Reasonable Suggestions for an Enhanced Edition of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt.

[Scholdarr.452]

I still like the White Frost business.

And why is that so? What does it add to the narrative? I mean you cannot deny the fact that it is not only against the lore established in the books (and the games through ingame books) but also against the philosophy of good storytelling that you don't introduce a new topic to a story right at the end (hence the deus ex machina). For making the White Frost meaningful you'd have to change not only ending but the whole game at various points, preparing the players for that ending and giving reasonable context. That would be a TON of work without any real narrative benefit because it's something that doesn't change much on the personal side or the relationships between Ciri and Geralt. It's an abstract theme that is pretty much detached from the relationships and it's also completely unnecessary to explore these relationships (as my suggestion clearly shows). That's why I think that the whole White Frost thing should remain unresolved and largely untouched in TW3.

I'm not a big fan of having an "Elf" ending but I understand the desire to have a Lady of Time ending.

You want to have a bad ending instead that just punishes the player for making the "wrong" decisions in unclear choice situations. Sorry, but I can't understand that. Not at all. The point of choices in the game should be to make meaningful choices with real alternatives. If you don't like Ciri to follow her bloodline and her heritage you could still try to convince her to do something else, either becoming empress or becoming a witcheress. The point is that in the game - as it is right now - the bad ending isn't an "active" choice you'd make on purpose. It's not a real alternative, it's just a punishment, a cynical "game over" screen right at the end. I think this is one of the clearest and biggest flaws of the game.

 

[CostinRaz]

I think Scholdarr suggestion would really go a VERY long way towards solving a lot of the problems regarding the ending without requiring a massive overhaul.

 

[Pug.]

Well, I won't add to the myriad of suggestions for additional Triss content. Those have been clearly articulated over here: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...and-the-inconsistency-of-our-romance-s-choice

Suffice it to say that I fully support fleshing out her romance and character arc, adding more Triss dialogue and scenes, etc.

Other miscellaneous suggestions:

+ Elaborate on what happens to Priscilla. As it stands, Dandelion doesn't comment on her ultimate fate, nor do we encounter her again after the "Carnal Sins" questline.

+ Give the player another opportunity to speak to Ves and Roche. After the "Reasons of State" questline, he tells Geralt to come see him in Vizima, and that he will be given a hero's welcome, but Roche and Ves are nowhere to be seen in the epilogue.

+ I would really like to see something in Act 3 that is equivalent to the drinking scene at Kaer Morhen. A chance for everyone (Yennefer, Triss, Geralt, Ciri, Dandelion, Zoltan, etc.) to have one last drunken round of celebrating before parting ways and confronting the Big Bad.

+ The epilogue ("Something ends, Something Begins") could really use expanding, in my opinion. It goes by so quick, and there really isn't an opportunity to bid farewell to these characters whom we have grown to care for so much.

 

[CTPhipps]

And why is that so? What does it add to the narrative? I mean you cannot deny the fact that it is not only against the lore established in the books (and the games through ingame books) but also against the philosophy of good storytelling that you don't introduce a new topic to a story right at the end (hence the deus ex machina). For making the White Frost meaningful you'd have to change not only ending but the whole game at various points, preparing the players for that ending and giving reasonable context. That would be a TON of work without any real narrative benefit because it's something that doesn't change much on the personal side or the relationships between Ciri and Geralt. It's an abstract theme that is pretty much detached from the relationships and it's also completely unnecessary to explore these relationships (as my suggestion clearly shows). That's why I think that the whole White Frost thing should remain unresolved and largely untouched in TW3.

1. The White Frost was introduced in The Witcher as something which was going to destroy Geralt's world in his lifetime. We saw Vizima covered in a huge blanket of snow and everyone dead as a result of it. It is a hanging plotline which hasn't been dealt with much since Jacques. Likewise, we've had this element introduced as the reason for the Wild Hunt needing Ciri even if it's a retcon from the books. We also saw it with Geralt visiting the ice world. Leaving the, "Ice Storm destroys the world" plot unresolved is going to leave a massive amount of hanging feeling for any game which purports to be the end of Geralt's saga even for a little while.

