Immune can get out of hand but currently they aren't so bad. Artifacts are the real problem. What exactly do you mean by timer? The artifacts effect goes off when it hits zero?
Immune can get out of hand but currently they aren't so bad. Artifacts are the real problem. What exactly do you mean by timer? The artifacts effect goes off when it hits zero?
Yeah, like I said on another thread or place in this thread. Countdown timer, then expire and cannot be used anymore. Say 2-4 turns depending on the artifact.
Alright. This can not work with the current summoning circle.
This could help with the other artifacts but I can only assume that these would still be used in artifact decks because you would simply use those 2-4 turns to throw them down before the final play.
My humble proposal is to have more good but not op artifacts. Have a more in-the-game feeling about them.
Most important, remove conditions of faction specific artifact removal.
Just so silly to need an elf, soldier, damaged unit ... whatever. Artifacts are mostly combined with removal heavy deck. How should i deal with them if my contidions are removed every turn?
Inclusion - the new shit, not only socialy ;D
cheap artifacts - cheap removal - problem solved.
and don't tell me you don't have room for a 5p - 4body unit to save your day
Most important, remove conditions of faction specific artifact removal.
Just so silly to need an elf, soldier, damaged unit ... whatever. Artifacts are mostly combined with removal heavy deck. How should i deal with them if my contidions are removed every turn?
Inclusion - the new shit, not only socialy ;D
cheap artifacts - cheap removal - problem solved.
and don't tell me you don't have room for a 5p - 4body unit to save your day
Out of curiosity, why and what legitimate reasons?
In regards to your fix statement, please clarify. From where I am sitting Sihil was adjusted and stopped seeing play. Spears and Shields were adjusted to reduce their effectiveness and it ended up making them stronger. Then they were adjusted again and stopped seeing play. Now these cards just sit there in the deck builder. The art and resources placed into creating them all for what? This is not an example of quality adjustments. It's amateur hour.
It's a non-interactive, binary way to implement it. You want to boost a unit, great. Here, put this card on the board and, whenever you're ready, boost a unit. Oh, and by the way, only a single other card type can deal with it. One which weakens a deck against anything but this type of card.
The point of my earlier post was much of the viability of these special/artifact spam decks is because these non-interactive concepts enhance what they're ultimately trying to do to win a game. The more limited or non-interactive concepts you have the easier it is to build a viable non-interactive deck. Immunity, boost/damage artifacts on orders, Summoning Circle, leader abilities, etc. All of this stuff opens up more possibilities for achieving #2 and #3 in my earlier post. And all of it tends to be #1.
In regards to Scorch and all of it's derivatives.... Those cards are limited by the points on the board. They can only remove what is placed on the board. Furthermore, they don't provide positive value. You can do #2 in my earlier post extremely effectively with these cards, sure. You cannot do #3. At some point a deck spamming these cards will run out of them and be forced to play positive value. That point is the more important aspect of these type of decks. It's what ultimately allows them to take rounds. If you wish to block this style of play it stands to reason weakening the win cons, or the ways a player can achieve or amplify them, would be more effective.
With that said, yes, they have probably gone overboard with these Scorch concepts. Once upon a time Scorch was a relatively unique card. It's an example of a concept where there should be somewhat strict limits on the availability of the concept. Otherwise it can get out of hand. Unfortunately, this doesn't fit with, "Add a lot of new cards, any cards, we have a deadline to meet you filthy plebs.".
The issue with Immune is the same issue with Promote. In case you're unaware, a loooong time ago gold cards were effectively "immune". There was a mechanic called Promote. Promote would "promote" a card to gold. There was a thing called Henselt Promote where you would put down cards with various abilities then Promote them to gold, barring the opponent from dealing with them. This mechanic was just asking for unintended consequences. And, that is exactly what happened. Dump cards on a board with decent damage over time abilities then Promote them. Congratulations opponent, get the hell out of my round.
Same idea with Immune. Card A might be okay just the way it is designed. Until you have a way to make it immune. An immune card might be fine on it's own until you have a way to interact with and make it stronger. Meanwhile the opponent cannot do anything to it unless they happen to be running and draw very specific cards. To provide examples, Vysogota and Saes. Do you know what happens when Vysogota gets put on a board early in a long round and given immune? Yeah, it's almost always winning the round without a very specific answer. For the same reason the Promote example above had this result.
It's not about whether it's OP right now. It's the fact it has the potential to create real problems. Of equal importance, non-interactive mechanics are not well received (case and point, artifacts and... this thread). They don't fit "strategic card game".
