Arena 2.0

+
Arena 2.0

Decided to start a thread suggesting improvements for Arena in TW3. Feel free to post your ideas.

-Length. For a challenge mode Arena is extremely long. Too long. I'd rather have a series of unique challenges with 4-5 waves a piece. As it is now, it takes me 10-15 waves to get to the hard stuff. It's too time consuming

-Battle grounds. The square format doesn't lend itself to a tactical approach. Given the nature of combat, this means when you arrive at, say, the golem wave, you're just going to roll like hell. There are no choke points or environmental features to take advantage of. I propose utilizing areas from the game. Could be a small section of forest, Lavallette castle, the open square in the final chapter where you fight Letho, or Flotsam's streets. Give the player varied environments for each challenge. The Arena could be one of those settings, but avoid stuffing it so full of enemies Geralt has to spend half his time running and rolling.

-Keep the level up mechanic. This is what gives Arena depth and allows gamers to experiment with the skill tree. A great idea.

-Reduce the camera shake effect when fighting huge enemies, like trolls or golems. I understand why they did it, but it's way over done. If you have three trolls stomping around you can barely get your bearings with all the screen shake.

-Expand on the banter. I love chatting with the mercenaries, some of the funniest stuff in the game comes from them. It'd be cool if they divulge more about their past the longer they stay under our hire. Or maybe they could offer advice to Geralt as well as berating him. ( something they love to do, to hilarious effect)

-Bonuses. I don't like the time mechanic as a bonus element. To encourage a more thoughtful style of play, we should be given a bonus on vitality remaining after each wave. Reward bonuses for a string of combos across multiple foes, for killing two or more foes at once, or for each riposte executed. A bonus for something like an Aard stun seems arbitrary.

-Let us hire all three mercenaries through the course of one run so the player can choose allies based on wave and enemy type. When they 'die' we have to rehire them. The sorceress may be best for a forested area, where she can teleport behind cover to lob spells; the knight would be ideal in open combat. Let the mercenaries earn cash too, and allow the player to guide them in buying better gear. BTW, I feel the sorceress is far too nerfed. For the price she commands she should be more effective.

-In game leaderboards. This one's obvious.
 
Point 1: I disagree with. It should be a long endurance run where every mistake can cost you your hard earned score, it's an integral part of the challenge and if you remove it then a major part of the challenge is removed. I would say they need to find a way to fix the problem that comes if the game crashes and we lose all our score.

Point 2: It seems this is more of a complaint about rolling then of the actual level design. The last thing I'd want to deal with it is dying in a choke point because I don't have any space to maneuver against foes, but if you reduce the number of foes you reduce the challenge by quite a bloody lot. Not saying the level is awesome because it can use work but look at other games and their arenas for design ( WoW would be a prime example ) and seriously do NOT implement levels from the story in arena because story levels were designed just for that story mode.

Point 4: If I am completely honest here I don't think they implemented that on purpose rather they designed said enemies in the story to be fought one at a time and then they just plucked them and placed them in the arena 2, 3, 5 at time, that's the problem.

Point 5: And why exactly time shouldn't be a factor? You spend time complaining about rolling, but rolling too much will cost you time, time to get that bonuses. If anything it encourages a more aggressive play. Remove it and players will spend all the time in the world to get perfect scores through other means.

The rest I agree with.
 
CostinMoroianu said:
Point 1: I disagree with. It should be a long endurance run where every mistake can cost you your hard earned score, it's an integral part of the challenge and if you remove it then a major part of the challenge is removed. I would say they need to find a way to fix the problem that comes if the game crashes and we lose all our score.

Point 2: It seems this is more of a complaint about rolling then of the actual level design. The last thing I'd want to deal with it is dying in a choke point because I don't have any space to maneuver against foes, but if you reduce the number of foes you reduce the challenge by quite a bloody lot. Not saying the level is awesome because it can use work but look at other games and their arenas for design ( WoW would be a prime example ) and seriously do NOT implement levels from the story in arena because story levels were designed just for that story mode.

Point 4: If I am completely honest here I don't think they implemented that on purpose rather they designed said enemies in the story to be fought one at a time and then they just plucked them and placed them in the arena 2, 3, 5 at time, that's the problem.

