I would like "Realistic damage", but I mentioned this before, this is sci fi. "Realistic" damage is subjective, it varies. Someone might have some sort of personal shield, someone might have reinforced skeleton, someone might have their brain located in their chest cavity rather than head, someone might not use a brain at all. There can be a lot of variety in enemy types and what constitutes "Realistic" damage for that enemy, and by that there are lots of ways the player character themselves could upgrade their own body to follow suit.
I would like "Realistic damage", but I mentioned this before, this is sci fi. "Realistic" damage is subjective, it varies. Someone might have some sort of personal shield, someone might have reinforced skeleton, someone might have their brain located in their chest cavity rather than head, someone might not use a brain at all. There can be a lot of variety in enemy types and what constitutes "Realistic" damage for that enemy, and by that there are lots of ways the player character themselves could upgrade their own body to follow suit.
Thiiiis is "gritty" sci fi, based very much on a Pen and Paper RPG which used real-world stats to run its firearms combat and damage.
Sooo....there are no personal (energy) shields. There -are- reinforced skeletons and built-in armour - armour rules apply there, before damage. I can't think of anyone with a brain in their chest cavity, outside the FCB who use the brain-jars, and, again, the tissue damage rules apply.
One of the best things about Cyberpunk 2020 is that a)your "hitpoints" don't change as you level, ( no levels!) and b) the system can model, pretty well, a nasty, gritty combat whether it's ten guys in Powered Armour, 3 Yakuza Tech-Ninja with massive cybernetic augmentation, or two guys rolling around on the Street.
It falls down in a couple areas - Martial Arts are crazy lethal and you have to know and apply nearly all the Rules for the system to render the different levels of combat well, (armour ablation and stuns being oft-forgotten) - but in general, combat is fast, dangerous and bloody. If you're hit, you're either hurt, bleeding or dying, or so well armoured your opponent is now loading AP rounds to fix that problem.
Sounds exactly as I would have hoped it'd be. If that were translated into the game, it could be amazing. A definite reason to put on your hard hat when expecting trouble.
In Bethesda games (TES/Fallout) I often just dress up and don't bother with armor, it's usually not needed. Sure you get hurt more, but a bullet to the face is the asme as a bullet to the foot, and neither matters much.
While I want to dress up in Cyberpunk 2077 as well, I still want it to be a bad idea to wear date night attire to a firefight. (I'd still try to invest in covert defenses though, like what the lady in the teaser-trailer has where her skin was taking bullets).
Yeah I totally agree with this.
In FO4 usually when you lvl up your health increases and probably by about lvl 40-50 you can take on some serious damage (even headshots) without dying.
I'm hoping in CP2077 if you want to increase your health you gotta get/wear armor, augment your skin and or skeleton, or hell get augmentations that'll heal you faster (NANOMACHINES SON!)
We're hoping, anyway. The PnP certainly models this, to hit location, wounding, maiming, blood loss, death, death states, etc.
Fallout 4, not so much, although head shots will still kill, at least on Survival.
Some of the issue is with difficulty and number of combats. In CP2020, you mostly avoided combat, since you could die fast. Even if you were good at it and geared for the fight, you tried to maximise your advantages.
Thus, only a few, if any, fights per play session.
In a CRPG, especially given the demand to cater to all styles, there are a LOT of fights - and without some kind of Dark Souls excuse for death, it gets frustrating and looks silly if you have to reload every time you screw up badly.
In 200 fights and 1400 people killed, or whatever I have in FO4, that would be a -lot- of reloading using CP2020 ruleset.
Well, first, I hope it didn't hurt too much :facepalm2:
In rapid fire mode:
There are no "lessons to be learned" from any other game, especially FO4. Normally you don't learn from something inferior to what you know... well, maybe not to do what they did to stoop to that level.
Thesettlement building thing in FO4 is "cute", and probably mind-blowing for console players, but for PC players who have access to the construction kit, it is extremely limited/limiting and clunky. I am sure once the FO4 kit is out, most PC players will forego creating settlements in game for creating their settlements/bunkers/catacombs wherever and however they want, with the entire stock of assets at their disposal. CP2077-RedKit should not be any different.
