The Bittersweet Ending is actually a Bad Ending ... and it's All Geralt's Fault. [SPOILERS]

[andykww]

I do feel like the Empress ending wasn't fully explored or fleshed out. The story didn't quite explain what Emhyr said to her to convince her to do a 180 and why she chose to be empress.

I guess you could say how she accepted her Elder blood fate and to defeat the White Frost akin to accepting her royal lineage and becoming Empress. Whereas beforehand she was running away and trying to escape her destiny.

 

[CTPhipps]

I do feel like the Empress ending wasn't fully explored or fleshed out. The story didn't quite explain what Emhyr said to her to convince her to do a 180 and why she chose to be empress.

I guess you could say how she accepted her Elder blood fate and to defeat the White Frost akin to accepting her royal lineage and becoming Empress. Whereas beforehand she was running away and trying to escape her destiny.

Another thing which isn't mentioned is defeating the White Frost is NOT her destiny but her SON'S.

Which means Ciri defies destiny by defeating it.

Which is AWESOME.

 

[frozenkex]

Another thing which isn't mentioned is defeating the White Frost is NOT her destiny but her SON'S.

Which means Ciri defies destiny by defeating it.

Which is AWESOME.

or simply the game doesn't follow the books 100%... which it shouldn't anyway.

 

[soldiergeralt]

the world of the witcher is not conducive to happy fairytale endings, so the "bad" ending is probably the best ending, and the most meaningful conclusion for the entire saga

 

[Gerald01]

or simply the game doesn't follow the books 100%... which it shouldn't anyway.

Yes it seems like that. It can't be a theme for the game since it is literally never mentioned ever in said format. Retcon for sure.

---------- Updated at 10:18 PM ----------

the world of the witcher is not conducive to happy fairytale endings, so the "bad" ending is probably the best ending, and the most meaningful conclusion for the story.

Which one are you referring to? The Ciri MIA/KIA?

 

[soldiergeralt]

the most detailed ending mentioned in the original topic, which i believe is the "canon" ending

 

[Gerald01]

the most detailed ending mentioned in the original topic, which i believe is the "canon" ending

Yes, well I agree. But don't underestimate the badness in the other 2 endings also. One is obvious, but the Witcher one too (hint: what does it mean for her actually? how's gonna play out over the years after the initial sense of hope/relief?)

As far as canon goes, no way to tell, unless they decide for a sequel, but yes, it's the one fitting best with all the other secondary ones.

 

[yoobzon]

Another thing which isn't mentioned is defeating the White Frost is NOT her destiny but her SON'S.

Which means Ciri defies destiny by defeating it.

Which is AWESOME.

Are we sure she defeated the Frostt? (whatever that would actually mean). We just see her climb a snowy hill in what probably is the Aenn Elle world. No ending actually says that the White Frost has been vanquished. In my interpretation, she just helps the Aenn Elle travel to another realm (only she can teleport an entire nation out of there). Subsequently:

The Bad Ending(the swamp ending) - She stays with the Aenn Elle and agrees to give birth to the Child of Prophecy so that she can help the Aenn Elle survive and prosper. Everyone in our universe has let her down so she just doesnt return

The Good Ending( the White Orchard ending) - She helps the Aenn Elle evacuate but then decides to come back to help the people of Nilfgaard since Emhyr makes her realize she is the only person who can unite the continent.

The so called "Bittersweet ending" (or as I'd like to call it the Selfish Ending) - She helps the Aenn Elle evacuate but seeing as Avallach is clearly trying to play her, she decides to return to the only person in the entire multiverse who has always been straight with her, our dear Giraldo Rivera.

At any rate, I don't think the white frost can be vanquished by someone who can't even fully control her powers yet. Besides, It has to be her son , that's what the prophecy says

Coming back to your OP @robertbrockman2 I strongly disagree with the OP. The Wittcheress ending is clearly not the happy one if you really analyze it instead of thinking of it as a fan. As much as love the idea of Geralt and Ciri kicking some serious ass together it just makes no sense for either of them. For Geralt, it makes no sense cos he would be letting his daughter constantly risk her life. "No Witcher has ever died in his own bed" Do you really think ANY father would let his child take up this profession if they had a choice? Why do you think Witchers have to take in Children of Surprise? Because no sane parent will ever allow their offspring to be a witcher! Geralt would never ever stand by it even if she went all stubborn and started witchering.