Point 5: And why exactly time shouldn't be a factor? You spend time complaining about rolling, but rolling too much will cost you time, time to get that bonuses. If anything it encourages a more aggressive play. Remove it and players will spend all the time in the world to get perfect scores through other means.

The rest I agree with.

-Well there can be an endurance mode with all waves done consecutively. And then there can be a standard mode with each challenge featuring a set number of waves that can be completed in about 15-20 minutes. The fact is I can do the first 1/3 of Arena in my sleep by now. So to you it's endurance mode, to me it's a pointless slog.

-I would argue that encounters in the game are designed more purposefully than in Arena, which really has no level design per se. So porting areas from story mode makes sense. Other games, Like Arkham City, have done this successfully. Ideally difficulty should be attained more through enemy AI and level design, not just throwing more enemies in. After a certain point in Arena, all they're doing is filling it with bad guys and your tactical options are actually limited - roll and Quen....or maybe bombs This speaks partly to combat design I know, but again, in the main game they don't make this mistake. Conflicts are more intelligently designed.

-As for the time bonus, well that goes away pretty quick anyway if you spend half your time dodging, which is the case on hard or dark. They should include a vitality bonus as well though, because to me the damage you take reflects how smart you fought.
 
The fact is I can do the first 1/3 of Arena in my sleep by now. So to you it's endurance mode, to me it's a pointless slog.

And you aren't the only one. I can also do it, but if you take away the endurance run then the fact is that it would be a LOT easier to attain a high score. Is it boring to have to replay the first 10 levels if I die later. Sure it is, but it's not like you can't die in those levels, you can and you will if you are careless.

-I would argue that encounters in the game are designed more purposefully than in Arena, which really has no level design per se. So porting areas from story mode makes sense. Other games, Like Arkham City, have done this successfully. Ideally difficulty should be attained more through enemy AI and level design, not just throwing more enemies in. After a certain point in Arena, all they're doing is filling it with bad guys and your tactical options are actually limited - roll and Quen....or maybe bombs This speaks partly to combat design I know, but again, in the main game they don't make this mistake. Conflicts are more intelligently designed.

The encounters in the main game are much more easy then the Arena and much more boring as a result. I can smash my way through the main game with zero effort on Dark Mode or Insane, I can't smash my way through Arena that easily, that is a fact and don't bring AC in this because that game's challenge levels are pathetic at least the pure combat ones.


-As for the time bonus, well that goes away pretty quick anyway if you spend half your time dodging, which is the case on hard or dark. They should include a vitality bonus as well though, because to me the damage you take reflects how smart you fought.

But if you want a high score you do need to consider the time since the score is very lower otherwise. I don't mind the vitality bonus idea. I do however very much mind the notion that removing the time bonus is a good idea. It's not.
 
In my opinion there are two difficult waves.
first is the one with two arachas, two queen endraga and . . .
second is the one with some fire elementals and gargoyles.

these two can be both exciting and ridiculous at the same time.
as Costin says: they designed said enemies in the story to be fought one at a time
and as slimgrin says : your tactical options are actually limited - roll and Quen

but look at the bright side, you need to roll around until you find an opening and then use that small window of opportunity to land your hit !
isn't that beautiful ?

although upgraded Yrdan could help you a lot in these situations but it has it's own drawbacks.

in the end, I think all arcade game playing is somehow the same. all use the conventional difficulty ideas like increasing enemy hit points, damage, number and etc.
 
Hey, great idea mate! And you made some excellent points. Valid stuff that could be improved upon. Atm, can't really think of anything that could improve the overall experience. Well maybe this:

On top of all your points, let us be able to continue if we want. It's kind of annoying, having to restart EVERYTHING when you quit the game. It'd be nice to have a little continue option. You could even make the option optional, by unlocking it or something. Some compromise would be nice. It's quite frustrating, having the best armour and weapons, and then if you have to go and eat, go to bed, whatever, you have to quit and lose all your progress prematurely.

Also, variety in Arena game modes. Not all have to be horde mode right? It would be nice to have a selection of different modes to play in. You could have a mode where you have to transport gold from one side of the map to the other. Or escorting a caravan. Or trying to kill as many units of a certain kind within a certain time limit. Or whatever. Just something else.