Nostalgia is the mother of all evil. Just because A is based on B, it doesn't mean A has to be exactly like B, especially when going from one medium to another; a parallel can be drawn with books that are made into movies. Most who read the book then watch the movie normally have some complaint about the movie "because in the book...". It's a different medium, presented from a perspective (director's) that is different from the original (writer's).
As well, not because you loved X in this game it makes sense to include it in Y game.
I wouldn't worry too much about the shooter part. If anyone has issues wit it, easily solvable with editing a couple files, just like in W2-W3, either giving yourself a weapon that insta-kills or a piece of armor that makes you virtually immortal. Then enjoy the story as you intended to do.
Irrelevant: nothing kills anything faster than a head shot, if it actually hits its "kill zone", that is, perforates the brain. Hunters don't go for necks because it kills faster. Preserving the integrity of the head for mounting, neck being a bigger target, neck not moving like the head, yes... and you wouldn't hit the neck if you want to hit the femoral artery, you'd hit a leg... although perforating the femoral artery (or the carotid in the neck for that matter) from 50 yards out.. maybe if you are Carlos Hathcock.
... guess that's all I got.
In rapid fire mode:
There are no "lessons to be learned" from any other game, especially FO4. Normally you don't learn from something inferior to what you know... well, maybe not to do what they did to stoop to that level.
Thesettlement building thing in FO4 is "cute", and probably mind-blowing for console players, but for PC players who have access to the construction kit, it is extremely limited/limiting and clunky. I am sure once the FO4 kit is out, most PC players will forego creating settlements in game for creating their settlements/bunkers/catacombs wherever and however they want, with the entire stock of assets at their disposal. CP2077-RedKit should not be any different.
Nostalgia is the mother of all evil. Just because A is based on B, it doesn't mean A has to be exactly like B, especially when going from one medium to another; a parallel can be drawn with books that are made into movies. Most who read the book then watch the movie normally have some complaint about the movie "because in the book...". It's a different medium, presented from a perspective (director's) that is different from the original (writer's).
As well, not because you loved X in this game it makes sense to include it in Y game.
I wouldn't worry too much about the shooter part. If anyone has issues wit it, easily solvable with editing a couple files, just like in W2-W3, either giving yourself a weapon that insta-kills or a piece of armor that makes you virtually immortal. Then enjoy the story as you intended to do.
Irrelevant: nothing kills anything faster than a head shot, if it actually hits its "kill zone", that is, perforates the brain. Hunters don't go for necks because it kills faster. Preserving the integrity of the head for mounting, neck being a bigger target, neck not moving like the head, yes... and you wouldn't hit the neck if you want to hit the femoral artery, you'd hit a leg... although perforating the femoral artery (or the carotid in the neck for that matter) from 50 yards out.. maybe if you are Carlos Hathcock.
... guess that's all I got.
That is exactly what I would love to see. Too many fights really take the intensity and meaning out of them. And worst of all they're really detrimental to the immersion of the world. Besides it just never fits the characters I like to roleplay.
Fights should be as far as possible avoidable. And that's actually something I love about Bethesda's games where you get lot's of possibilities with illusion spells, stealth, ... It's just too bad that Fallout 4 resorted to CoD quest design
That is exactly what I would love to see. Too many fights really take the intensity and meaning out of them. And worst of all they're really detrimental to the immersion of the world. Besides it just never fits the characters I like to roleplay.
Fights should be as far as possible avoidable. And that's actually something I love about Bethesda's games where you get lot's of possibilities with illusion spells, stealth, ... It's just too bad that Fallout 4 resorted to CoD quest design
A low ammout of fighting would be good. I mean it's hard to imagine how they could pull that off. Most big open world games lean heavy on combat because it's very easy to copy paste it over and over to get content.
If anyone is still talking about it, I don't think building would fit the theme of the game well. Same with crafting. I just don't see many cyberpunk characters with a hammer and nail.
Aaaaactually...the Tech is that class.
But no, they don't usually build "buildings".
