Triss Merigold (all spoilers)

[Scholdarr.452]

But TW2 also had this problem with ignoring your decisions from TW1

That's not even nearly on the same level. In TW2 Shani was just completely ignored without giving reason and CONTEXT to that. So basically only one route you could go in TW1 became the basis for TW2. If you want with Shani in TW1 there was no explanation at all why you suddenly ended up with Triss and what happened to Shani.

In TW3 however there is perfect context and reasoning for why you split up with Triss no matter what you did in TW2. The story provides the reasons for that decision (although it's indeed highly debatable if the explanation is sufficient, especially for those without extensive knowledge about the books and all previous games).

But the basic setting (with Triss and Geralt split up) works and respects every choice you made in TW2. It's consistent and logical and backed up by the respective plot.

 

[wright1978]

Well that's your opinion, just like I have mine, let's not get into that though, that's not important.

Looking at it logistically, from a design perspective it's pretty safe to say the option was put there to have the effect that it did. The question is just why they decided to backtrack and remove it. Plus, if you're removing it why not remove the dialogue option alltogether, no point in having it there now.

But I don't agree with you. It was put in to trick people into trying to get Triss to stay and fail IMO. It was bugged so it let people sleep with her. This wasn't their intent so they fixed it. They want people to see the consequences of their choices not have a cheap bugged experience without the required consequence.

 

[Zyvik]

That's not even nearly on the same level. In TW2 Shani was just completely ignored without giving reason and CONTEXT to that. So basically only one route you could go in TW1 became the basis for TW2. If you want with Shani in TW1 there was no explanation at all why you suddenly ended up with Triss and what happened to Shani.

In TW3 however there is perfect context and reasoning for why you split up with Triss no matter what you did in TW2. The story provides the reasons for that decision (although it's indeed highly debatable if the explanation is sufficient, especially for those without extensive knowledge about the books and all previous games).

But the basic setting (with Triss and Geralt split up) works and respects every choice you made in TW2. It's consistent and logical and backed up by the respective plot.

You don't even need to romance Shani to break up with Triss in TW1.You can just tell her that you're not interested in her.But Geralt wakes up in the bed next to her in TW2 regardless of your decisions.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

You are perfectly correct. It's no puzzle at all. Especially when you play a game where decision making is a "thing" and it actually counts toward something which leads to a different path. On more than one occasion you get to hear about what happened for choosing that path and see the results of choosing it. Choosing Triss in the previous games have the least significance in all of them (Again and I point out) If you tried to romance her, you'll understand exactly what I mean. It doesn't make sense to a lot of Yen supporters either. If those plot hole and inconsistencies were preset as strongly as they are in Yennefer's romance. I'm sure you'll agree that you would've hated the game.

Yennefer's romance is not being presented correctly either and forgive me for saying this. They expected the people who didn't read the books and the people who only played the first two games and built that emotional attachment with Triss to go with Yennefer with the way she's presented? Why?

As I said. If you think about it. If you put yourself in the position where those plot holes do exist in Yennefer's romance and Triss was pretty much the only valid choice of romance in-game. She's showing everywhere, she's dominating the "stage" you wouldn't have felt any less than we do. Which is disappointment and dissatisfaction.

I want to differentiate two things here first because I get the feeling that my posts are "overinterpreted" beyond the points I've actually made...

On the one hand, I'm perfectly ok with how the game starts. It makes sense and it doesn't ignore your decisions in TW2. It's just that the plot of TW3 naturally leads you to split up with her, at least temporarilly.

On the other hand, I'm not ok with how their romance plays out if Geralt decides that going with Triss was the right choice in the first place. I do think that the relationship between Geralt and Triss is underdeveloped in TW3 from even a few different perspectives.

So imo CDPR doesn't need to change the beginning of the game at all. What they have to concentrate on is

1) giving enough context to why Geralt and Triss split up
2) making their romance a meaningful continuation of the romance they had in TW2 - once it continues in Novigrad

That was basically the whole point why I'm so diappointed that there is no conflict between Triss and Yen. This conflict should central to the whole Triss issue in TW3, especially after what happened in TW2. That the romance with her feels so bland is the result of CDPR ignoring this conflict and all the respective logical consequences.