On a thematic level, though, it completes the storyline of the game which is not about Geralt but Geralt accepting that Ciri accepting that Ciri is grown up. Of her coming into her own as not only a hero but a greater hero than he is. Geralt passes the torch to Ciri and she destroys Unicron to make a Transformers: The movie reference. Ciri SHOULD have been the one to kill Eredin but because Geralt kills Eredin, Ciri has to one up him by destroying something infinitely worse. The entire game has been banging over our heads that Ciri is trying to become a woman who can defend herself and doesn't need protection anymore after Kaer Morhen and we can't really have that if Geralt is killing Eredin and other major characters instead of her.

No, Ciri defeats the White Frost, svaes the Multiverse, and becomes the greatest Witcher of all time. You can expand on the White Frost's danger to the world in the rest of the game (especially if you add more Eredin and Avallach dialogue) but it should remain so.

You want to have a bad ending instead that just punishes the player for making the "wrong" decisions in unclear choice situations. Sorry, but I can't understand that. Not at all. The point of choices in the game should be to make meaningful choices with real alternatives. If you don't like Ciri to follow her bloodline and her heritage you could still try to convince her to do something else, either becoming empress or becoming a witcheress. The point is that in the game - as it is right now - the bad ending isn't an "active" choice you'd make on purpose. It's not a real alternative, it's just a punishment, a cynical "game over" screen right at the end. I think this is one of the clearest and biggest flaws of the game.

2. I disagree as I think it plays an important narrative role. Also, a lot of people consider it artistically beautiful for a reason. The Witcher is a place which should deserve an "unhappy ending" and the idea that Ciri dies is an important narrative element because we, the player, should know Ciri is Suicidal during the Game. This is an element carried over from the books that Ciri is in a Bad Place.

I find something beautiful in the fact that Ciri is willing to die because she is sick of being a burden to her parents and thinks, once she's dead, they'll be able to move on.

Only to be HIDEOUSLY WRONG and Geralt unwilling to carry on without her.

---------- Updated at 04:03 PM ----------

I think Scholdarr suggestion would really go a VERY long way towards solving a lot of the problems regarding the ending without requiring a massive overhaul.

DIfferent strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[fishful]

I would like an explanation for why Keira runs off with Lambert at a time when you are desperately looking for sorceresses to you know, save the world.

She does say if she knew what would happen in Kaer Morhen she wouldn't have agreed to come. As far as I'm concerned she and Lambert have done enough. And in the ending where she does find a cure for the Catriona? I'd consider that an accomplishment just as important as helping Geralt defeat the Wild Hunt.

In regards to the endings of certain characters it would be nice to have some more screens during the epilogue narrating what happens to them:

Phillipa Eilhart - Does she actually manage to become the Royal Advisor to Emhyr or Ciri? How does her future look? She does have a tendency to get out alive of some nasty situations and you could say they are indebted to her. Or do they find the voice of reason and decide to decapitate her once and for all?

Dandelion / Priscilla - Some closure to their story regardless of which ending you picked. You might as well say Priscilla never recovered her voice in the Witcher ending since it's never mentioned.

Triss / Yenefer - I want to know their fates regardless of which I chose.

The witchers Letho and Eskel - I never asked them to stay at Kaer Morhen and I'd like to know where they headed after the battle. Would they still meet with Geralt from time to time to catch up? Is any heard from again ever?

The Baron and his family - Does he find a cure for Anna, does Tamara ever forgive him or is at least able to stomach his presence if he sobered up?

Avallac'h - I just assumed he went back to the world of the Aen Elle. He's a mysterious character but that doesn't mean he shouldn't at least be mentioned. He does sustain a powerful spell in the Tower that must have taken it's toll on him. Is he well, disappeared without a trace or ever contacted anyone again? Is there hope for peace with the Aen Elle now?

The remaining members of the Lodge - Does Emhyr fulfill his end of the bargain? I'd assume Empress Ciri would've but Emhyr did betray Letho and I see no reason why he wouldn't do the same to the Lodge. We know he lets Yeneffer go during the Witcher Ending but what about Rita, Ida, Francesca? I assume Fringila will be in the Touissant Expansion.

Zoltan - Think he'll stay with Dandelion as some kind of bodyguard? They make an excellent pair. Still hope to see specifics. He paid off his debt to the King of Beggars in my playthrough so I want to know what he's up to now.

