2, 4, and 5.
This is a hard one. Many of the options seem to be connected by tendrils to most of the others. It's hard, for example, for Lifepath choices to have a deeper impact on gameplay without also influencing the way that NPCs perceive my character and/or gating certain options based upon Lifepath.
So, I'd prefer to keep it simple. The 9 options are fine, which actually translates into 27 different potential variations and twists on the path. Plenty. Now, I'd really love to see each one of those open up exclusive avenues through certain quests.
It would be super-cool if V's speech, attitude, maybe even dialogue options, etc. were affected by it. I would love to have a sequence in which I needed to "blend in" with a street gang / corporate office...and my character would have trouble playing that role because they're from the other lifestyle. Dialogue responses could be tricky -- requiring the player to select not only the response they want within a time limit...but have variations of each response that show the struggle the character has trying to talk like a ganger / corpo. That sort of thing.
This is a hard one. Many of the options seem to be connected by tendrils to most of the others. It's hard, for example, for Lifepath choices to have a deeper impact on gameplay without also influencing the way that NPCs perceive my character and/or gating certain options based upon Lifepath.
So, I'd prefer to keep it simple. The 9 options are fine, which actually translates into 27 different potential variations and twists on the path. Plenty. Now, I'd really love to see each one of those open up exclusive avenues through certain quests.
It would be super-cool if V's speech, attitude, maybe even dialogue options, etc. were affected by it. I would love to have a sequence in which I needed to "blend in" with a street gang / corporate office...and my character would have trouble playing that role because they're from the other lifestyle. Dialogue responses could be tricky -- requiring the player to select not only the response they want within a time limit...but have variations of each response that show the struggle the character has trying to talk like a ganger / corpo. That sort of thing.
I am really hoping for all sorts of crazy sexual stuff in the game, but there's no limit to identities IRL and for the devs sake they have to stop somewhere. I really really really do not want any identity politics in the game. The relationship thing in the game should be based on the character having fun, or have it play into the story somehow.
The mods will have their way with other "relationship things" that can be done in the game after release(mod support?), but simple adult themes based on character interaction need to help build your world, add to the story, and/or offer what you want. That should be enough for the initial release.
I say that mainly because there should be so much other crazy political things going on in 2077 that none of the identity politics of right now should ever matter. The characters should be numb to it anyway with how much body manipulation is present in 2077.
Any character/NPC in 2077 can be any gender, age, color, or maybe barely even human. It's all kind of known while never really mattering in the first place. Like you may not know what kind of tech a NPC has in their head and just as much about what is in their pants. You know something is there, but not to what extent. Buuuut does it even matter? So what.
Understood.
I understand this topic is very emotionally charged for some people, but my intention wasn't to call you out for your sexual idetntiy choices in or out of game. I was simply trying to understand why such a box would be necessary, and you've given great examples, so I get it now.
I too would find it pretty bizarre if your past lover (from backstory) appeared in the game and they weren't of the gender (preference) you'd selected for your character.
However, easy way to solve this -- a W2 save simulation-esque system. You're riding with Jackie in his car to a bar, or to another job, and he asks about your past lover. You have a few options: "I don't know, Jack. She's probably dead," a variant for "he," and then "I don't like to talk about them" for people who want it to be randomized.
It doesn't address your furry or trans comments, unfortunately, but I don't think either of those are concerns in The Dark Future. Remember, 2077's world is not our own -- people can literally bodymod themselves to have furry tails, cat ears, and other exotic implants. And you can likely swap gender "parts" at will. I'd think these sorts of things are not only common, but almost expected that you'll see them.
But that's just my 2 cents. I really have no idea how it's going to be handled.
I had assumed that you came frome a genuine place & thus no problem at all.
Have a lot of trust in cdpr to handle it with care. And that there be options to define your sexuell identety -at least the main stuff (homo- / bi-sexuell, evtl. transgender)- for those that need it.