 

[saladin1701]

That's not even nearly on the same level. In TW2 Shani was just completely ignored without giving reason and CONTEXT to that. So basically only one route you could go in TW1 became the basis for TW2. If you want with Shani in TW1 there was no explanation at all why you suddenly ended up with Triss and what happened to Shani.

In TW3 however there is perfect context and reasoning for why you split up with Triss no matter what you did in TW2. The story provides the reasons for that decision (although it's indeed highly debatable if the explanation is sufficient, especially for those without extensive knowledge about the books and all previous games).

But the basic setting (with Triss and Geralt split up) works and respects every choice you made in TW2. It's consistent and logical and backed up by the respective plot.

No there isn't. The consequences of my choosing to stay in a romance with someone when I have the opportunity to break up with them is I stay in a romance. The consequences of my choosing to search for someone in the company of the person I'm romantically involved with is that I search for someone in the company of the person I'm romantically involved with . TW3 ignores this completely. I am neither in a relationship with the person I chose to be in a relationship with nor am I searching for someone in the company I chose to search for them in. That in itself isn't the issue, the issue is that it's not explained. There is no reason given as to why this is. It establishes a set of circumstances that occurred between the two games without explanation as to what those circumstances are.

The curx of our complaint is not that we're not in a relationship with Triss, it's not that we're in Vesemir's company, it's that the circumstances as to why this has occured is never explained. If done so in a way that makes sense and doesn't belittle the choices you've made before then the players would accept that but it doesn't. That was the mistake.

 

[Archtects]

You don't even need to romance Shani to break up with Triss in TW1.You can just tell her that you're not interested in her.But Geralt wakes up in the bed next to her in TW2 regardless of your decisions.

didnt even think about that just kinda accepted it doesnt make a great deal of sence! but i guess theres a gap, you do save foltest, and triss is the advisor, so i guess it just ends up happening lol P:. hay geralt has needs guys

 

[wichat]

When I found the dryed Rose, which in TW2 was already drying, I¡ve interpreted that the only way to persuade Triss to stay (ir come back) is saying clearly that I love her. A litltle "let's try again baby" doesn't work for a mature relation. Triss is more intelligent than that.

The game is plenty of little hints and clues, (if you have the luck of have been a reado of the books, better!)

 

[Scholdarr.452]

That in itself isn't the issue, the issue is that it's not explained. There is no reason given as to why this is. It establishes a set of circumstances that occurred between the two games without explanation as to what those circumstances are.

Maybe you want to re-read my posts again because I already repeatedly stated that this split up between Geralt and Triss at the beginning of TW3 needs proper explanation and context imo. So we basically agree on that issue.

 

[Zyvik]

didnt even think about that just kinda accepted it doesnt make a great deal of sence! but i guess theres a gap, you do save foltest, and triss is the advisor, so i guess it just ends up happening lol P:. hay geralt has needs guys

It would've been fine if Geralt was just banging Triss.But no...they're in a relationship.

 

[Pryce68]

Well, I do agree that more context would have been nice, about Geralt splitting up with Triss, explaing the reasons in a more extensive way. For me they split up because Geralt wanted to "clear his head" and think about what he really wants and whom he really wants after he finally realized that he was in a relationship with Yennefer before the amnesia and that Triss didn't tell him anything about that. So he has a huge internal conflict what he should do which imo pretty much naturally leads to conflict with Triss and at least a temporary parting - until Geralt sorted everything out for himself and until he made up his mind. That he went after searching Yen is only natural and logical as well, given their long relationship before Triss. All of that makes perfect sense in the plot and nothing you do in Witcher 2 changes that. The conflict that naturally arises from Geralt regaining his full memory will happen anyway and it obviously leaves to the same outcome. At least CDPr decided so and it is consistent with the plot of the games from TW2 to TW3.

To explain that background and reasoning properly, especially for people who don't know the books, that's the task of CDPR and I fully agree with every statement that says that the game falls a bit short here.

