Ciri's trances (Blood of Elves) (spoilers within)

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Ciri's trances (Blood of Elves) (spoilers within)

Who was Ciri contacting during her trances at Kaer Morhen?

"'You are wrong, Fourteenth One,' the metallic, inhuman voice sneered. 'You've mistaken the stars reflected on the surface of the lake at night for the heavens.'"​
The voice is described as 'inhuman', and yet uses the same phrase that Vilgefortz is so fond of using, is this a connection of some kind or a coincidence?

Who or what then is this being that Ciri is in contact with?
 
Probably wild hunt. It's not vilgefortz exclusive phrase, it apperas through whole saga and also in games.
 
Sirnaq said:
Probably wild hunt. It's not vilgefortz exclusive phrase, it apperas through whole saga and also in games.

This is my thought as well, though it's been a while since I read the book and am currently re-reading it.
 
It refers to Triss as "Fourteenth One" though, and from what I remember, the wild hunt weren't all-knowing, and I don't think they would have any reason to have learned the names on the Memorial at Sodden, So they would have to be reading her mind while she was in the trance state?
 
I believe Ciri is prophesying, speaking for an ancestor spirit we may never manage to identify.

"Elves don't discuss their faith in the presence of humans, because they think the barbarians would be unable to grasp its philosophical and mystical subtleties. Most humans, on the other hand, don't care about elven beliefs." (not sure of the source)

"You've mistaken the stars reflected on the surface of the lake at night for the heavens" appears to be a more common saying, not just a Vilgefortz-ism. I don't think it pins the source to Vilgefortz.

RL version:
 
jspstorm said:
Who was Ciri contacting during her trances at Kaer Morhen?

"'You are wrong, Fourteenth One,' the metallic, inhuman voice sneered. 'You've mistaken the stars reflected on the surface of the lake at night for the heavens.'"​
The voice is describes as 'inhuman', and yet uses the same phrase that Vilgefortz is so foud of using, is this a connection of some kind or a coincidence?

Who or what then is this being that Ciri is in contact with?

I'd say it's death itself. It's said a lot of times that death follows Ciri on her heels. I'm not sure if I am taking it too literally though. But who else would know that Triss is the fourteenth of the hill?
 
Chief said:
I'd say it's death itself. It's said a lot of times that death follows Ciri on her heels. I'm not sure if I am taking it too literally though. But who else would know that Triss is the fourteenth of the hill?
I would add my vote to this, I think Ciri is connected to many creatures and persons. I think she could be connected with Aen elle, with unicorns (but in this case maybe they are conntected more on her than the other way), with her beloved ones and she also has something to do with Death.

If you see my signature, after that quotation comes Ciri's answer: "I know."
beautiful part of story.. :)

I also don't think Aen Elles know everything (like Triss' injury) and I think we will not be able to decide who was talking to her. Of course it could be Wild hunt, but I don't think they were the only ones.
There are many strange 'things' in that world - if you read 'Sword of Destiny', you can remember that part, when Geralt visited Sodden hill..

BTW: I like this topic, this is also something, what I am interested in, but I am afaid, we will not find answer ;) ..
 
jspstorm said:
Who was Ciri contacting during her trances at Kaer Morhen?

Not me unfortunately :(

But this phrase is one of my favorite phrases from the books,
and it immediately brings the Witcher saga to my mind.

:)
 
I agree that Death seems the most likely candidate, I find it very interesting how Triss' attempt to identify/locate Death was described: her spell pierced one magical barrier, and then another, but after that there was another and another ad infinitum. So I guess Death dwells on a plane unreachably far away.

"The darkness thickened. Ciri saw yet another great door in front of her. Yennefer did not slow her stride but Ciri suddenly knew that this door would not open of its own accord. And she suddenly had an overwhelming certainty that this door must not be opened. That she must not go through it. That, behind this door, something was waiting for her . . .

She stopped short, tried to pull away, but Yennefer's hand was strong and unyielding and unrelentingly dragged her forward. And Ciri finally understood that she had been betrayed, deceived, sold out. That, ever since the first meeting, from the very beginning, from the first day, she had been no more than a marionette, a puppet on a string. She tugged harder, tore herself away from that grip. The darkness undulated like smoke and the whispering in the dark, all of a sudden, died away. The magician took a step forward, stopped, turned round and looked at her.

If you're afraid, turn back.

That door mustn't be opened. You know that.

I do.

But you're still leading me there.