The Crone who survives (Weavess?) - After the fight with Imlireth, Ciri shows up with another wolf medallion. I thought maybe Geralt gave her the one he took from the impersonator in Lindenvale but then again Triss' pendant is still with her even if you let her landlord take it so maybe it's a continuity error? Fix that in this case or show us how they took those back.

There's probably a bunch of characters I forgot, in which case I'll add them to the list later.

 

[latios507]

Post-end content. That's what I'm looking for. Fix that and voila, a fitting finale to Geralt's adventure.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

1. The White Frost was introduced in The Witcher as something which was going to destroy Geralt's world in his lifetime. We saw Vizima covered in a huge blanket of snow and everyone dead as a result of it. It is a hanging plotline which hasn't been dealt with much since Jacques. Likewise, we've had this element introduced as the reason for the Wild Hunt needing Ciri even if it's a retcon from the books. We also saw it with Geralt visiting the ice world. Leaving the, "Ice Storm destroys the world" plot unresolved is going to leave a massive amount of hanging feeling for any game which purports to be the end of Geralt's saga even for a little while.

The White Frost was always a force of nature in both the books and the games and not some entity that could be defeated. And no, the White Frost was NOT introcuted as something that was going to destroy Geralt's world in his lifetime. That was just the ill-guided perception of a madman. It was just another prophecy, nothing more. And in Witcher 1-3 there was never any concept presented or introduced that the White Frost could be defeated - everything people did in respect ot the frost was how to deal with it and to to ensure the personal survial in the event. The White Frost as defeatable entity that lives in another world or time or whatever wasn't introduced until the last 5 minutes of TW3 - hence the deus ex machina moment and hence the huge inconsistencies in storytelling.

On a thematic level, though, it completes the storyline of the game which is not about Geralt but Geralt accepting that Ciri accepting that Ciri is grown up. Of her coming into her own as not only a hero but a greater hero than he is. Geralt passes the torch to Ciri and she destroys Unicron to make a Transformers: The movie reference. Ciri SHOULD have been the one to kill Eredin but because Geralt kills Eredin, Ciri has to one up him by destroying something infinitely worse. The entire game has been banging over our heads that Ciri is trying to become a woman who can defend herself and doesn't need protection anymore after Kaer Morhen and we can't really have that if Geralt is killing Eredin and other major characters instead of her.

Nope. While I agree that probably the main narrative point of TW3 is that Ciri grows up I very much disagree with the concept how that should be transported. Growing up means making your own decisions. The point of the game was never to present a Ciri that needs to be stronger or better than Geralt - there is no point to that anyway. The point of the narrative was to explore the relationship between Geralt and Ciri and how that leads to her growing up and making own decisions. That is perfectly depicted in my suggestion. You don't need the White Frost for that at all. Ciri doesn't need to destroy something that is even worse or stronger than Eredin. What for? How does that make her more mature or grown up? I don't get why Ciri has to become a greater hero than Geralt. In the end pretty much of the narrative of the series is focused on having the chance not to become a hero and just step back. What you want is forcing Ciri to become a hero. And since CDPR lacked the storytelling means to do that they came up with a weird and underdeveloped deus ex machina moment. In the end, this is and should be a game about Geralt, not about Ciri. Ciri is the main storytelling topic, but we play as Geralt and see the world through his eyes, experiencing his story. And if Ciri wants to become a hero she still can do so in the future. Point is that this is not needed to bring Geralt's story to closure.

No, Ciri defeats the White Frost, svaes the Multiverse, and becomes the greatest Witcher of all time. You can expand on the White Frost's danger to the world in the rest of the game (especially if you add more Eredin and Avallach dialogue) but it should remain so.

This is an incredibly anti-climatic and boring concept (that neglects huge parts of the whole Witcher storytelling concept from both the books AND the games). And as I've said even if you want to do so it would require A TON of additional content to make even a half decent version of that story.

I disagree as I think it plays an important narrative role. Also, a lot of people consider it artistically beautiful for a reason. The Witcher is a place which should deserve an "unhappy ending" and the idea that Ciri dies is an important narrative element because we, the player, should know Ciri is Suicidal during the Game. This is an element carried over from the books that Ciri is in a Bad Place.

I find something beautiful in the fact that Ciri is willing to die because she is sick of being a burden to her parents and thinks, once she's dead, they'll be able to move on.