It also makes no sense for Ciri. Ciri would never forego a chance to help millions of people just to spend more time with dad. She might be stubborn and immature at times but at the end of the day she understands that she is probably the only person on the continent who can actually stop the neverending conflict. Due to her unique heritage, literally everyone would be OK with her being the Empress. Just by stopping the conflicts she would automatically save thousands of lives. She might not be overjoyed by the prospect of ruling over Nilfgaard but that's what she'll do.

The Bittersweet ending is the worst ending although I liked it the most on the emotional level

 

[CTPhipps]

or simply the game doesn't follow the books 100%... which it shouldn't anyway.

They reference really-really obscure stuff.

So I'm assuming the books are 100% canon unless directly contradicted.

It's not like it's relevant.

Ciri is powerful enough to do it so she does.

No ending actually says that the Wgite Frost has been vanquished.]

Man, what?

1:30

"The White Cold. You're familiar with the prophecy? Ciri tried to stop it. She succeeded but paid the utlimate price."

---------- Updated at 10:57 PM ----------

Coming back to your OP @robertbrockman2 I strongly disagree with the OP. The Wittcheress ending is clearly not the happy one if you really analyze it instead of thinking of it as a fan. As much as love the idea of Geralt and Ciri kicking some serious asstogether it just makes no sense for either of them. For Geralt, it makes no sense cos he would be letting his daughter constantly risk her life. "No Witcher has ever died in his own bed" Do you really think ANYfather would let his child take up this profession if they had a choice? Why do you think Witchers have to take in Children of Surprise? Because no sane parent will ever allow their offspring to be a witcher! Geralt would never ever stand by it even if she went all stubborn and started witchering.

Fathers encourage their daughters to become police officers, firemen, and soldiers all the time. The Witchers also take Children via the Law of Surprise because THEY'RE LOOKING FOR THE CHOSEN CHILD WHO CAN BE A WITCHER WITHOUT MUTATIONS. Geralt explains it in, "The Sword of Destiny."

Calanthe points out that Witchers don't need the Law of Surprise because they could just buy babies off the street or take in the hundreds of war orphans which go starving every year.

It also makes no sense for Ciri. Ciri would never forego a chance to help millions of people just to spend more time with dad. She might be stubborn and immature at times but at the end of the day she understands that she is probably the only person on the continent who can actually stop the neverending conflict. Due to her unique heritage, literally everyone would be OK with her being the Empress. Just by stopping the conflicts she would automatically save thousands of lives. She might not be overjoyed by the prospect of ruling over Nilfgaard but that's what she'll do.

The Bittersweet ending is the worst ending although I liked it the most on the emotional level

This logic basically implies Nilfgaard isn't one of the most brutal, totalitarian, ruthless dictatorships in the world. Ciri by taking the throne is becoming a part of a system which brutally suppresses and destroys other people. She is not going to be able to magic-wand away slavery, oppression, Imperial apartheid, and other evils.

She'll have to make compromises or engage in ruthless purges and other stuff which may or may not help anyone.

It's the "Princess Leia becomes Empress of the Galaxy" ending. Yes, Ciri migtht be able to make changes but she's also saved the world. Her burden is over and she can do what she wants now. I'm not saying the Empress Ciri ending isn't a good one but I don't get where people think the Empress ending is necessarily hopeful.

Nilfgaard is a deadly decadent court and EMHYR could barely keep control over it. Emhyr one of the most capable, ruthless, brilliant politicians in the world.

 

[yoobzon]

They reference really-really obscure stuff.

So I'm assuming the books are 100% canon unless directly contradicted.

It's not like it's relevant.

Ciri is powerful enough to do it so she does.



Man, what?

1:30

"The White Cold. You're familiar with the prophecy? Ciri tried to stop it. She succeeded but paid the utlimate price."

That's what Geral says to Emhyr while lying to him about Ciri, I'm sorry but it aint enough for me again, it's just a theory that makes most sense to me. I'm far from suggesting this should be canon. But think about it? she enters the portal with incomplete knowledge of her own powers and couple of weeks later she returns having beaten an ancient power that has plagued the universe for millions of years? Doesnt make much sense to me.

 

[CTPhipps]

That's what Geral says to Emhyr while lying to him about Ciri, I'm sorry but it aint enough for me again, it's just a theory that makes most sense to me. I'm far from suggesting this should be canon. But think about it? she enters the portal with incomplete knowledge of her own powers and couple of weeks later she returns having beaten an ancient power that has plagued the universe for millions of years? Doesnt make much sense to me.

She killed millions-of-year-old evil witches the week before.

Ciri seems to think the White Frost is gone.

Older doesn't mean tougher, it just means older.