If you're afraid, turn back. You still have time to turn back. It's not too late.

And you?

For me, it is."​

This is another vision I am interested in deciphering. One possibility is that maybe 'Yennefer' was actually destiny leading her towards her inevitable fate. What about the last part though?

"You still have time to turn back. It's not too late" "And You?" "For me, it is."​
My theory falls apart here, because I don't see how it can be 'too late' for destiny.

And what about the door that 'mustn't be opened'? Any ideas?
 
I actually just read that part myself, and have a ton of questions about it. Guess I'll have to turn things over in my head a bit for a while.
 
"'You are wrong, Fourteenth One,' the metallic, inhuman voice sneered. 'You've mistaken the stars reflected on the surface of the lake at night for the heavens.'"

Does anybody know what it means?? I'm so curious..
 
She was supposed to die in sodden hill. if i'm not mistaken it was said in a mocking way because she was falsely declared as the 14th mage casualty in the battle. as for who it is its possibly the actual god of death or chaos. or possibly even the force :p( im not joking its called that in some places.) anyway its kept vague by the author maybe he refers to the consciousness of the universe or some other cosmic force.
 
Context is all-important here: what has Ciri been prophesying; what has Triss demanded of the spirit who is speaking through Ciri?

I believe this is the second time Triss has heard Ciri prophesy (the witchers had heard her a number of times, but had not been able to make anything of it). This time, Ciri has recited Ithlinne's Prophecy, and Triss has challenged the spirit to reveal its identity.

Both times, the spirit has called Triss "Fourteenth One" and told her bluntly that she is meddling in matters of which she has no understanding. The first time, the spirit warned her to take Ciri back to where she belongs. This time, the plain meaning of the proverb "mistaken the stars reflected" is a warning that Triss's demand is fruitless.

Even if Triss were to know, or we were to know, who the spirit speaking through Ciri is (or was), we would deceive ourselves into thinking we could understand the matter of the prophecy by knowing no more than the speaker's name. That is the meaning of mistaking the reflection for the heavens. We think we know the prophecy when we know who has spoken it, but we really know nothing about it; we get no closer to the stars by trying to rake their reflection out of the pond.
 
I want to add one more thing, about that "Death" possibility..

First time, when Triss heard her her words, when she passed out, she talked about dead ones, which were killen in Kaer Morhen.
"They don't want to be reamrk on..." She spoke for dead people..
 
"'An ordinary barrow.' Ciri's voice was becoming more and more unnatural, metallic, cold and menacing. 'A mound of earth which will be overgrown with nettles. Death has cold blue eyes, and the height of the obelisk does not matter, nor does the writing engraved on it matter. Who can know that better than you, Triss Merigold, the Fourteenth One of the Hill?'

The enchantress froze. She saw the girl's hands clench the horse's mane.

'You died on the Hill, Triss Merigold.' The strange, evil voice spoke again. 'Why have you come here? Go back, go back at once and take this child, the Child of Elder Blood, with you. Return her to those to whom she belongs. Do this, Fourteenth One. Because if you do not you will die once more. The day will come when the Hill will claim you. The mass grave, and the obelisk on which your name is engraved, will claim you.'"​

Since the speaker mentions the height(splendor) of the monument as well as the writing, I think that rules out the obvious truth that just because a name is engraved on a stone, doesn't mean the person named is dead. I believe it is more likely that the speaker is saying that monuments have no relevance to death/the dead, they don't make death anything other than it is. This seems like the point of view that a spirit of the dead or death itself would have, and seems like further confirmation on the general consensus of this thread, perhaps.

But why did the spirit say "You died on the Hill, Triss Merigold." Is it saying she died in some way other than literal, physical death? Maybe metaphorically?

And why after that, does the speaker tell Triss to "Return [Ciri] to those to whom she belongs.", and then proceed to threaten her: "...if you do not you will die once more."
Who does this voice think Ciri belongs to?
 
That last question is our main problem :)

That thing with Triss - she was really badly hurted, so badly that they clouldn't recognize her, she was really close to Death, so if I take that easily and logicaly - Death reminds herself. She was nearly dead, maybe she could also be "there" for a moment, her name is next to others which already died. I think that is good reason for those words.

Your quotation of that part is exactly what I meant. I still think that voice has something to do with Death, who else could know, what dead one wants/needs?


PS: if you can, please, add spoiler to name of this topic, those are quite important informations from saga and here are long quotes from there ;) ..
 
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