Asking questions will nearly allways be fine with me, but admitedly i do have i problem with people that give a crap about other people. or in this case go with the "don´t ask, don´t tell", want to silence / hide the 800ish million people that are somewhere on the spectrum of lgbtq (10% of population) - as if non of them/us matter.
As for me, i do not mind sharing, i am a fairly vanilla bi-sexuell male. boring. Very easy to include me but for many of my peers this is so not the case. Or does not happen even if it were not difficult to do for a multitude of reasons.
Representation matters - the rarer it is that you got to see yourself in (mainstream) media the more important it becomes. it should be normal, it should be boring and non-consequential... but it is not. and i am am sure (and sad/angry) that it will not be for a long ass time.
But better back to topic: the lifepath in general - don´t wanna get the finger and stare! ^^
1,4,5
idky so many voted for 2 that just seems point less keep a small amount but have them deeper, shit that means less of a character you can be cause your stuck to a small limited amount of choises, idk i'd reither have more choises with a less deeper background so i can create a character that fits me not have a character that everyone one else has.
idky so many voted for 2 that just seems point less keep a small amount but have them deeper, shit that means less of a character you can be cause your stuck to a small limited amount of choises, idk i'd reither have more choises with a less deeper background so i can create a character that fits me not have a character that everyone one else has.
Kidding of course as relates to you personally. However, we should all keep in mind to keep things related to Lifepath specifically. As long as we don't morph into a discussion about real world politics/worldview stuff it's fine. First post that drifts towards real world stuff will attract attention though.
Srsly not being political.
That plays out with your character and you can have whatever you want. It's like the environment is pan AF. Consequences may occur in the game that you may or may not want though. ie: your lover really screws you over because it relates to your lifepath. Still a dystopian landscape, right? I would love to see interesting and surprising relationships with characters of all types and hope there is an organic unfolding of the story that flows well, all relationships included.
I really want to see the relationship of technology and people constantly being explored in new ways more than anything. The line between flesh and tech gets explored in other cyberpunk genre things, but it can really be explored in 2077. Like a Cronenburg metal fetish that everyone is ok with and you get to explore it in other people via relationships. Maybe the same way a person could scan items on themselves we would be able to look at other people during "encounters" and scan/check out parts. That would be so amazing.
And yes I want the same thing. The more unique people can get their characters the better. If that starts with lifepath then it should be important enough to have various/numerous choices that lead off in all sorts of ways. I want to be able to shoot for an end goal...like I want to be a "nomad techie" and maybe be able to get close to it as I play the game.
Last edited:
For me, it's more about practicality. In my dream RPG, sure, I'd have 30 different life path choices, all with heavy story impacts. But in lieu of that, I have other priorities, so I'll settle for a smaller set with hopefully more impact.
I can understand players' desires not to have the game try to (shall we say?) "highlight" a particular sexuality or gender identification -- and I largely agree with that sentiment. The same could be said for any consideration surrounding definition of the player character. Let's go somewhere else as an example:
It's annoying when an RPG automatically assumes that my character is noble and doing things for altruistic reasons. It's annoying when an RPG simply assumes I want to help every NPC I come across. It's annoying when an RPG assumes that I want spikey-er, glowy-er armor as I level up. It's annoying when an RPG funnels me into one combat encounter after another, allowing no other role-playing avenues. Right in line, it is annoying when an RPG assumes that I have this or that sexual preference or desire to engage in romance at all. Like any other aspect of character creation and execution, it should be up to the player to decide. There should be options.
With Lifepath, though, I see no indication of, or reason to believe that, a player character's gender or sexuality plays any part in any of the options. "Ex-lover in town," does not necesitate introducing that NPC as an in-game character.
Each of the other options are open-ended motivations that can work into the dramatic action of the story in organic ways. No reason to believe this one would be any different.