None of the ending I've presented are "happy". They are all ambigious. They can all be interpreted in different ways, having both happy and unhappy elments. That's the Witcher formula. That's how Sapkowski envisioned this world. Something ends, something begins. In everything. In every possible way. The world is grim and dark and full of terrors but there is always hope. Not just in one possible way but in any. That's also the concept of "the lesser evil". Everything you do have ambigious consequences with shades of dark and light. Happy vs. unhappy ending denies that concept. It also denies the concept of meaningful choices. There is no artistic beauty to that.

And no, Ciri was NEVER suicidal in the books. Never. Especially not at the end. Not even talking about that none of the decisive events in the games could possibly lead a human being to commit suicide (a suicide that is in itself insanely underdevelope in the game).

But I guess you just like Witcher 3 to be a puzzle game instead of an RPG with meaningful choices that follows the famous Witcher mantra of "the lesser evil". I don't. I think it's one of the central flaws of the games which makes it a lot worse than both TW2 and TW1...

 

[Zbotz]

An Enhanced Edition just needs a more or less completely rewritten ending and some improvments in the way to get there during the final act.

I'm completely fine with 2 of the endings, imo they don't really have to rewrite anything, the only thing that's missing are explanations for the Empress ending and your version doesn't really offer me those either.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Post-end content. That's what I'm looking for. Fix that and voila, a fitting finale to Geralt's adventure.

Post-end content to an end that sucks? Meh...

First fix the end itself. Then think about possible post-end content. izza:

 

[CTPhipps]

Post-end content to an end that sucks? Meh...

First fix the end itself. Then think about possible post-end content. izza:

Yeah, some of us disagree with your take.

Let's just say that.



But no Enhanced Edition is going to satisfy everyone.

The White Frost was always a force of nature in both the books and the games and not some entity that could be defeated. And no, the White Frost was NOT introcuted as something that was going to destroy Geralt's world in his lifetime. That was just the ill-guided perception of a madman. It was just another prophecy, nothing more. And in Witcher 1-3 there was never any concept presented or introduced that the White Frost could be defeated - everything people did in respect ot the frost was how to deal with it and to to ensure the personal survial in the event.

And yeah, the White Frost isn't supposed to come for 3000 years but Jacques Aldersberg said he needed to take over Temeria NOW in order to save everyone and make his mutants NOW.

And the same buildings in Vizima are buried under the White Frost future he takes you to.

The White Frost as defeatable entity that lives in another world or time or whatever wasn't introduced until the last 5 minutes of TW3 - hence the deus ex machina moment and hence the huge inconsistencies in storytelling.

We see a world destroyed by the White Frost in Geralt's dimensional jaunt. We just needed the fact the elves are suffering from it better elaborated on (there's a document in the part where you meet Eredin's chancellor).

Ciri is the main storytelling topic, but we play as Geralt and see the world through his eyes, experiencing his story. And if Ciri wants to become a hero she still can do so in the future. Point is that this is not needed to bring Geralt's story to closure.

Well, Ciri doesn't get her "moment" to shine if Geralt kills Eredin. Defeating the White Frost is as good a climax as anything.

This is an incredibly anti-climatic and boring concept (that neglects huge parts of the whole Witcher storytelling concept from both the books AND the games). And as I've said even if you want to do so it would require A TON of additional content to make even a half decent version of that story.

I disagree strongly.

And no, Ciri was NEVER suicidal in the books. Never. Especially not at the end. Not even talking about that none of the decisive events in the games could possibly lead a human being to commit suicide (a suicide that is in itself insanely underdevelope in the game).

Ciri wanted to kill herself under the whole business with Leo Bonhart. Also, the whole POINT of Vesemir's death is to put Ciri in that place.

Ciri believes she's getting her friends killed protecting her and doesn't want people she loves dying to do so.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Yeah, some of us disagree with your take.

Let's just say that.



But no Enhanced Edition is going to satisfy everyone.

I know that. But like other people state their opinion over and over and over again (just look at the 800 pages of the Triss thread...) I do so as well. Based on the reactions of CDPR in this very thread that also seems to work...

And yeah, the White Frost isn't supposed to come for 3000 years but Jacques Aldersberg said he needed to take over Temeria NOW in order to save everyone and make his mutants NOW.

And the same buildings in Vizima are buried under the White Frost future he takes you to.

Jacques was a lunatic. And it's not the definite future he took you to, it was just his imagination of a possible future.

