Your example, I would be cool with. However, the majority of people wanting multiplayer seem to be leaning towards wanting competitive PvP, not co-op, unfortunately.
I hope it comes with pvp and co-op.I want to buy cyberpunk hoping it comes with MP further when the game realeases
competitive pvp just breeds toxicity and brings out the immature whiny kids like flies 2077 does not need that period. if there any pvp at all should be restricted to like arenas or gyms like where the guy was boxing with the droid in trailer. and if there pvp should have an extra mirrored weapon load out specifically for pvp with altered stats for them that way any balaning for pvp doesn't affect the pve gameplay. the pve experience has been ruined many times in games with both becasue someone complains that one of best pve weapons was too powerful in pvp just because they hadnt gotten it yet
interesting theory but I still want pvp it in free mode... in what matters weapons if some will need to be buffd or nerfd that's devs choice.
Post automatically merged:
also this idea just crossed my mind... players can't identify other players in map/minimap... or any other way...they can scan to see the profile but he will never know in some certain way... wich makes them have to sort it out iff it is a player or not...in some sort of way..
and much more dificult to track other players. makes us watch our backs
This is one of the reasons this thread was made. I stay away from MPs because of the forced dumb that comes from the players. Most of the time it isn't even because of the game itself...it's the people who ruin the experience.
Whether they are kids, or of any other age, there is always this "turned off" atmosphere because of most people playing MPs. I really want a place/open world game to be insanely serious about missions and insanely not so serious when it comes to just hanging out with friends when "living" in the city.
And I really really want 2077MP to be different, because I want an MP that I love to play. There is an opportunity for this MP to be amazingly immersive. The "toxic" types of players are going to be there, but it's like they are welcome because Night City will be so diverse. Although, I think if people are going to be that way, they will be "dealt" with by people who may not want that in their city/bar/community...
Almost like a living social experience because of the team building and intimate relationships that could occur.
With so many people (at very least, myself) becoming completely bored with social media, there is a void that can be filled by the immersion this game could provide.
I don't know if CDPR understands what kind of amazing opportunity they have with a 2077MP. If done right, then it could be an absolute game changer. If they focus on a new way of socializing through the world of Cyberpunk then it will be something that sticks around for a while.
I am not convinced most people that are for MP want it to be PVP. Maybe there is a vocal group in these forum advocating for MP PVP but I hugely doubt they are anywhere near close to a majority.
I would say I think the coop pve MP fits much more nicely into the narrative driven aspect of this game and thus is the more wanted option overall.
I just don't feel this game is a PVP based game and that the devs goal of a narrative driven story fits well with pvp unless they add some "game mode" so people can have fortenite battle royal matches...I sure as hell don't see how PVP can bring anything but grief if they try and stick it in the main game where people are trying to do some coop mp, God forbid they try to make this a single player game that requires you to be "online" so you can be meta content for the griefer crowd...
I would say I think the coop pve MP fits much more nicely into the narrative driven aspect of this game and thus is the more wanted option overall.
I just don't feel this game is a PVP based game and that the devs goal of a narrative driven story fits well with pvp unless they add some "game mode" so people can have fortenite battle royal matches...I sure as hell don't see how PVP can bring anything but grief if they try and stick it in the main game where people are trying to do some coop mp, God forbid they try to make this a single player game that requires you to be "online" so you can be meta content for the griefer crowd...
We see how well that works in gta5 the players that take care of the toxic ones wind up turning just as bad and the number of people that grief other players just to do it grows constantly
Post automatically merged:
The same can be said about warframe there is a small group very vocal about wanting pvp to be worked over and refreshed. but they are in minority they just very vocal about it
I totally agree, but I also understand a PvP should be an option. For such things like personal battles, bounty hunting, gang territory takeovers, barfights, minigames, or something to that extent. Those situations should tie into the story somehow though. I hope CDPR can set aside what has been "done to death" with most other PvP games, like they are approaching it from a totally new vantage point instead of looking at what has already been done. {Ex: teams spawn into an environment, then they have to fight for items and superiority, it's lame and overdone.}
It's even hard for me to envision what this would look like though. (Therefore, thread.)
Something along the lines of: Life in NC can be lived out as a fully autonomous player, things/jobs/leisure are presented to you (perhaps by fixers, or from your own interest), but there is a inner mechanic to the world that will set you up with those things in opposition to other players. Ultimately though, it's just business as usual within NC, things just play out and the players decide if they want to fight their way around, or use alternative measures.