If they need a way to give certain cards protection as a balancing/tuning dial something like armor is a much better idea. It's not all or nothing. Nor is it non-interactive. You can hit a card with armor. It's just harder to remove it. The person playing a card with armor has time to respond to attempts to kill it. There are all sorts of ways to adjust cards with armor, beyond provision or power adjustments. It begs the question of why the hell they even ditched the concept in the first place.
I think it's time I stop playing this game actually. That's 3 out of my last 5 matches having been special cards decks. That's just not fun at all. It's infecting this game and it's toxic.
I don't think I really want to play again until this issue is solved. It's not fun, just annoying.
With Northern Realms I used thunderbolt with some order units, to reduce their chance of being taken off the board. Generally with order units it is convenient to have thunderbolt on the board before playing them. I also like tained ale and bring this in many of my decks. It particularly good against say neckars, and it's a threat when it is on the board. It can destroy a 4 point unit and leave 2 damage left, or it can destroy a 6 point unit.
But that might be due to the way I play, I bring enough locks and destroy cards to take out the most critical opponent units. Tained ale is just a convenient card for that.
And I use bloody flail in my Demavend deck, it's a sometimes great card for a bad deck. Petri's philter is something I might use with Damien De La Tour or Vattier De Rideaux.
I don't mind scorch really. I mind it in the context of special cards decks/unitless decks. All those scorch like cards make that possible, as long as you have to play a card and the opponent does not, then effectively they have 7 scorch cards for monsters, 5 for the rest.
I don't think I really want to play again until this issue is solved. It's not fun, just annoying.
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With Northern Realms I used thunderbolt with some order units, to reduce their chance of being taken off the board. Generally with order units it is convenient to have thunderbolt on the board before playing them. I also like tained ale and bring this in many of my decks. It particularly good against say neckars, and it's a threat when it is on the board. It can destroy a 4 point unit and leave 2 damage left, or it can destroy a 6 point unit.
But that might be due to the way I play, I bring enough locks and destroy cards to take out the most critical opponent units. Tained ale is just a convenient card for that.
And I use bloody flail in my Demavend deck, it's a sometimes great card for a bad deck. Petri's philter is something I might use with Damien De La Tour or Vattier De Rideaux.
I don't mind scorch really. I mind it in the context of special cards decks/unitless decks. All those scorch like cards make that possible, as long as you have to play a card and the opponent does not, then effectively they have 7 scorch cards for monsters, 5 for the rest.
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So, in summary you think artifacts are legitimate for the following reasons....
1. Push order/engine/setup units outside of instant kill range.
2. Push order/engine/setup cards into instant kill range.
The irony is these two legitimate reasons highlight what is wrong with this game. When you run setup/engine/order cards you feel obligated to run preemptive options to prevent them from getting instantly nuked, locked or otherwise disrupted. Otherwise you're probably running so many of them you just don't care when one dies or sneaking one into your deck unexpectedly (the random Ocvist...). On the flip side, you feel obligated to instantly nuke, lock or otherwise disrupt setup/engine/order cards because failing to do so results in getting shit on.
First off, it could easily be argued artifacts should not have to fill these roles because players shouldn't feel obligated to take either approach. Put differently, engines, setups and combos shouldn't snowball a round or blow up a board when they work. If they did not do so there would be no need to instantly disrupt or block them from getting there. In turn removal could be weaker.
Secondly.... There are a lot of ways to solve these particular problems without adding a non-interactive concept like artifacts. Obviously, pushing the game away from such extremes by overhauling cards across the board would remove these issues entirely, thus removing the need to solve them (Homecoming 2.0, bringing Gwent back to it's roots from it's Homecoming, coming to smartphones soon). As mentioned earlier, another option would be something like armor.
Keep in mind, a big reason people play these spell/artifact spam decks is to completely neutralize the removal meta. So all of the above provides incentive to play them. If it wasn't the case I'd bet less players would play them.
I'm getting sick of of these special decks as well. It didn't used to be so bad before when there was an instant loss against such compositions every now and then but now almost every time i fight against a Harald, they use this tactic.
I'm also seeing people saying that they're done with the game because of it and they're going to uninstall it now.
Now normally I disregard these kinds of comments as dramatics. But this time i find myself agreeing with them to an extent.
Card games are about finding combinations of cards, yours and the opponents'. Gwent is even more so, with locks, removals etc.
