Yennefer is Ciri's mother and Geralt's father but, as in real-life, plenty of actual couples continue that sort of relationship with their child even after a separation. It's also not like Ciri isn't an adult and needs to live with one parent or the other now. It's an emotional gut punch, either way, that Yennefer and Geralt's relationship just didn't work out in the end (at least in that setting) but I think that's believable in the context of the game.
Geralt isn't the same man before his rebirth.
And that is terrible.
But he'll always be there for her.
I did replay the Garden of Freya scene a while back and having Geralt have a different stance towards Yen. It was pretty interesting seeing the changes. You could go between two avenging angels kicking over everything looking for their daughter, to Geralt foolishly trying to impose his morals when it's very clear the wind is blowing another direction.
The thing is, I think Geralt's moralizing is actually necessary here because one of the themes of the game is that Ciri is evolving into a true heroine. A bigger one than Geralt, himself, and he's the biggest one in the setting.
Blame Galahad's influence.
If Yennefer goes too far, if she kills the innocent or destroys the people Ciri loves like the Skelligs for her, Ciri would never forgive herself.
She knew Skjall for twenty minutes and she was DEVASTATED by his death.
The thing is, I think Geralt's moralizing is actually necessary here because one of the themes of the game is that Ciri is evolving into a true heroine. A bigger one than Geralt, himself, and he's the biggest one in the setting.
Blame Galahad's influence.
If Yennefer goes too far, if she kills the innocent or destroys the people Ciri loves like the Skelligs for her, Ciri would never forgive herself.
She knew Skjall for twenty minutes and she was DEVASTATED by his death.
That and Geralt's offering resistance to Yen also makes the whole relationship work. Pretty sure Yen doesn't want a yes man, even if that makes things more turbulent. It's Geralt's default mode, really.
As for Ciri, I was a little confused as to just why she feels so completely distraught by people sacrificing themselves for her. Yeah, you should be when someone does that for you but the extent to which those two people dying affected her so much that there needs to be some reasoning to why it's so powerful.
It seems to me like there's some underlying emotional pain fueling those moments, but we can only guess as to what that may be.
Resentment towards her being chased due to powers she never asked to have?
The seeming futility of it all at that point in the story?
Influence of people she met between the books and W3, like Galahad for example?
We don't know as it's never really talked about. I really wanted Geralt to have a talk with Ciri about where she stands, but that never really happens so we're left wondering and fill in the missing pieces ourselves.
I romanced Triss this time and called Yennefer out on every turn, I noticed she's less cold if you call her out on her shit more rather than kiss her ass.
Personally, I've never been a fan of the notion that you love someone 'because...' It's rather about loving someone DESPITE something not because of it. Not to mention even that is way too hard to explain...You just do. And so does Geralt. Plain and simple.
What do you guys think about the Yen's ending? They finally get to have a peaceful life away from politics and just be with one another.
Do you remember that Geralt wished excactly this in the chapter 3 in Time of Contempt? it was great to notice that
...Yen reads his mind as she always does once they are done making love. Geralt knowing this always thinks of beautiful things just for her, but on this occasion he let his mind wander too far and she read too far into his mind. She saw a cottage in the middle of nowhere, where she was looming wool and he was coming home from a hunt. Where they would not be bothered, not affected by war. They would be alone just them two. On some weekends Ciri would come with her husband and their children. They would dine and laugh together and forget the world around them even exists...
As someone who picked Triss for my first playthrough (hence my avatar) I may have to actually pick Yen for my 2nd playthrough based on the OP. To me Yen just came off as cold and uninviting, but I see she does have her reasons to be that way. Without a doubt though, Triss needs more content, and it remains for me to see if Yen needs more content too after Novigard, but from what I'm hearing Yen has plenty more content than Triss does.
Hopefully that means I'll be more satisfied with my love interest choice the 2nd time around in picking Yen, even though I'll still feel like a gigantic ass having to say goodbye to Triss in Novigrad. Just wish there was a better way to handle that scene.