It's annoying when an RPG automatically assumes that my character is noble and doing things for altruistic reasons. It's annoying when an RPG simply assumes I want to help every NPC I come across. It's annoying when an RPG assumes that I want spikey-er, glowy-er armor as I level up. It's annoying when an RPG funnels me into one combat encounter after another, allowing no other role-playing avenues. Right in line, it is annoying when an RPG assumes that I have this or that sexual preference or desire to engage in romance at all. Like any other aspect of character creation and execution, it should be up to the player to decide. There should be options.
With Lifepath, though, I see no indication of, or reason to believe that, a player character's gender or sexuality plays any part in any of the options. "Ex-lover in town," does not necesitate introducing that NPC as an in-game character.
A stupid-simple example. The game introduces that the player character's ex-lover is named "Riley" or "Kelly" or "Payton"...some gender-neutral name. There's a small scene at one point where V talks about a piece of jewelry (like a necklace or charm) that they gave them. The "ex-lover" serves to provide branches in quests, side missions, and NPCs that respond to that Lifepath choice, but the player gets to decide why. A whole slew of gameplay and role-playing because:
a.) I miss them, and now they're in trouble because of me.
b.) I can't believe they've dragged me into this mess!
c.) They're scum for what they did to me, and I want them dead.
Strong motivation to get involved in a string of quests trying to ensure they're safe / get the hell out of dodge / track the psycho down. Because of larger game events, the ex-lover winds up being killed. The player arrives afterwards, finds a few bodies burned beyond recognition, and they find their locket / charm on one of the corpses. So:
a.) This was my fault! It was because of me!
b.) Idiot! What were they thinking!? @#$% it all to &%@#!
c.) Wish I was here to see it. (Puts a round in the corpse.)
A form of resolution for that Lifepath choice following a whole series of experiences that tie the player into the present storyline and NPCs. I have been given freedom to define my interest and motivation through the gameplay...not based on some predetermination of who the "EX-lover" was. All of which, in turn, is based on the Lifepath option I chose.
a.) I miss them, and now they're in trouble because of me.
b.) I can't believe they've dragged me into this mess!
c.) They're scum for what they did to me, and I want them dead.
Strong motivation to get involved in a string of quests trying to ensure they're safe / get the hell out of dodge / track the psycho down. Because of larger game events, the ex-lover winds up being killed. The player arrives afterwards, finds a few bodies burned beyond recognition, and they find their locket / charm on one of the corpses. So:
a.) This was my fault! It was because of me!
b.) Idiot! What were they thinking!? @#$% it all to &%@#!
c.) Wish I was here to see it. (Puts a round in the corpse.)
A form of resolution for that Lifepath choice following a whole series of experiences that tie the player into the present storyline and NPCs. I have been given freedom to define my interest and motivation through the gameplay...not based on some predetermination of who the "EX-lover" was. All of which, in turn, is based on the Lifepath option I chose.
Each of the other options are open-ended motivations that can work into the dramatic action of the story in organic ways. No reason to believe this one would be any different.
the spoiler works because in english you can't assume gender from pronouns, in other languages it could be much more difficult. Anyway, totally agree on the first part.
------------------
Regarding sexual orientation, if devs want to have this kind of topic in some quests, I imagine something like this to avoid making us choose directly:
NPC: "I don't like homosexuals/trans because yada yada yada"
V:
1) I agree
2) I don't agree, but whatever
3) I'm homosexual/trans, any problem? want me to kick your ass?
Or the other way round if devs are brave enough (= not gonna happen):
NPC: I'm homosexual/trans
V:
1) I don't like that
2) I respect that
3) me too!
Hm. Good point.
(A minor challenge, though! As it only requires the writers to do their job twice.
)EDIT:
Or, thinking about that for another 30 seconds, it's not much of an issue.
Early on in the game, a single dialogue option can be selected. Something like:
Select the option, it throws a flag, and the rest of the dialogue will reference the audio files that refer to the right gender / intent. Plus, it wouldn't be that intense. How many scenes will actually need to reference the ex-lover directly?
Select the option, it throws a flag, and the rest of the dialogue will reference the audio files that refer to the right gender / intent. Plus, it wouldn't be that intense. How many scenes will actually need to reference the ex-lover directly?