IN fact, in the genre and CP2020 in particular, the nomadic, few-things-are-permanent lifestyle is more typical, at least for the early part of your career. Your "kit" fits inside a dufflebag - less of you to track after a job. Also, you spend your money on Looking Cool and Being Deadly/Smart/Persuasive/Whatever, so who has money for a house?
As for the copy/paste of combat - yeah, that is the genre staple. It's easy!
1.) Unlike the majority, I really like settlement building in FO4. I've had a lot of fun with it thus far. For me it plays along with the story really well because you are literally remaking a ruined world, which plays into the main narrative as most of the factions in the main story are trying to rebuild the world in a way that matches their ideals. So I think settlement building works really well in FO4, even if it is imperfect and has definite limitations.
2.) I sincerely doubt that CP2077 will have a "building" mechanic. In the CP2077 games I played back in the day, constructing something from scratch in the way FO4 does was never really part of the process. It just doesn't fit as well within this world.
3.) I think having multiple locations available to inhabit as your personal space makes a ton of sense. I think being able to customize those spaces makes a ton of sense. I have dumped many hours into perfecting my living space in both Skyrim and FO4. I would have seen more space customization in Mass Efffect, DA:I, and even TW3.
When I roll play a game I love having a place to go back to and really feel like your "living" in the world. I'm sure that's not everyone's cup of tea, but I would like that very much.
4.) Something I would very much like CDPR to take a look at from FO4 is the crafting systems. I really like the weapons, armor, clothing, hairstyle and etc systems in FO4.
2.) I sincerely doubt that CP2077 will have a "building" mechanic. In the CP2077 games I played back in the day, constructing something from scratch in the way FO4 does was never really part of the process. It just doesn't fit as well within this world.
3.) I think having multiple locations available to inhabit as your personal space makes a ton of sense. I think being able to customize those spaces makes a ton of sense. I have dumped many hours into perfecting my living space in both Skyrim and FO4. I would have seen more space customization in Mass Efffect, DA:I, and even TW3.
I would have loved it if we could have had small playable areas in Wild Hunt where you lived out a small post narrative living with (1) Yen, (2) Triss, or (3) by yourself and custimizing a space while finishing off the other contracts and quests that remained in the world was a part of the gameplay.
4.) Something I would very much like CDPR to take a look at from FO4 is the crafting systems. I really like the weapons, armor, clothing, hairstyle and etc systems in FO4.
Even the tech class feels more like the person who uses the tech rather then making it. Will the game have classes? I kind of hope not. Classes don't work as well in a single player RPG. You need a lot more choices.
Welll...CP2020 has Roles. Not quite the same, more stylistic. Which is good, since for new players, you really want to set a strong flavour to your world.
A Corporate is -not- a Solo is -not- a Rockerboy. Although they can share many of the same skills. But to be good at managing a corporate environment and interfacing with Street operators is a skill and career that doesn't leave time to also be great at being a professional musician.
@Rawls I think we're hoping for a FO4 or better gear customization option set, yeah. I am!
But you also need the opposite of what Skyrim did.
You cannot be warrior, mage and thief at the same time. That is just...well, it's stupid.
Mike has said one of the things he didn't want for Cyberpunk was for it to be made as a "shooter" (not regarding game mechanics but game type). So while I'm sure there will be more combat in CP2077 then there would be in a PnP CP2020 game I don't think (hope to hell) there won't be as much as there was even in W3.
Think of all the battles in W3 you could avoid (succubi for instance) and imagine the only mandatory battles were the "boss fights". No random battles for the sake of a fight while traveling. Sure the mainstream shooter crowd would hate it, but if CP2077 caters to them then it's no longer "Cyberpunk" as presented in the PnP game but something entirely different.
RPGs are not about kill counts, they're about interacting with people, the situation, and the environment. Combat is an option, not a requirement. Simply making combat as deadly as it is in the PnP game will go a long way toward this, the folks that want to fight everything can spam saves as needed to get their adrenaline fix, those that want to role-play can do so (of course assuming the game has a non-combat solution to 95% of situations).