Thank you for agreeing to that and reaching the same conclusion we did. The romance in-game needs a different approach in-general. When it comes to both characters. Honestly, both of us Triss and Yen supporters should be making sure that this happens in the expansions. By adding more lore to Yennefer's background in-game. Tell people who she's a valid choice as much as Triss. Fixing the plot holes and inconsistencies in Triss's romance. Making equality between both romance options. If there was a ever war between Triss and Yen fans. It wasn't started by us. Everyone wanted something different and not all of us are getting exactly what they "want".

We can make sure that both problems gets fixed by pointing that out and making sure that in the expansions. We get more lore-related discussions with Yen. By also pressing for a fix for the currently existing inconsistencies with Triss (Because I'm really not lying to you, Triss isn't actually "there") and making sure that both of them will be included in the expansions with more romance, discussions and above all explanations to why this, that and other happened that way.

 

[Liquorice]

But I don't agree with you. It was put in to trick people into trying to get Triss to stay and fail IMO. It was bugged so it let people sleep with her. This wasn't their intent so they fixed it. They want people to see the consequences of their choices not have a cheap bugged experience without the required consequence.

What you're saying makes no sense though, could you mention any other quest where they are similarily trying to trick you with dialogue options that do the exact same thing?

You also mention a "cheap experience" like you're taking some weird moral highground towards casual sex. As if that is something alien to this series and game.

 

[wright1978]

D

What you're saying makes no sense though, could you mention any other quest where they are similarily trying to trick you with dialogue options that do the exact same thing?

You also mention a "cheap experience" like you're taking some weird moral highground towards casual sex. As id that is something alien to this series and game.

Why don't you have to list another example of Geralt getting into a serious committed relationship with a woman and yet not even having it referenced again.
Plus the game guide States try again should lead to her leaving, which should be pretty definitive that cheap getting into a relationship with Triss consequence free was a mistake.

 

[Pryce68]

That was basically the whole point why I'm so diappointed that there is no conflict between Triss and Yen. This conflict should central to the whole Triss issue in TW3, especially after what happened in TW2. That the romance with her feels so bland is the result of CDPR ignoring this conflict and all the respective logical consequences.

There is no conflict. Not one that we started ourselves, I assure you. I enjoy these discussions with you guys. Those of you who are reasonable. lore-aware and who tried not to use that lore to express their hatred in a non-productive way that was meant to insult the character are my favorites. I've reported as much of Triss fans as I did Yen's for making comments about somethings that they shouldn't have had. That's not the way adults and grown ups should have discussions, especially those who are old enough to purchase and play this game.

You will obviously see some Triss fans saying inappropriate stuff and some Yennefer fans doing the same exact thing. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and all of us share different point of views. As long as their views are being expressed in a healthy and a productive manner. No one will mind. When it happens in a different way less productive and unhealthy way and it includes insults. That's what I don't understand.

We're on the same team. Improvement of the game, this is the last game we're having in TW-World for a while and all us have to make damn sure that it will be satisfactory for everyone by the time it reaches its end.

EDIT reason: Typos.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

There is no conflict. Not one that we started ourselves, I assure you. I enjoy these discussions with you guys. Those of you who are reasonable. lore-aware and who tried not to use that lore to express their hatred in a non-productive way that was meant to insult the character are my favorites. I've reported as much of Triss fans as I did Yen's for making comments about somethings that they shouldn't have had. That's not the way adults and grown ups should have discussions, especially those who are considered as adults and were old enough to purchase and play this game.

You will obviously see some Triss fans saying inappropriate stuff and some Yennefer fans doing the same exact thing. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and all of us share different point of views. As long as their views are being expressed in a healthy and a productive manner. No one will mind. When it happens in a different way less productive and unhealthy way and it includes insults. That's what I don't understand.

We're on the same team. Improvement of the game, this is the last game we're having in TW-World for a while and all us have to make damn sure that it will be satisfactory for everyone by the time it reaches its end.

Ahem, I actually meant the (non-exisiting) INGAME conflict between Triss and Yennefer (and Geralt), not conflict between supporters or anything.