It's a fact that NOBODY in TW2 or TW3 at least talks about the White Frost being a direct theat to the earth or to themselves. Nobody is concerned about that in a way that would require direct action. Everyone acts like the White Frost is just a far away threat if at all. Actually nobody even talks about it in TW3. It's not important in TW3 until the very end.

 

[CTPhipps]

I know that. But like other people state their opinion over and over and over again (just look at the 800 pages of the Triss thread...) I do so as well. Based on the reactions of CDPR in this very thread that also seems to work...

Yes, we should probably avoid that here on both sides.

Jacques was a lunatic. And it's not the definite future he took you to, it was just his imagination of a possible future.

Jacques is never treated as speaking anything but the absolute 100% truth and the future you're visiting the absolute 100% future. He's not insane in any way shape or form, just doing something monstrous because he feels he needs to. With all the ludicrous defense of Emhyr wanting to have sex with his daughter for the greater good, it's funny since Jacques is the only one who actually IS selflessly trying to protect the world through extreme measures.

It's a fact that NOBODY in TW2 or TW3 at least talks about the White Frost being a direct theat to the earth or to themselves. Nobody is concerned about that in a way that would require direct action. Everyone acts like the White Frost is just a far away threat if at all. Actually nobody even talks about it in TW3. It's not important in TW3 until the very end.

They mention it a number of times throughout the game, including at the campfire meeting after Vesemir's death. But yes, I think they could elaborate a bit on Ciri's suicidal feelings but I thought that it was handled well in the game and in an understated manner.

"That Ciri has lost her will to live and Geralt needs to give her that back."

But you do raise some interesting points:

1. The White Frost plotline is underdeveloped: If nothing else, this should be something which Avallach and Geralt talk about. Knowing that a gigantic snowmonster Cthulhu is coming to kill everyone should be something which is established beforehand.

2. Ciri's Choices need to be better explained: Take Ciri Drinking or Have Her Do a Snowball fight should be explained better, I think.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Jacques is never treated as speaking anything but the absolute 100% truth and the future you're visiting the absolute 100% future. He's not insane in any way shape or form, just doing something monstrous because he feels he needs to. With all the ludicrous defense of Emhyr wanting to have sex with his daughter for the greater good, it's funny since Jacques is the only one who actually IS selflessly trying to protect the world through extreme measures.

Actually, nobody tells us whether Jacques tells the truth or whether he is right or not. That's just your interpretation. From what we know from the lore and the books it's never sure what might happen in the future. That's one of THE CORE motives of the books, the conflict between "destiny" and "free will". Jacques believes in destiny and that's why he is so convinced that the world goes down in White Frost soon. You don't have to share that believing. Geralt usually doesn't. He's somewhere between destiny and free will.

And feeling that you have to take extreme measures to prevent something you believe in (without having solid proof for) IS the definition of being a madman. It's the definition of a fundamentalist who does everything for the things he believes in.

They mention it a number of times throughout the game, including at the campfire meeting after Vesemir's death. But yes, I think they could elaborate a bit on Ciri's suicidal feelings but I thought that it was handled well in the game and in an understated manner.

Which suicidal feelings? And again, the White Frost not mentioned as a direct thread at any given time in the game. Not even once. Nobody says "we must stop the frost ASAP or it will kill us". The game is about stopping Eredin and not about stopping the White Frost.

Again, compare that to Star Wars. That's like destroying the death star in the first movie and then ending the whole concept of the "dark side" in basically thirty seconds after that in an unexplained scene that is basically completely out of content and out of synch with the storytelling of the rest of the movie. Of course the "dark side of the force" is the ultimate thread in Star Wars. But nobody thinks that somebody could defeat it on its most basic level. It's a concept, a constant threat to the world, much like the White Frost in TW3.

If you really want to establish the White Frost as "Arch-villain" in TW3 you have to rewrite the WHOLE game from the very beginning. Then the game has to be about defeating the white frost from the very beginning, and not about finding ciri to safe her from Eredin. You'd have to find her in order to convince her to fight against the white frost. And even then that doesn't fit at all to the events in TW2 in whicht the White Frost is not even mentioned once and has no significance or influence on storytelling at all. All the good stories in Witcher are about stuff personal to Geralt, about relationships and feelings, and not about some weird abstract entities. The stories in Witcher are based on characters, not on philosophical principles and abstract entities like e.g. in Moorcock's world (Elric of Melnibone and others). That's why the White Frost is both bad from a narrative point of view in general and from a storytelling design approach...