Who knows, the shooter crowd might find realistic combat interesting vice the current "fight then heal kit/rest for 30 seconds then fight some more" trend.
Think of all the battles in W3 you could avoid (succubi for instance) and imagine the only mandatory battles were the "boss fights". No random battles for the sake of a fight while traveling. Sure the mainstream shooter crowd would hate it, but if CP2077 caters to them then it's no longer "Cyberpunk" as presented in the PnP game but something entirely different.
RPGs are not about kill counts, they're about interacting with people, the situation, and the environment. Combat is an option, not a requirement. Simply making combat as deadly as it is in the PnP game will go a long way toward this, the folks that want to fight everything can spam saves as needed to get their adrenaline fix, those that want to role-play can do so (of course assuming the game has a non-combat solution to 95% of situations).
Who knows, the shooter crowd might find realistic combat interesting vice the current "fight then heal kit/rest for 30 seconds then fight some more" trend.
So much this! Combine that with character generation with plenty of possibilities (and implications for role-playing), lot's of (possible) dialog and not too much drama and it would be my dream game
Does anyone remember Deus Ex 2? I know many people hated it - I did too at first - but by now it's my favorite installment in the series (though I'm not happy about the missing skills, etc...). Imho the pacing is way better than in the first and with the faction interactions it feels like you have a lot more choices.
One of my favorite moments was when the illuminati kind of betrayed you because they mistrusted you. But instead of giving you the quest "destroy the illuminati for betraying you" you could instead later meet up with them again and even rejoin them. That is imho a perfect example for player choice that I would love to see in Cyberpunk.
Also - the "secret" ending in Fallout 4 where you didn't join the civil war at all would go in that direction. It's kind of a gimmick - but it goes a long way towards not making the player feel like a puppet on a string!
Cheers, guys
Oh and by the way: Housing - yes please! Building - meh! I don't like the idea of scrapping anything you can find. I liked the Elder Scrolls approach to this - you can take everything - but it just doesn't make sense to steal any wooden plate...
One thing that I hope they implement from games like the MGS series is the possibility of subduing enemies not only with fighting moves but by approaching them silently or otherwise and pointing to their head so that they don't have an option but to surrender and not try anything funny, because their heads can't take more than one shot. I also hope that we get the oportunity to show that we surrender and that we'd rather have our enemies take us prisoner, be it sent to jail or even taken to see their boss. GTAIV had a bit of this mechanic since Niko would rise his arms when the police were trying to arrest him, but then we could try to make a run for it, instantly making them try to use lethal force against us.
I also think this would lend itself very well to different levels of roleplay and character creation, if we play a character that doesn't want to kill because he or she is "a pacifist" or just because a Cyberpunk world is a bit more like ours than for example a fantasy one... or because our character is an unlikely hero or antihero that isn't really all that good at using guns, but, hey, if we get the upper hand we can use that to our advantage.
Meh. Cops are terrible fighters. All those doughnuts get in the way.
Outside of a suppressed pistol or a knife to the right body parts, there aren't really a lot of ways to kill a human in a reliably quiet way, that I'm aware of.
Of course, it's a video game, so there's..that?
ANYWAY, what Dec is talking about in terms of "subdue" from Metal Gear Solid isn't beating them unconscious, it's forcing them to surrender witha choke or gun at their head.
It's actually pretty cool in-game, too.
I know lots of ways to kill folks quickly and quietly, and throat cutting is NOT on the list ... they gurgle loudly, it's VERY messy, and it takes around 10 seconds for the lack of blood to make them pass out. It's far FAR easier to kill people reliably then subdue them.
Assuming they don't scream in terror a gun to the head usually works wonders. And the screaming is one reason it's NOT on my list of ways to subdue people quietly.
Assuming they don't scream in terror a gun to the head usually works wonders. And the screaming is one reason it's NOT on my list of ways to subdue people quietly.
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A) surrender-subdue. Point gun, hold finger to lips is how MGS does it.
B) Rear naked choke, 3-5 seconds typically.
C) I'm a ninja, so there. Prepare to be ninjed.