These "fights" could be a complicated set up where there is a lot of time to prepare, or build a team, akin to story structures...or they may just be because you looked at someone the wrong way in a bar...or a street fight because you have shiny objects that other players decided they want, right then and there.
If players levels/stats can be hidden from others, then it would make the environment more interesting because no one would know if they could actually win certain fights. It would stand as an incentive to "not mess with the wrong people" unless you decided to take that risk. That would also allow "street cred" to be a "true to life" trait, where someone who looks like a soft target will end up getting taken advantage of (or a player may want to look like a soft target to "bait" other players). On the flip side of that, a person could look like a badass, so that players know, instinctively, not to mess with them.
Certain gear/tattoos/traits could also indicate who people want to help, or "side with", they could also indicate who your enemies may be. If you see a fight break out, you can decide if you want to get involved or not. If the person getting beat up has matching gang indicators it would behoove you to help. That could also help to find friends in the game.
If I was getting my ass kicked because I have a few cool items that others want, and outta nowhere I have strangers helping me out...then I would be grateful as hell. I keep my items, and because of usual NC situations, I may walk away with possible new teammates/frens. This would also act as an incentive to set up "battle buddies", or to not go certain places on your own. It really would be up to the player if they wanted to only take care of themselves, or not. There would be outcomes and consequences to those choices though. Some outcomes could be becoming more well-known around the city/making friends...thus providing some social interactivity through story driven interactions.
This social and environmental balance is probably what CDPR is dealing with right now. I imagine they are probably trying to figure out a way to tie together the world-set with how players are going to interact as one of the base mechanics, how to not make it repetitive and boring, while still tying it to an ongoing story.
Post automatically merged:
It is good to make mention of this because these situations are like predictable pitfalls for MPs. CDPR has to figure out how to incentivize gameplay without it getting cheesy. They still have a lot of time, hopefully they use it well.
I haven't played GTA5 because I can see how easily that would happen. It looks as if it got cheesy...
I do not want it to happen with 2077MP. (Therefore, how can we help?)
I know I am going to be putting a lot of time into the upcoming 2077 release and I do not want my interest in ongoing Cyberpunk releases to get "watered down" by the idiots expecting Fartnite 2077.
Last edited:
So in essence or to recap some fear MP might turn into what some call a sh*tfest.
Those concerns are not out of this world. One could argue long about this but I want to keep it short. In essence what I consider somewhat ideal for MP is either the ARMA or online RP community approach where players police themselves (even with police depending on the setting), or in other words an adapted GTA (Online) approach without the downsides players experience in there.
What do I mean with GTA approach? I mostly mean the positive aspects that you can roam a relatively large world with friends or strangers, and can do various activities. You can enjoy a large world and interact with it. Compared to GTA I assume such activites in the CP world or map would feel even more immersive given the intenser cityscape and more interiors. Bonus points if you can buy property and live in it, perhaps customize to some extend. A bit like a moderately simulated second life for those who want it.
But GTA has downsides. Not counting cheaters you can just be attacked by anyone at any time in theory, unless you enable passive mode. While a certain danger should exist, there can be a fine line between witnessing such dangers and that turning into "griefing" or it being "too much". If one could make randomly or constantly attacking strangers more risky for the attacker and for example not have NPC police respond and serve as simple meatshields, then that would be downscaled and people would perceive less "toxicity".
Alternatively, offering privately run communities (servers) where people can police their servers is another helpful step.
I mostly hope that MP will aim roughly at a GTA or ARMA RPG approach where players can enjoy an open world, opposed to having it turn into certain modes or "Counter Strike" on smaller maps where teams fight each other. Having that as addition? Sure. Having just that? Meh.
Those concerns are not out of this world. One could argue long about this but I want to keep it short. In essence what I consider somewhat ideal for MP is either the ARMA or online RP community approach where players police themselves (even with police depending on the setting), or in other words an adapted GTA (Online) approach without the downsides players experience in there.
What do I mean with GTA approach? I mostly mean the positive aspects that you can roam a relatively large world with friends or strangers, and can do various activities. You can enjoy a large world and interact with it. Compared to GTA I assume such activites in the CP world or map would feel even more immersive given the intenser cityscape and more interiors. Bonus points if you can buy property and live in it, perhaps customize to some extend. A bit like a moderately simulated second life for those who want it.
But GTA has downsides. Not counting cheaters you can just be attacked by anyone at any time in theory, unless you enable passive mode. While a certain danger should exist, there can be a fine line between witnessing such dangers and that turning into "griefing" or it being "too much". If one could make randomly or constantly attacking strangers more risky for the attacker and for example not have NPC police respond and serve as simple meatshields, then that would be downscaled and people would perceive less "toxicity".