Last edited:
This is a tough one. I of course want depth in the lifepath system, and the more detail the better. So I picked 1 easily. But the idea of dialogue or even entire missions being gated off just because of my chosen personality doesn't sound so great.
It's hypocritical, because if the lifepath is done well it'll affect these things, but I don't want to miss out on content. I guess it helps the replay value, and I'd be excited to start a second, completely different V. But the game better have some pretty serious range in its story variations if I have to play multiple times in order to get every side-quest.
It's hypocritical, because if the lifepath is done well it'll affect these things, but I don't want to miss out on content. I guess it helps the replay value, and I'd be excited to start a second, completely different V. But the game better have some pretty serious range in its story variations if I have to play multiple times in order to get every side-quest.
Walking the middle ground with stuff like this is very hard. I also think it's virtually impossible to do well. Gate things based upon player choice, and you get a more airtight experience and great pacing...but it necessitates making certain content exclusive. Open things up and it allows for much more freeform play...but choices carry little weight, gamplay and pacing are really loose, and replayability suffers.
Either extreme will work fine, though! Toss the story and narrative and just let the player do whatever they want with the mechanics...and you get Minecraft, Mount and Blade, or Gary's Mod. Buckle in the options and focus on choice / consequence....and you get Gothic, Mass Effect, or Detroit: Become Human.
It's the rare game that walks the middle line as well TW3 did, and that was largely due to Geralt being an established, literary character with clear motivations regardless of the player's intent. Since player character design in CP2077 is much more open, I would err (would have erred?) on the side of gating. That may perhaps turn off a fraction of players that really invest in "100 percenting" games, but I think it would leave everyone feeling as if their playthroughs were very impactful choice / consequence experiences.
This is long game, i personally it sucks if choices what you made at the beginning will follow you entire the game. It could be used to build excitement for first 5 hour or so but for entire game, no thanks.
Do you want us to check all boxes ? Because this is how you make us wanna check all boxes
For me was (2), 5, 8, 9 at least because I would care more about replay value and assuming our char's personality.
Having some exclusive friends / foes / missions / dialogue choices or even alternate endings should be part of the fun in playing a role playing game. They don't need to be numerous, per se, if you have 3x3 options then you have 9 mix of flavors to make the game provide a different approach with different surprises. It's a nice set of choices if we consider replay the game many times... and this doesn't count all the ingame options (or even endings) that are open to every character.
I agree on not worry too much with sexuality things. Some NPCs will express their love / hate for "this" or "that" community, that's part of their personality too, and I'm sure that everyone will meet some pro / anti-something NPCs, may be gender, social status, skin color, cyborg, natural, music preference, and whatnot. Just play the game, consider everything as a playground.
About voiced dialogue, I'm almost sure they'll stick with "she" and "he". Please take my following opinion easy (talk to me, don't shoot) :
I think so because firstly, it takes effort to adapt 2 gender pronouns to voiced dialogue for one language (2 takes, one for "she" one for "he" = 2x audio files). Secondly, I'm aware of how many pronouns should exist according to certain LGBT sources... but I think it's unlikely to happen : this implies that you multiply the amount of work by the number of gender pronouns (not mentioning the translations puzzle outside English countries).
But maybe there will be an option to pick up from "he" or "she" regardless of playing male or female, and I wish to have that option available. But it's up to the devs and this would be (or almost?) the first time I see such an option in a game. Let's say if available, good for everyone. If not then, it's not really surprising. Remember that in real life we don't even need to be a transgender person to be mistaken for men or women : some men are sometimes (or even often) mistaken for women, and women for men too.
For me was (2), 5, 8, 9 at least because I would care more about replay value and assuming our char's personality.
Having some exclusive friends / foes / missions / dialogue choices or even alternate endings should be part of the fun in playing a role playing game. They don't need to be numerous, per se, if you have 3x3 options then you have 9 mix of flavors to make the game provide a different approach with different surprises. It's a nice set of choices if we consider replay the game many times... and this doesn't count all the ingame options (or even endings) that are open to every character.