I love Arena in TW2, as you can see by my score, but I would like to see it improved. Also, small but very passionate wish; coop in Arena. I would love to be able to play with friends. Or maybe we can mod that in? Well anyway, awesome thread. Will be back if any more ideas pop up.
 
FoggyFishburne said:
Hey, great idea mate! And you made some excellent points. Valid stuff that could be improved upon. Atm, can't really think of anything that could improve the overall experience. Well maybe this:

On top of all your points, let us be able to continue if we want. It's kind of annoying, having to restart EVERYTHING when you quit the game. It'd be nice to have a little continue option. You could even make the option optional, by unlocking it or something. Some compromise would be nice. It's quite frustrating, having the best armour and weapons, and then if you have to go and eat, go to bed, whatever, you have to quit and lose all your progress prematurely.

Also, variety in Arena game modes. Not all have to be horde mode right? It would be nice to have a selection of different modes to play in. You could have a mode where you have to transport gold from one side of the map to the other. Or escorting a caravan. Or trying to kill as many units of a certain kind within a certain time limit. Or whatever. Just something else.

I love Arena in TW2, as you can see by my score, but I would like to see it improved. Also, small but very passionate wish; coop in Arena. I would love to be able to play with friends. Or maybe we can mod that in? Well anyway, awesome thread. Will be back if any more ideas pop up.

Co-op in Arena would be fun, I'll admit, but that starts me wondering on the amount of time and time resources the team has. I like your other ideas about different types of challenges. One I'd like to see most is defending Flotsam against a horde of Scoiatel. It would be most awesome.
 
slimgrin said:
Arena is basically horde mode. God forbid it takes place in an environment other than a football field.

Horde mode is what Mass Effect 3 and Gear of War have, Witcher 2 arena is a survival mode.
 
CostinMoroianu said:
Horde mode is what Mass Effect 3 and Gear of War have, Witcher 2 arena is a survival mode.

Survival by Quen and rolling. I'll take horde mode over that.
 
Co-op mode: Bring back the brother witchers of the wolf school Berengar, Vesemir, Eskel, Leo and Lambert or maybe even the vipers Serrit, Auckes, UTA (unknown third assassin) and LETHO, for player variety. Set it in the gauntlet and halls of Kaer Morhen?
 
slimgrin: So your entire argument is based on how much you dislike quen and rolling? Typical. Making it into a horde mode would NOT change how it works however. You would have to improve Geralt's HP so he doesn't die in 1-2 hits without quen and also make parrying effective against monsters which it really isn't.

CDPR's mentality of look we are going throw all these monsters at you that can 1-2 shot you needs to change.

Bloth: Geralt and Letho fighting side by side would be quite epic.
 
CostinMoroianu said:
slimgrin: So your entire argument is based on how much you dislike quen and rolling? Typical. Making it into a horde mode would NOT change how it works however. You would have to improve Geralt's HP so he doesn't die in 1-2 hits without quen and also make parrying effective against monsters which it really isn't.

CDPR's mentality of look we are going throw all these monsters at you that can 1-2 shot you needs to change.

I'm trying to mitigate the slow burning development of the skill tree, namely in Arena. It shouldn't take for FUCKING ever to arrive at a powerful build and up your score. At the very least, I cant see how you'd be against different level design for the mode.
 
I believe it should. It's a big part of the challenge to get there and if they remove that then the challenge is diminished.

With regards to different levels. I don't care for YOUR suggestion on what those levels should be I didn't say I was against different levels tough to be fair I don't think Arena is something they should necessarily develop.
 
slimgrin said:
In that case they should can it. We'll see what they do.

Well if I have to choose between better gameplay in the story along with better levels, balance and so on and arena with less of what I mentioned I'd always pick the former.

Not that I haven't had fun playing Arena because I've spent over 200 hours in it alone. To be fair considering that the next witcher is going to be open world they might just include it in the world.
 
CostinMoroianu said:
To be fair considering that the next witcher is going to be open world they might just include it in the world.

Is that a fact or are you just assuming? I certainly wouldn't mind an open world Witcher game.
 
Top Bottom