Alternatively, offering privately run communities (servers) where people can police their servers is another helpful step.
I mostly hope that MP will aim roughly at a GTA or ARMA RPG approach where players can enjoy an open world, opposed to having it turn into certain modes or "Counter Strike" on smaller maps where teams fight each other. Having that as addition? Sure. Having just that? Meh.
When people say multiplayer breeds toxic behavior, they forget that it also breeds creativity...in ways to be toxic. Take for example GTA Online or Red Dead Redemption 2 Online, two games where there are supposed to be safeguards to protect players that don't want to partake in PvP, but griefers continually find new ways to harass other players for no reason other than because they can. They don't get much if any money or loot, or anything of any real value for killing another player, but do it anyway because in their mind griefing another player who was minding their own business is the purest form of those two games and it's their right to play that way. That attitude also explains why they're also the most vocal against things like private lobbies for people who don't want to participate in PvP, as apparently, it's no fun to be stuck in a lobby where everyone wants to kill each other and there's no one who doesn't to prey upon.
Another even better example of how multiplayer breeds creative toxicity is No Man's Sky. The game had finally included a working multiplayer that was pretty much co-op based as ship to ship combat wasn't really good enough to be a viable thing and PvP with the multitools wasn't very satisfying, so you figured griefer behavior wouldn't be too much of a problem in the game, right?
Wrong! Some enterprising jerks figured out that if they couldn't go around with friends playing space pirates and collectively griefing individual travelers as they had planned before reality crushed those dreams, they could at least visit other player bases in other players games and dismantle their bases down to nothing, reducing all that player's hard work to nothing.
I can only imagine what innovative ways some of the more toxic minded PvP types would find in order to circumvent any attempts CDPR would try to impose to stop griefer players from harassing others in a shared multiplayer world. The only way to make sure toxic players don't grief other players not interested in PvP is to give up on the utopian notion that players will show restraint and limit themselves in the ways and amount that they go after other players in a shared world. This cannot happen, PvP must be kept in its own little sectioned off bubble where anyone entering is there solely for PvP and not PvE.
Another even better example of how multiplayer breeds creative toxicity is No Man's Sky. The game had finally included a working multiplayer that was pretty much co-op based as ship to ship combat wasn't really good enough to be a viable thing and PvP with the multitools wasn't very satisfying, so you figured griefer behavior wouldn't be too much of a problem in the game, right?
Wrong! Some enterprising jerks figured out that if they couldn't go around with friends playing space pirates and collectively griefing individual travelers as they had planned before reality crushed those dreams, they could at least visit other player bases in other players games and dismantle their bases down to nothing, reducing all that player's hard work to nothing.
I can only imagine what innovative ways some of the more toxic minded PvP types would find in order to circumvent any attempts CDPR would try to impose to stop griefer players from harassing others in a shared multiplayer world. The only way to make sure toxic players don't grief other players not interested in PvP is to give up on the utopian notion that players will show restraint and limit themselves in the ways and amount that they go after other players in a shared world. This cannot happen, PvP must be kept in its own little sectioned off bubble where anyone entering is there solely for PvP and not PvE.
The point is some people make it their mission to annoy other players. In RL they'd earn a punch in the nose or a stiff jail sentence but in most games you can't do a damn thing to stop them. I don't buy games to amuse other people, I buy them to amuse myself.
With the right safeguards you can prevent "griefer's paradise" or heavily make it unfeasible.
While those are aspects to consider I do not necessarily see them as reason to not even touch MP with a ten foot pole. Many game modes online work well if need be tune the mechanics that way and / or let players police themselves.
You won't or can't go around doing damage to others all the time if you have actual punishments such as losing money, gear, being hunted down, being pit in jail for a while, etc.
If it's any sort of free form open world type of thing like in GTA or comparable games there should be risks and danger from other players. But it shouldn't end in 12 year olds flying around in OP bikes nuking everything for no reason and no reliable way to stop that in a timely manner, to give a counter example.
That actually happened in GTA last week, to be precise.
While those are aspects to consider I do not necessarily see them as reason to not even touch MP with a ten foot pole. Many game modes online work well if need be tune the mechanics that way and / or let players police themselves.
You won't or can't go around doing damage to others all the time if you have actual punishments such as losing money, gear, being hunted down, being pit in jail for a while, etc.
If it's any sort of free form open world type of thing like in GTA or comparable games there should be risks and danger from other players. But it shouldn't end in 12 year olds flying around in OP bikes nuking everything for no reason and no reliable way to stop that in a timely manner, to give a counter example.