I agree on not worry too much with sexuality things. Some NPCs will express their love / hate for "this" or "that" community, that's part of their personality too, and I'm sure that everyone will meet some pro / anti-something NPCs, may be gender, social status, skin color, cyborg, natural, music preference, and whatnot. Just play the game, consider everything as a playground.
About voiced dialogue, I'm almost sure they'll stick with "she" and "he". Please take my following opinion easy (talk to me, don't shoot) :
I think so because firstly, it takes effort to adapt 2 gender pronouns to voiced dialogue for one language (2 takes, one for "she" one for "he" = 2x audio files). Secondly, I'm aware of how many pronouns should exist according to certain LGBT sources... but I think it's unlikely to happen : this implies that you multiply the amount of work by the number of gender pronouns (not mentioning the translations puzzle outside English countries).
But maybe there will be an option to pick up from "he" or "she" regardless of playing male or female, and I wish to have that option available. But it's up to the devs and this would be (or almost?) the first time I see such an option in a game. Let's say if available, good for everyone. If not then, it's not really surprising. Remember that in real life we don't even need to be a transgender person to be mistaken for men or women : some men are sometimes (or even often) mistaken for women, and women for men too.
I think it would be the easiest to pull off. The only challenge, and it would be small, would be to record a cluster of dialogue using both he or she. And, as I stated above, how many times would it really be necessary to directly refer to the ex-lover in a scene? It's truly no biggie in terms of development.
Besides, based on the choices that we see in the demo, I'd pick "unfinished business", anyway.
I chose 2,5,9.
Regarding option 4; I don't want lifepath to change the characters dialog in regards to personality, as in, the manner of speech.
The reason is that, I don't want lifepath to 'mask' some choices so I have no idea of the effect it will have when I create the character in the beginning. In other words, take choice away from me since I have no idea of what I am choosing. (And I would have to play the game through a second time to realize the difference)
As long as ilifepath affects only things unrelated to characters personality, I am fine with it. For example, make V hate corps or have some sort of relationship with an NPC etc. But not change V's manner of speech because of it.
I sincerely doubt lifepath would affect V that much, but I just wanted to voice out my concern.
Regarding option 4; I don't want lifepath to change the characters dialog in regards to personality, as in, the manner of speech.
The reason is that, I don't want lifepath to 'mask' some choices so I have no idea of the effect it will have when I create the character in the beginning. In other words, take choice away from me since I have no idea of what I am choosing. (And I would have to play the game through a second time to realize the difference)
As long as ilifepath affects only things unrelated to characters personality, I am fine with it. For example, make V hate corps or have some sort of relationship with an NPC etc. But not change V's manner of speech because of it.
I sincerely doubt lifepath would affect V that much, but I just wanted to voice out my concern.
Yeah lifepath should affect the world we live and the people we interact with. Nothing should be gated but there should be certain quests or interaction you get from your certain life path.
For this it shouldn't be as simple as it was in the demo but it can't be as complicated as it was in the tabletop. It was to be in the middle not to much not little.
It should direct how the story starts for you maybe there are four different ways to start the story.
One could be a car chase another could be a fight on top of a building or you're character could be eating.
Its all up to your choices. Maybe they get personality traits, flaws from this lifepath.
Maybe they drowned as a kid so they never learnt how to swim. So when they get into water thats to deep they can die.
For this it shouldn't be as simple as it was in the demo but it can't be as complicated as it was in the tabletop. It was to be in the middle not to much not little.
It should direct how the story starts for you maybe there are four different ways to start the story.
One could be a car chase another could be a fight on top of a building or you're character could be eating.
Its all up to your choices. Maybe they get personality traits, flaws from this lifepath.
Maybe they drowned as a kid so they never learnt how to swim. So when they get into water thats to deep they can die.