 

[yoobzon]

She killed millions-of-year-old evil witches the week before.

Ciri seems to think the White Frost is gone.

Older doesn't mean tougher, it just means older.

True, though I refuse to remember the way the plot deals with the Crones The Crones are suggested to be this ancient force eith superb precognition abilities and then Ciri comes in , goes "Pew Pew" and they are dead. And THEN, in the bad ending, although Geralt suggests earlier that the Crones could kill him in a heartbeat (Return to the Crookback Bog quest), he goes back and kills the last Crone. Does he go Super Saiyan in the meantime or what?

I disagree with the plot critics on all matters. What they seem to forget is how the Crones plotline is handled. This is horrible, I dont accept this

 

[MrBlu3]

A part of Ithline's prophecy explained "Ciri's child would rule half the world, and the son of her son would rule the whole world."

This is the reason why Emhyr wants Ciri, not because it's his child and that he loves her. This is why he had plans to have a child with his own daughter, Ciri. Because his blood-line would live on with the son of Ciri who'll rule half the world, and eventually a grandson who'd rule the whole world. He of course sees this as a perfect win for Nilfgaard, his own blood ruling the whole world. It's explained that an offspring of the elder blood will destroy the world in flames. If not Ciri then why not the grandson who'd rule the whole world? He'd maybe not destroy the world in flames specifically but with his ruling, afterall as the ruler of the world he'll be the most feared person there is, bringing chaos as he rules with an iron fist. Either that or someone else in Nilfgaard will have Ciri's child, like Voorhis who's Emhyr's loyal General.

So when you think about it, the prophecy will most likely be furfilled if Ciri becomes the empress. Her grandson spreading the Nilfgaardian flag over the whole world, a new mad emperor using his elder blood powers to controll everything and everyone. So you're kinda creating the beginning of the end if you make that choise as Geralt. So Geralt is just not to blame for her being the empress, but also for destroying the world.

 

[CTPhipps]

True, though I refuse to remember the way the plot deals with the Crones The Crones are suggested to be this ancient force eith superb precognition abilities and then Ciri comes in , goes "Pew Pew" and they are dead. And THEN, in the bad ending, although Geralt suggests earlier that the Crones could kill him in a heartbeat (Return to the Crookback Bog quest), he goes back and kills the last Crone. Does he go Super Saiyan in the meantime or what?

I disagree with the plot critics on all matters. What they seem to forget is how the Crones plotline is handled. This is horrible, I dont accept this

Geralt said that Ciri and he were going to come back and kill them.

Which is exactly what he did.

I also believe they WERE ancient gods.

 

[Gerald01]

@MrBlu3 In the books...

 

[MrBlu3]

@MrBlu3 In the books...

The prophecy is in the game too. Maybe not that Emhyr wants to have a child with his own daughter, but that her grandson will rule the whole world. It could be canon or non-canon, who knows. Still a pretty interesting thought though!

 

[CTPhipps]

@MrBlu3 In the books...

I don't agree that there's anything non-canonical about the books until directly contradicted on screen. People thought Ciri and Yennefer were written out until they both played a HUGE role.

 

[Gerald01]

I don't agree that there's anything non-canonical about the books until directly contradicted on screen. People thought Ciri and Yennefer were written out until they both played a HUGE role.

Again? The White Frost is all different. Ciri has zipzapping blue powers. For starters.

 

[CTPhipps]

Again? The White Frost is all different. Ciri has zipzapping blue powers. For starters.

The White Frost IS a direct change.

However, that's shown on screen.

Ciri's zip-zapping powers can be ascertained from her time in the past few years.

Retcons, for me, require retcon proof.

An in-game document or something which says, "Emhyr never married."

I'm just Saiyin.

 

[Gerald01]

The White Frost IS a direct change.

However, that's shown on screen.

Ciri's zip-zapping powers can be ascertained from her time in the past few years.

Retcons, for me, require retcon proof.

An in-game document or something which says, "Emhyr never married."

I'm just Saiyin.

You mean it's NOT shown on screen?

What about the abdication plot? Makes no sense if there's a false Ciri and/or Emhyr wanna marry her. Plus unless Ciri is 100% oblivious to the fact, I'm pretty sure her reaction to the Empress ending would be different.

It's, in my opinion, a simple matter of format. Not suited for videogames at all, got retconned.
Prophecy and White Frost? Needed a big hero and big doomsday thingamagic, retconned.

It's the most logical conclusion, given all the evidence points to this. But of course, that's never stopped fans.