Now what the Special Decks do is create a sitatuation where you cannot place your own cards, because they get destroyed immediatelly. Nor can you attack the opponent's cards, because the specials are not units so there's nothing to target.
The enemy only places a unit once they know you won't be able to do anything about it because you've got no useful cards left.
I strongly believe that unlike some other things in the game which can be OP special decks actually ARE Toxic to the game, they go against the grain of what a Card Game experience and a Gwent experience is meant to be.
I think it's high time to put an end to special decks once and for all; for example by limiting the amount of special cards you can have in a deck.
I'm also seeing people saying that they're done with the game because of it and they're going to uninstall it now.
Now normally I disregard these kinds of comments as dramatics. But this time i find myself agreeing with them to an extent.
Card games are about finding combinations of cards, yours and the opponents'. Gwent is even more so, with locks, removals etc.
Now what the Special Decks do is create a sitatuation where you cannot place your own cards, because they get destroyed immediatelly. Nor can you attack the opponent's cards, because the specials are not units so there's nothing to target.
The enemy only places a unit once they know you won't be able to do anything about it because you've got no useful cards left.
I strongly believe that unlike some other things in the game which can be OP special decks actually ARE Toxic to the game, they go against the grain of what a Card Game experience and a Gwent experience is meant to be.
I think it's high time to put an end to special decks once and for all; for example by limiting the amount of special cards you can have in a deck.
i love playing against special card decks. usually they lose, but i am a NR player, so maybe less effected than anyone else
Maybe, if you play this game mostly to win. I play this game mostly for fun, and meeting special card decks just isn't fun.
It's not that I don't like to win or don't try it, I do, but that's just part of the fun aspect. Vernon Roche spy card is great against no unit decks I can imagine.
dont worry, they already told in reddit, that they will fix it (see other thread here)
I love too playing whit and against.
NR is the most weak faction against this decks. XD
i also think people HIGHLY exaggerate. i think 1 of 30 is a no unit special card deck.
i sometimes play it when i get frustrated by seeing the 3 in 10 SK deck with the self-damageing-dog, which in my opinion is way more annoying.
So just for fun I created a no unit deck built to use ciri nova. Without the right counters it's pretty infuriating to play against. Anyway I just got done playing against a king demavend engine deck and the result was partly cringy and partly hilarious. The last round he's dropping artifacts, I'm dropping artifacts, his engines have nothing to shoot. It's so silly it feels like this should never have been possible within the game. I just shoot down his cards putting nothing interactible on my side, the only units are immune or ciri lol. The gameplay is just absurd. He is absolutely helpless with his deck. Just watches his cards die and nothing at all to do.
Here's some more feedback for the devs to fix this nonsense.
-Get rid of most immunity in the game. Especially the 3 werewolves in monsters. That just makes this so much easier for the no unit players.
-As I've said before fix artifacts. They vastly help no unit gameplay.
-Why in the world did you create Ciri Nova? That card is built for no unit decks. I recommend changing it lol.
Here's some more feedback for the devs to fix this nonsense.
-Get rid of most immunity in the game. Especially the 3 werewolves in monsters. That just makes this so much easier for the no unit players.
-As I've said before fix artifacts. They vastly help no unit gameplay.
-Why in the world did you create Ciri Nova? That card is built for no unit decks. I recommend changing it lol.
A lot of decks are absolutely helpless against apropiate decks... including "unitless" decks. For "unitless" decks is 99% imposible to win over Gernichora, including Gernichora "unitless" decks...
That deck of the king Demavend would probably win without having any chance to normal ST decks.
Ciri Nova only have sense in "unitless" decks. But now you have a lot of cards to destroy her, or reduce his value (1 point Ciri Nova in the battlefield is not a problem).
I like to see you playing your Ciri Nova deck versus Skellige deck. I am sure that you can win only whit Ciri and inmune dragon.
My guess is that all the cards that reward having fewer cards on the board than the opponent will get some kind of re-work. Like Strykerx said above, on the one hand, there's no way the devs could have wanted this sort of gameplay, but on the other hand, there are cards like Ciri Nova that make it seem inevitable to some degree. Anyway, CDPR is going to be addressing it; let's just hope the cure isn't worse than the disease.
I never said those were the only two units I used.
The point wasn't that the deck is powerful. I'm sure it would lose pretty bad on ladder. The point is how dumb the game feels in those match ups.
When you plays your "unitless" deck whit a good player, if you win you feels very well because is very difficult.