That actually happened in GTA last week, to be precise.
The whole GTA thing is a prime example of what cdpr should not do IMO. I want to play by myself offline or in some form of coop MP either via private server or lan or private online group OR if need be in some coop only server where there is no pvp period.
I want my pvp to be separate from the main game so then I can choose to participate or not with the usual hubrara that games with pvp in open world have. I don't care about the "safeguards"..... they invariable never work well and end up in a divided community where it's "carebears vs "griefers" both in game and in the forums.
@Danyel_Longbow
Well, in the end that's YOUR subjective preference, but not everyone might agree with it.
My main point is that you can make an online environment shared by many players (who may be strangers to each other) work - several ways lead to Rome. It's proven to work, too, at the latest if players themselves can run dedicated servers and run their own communities with their own rules. Look at all the Armed Assault RPG or G-Mod communities. Or even private GTA (RP) communities, as another example where we use GTA 's technical platform, the game itself.
If official servers or different game modes (PVE, COOP, PVP, whatever) can't offer it, private player communities and servers can. Same with DayZ as yet another example.
If people want it to work, it works. The devs just need to provide the appropriate framework, foundations or possibilities. And since some dislike the mere mention of "GTA": Yes, even GTA works. Look at the private servers there, policed by the community or respective server owners and staff.
Well, in the end that's YOUR subjective preference, but not everyone might agree with it.
My main point is that you can make an online environment shared by many players (who may be strangers to each other) work - several ways lead to Rome. It's proven to work, too, at the latest if players themselves can run dedicated servers and run their own communities with their own rules. Look at all the Armed Assault RPG or G-Mod communities. Or even private GTA (RP) communities, as another example where we use GTA 's technical platform, the game itself.
If official servers or different game modes (PVE, COOP, PVP, whatever) can't offer it, private player communities and servers can. Same with DayZ as yet another example.
If people want it to work, it works. The devs just need to provide the appropriate framework, foundations or possibilities. And since some dislike the mere mention of "GTA": Yes, even GTA works. Look at the private servers there, policed by the community or respective server owners and staff.
I seriously doubt there will be "official" servers. CDPR isn't interested (to my knowledge) in making MMOs.
Who's going to pay for them? You don't really expect CDPR to provide free servers do you?
I'd guess it'll be like many games where you can set yourself to act as a "host".
Please don't have PVP, just PVE is enough, PVP will ruin this game, too many hackers.
Bad wording I guess. I didn't mean it in an MMORPG kind of way where you join a server maintained by the devs, I mean we don't have to expect a classic MMO(RPG) in the first place with MP. With "official" I mean something perhaps automatically generated via the game like a session that you cannot really modify, and of course any sort of official "hard set" game mode.
Perhaps to get mentally away from the word "official server", what I mean or hope for in the end is that if you can run your own servers continously and modify them with scripts and mods, then you can probably have customizable communities and cater to different needs. For example standard DayZ was the Wild West and still likely is. Someone you run across could just decide to help you or shoot at you, or get your trust and shoot you when you least suspect it. Shoot or kill on sight. Ironically here some could label that as griefing, toxic, etc although it's part of the game design and actually intended (not that I want to compare a survival game to potential CP77 MP, but anything has a place somewhere).
Yet thanks to dedicated servers and whatnot (next to "official" ones you can't really modify) you have all kinds of communities including those who focus on RP or an immersive experience, with tweaked KOS rules. You can still technically shoot or slash anyone but if you don't do it right you can be excluded from the community. Not to mention whitelisting, dictating who can play in the first place and under what conditions or requirements.
Long story short, big potential if players can run their own customizable servers and communities. Couple sufficient modding, enough players that can join a server, the assumption you could roam most or all parts of Night City you also see in the SP game in MP and custom servers and you have vibrant online communities. A bit like in Armed Assault life servers.
Will we get this? I have no friggin clue and when in doubt, assume not, but it would be great. And to anyone having concerns about this, I've seen enough of those communities and they work - players police themselves both from an in-game standpoint as they usually have police and whatnot, and an out-of-game standpoint via community rules and preventing certain scenarios or people doing too much questionable stuff.
A "hacker" can grief or annoy you either way. If they can't physically attack you due to lack of combat mechanics, they can perhaps teleport you into the ground or air, kill you via commands or exploits of those, teleport enemies to you, drop a vehicle on your head or any other combination if that would somehow be possible.
LOL, I said the hack is cheating.
Yes? But a cheater can kill or annoy you even if there are no direct PVP mechanics. That is what I mean in reply to your original message.