This conflict led to Geralt leaving Triss at the beginning of TW3 by turning into his own, internal conflict between the two women. After that this conflict is just ignored for the rest of the game, making THE central consequence of TW2 ("Triss guilt and remorse") pretty much irrelevant. Without this conflict and its consequences a romance with Triss can't be meaningful - and it shows in TW3 - and a romance with Yennefer is lacking either. And the missing resolution of this conflict also leads to a missing explanation of Geralt splitting up with Triss in the first place, in retrospective.

I'd say at least 80% of the shortcomings in terms of both (!) romances (with bigger consequences for Triss though) are connected with this missng conflict. It's one of the central shortcoming of the narrative in TW3.

 

[Liquorice]

D


Why don't you have to list another example of Geralt getting into a serious committed relationship with a woman and yet not even having it referenced again.
Plus the game guide States try again should lead to her leaving, which should be pretty definitive that cheap getting into a relationship with Triss consequence free was a mistake.

Nice way of dodging the question. You are completely ignoring the game design questions and keep discussing how you "feel" the game should play out. No point in continuing with you.

 

[DiogoGuimPT]

Because Geralt recover his memory, realize how Triss use him (fact she admits) and because from TW1 Geralt is looking for his own past whish is basicly Ciri and Yen. As Sheala says in TW2 the Rose of rememberance was drying (the legend says that this only happens when there's no true love). So, just for this. The rest it's your choice.

BTW, talking about choices... why player is forced to lay with Triss in the bening of TW2, why every player musf be agree with it and don't have the chance to change it is thie TW3?

We are here discuting among us for some little inconsistencies in a game which are not our fault?

i know its because Geralt got his memory back but still they dont say that in-game... i played TW3 before TW2 then i was wondering why they broke up... I decided to play TW2 to find out and i got nothing ofc...

if you want to talk about choices: why the player is forced to dream about Yen in the begining of the game and why the player has to kiss Yen when Geralt arrives at kaer morhen with Ciri? thats not the point, the point is: little details ARE important.

 

[Zyvik]

i know its because Geralt got his memory back but still they dont say that in-game... i played TW3 before TW2 then i was wondering why they broke up... I decided to play TW2 to find out and i got nothing ofc...

if you want to talk about choices: why the player is forced to dream about Yen in the begining of the game and why the player have to kiss Yen when Geralt arrives at kaer morhen with Ciri? thats not the point, the point is: little details ARE important.

And why the player was forced to sleep with Triss in TW1 and TW2?

 

[wright1978]

Nice way of dodging the question. You are completely ignoring the game design questions and keep discussing how you "feel" the game should play out. No point in continuing with you.

See you dodged my game design question. No point continuing to discuss with you.

 

[DiogoGuimPT]

And why the player was forced to sleep with Triss in TW1 and TW2?

like i said this is not about game choices its about little details... i dont mind dreaming about Yen or kissing her...

 

[Scholdarr.452]

i know its because Geralt got his memory back but still they dont say that in-game... i played TW3 before TW2 then i was wondering why they broke up... I decided to play TW2 to find out and i got nothing ofc...

if you want to talk about choices: why the player is forced to dream about Yen in the begining of the game and why the player has to kiss Yen when Geralt arrives at kaer morhen with Ciri? thats not the point, the point is: little details ARE important.

Agreed. The intro gives no valuable information about that at all. It's really confusing for absolute newcomers and still confusing for people who don't know the books. Maybe CDPR should make a "second" intro that explains in short what happened in TW1 and TW2...

Edit: On second thought I think this is absolutely necessary and should be a no1 priority. It would give proper context to the whole basis of the plot in TW3.

Edit 2: The so called "story recap trailer" which is the same thing as the game intro is a complete joke. It makes the same failure as the epilogues, it concentrates much more on politics than about Geralt's personal affairs and his loved ones. Although TW3 was announced as Geralt's personal story....

---------- Updated at 11:25 PM ----------

And why the player was forced to sleep with Triss in TW1 and TW2?

Complaining about TW2 now is like kicking a dead horse. Completely pointless...