But anyway, I've written pretty much everything about that in my own thread. No need to repeat it here again.

 

[CTPhipps]

1. The White Frost is, essentially, The Red Death from "Masque of the Red Death" in that it is a looming specter of doom which reminds the readers that the end of everything is coming and there's nothing which can be done about it. Which kind of is played with because Ciri's bloodline can potentially evacuate everyone from it. I think that its defeat is an excellent way for CDPR to make their final break from the books and be able to start building their own mythology which is derived from it but something they can do their own thing with.

I don't actually approve of retconning the White Frost into Ice CthulhuTM. But, given they DID do that, and my love for Ciri's character, they should do it RIGHT rather than retcon it away.

2. As for the Suicidal Feelings, that is pretty much the basis of the Bad End, isn't it? That Ciri is unable to continue living with her spectacularly crappy life and people dying for (Skjall, the village in Velen, Vesemir, and so on) so she just defeats the White Frost and dies. This is what results in Geralt's suicide. I think that choice, which is that encouraging Ciri to LIVE and be her own woman is a well-handled and surprisingly nuanced thing in the game. It's not JUST about stabbing things.

3. As for Jacques, he can physically visit the future in order to look at the utterly destroyed ruins. He's a Lord of Time and Space even if Ciri is his superior. You can't get much more proof than actually viewing it with your own two eyes.

I'm just sayin.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

1. The White Frost is, essentially, The Red Death from "Masque of the Red Death" in that it is a looming specter of doom which reminds the readers that the end of everything is coming and there's nothing which can be done about it. Which kind of is played with because Ciri's bloodline can potentially evacuate everyone from it. I think that its defeat is an excellent way for CDPR to make their final break from the books and be able to start building their own mythology which is derived from it but something they can do their own thing with.

Yeah, breaking the lore seems like a perfect way to build your own mythology.

How about just creating your fucking own IP instead of destroying the work of others?

I say it again (and I will continue to do so): if you want to work on an existing franchise and benefit from it's already fleshed out world and characters and its already apparent fanbase you have at least to respect the lore and the basic concepts of the franchise. If you're not willing to do that you should just stay away from the whole thing and do something else. And that's really not debatable.

You said it yourself, the White Frost was never to be defeated. Ciri's purpose was to give birth to a descendant who would enable people to flee from the White Frost that would come no matter what. That's the core "abstract" and philosophical motive of the whole franchise (or better: the pentalogie). No wonder Sapkowski kind of hates the games. I would do so as well if somebody else just perverted my work in such a way...

I don't actually approve of retconning the White Frost into Ice CthulhuTM. But, given they DID do that, and my love for Ciri's character, they should do it RIGHT rather than retcon it away.

I thought it was you requesting reasonable suggestions here. Basically changing the whole game to give the whole game another basic motive doesn't sound reasonable to me at all. Removing a deus ex machina moment at the end of the game that is pretty much unconnected to the rest of the game, the predecessor and the books seems a lot more reasonable to me. And that has nothing to do with Ciri's character. Whether she fights the white frost or not doesn't change a thing in respect to her character.

2. As for the Suicidal Feelings, that is pretty much the basis of the Bad End, isn't it? That Ciri is unable to continue living with her spectacularly crappy life and people dying for (Skjall, the village in Velen, Vesemir, and so on) so she just defeats the White Frost and dies. This is what results in Geralt's suicide. I think that choice, which is that encouraging Ciri to LIVE and be her own woman is a well-handled and surprisingly nuanced thing in the game. It's not JUST about stabbing things.

No, quite the opposite is true. It's one of the most stupid things in the game. It's unbelievable, underdeveloped, badly written and completely out of character. And no, it's not a choice at all, especially not for Geralt. I thought I made that point pretty clear.

3. As for Jacques, he can physically visit the future in order to look at the utterly destroyed ruins. He's a Lord of Time and Space even if Ciri is his superior. You can't get much more proof than actually viewing it with your own two eyes.

We don't know exactly how these "time jumps" work. We don't know if Jacques really was in the future and whether if that future was unchangable. You know, that's the basic problem with time jumps. It's the question whether the future is a firm thing based on destiny or whether you can change the future with everything you do. It's a incredibly complex (theoretical) topic. The future Jacque saw could be ONE possible future that might happen if people act in one certain way. But if just one person acts "against destiny" this future isn't valid anymore. That's the basic concept of multiverse as well where the reality expands in uncountable possible futures at any given time. So there is no way to state that wha Jacques presented us in TW1 was "the" future. That's just your (and his) interpratation. We don't even know whether he know exactly himself what he saw and whether he interpreted it in the right way. How did he know that it wasn't just a different universe that looked exactly like the one Geralt lives in, except that the White Frost came much earlier? We don't know. Everything could happen if you can travel through time and space and different universes.

I think CDPR did concentrate on "earthly" things in TW2 on purpose and they did well so because the more you get into these multiverse things the bigger the inconsistencies and logical fallacies usually get. Sapkowski mainly avoided that by just letting his story end soon enough by the way...

 

[CTPhipps]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject,

I think Ciri needs a shining epic moment in the SunTM at the end of the game which I think SHOULD have been her killing Eredin so I can't really argue with you about this too much. I don't LIKE Ice Cthulhu. I think Ice Cthulhu is rather silly and I'm not even sure how Ciri is supposed to have defeated Ice Cthulhu since she doesn't have any magical powers, unlike Jacques Aldersberg other than teleporting. I came up with the idea she teleported it into the Sun something but that's kind of silly and overpowered for a low-fantasy setting like the Witcher.

Indeed, I've always felt that the White Frost is something which was a MISUNDERSTANDING of Emhyr and others, which is part of the fun. Emhyr and Vilgefortz don't understanding the Elven ProphecyTM so they are operating on faulty information to do something insane. The fact the White Frost won't come for centuries is part of the idiocy of the pair and shows how futile and stupid the entire main plot of the villains was.

So I'm not REALLY the guy who wants to make the epic stand for the White Frost at the end of the game. I didn't much care for the White Frost to be the epic motivation of the Witcher 1's villain and it was ignored in AOK. We've already got the Nilfgaard Invasion and Wild Hunt competing for attention so the idea of a third factor involved is something which is kind of bugging me. However, the game does establish the White Frost is what's motivating the Wild Hunt to come after Ciri in what I assume is something meant to give them some ambiguity. "Nazi elves want to invade our world and kill our stuff" is kind of hard to make sympathetic.

So I was trying to roll with the punches.

What I do think is, either way, that Ciri needed something at the end to show how much she's learned and to fit with the "growing up" theme that Ciri does not need Geralt to protect her anymore. That is something the entire game is building up from the moment she slays a werewolf by herself to the moment she finally decides to join the Epic Battle Against The Wild HuntTM herself.

To face down her fears. Geralt steals that moment from her on Bald Mountain.

So if they remove the Wild Hunt, what DOES Ciri do to show she's the AwesomeTM?

Avallach is a possibility but I'm not sure how that jells with his other actions.

 

[CostinRaz]

The main reason I'd argue in favor of removing the whole aspect of Ciri defeating the White Frost there and then is that it's beyond moronic for her to do so right after we defeat Eredin.

 

[CTPhipps]

The main reason I'd argue in favor of removing the whole aspect of Ciri defeating the White Frost there and then is that it's beyond moronic for her to do so right after we defeat Eredin.

The ending should have been Ciri kills Eredin and then laughs at him as he dies.

But I roll with the punchs.

Ciri saving the world and the Multiverse is something I'm begrudgingly okay with.

If only because it gives Ciri a moment to shine after Geralt keeps stealing her thunder.

 

[fishful]

The ending could have been Ciri is now able to train her skills in relative safety and begins honing them so she can one day stop the White Frost and pay off her debt to Avallac'h (make the White Frost a threat only to Tir Na Lia instead of the whole galaxy space time). Then she goes off exploring the world as a witcheress until she feels she's ready.
Or in the Empress ending she dedicates herself to this world, leaves Tir Na Lia to it's fate while slowly shaping the kingdoms, now all part of the empire, into a better place.

 

[Zbotz]

Somehow whenever I think about "What happened inside the White Frost?" I can't help but picture Ciri having a conversation with Ghostchild.

Imo just leave the entire thing alone and let's never talk about it again >_>